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Author Topic: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer  (Read 36032 times)

Eddie van der Walt

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2014, 10:44:36 am »

Well another dslr user that found it necessary to post x vs z on the large and medium format forum. Why not post stuff like this on the DSLR forum?

I am quite happy to move this across to the DSLR forum. I posted here because I did most of my medium format research here, but I did not mean to cause offence.
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Eddie van der Walt

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2014, 10:52:17 am »

Hi Theodoros,

Thank you very much for your input. You seem to have a lot of passion for and knowledge of the subject.
I can assure you that I have a very long history with medium format - as I said above, I trained for three years shooting much of my initial portfolio on Mamiya film bodies. I also made sure that I had at least some hands-on time with all the cameras I considered. I loved the Hasselblads, and I can't deny that the image quality - particularly because of the dynamic range still tops anything Nicanon has to offer - but that is not the argument I was making above.
Anyway, I look forward to receiving more input from you and the other forum users.
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Theodoros

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2014, 11:02:51 am »

I am quite happy to move this across to the DSLR forum. I posted here because I did most of my medium format research here, but I did not mean to cause offence.
Obviouly... but, don't you find that the title itself which says "why did you choose something"... while you've never compared it to another under some relevant circumstances, is offensive for experienced users of MF that have chosen this path... after putting a lot of testing and reasoning behind, as being offensive by definition? ...I mean "why did you choose it against..."? ..did you try the alternative and found it worst? ...did you find the alternative as "non worthing the difference" after comparison? ...or is it just that you considered the specs (and perhaps some "tests") of some brochures to come to a "conclusion" and post it like one? ....do you think that MF users are ignorant of those "reviews" of DXO and others?  ;) ...do you think that they (MF users) care of what those "tests" conclude?  ;D I can tell you from self experience that they "don't give a dime" against their SELF experience...
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2014, 11:03:38 am »

Hi,

Once you stop down to f/5.6 - f/11 diffraction will limit quality anyway. If you shoot f/1.4, with live view MF the Otus makes a lot of sense, but at f/8, I don't think so.

Best regards
Erik


Kers,
Cheap does not equal bad.
For instance, the Nikon 58mm f1.4 is ridiculously expensive - but the optical perfomance is poor.
I looked at one thing and one thing only - optical quality.
And yes, I know the Carl Zeiss lenses are better - but AF is a pretty basic requirement for portrait photography.
And yes, the Sigma delivers quality to match the Nikon 50 f1.4G, but it does not better it.
See the attached technical test.
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Theodoros

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2014, 11:08:44 am »

Hi Theodoros,

Thank you very much for your input. You seem to have a lot of passion for and knowledge of the subject.
I can assure you that I have a very long history with medium format - as I said above, I trained for three years shooting much of my initial portfolio on Mamiya film bodies. I also made sure that I had at least some hands-on time with all the cameras I considered. I loved the Hasselblads, and I can't deny that the image quality - particularly because of the dynamic range still tops anything Nicanon has to offer - but that is not the argument I was making above.
Anyway, I look forward to receiving more input from you and the other forum users.
OK... explain then what your MF (digital) experience has been as to have D810 preferred against... What was the actual comparison and under what circumstances? ...I am asking you right from the begging....
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Eddie van der Walt

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2014, 11:16:36 am »

Theodoros,

I hope my title is not inflamatory. And I never, not once, suggested that 35mm is better than MF. I have a lot of experience with MF, and I know that it is not the case.
I said I made my decision because I worry that R&D money is being diverted away from MF and to 35mm and that we may in future see fewer MF producers.
Have a look at this quote from a Leica exec in Forbes:
Quote
There are no industry-wide figures, but we think the core medium format market is roughly 6000 units per year worldwide, for all brands. We are not yet the market leader (I estimate Phase One to have 40-45% market share), but we already have 20% share and this is only after 3 years after introduction.
So the entire market is just 6,000 units per year.
And we have, what four/five brands I can think of off the top of my head (Phase One, Leaf, Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad).
Pushing lens and sensor tech forward costs a lot of money, and at 6,000 units a year, I really think we can see one or two of these guys drop out of the race. And I don't want to hold the bag when they do.
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Theodoros

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 11:22:41 am »

Theodoros,

I hope my title is not inflamatory. And I never, not once, suggested that 35mm is better than MF. I have a lot of experience with MF, and I know that it is not the case.
I said I made my decision because I worry that R&D money is being diverted away from MF and to 35mm and that we may in future see fewer MF producers.
Have a look at this quote from a Leica exec in Forbes:So the entire market is just 6,000 units per year.
And we have, what four/five brands I can think of off the top of my head (Phase One, Leaf, Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad).
Pushing lens and sensor tech forward costs a lot of money, and at 6,000 units a year, I really think we can see one or two of these guys drop out of the race. And I don't want to hold the bag when they do.

Are we talking marketing now or the Q.... which is "reasoning of the choice"? ....Are you trying to "drive my reasoning crazy"?  ...it is well known for IT being a "square" one!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:30:15 am by Theodoros »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 11:25:21 am »

Hi Eddie,

I don't know if I feel medium format leads in any way. If we have a larger sensor using same technology it will always have an advantage. The main advantage will be better resolution and less noise. So, if you take any of those 50 MP 44x33 mm CMOS sensors, they will have a small advantage over Nikon or Sony offering, something like shooting 100 ISO instead of 200ISO. The advantage of 16-bit depth was always a case of false marketing, the new CMOS MF backs are all 14-bits.

I would say that MF has a couple of advantages. One is more resolution. Lenses may be better. MFD can be used with technical cameras, but present generation CMOS MFD may not work well with large shifts/tilts on many lenses.

Clearly, if resolution is needed, MFD has an advantage. There may also a pleasure in using old style equipment, my experience is with Hasselblad V.

Your choice is a reasonable one. Other photographers have made other choices. Discussing the criteria for choosing between MFD and DSLR makes a lot of sense on the MF/LF forum, while discussing choices between say Canon/Nikon/Panasonic makes little sense here. That said BC (James Russel) does discuss all of these on this forum, but always in a relevant context.

Best regards
Erik


Well, yes, I think that pixel count is highly overated. Even for wall-mounted prints. The viewing distances tend to dictate that we have passed what we need.
That was not a point I cared much about.
But I DID care about colour depth, and this is something medium format still leads the way on, by quite a long way.
However, the 35mm-style bodies are catching up fast.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:30:05 am by ErikKaffehr »
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Theodoros

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2014, 11:33:32 am »

Erik's ideas (of comparing his Sony against his P45+) are well known in this forum.... May be more than they should....
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:37:00 am by Theodoros »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2014, 12:21:23 pm »

Hi,

I guess that we are living in a society there ideas can be discussed openly?

Best regards
Erik


Erik's ideas (of comparing his Sony against his P45+) are well known in this forum.... May be more than they should....

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Erik Kaffehr
 

MrSmith

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2014, 12:26:53 pm »

"I guess that we are living in a society there ideas can be discussed openly?"

Or you can be shouted down and browbeaten? But the ignore function offers salvation.
 ;)
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eronald

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2014, 02:43:42 pm »

"I guess that we are living in a society there ideas can be discussed openly?"

But the ignore function offers salvation.
 ;)


Absolutely. Anyone who wants to ignore somebody ;)  may go to Profile -> Personal Message Options -> and add the username of your favorite ignoramus (pun intended). Solves a lot of aggravation issues because that way one cannot be baited.

On the other hand you get to miss all the fun and mudslinging when others get baited.

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 03:30:34 pm by eronald »
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ndevlin

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2014, 02:49:19 pm »

If you're primary fear was financial stability of the manufacturer then you don't really need to wonder. The annual reports and financial disclosures of the major medium format vendors are fully public information.rom/on canon and nikon regarding their sales of mid and high-end dSLRs.

Sorry to thread-jack, but where could one find these? Thanks.

- N.
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Manoli

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2014, 03:21:02 pm »

Sorry to thread-jack, but where could one find these? Thanks.

I assume your interest is more regarding Phase One than Canon. This is a first step - link and this earlier thread. Earlier links to both this information and P1 public filings seem to have have been removed from their Wikipedia page.

Pre SilverFleet buyout, Phase One 's Liquidity Ratio was about 70%, today it's showing as 104%.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 03:27:38 pm by Manoli »
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torger

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2014, 03:35:36 pm »

I think it's the first time I hear someone back out due to doubts about financial stability :-). But surely I can understand, 15 years is an extremely long perspective when it comes to largely electronic products which camera systems are these days. With a desire for that kind of stability I would surely go for either Nikon or Canon. For a shorter term Phase One seems good, while Hasselblad I don't really know, if only judging from released products Hasselblad looks in better shape now than a year ago for sure.

Image quality-wise when it comes to portrait applications I think we now have reached a level when differences between the best fullframe 135 and the best 645 are totally irrelevant to any layman and most photographers, but you will still hear some golden-eyed person claim huge differences, a little like some audiophiles can hear huge differences between cables. Image quality is not the issue.

Handling and creative options (large viewfiender, leaf shutters etc) are still different though, so one can still prefer MFD. That I myself use MFD is for the creative options foremost (I'm doing landscapes with a view camera though, not portraits). I think it's in that end one should approach MFD, if one is only there for the image quality but do not really like the handling I'm quite sure one will be out soon.
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Manoli

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2014, 03:51:16 pm »

Since this is going to develop to another "mp-count" conversation (trolling in reality) ... I will excuse myself!

8 posts on and counting ...

« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 03:53:00 pm by Manoli »
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eronald

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2014, 04:14:18 pm »


Image quality-wise when it comes to portrait applications I think we now have reached a level when differences between the best fullframe 135 and the best 645 are totally irrelevant to any layman and most photographers, but you will still hear some golden-eyed person claim huge differences, a little like some audiophiles can hear huge differences between cables. Image quality is not the issue.

Handling and creative options (large viewfiender, leaf shutters etc) are still different though, so one can still prefer MFD. That I myself use MFD is for the creative options foremost (I'm doing landscapes with a view camera though, not portraits). I think it's in that end one should approach MFD, if one is only there for the image quality but do not really like the handling I'm quite sure one will be out soon.

I think the image quality difference is as big one way as the handling difference the other way :)

BTW what does quite sure mean?

Edmund
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Quentin

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2014, 05:39:20 pm »

The differences are quite small. You can (as I currently have)  mix large D810, Sony A7R and Hasselblad H5D-50 prints around on your wall and you would not be able to tell which camera took which shot.  In absolute terms the Hasselblad is the best, but the point Eddie gets right is that the margins are now very small compared with the days of film.  The versatility / portability of a smaller camera is compelling.  
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luxborealis

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2014, 06:28:35 pm »

Ok, I fully expect this to be controversial.
And yes, I am sticking my neck pretty far out as a first-time poster on Luminous Landscape.
But I have been reading the site for months and months, and it was a key part of my research earlier this year when I decided to come back into photography and strated looking at gear.
.
.
.
With all this in mind then, I just ordered my D810 and a handful or prime lenses. It has been a painful decision, and I want to thank the Luminous Landscape community for all the info you have posted that helped inform my decision.


Congratulations and welcome to the forum. I don't need to tell you that you've made an excellent decision but you're right MP is not the top reason. More than any other system out there, the D810 has the greatest Dynamic Range. It's what I appreciate the most about my now dated D800E.

Don't worry about the trolls; they are trying to justify their own decision for another system. Funny how people are like that. One can find flaws in any system, (yes, even Leica and Hasselblad - ROI vs quality being one of them), so all we can do is make a decision and go with it based on what makes sense for us.
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bcooter

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Re: Why I chose a Nikon D810 over a Hasselblad H5D 50 as a portrait photographer
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2014, 06:44:46 pm »

You know this and so does everyone else.

The best camera is the one you have when something amazing is in front of the lens.

The rest really doesn't matter.

IMO

BC
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