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Author Topic: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer  (Read 36389 times)

eronald

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2014, 06:54:16 pm »

You know this and so does everyone else.

The best camera is the one you have when something amazing is in front of the lens.

The rest really doesn't matter.

IMO

BC

+1

e.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2014, 07:12:04 pm »

For instance, the Nikon 58mm f1.4 is ridiculously expensive - but the optical perfomance is poor.
I looked at one thing and one thing only - optical quality.

It is kind of funny you would select the D810 and reject a lens that is IMHO one of the most compelling reasons to use the Nikon system for portrait photography. ;)

Other cult lenses such as the Canon 50mm f1.2 L measure even much worse but this doesn't change the fact that they deliver a look to die for.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 07:41:42 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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John Koerner

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2014, 07:37:31 pm »

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. The vendors will hopefully listen. An interesting fact is that for years Canon told us 35mm didn't "need" hi high pixel counts. And then the D800 became a bestseller.
Edmund

If we're going to measure the success of a camera based on "sales," which Canon DSLR are you saying the D800 has "outsold" to be come "the best."

From all available data, if sales # = success, the both the Canon 7D and Canon 5-series are both, by far, more successful than the Nikon 8-series.

So you need to change your verbiage from "best" seller to "average" seller ...

Jack
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2014, 07:47:47 pm »

From all available data, if sales # = success, the both the Canon 7D and Canon 5-series are both, by far, more successful than the Nikon 8-series.

Care to share some links showing the sales figures of the D800+D800E+D810 vs 5DMkIII?

I am not saying you are right or wrong, but I have never seen these data anywhere myself, so I would like to understand what you base your comment on.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 07:52:15 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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eronald

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2014, 08:16:08 pm »

Jack, there is a misunderstanding here. "Bestseller" is a technical word in the publishing industry.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestseller

Edmund.

If we're going to measure the success of a camera based on "sales," which Canon DSLR are you saying the D800 has "outsold" to be come "the best."

From all available data, if sales # = success, the both the Canon 7D and Canon 5-series are both, by far, more successful than the Nikon 8-series.

So you need to change your verbiage from "best" seller to "average" seller ...

Jack
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 08:18:39 pm by eronald »
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Schewe

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2014, 11:06:40 pm »

OK... explain then what your MF (digital) experience has been as to have D810 preferred against... What was the actual comparison and under what circumstances? ...I am asking you right from the begging....

For me it wasn't an either or situation, it was an "and" situation. I've been shooting for years with Canon...sadly, Canon has been lagging so I (and a few friends like Seth Resnick) are jumping ship from Canon to Nikon. I just got a Nikon D810 and a few lenses (while I sell off my Canons). I'll be using it for a 2 week photo trip through the SW.

But, I'll also be taking my P1 645 camera and my IQ 180 camera as well.

So, I'll let you know about a head to head comparison after I get back. But here's what I've already learned:

The D810 camera body is far faster to work with than the P1 645. For static shots, that's not a big deal but hand held, it will make a difference.

The D810 is superior in high ISO situations, hands down.

36 MP vs 80 MP is not going to matter too much except for the most demanding large print output...

The range of potential lenses for the D810 vastly outnumbers the lenses for the P1 645 and cost a lot less.

So, I'll test the two cameras and see what I think. I'll be selling my Canons (I was depressed that Canon didn't announce anything at Photokina). Depending on the results of this trip, I may be selling my P1 stuff (also depressed not to hear of P1 on their new camera). The one advantage the IQ 180 still has is the ability to mount the back on a tech/view camera...which I still see as important in the studio.

I think this thread is just fine here in this forum (assuming people behave themselves) because this issue is facing MFDBs these days. The OP though new has handled himself pretty well in the face of less than optimal behavior from some parties.
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MichaelEzra

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2014, 11:59:55 pm »

You know this and so does everyone else.

The best camera is the one you have when something amazing is in front of the lens.

The rest really doesn't matter.

IMO

BC

++1!
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Garry Sarre

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2014, 12:18:47 am »

Hi Eddie/forum.

Your experience sounds similar to mine. Coming from Hasselblad film days, moving into Dslr. Then missing MF. Followed by some tossing and turning about whether to bite the bullet and get back into it.

For a commercial/advertising type photographer, there is no question that MF is the way to go. However, being portrait photographers, as we both are, the reasonings are more esoteric.

The reasoning involving whether the company would have profits sufficient to sustain ongoing R&D is important but... R & D of what: cheaper manufacturing methods? More attractive consumer gimmickry?

R&D with companies is to improve one thing. The bottom line. And quite justifiably so. So when considering that question, I went more for the company's track record.

As far as I know, I am the only portrait photographer in my city using medium format, so if you go by the quantity of people crowding the nicanon stands as compared tho the Hasselblad one, then I am the foolish one.

Then again, my professional satisfaction comes from the craft itself, not the number of customers I get through the door. I am certainly not saying that this is the case with you Eddie as you appear to be a long time pro, and I am not saying that, trying to be elitist. I just don't like having a crazy studio with lots of staff dealing with lots of people causing lots of problems. I prefer slower and better.

From purely a portrait viewpoint, Practically speaking, what did I miss about shooting with the Medium Format (originally film)?

1/ Not being able to see subtle expression changes through the viewfinder. Nowadays, this is directly responsible for me getting the shot in 3 on the Blad as opposed to 10 on a dslr.

I discounted the new Blad H5D50-CMOS because of it's smaller sensor/viewfinder image size. The CCD version of the 50 being bigger and more viewable. Dslr is such a disappointment compared to the Blad when looking through the viewfinder.

2/ The overall 'real' detail that inherently comes from capturing more information.

I want to be able to look into someone's eyes in a portrait print and see real imagery, not software pixel filling.

3/ Of course, the lovely Bokeh has to be experienced, as you have yourself and that most of us love.

My choice to switch back to MF from dslr has probably made zero difference to my bottom line. The purchase of a H5D 50 and lenses will keep me having to work longer to pay for it, as well. So has the sacrifice been worth it?

Improvements for me, over DSLR.

I now get almost all my critically focused, wide aperture shots in focus. True focus helps with super critical ones.

I can crop and not look like a crop as much.

Huge amounts of 16 bit chunks of data to hold all the tones I want, even under heavy manipulation. Typically 270mb 16 bit tiffs. Yummy.

Yes, and it is nice for customers questioning me on the camera, and not saying that they have the next model after mine. I even ham it up by saying, 'There's six of 'em on the moon and one in orbit'.  :)

But, the decision that I had made the 'right' decision for me was confirmed when I had a shoot yesterday. I realised that over the last several shoots that whenever I had the luxury of a bit more time and wanted to come up with the best image, with the side benefit of also giving me the most personal satisfaction, which camera do I reach for.... That turned out to be 90% of my shoots! including web corporate headshots.

One unexpected side benefit has been, my sex life has improved. My wife finds me more 'hunky' from my improved shoulder and bicep tone...from lifting extra kilos of camera every which way, every day.

I'm sure you will turn out great imagery no matter what, so good luck to you Eddie.




« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 12:23:10 am by Garry Sarre »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2014, 12:54:43 am »

Improvements for me, over DSLR.

What DSLR were you using before switching to the Hassy?

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 08:14:03 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Garry Sarre

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2014, 02:34:06 am »

Bernard...And still do use. Canon 5D. Original Mark 1:) I'm not usually a gear freak.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2014, 03:02:37 am »

Hi,

Thanks for sharing!

Best regards
Erik


For me it wasn't an either or situation, it was an "and" situation. I've been shooting for years with Canon...sadly, Canon has been lagging so I (and a few friends like Seth Resnick) are jumping ship from Canon to Nikon. I just got a Nikon D810 and a few lenses (while I sell off my Canons). I'll be using it for a 2 week photo trip through the SW.

But, I'll also be taking my P1 645 camera and my IQ 180 camera as well.

So, I'll let you know about a head to head comparison after I get back. But here's what I've already learned:

The D810 camera body is far faster to work with than the P1 645. For static shots, that's not a big deal but hand held, it will make a difference.

The D810 is superior in high ISO situations, hands down.

36 MP vs 80 MP is not going to matter too much except for the most demanding large print output...

The range of potential lenses for the D810 vastly outnumbers the lenses for the P1 645 and cost a lot less.

So, I'll test the two cameras and see what I think. I'll be selling my Canons (I was depressed that Canon didn't announce anything at Photokina). Depending on the results of this trip, I may be selling my P1 stuff (also depressed not to hear of P1 on their new camera). The one advantage the IQ 180 still has is the ability to mount the back on a tech/view camera...which I still see as important in the studio.

I think this thread is just fine here in this forum (assuming people behave themselves) because this issue is facing MFDBs these days. The OP though new has handled himself pretty well in the face of less than optimal behavior from some parties.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2014, 03:04:32 am »

Bernard...And still do use. Canon 5D. Original Mark 1:) I'm not usually a gear freak.

You like proven solutions.

Cheers,
Bernard

Eddie van der Walt

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2014, 04:11:23 am »

Quote
If you're primary fear was financial stability of the manufacturer then you don't really need to wonder. The annual reports and financial disclosures of the major medium format vendors are fully public information.

Phase One for instance is up year-over-year for every year since 2008 (when the financial crises hurt nearly every global company). Increased revenue, increased profit, and increased spending on r+d.

Now if the d810 is a better camera for what you need/want that's one thing; there is no right or wrong answer to that question. But if you're worried about financial stability then some of the players in medium format can provide you very strong assurance of that.

Most interesting of all to me is to compare phase ones growth to the annual reports and industry-group reports from/on canon and nikon regarding their sales of mid and high-end dSLRs.

Hi Doug,

Yes, some of this discussion has drifted away from my original point, but I am very interested in what you said above.

And yes, R&D spending and financial stability has been my major concerns.

I am absolutely sure that some players will remain in the market - but to me, it really feels like this is a market in need of some rationalisation. I think you are right that Phase One is doing very well. But I could well see one or more of Pentax, Hasselblad or Leica falling out.

Also, pure share price and revenue are not particularly good indicators of the health of the MF market - these companies often have industrial imaging arms too, so the growth may be coming from there. And if they are not making money in one part of the business, and they are public owned, it is only a matter of time before they lob that part off.

And this is simply not something I would like to figure in an equation that I don't control and that runs 15 years forward.

I mentioned in my post that I went off to gain experience in financial journalism - what I did not say is that I am a financial journalist. I have been unable to find company reports (so far) for Phase One, and I know Hasselblad is privately owned, so there is no public records of their earnings. But if you have seen any articles that might enligthen me, that would be really helpful.

I refer back to my earlier reply which had a Leica exec putting the size of the MF market GLOBALLY at 6,000 units a year. Now that, to my mind, is tiny. I'd imagine Nikon sells 6,000 units a week easily. And if they outgun MF research by that much, then lens and sensor tech - physics notwithstanding - will match or overtake.

So while I seem to have offended some who thought I am making the point that a D810 is somehow better than a H5D, that was absolutely not my intent - I love MF, I would have loved to shoot MF on Monday when the camera arrives.

But to me, there was a financial gamble in terms of firm stability in my suppliers which lies beyond my control - and that is not something I much care for when making a long-term commitment when starting a new business.
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2014, 04:24:11 am »

I am puzzled by the reliance on financial stability.
Seven years ago, less time than you want the company yo choose to be stable into an uncertain future, few would have given Leica much chance of survival in any meaningful way. I understand at the Photokina they had a hall just for themselves.
Expecting support in fifteen years time for a complex electronic product which is still developing/evolving/refreshing from any company is unrealistic. I doubt the spares inventory is there anywhere, Leica included as we know of M8 LCD problems, to support products that far down the line.
Nikon is more vulnerable than most, despite having the 8 series which in global terms is selling tiny volumes, they are buying into other technologies as unlike Canon they are not currently as diversified.
The thought that any published financial results are presenting an accurate and unbiased report on the company concerned is fanciful. We argue enough about "facts" as presented by DxO mark for example without adding financial analysis to the forum.

IMHO camera, and lens, choice should be based on what you see, and what you feel, for the result and the shooting process, I'm in the Cooter camp  ;D


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torger

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2014, 06:18:52 am »

From all IQ debates I have seen here I think a general conclusion is that landscape photographers care more about raw technical performance (DxOMark style), and portrait photographers more about subtle subjective things like lens look and skin tone and texture. This is logical when looking at the differences in subjects and post-processing workflow.

MF pros shoot portraits foremost where MF still has a strong position. With 645z MF landscape is richer though. One of the H4Ds I have been looking at is sold by a pro landscape photographer which has switched to 645z. In the blog the weather sealing and huge DR was emphasised features compared to the old CCD Hasselblad.
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torger

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2014, 06:30:17 am »

I think the image quality difference is as big one way as the handling difference the other way :)

BTW what does quite sure mean?

Edmund

"Quite sure" is a humble variant of "sure", showing a seed of doubt. I like to do that in discussions, as I am rarely 100 percent sure of things.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2014, 07:13:35 am »

Hi,

Which blog do you refer to?

Regarding the 645Z, I would guess it is a very good camera, with some doubts regarding lenses.

Best regards
Erik

From all IQ debates I have seen here I think a general conclusion is that landscape photographers care more about raw technical performance (DxOMark style), and portrait photographers more about subtle subjective things like lens look and skin tone and texture. This is logical when looking at the differences in subjects and post-processing workflow.

MF pros shoot portraits foremost where MF still has a strong position. With 645z MF landscape is richer though. One of the H4Ds I have been looking at is sold by a pro landscape photographer which has switched to 645z. In the blog the weather sealing and huge DR was emphasised features compared to the old CCD Hasselblad.
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kers

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2014, 07:39:20 am »

Ok, I have to say, I dismissed the Sigma lenses out of hand.
I have worked with other models professionally over a number of years, but have been sorely let down.
This 50 f1.4 Art was not on my radar though, and I want to thank the community for bringing it to my attention.
I am going to seriously investigate it and perhaps request returning the 50mm Nikon in favour of it.

Well, what i said about the Sigma Art vs Nikon : i have had the Nikon 1.4 then i liked better the 1.8 ( faster autofocus and at 1.8 ) and and now have the Sigma.. al lot better again.  so it is my own experience.
But the 'numbers ' on the web also agree on that. Nikon just did not make a good 1.4...
The 58mm is soft but has a beautiful bokeh and very good coatings... a special lens.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 05:37:12 pm by kers »
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torger

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2014, 07:41:48 am »

Which blog do you refer to?

Off topic now; this guy, http://www.svenpersson.com his blog is not a techie blog or updated very often and is in Swedish, ie not for the general Lula public. He has his H4D-50 for sale and I'm interested :-). I'll wait a while though, hopefully for him he finds a buyer that wants the body too, I only want the back as I shoot tech cam.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2014, 07:52:07 am »

Personally, I find this topic to be nothing more than a slap in the face to all medium format users.  It was completely inappropriate for this to be posted here, amongst a community of MF users, who look to each other for support and technical issues.  I consider this to be nothing but trolling on the OPs part.  

The OP would, IMHO, be similar to a neighbor I have never spoken to.  I save up for a BMW 5 or 6 series, buy one, feel good about my purchase, only to have this neighbor one day knock on my door.  He explains to me how he just bought a VW, was thinking about a BMW, but ultimately felt it was not worth the money, and than going into detail as to why.  Essentially saying, "you're a jack ass for buying a BMW," not really a neighborly thing to do.    

Now if this OP came to this forum before making his purchase and asked for advice, then that would be different, even if he decided to go the D810 route.  That would have been appropriate.  

I could try and refute what he has said about MF and give my view as an experienced user in both MF and DSLRs, but why bother now? 
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