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Author Topic: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros  (Read 33235 times)

NancyP

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #140 on: September 25, 2014, 10:30:47 pm »

tell me more, synn. (NP slaps self upside head, tells self "go off and make and shoot that pinhole cam")

 My creature comforts require a good live view with magnification, for manual focusing in the field (landscapes). And - a proper cable release option (one of my points of irritation with Sigma DP Merrill - NO way to implement remote release).
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synn

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #141 on: September 25, 2014, 11:09:58 pm »

tell me more, synn. (NP slaps self upside head, tells self "go off and make and shoot that pinhole cam")

 My creature comforts require a good live view with magnification, for manual focusing in the field (landscapes). And - a proper cable release option (one of my points of irritation with Sigma DP Merrill - NO way to implement remote release).

Hi Nancy,

I was talking about the pre-owned back route. Backs have no moving parts, so one with a 100k shot count is essentially still brand new if it was properly taken care of. Some dealers offer packages that include a basic warranty as well. You can find some offers here: https://captureintegration.com/products/demo-digital-backs/ (I am not affiliated in any way). Doug from DT would also be able to offer similar deals. Fleabay would be cheaper and if the seller looks trustworthy, go for it.

Pretty much all backs have cable release options and some like the P25+ or the P45+ offer very clean long exposures as well. Live view on older backs is definitely a problem because of the CCD sensors and the dated LCDs, but a good solution, that a lot of guys use is to tether to a small macbook (11" MBA for instance). Both Capture one pro (For Phase/ Leaf) and Phocus (For Blad) offer very robust tethering based live view, which should be just fine for focusing reasons.

I went down the Mamiya route because of the abundance of great lenses in the used market for incredibly cheap prices. For example, this is what a $300 35mm Mamiya lens can do on my Credo 40. (Right click the image and select "View image").



Generally, there are no real "Dud" lenses in the MF world, most are fairly good-to-excellent and made even better with current day software. For example, C1P has excellent distortion correction and can specifically correct corner softness too.

Of course, if you go for the current generation lenses, the results are truly astounding. The 80mm "Kit" lens for example is eye bleedingly sharp!



p.s. PM me if you would like higher resolution versions of the images.

Cheers!  :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 11:16:00 pm by synn »
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David Anderson

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #142 on: September 25, 2014, 11:15:59 pm »

Canon CPS has worked on the lens several times. Most recently six months ago.

FWIW, I found that the 50 1.2L was a little random in it's AF accuracy unless the micro adjustment was pin-perfect.
Even then, I threw away more frames due to the AF missing than any other lens.

The 135 F2 you mention, on the other hand was dead accurate.  8)
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #143 on: September 26, 2014, 04:25:13 am »


You haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about, and I do, so don't contradict me! I have 50 years of experience, 43 years with Leicaflex cameras and lenses, all with film. I have often been astonished at the image quality of my equipment with B&W or Kodachrome films. What you see here is mostly inexpensive sans from recent photos taken hand-held on Fuji Pro 400H high-speed color negative film with uncontrolled light, which I use because I am mostly shooting people candidly these days. I don't shoot rocks or trees or use a tripod often. Given my objectives, my photos are satisfactory for my purposes, and are not intended for large display. I could use slower films and spend more and get higher-res scans but I have no need for that. But then I would not be able to get the images I like, which require long lenses and fast films.

I'm sorry but this says it all......  I don't class myself as a great photographer but I can safely say that my pictures in general are better than yours.  And so are those of Nemo (much better than mine) so I think we do know what we are talking about.  I agree you know more about Leica gear than me, but don't accuse me of contradicting ridiculous statements.  You are questioning every other photographers knowledge based on your own personal bias.  How old are you?  Funny that you've been using the same gear for 40 years - all that shows is that you have your mind closed to alternatives.  But as I've said - each to their own. I'm not sure what you're getting so worked up about. The fact that you have been 'astonished' by your image quality, but then post links to slightly unsharp or out of focus pictures tells me that you do not set high standards.  Why link to snapshots?  At least show the very best of your pictures.

You question the skill and knowledge of professional photographers and think you know best.  There are lots of amateurs who are better photographers than me - but while I am prepared to listen to some of the technical gurus on LL who obviously understand the mechanics of photography in it's broadest sense even if they are not great photographers, I cannot be lectured to by an average photographer with a religious zealotry for one particular brand of camera - which quite obviously must be the best because you use it.  You may be right, but so what?  We who photograph for a living just want gear that does the job.  We are mostly enthusiasts too and love what we do.  You seem full of negativity and venom.  That is sad.

Oh, and anybody that quotes Ken Rockwell as an authority slips a little in my estimation.  Only because while I have no personal axe to grind with him, I have read some of his views and statements that just do not tally with my experience.

Jim
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David Anderson

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #144 on: September 26, 2014, 05:34:56 am »

Well said Jim.  8)
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Hulyss

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #145 on: September 26, 2014, 06:00:27 am »

Guys, do not fight :)

The thing is that a lot of Canon users just wait for an high MP "pro" camera and it is very possible that will be reality. A firm like Canon is obliged to studies this option because ... it's canon !! It is not a random brand ... So it take time (and hope on our side).

The 7DMk II is a cool answer for pro who use APS-C, not like Nikon with the D7xxx line ... Most of my pro friends use multiple gear and are a bit tired lugging around tones of different material to cover their needs. Some of them found peace in the D810 while some stay with the 5DMKIII. So far, the files of the 5DMkIII are very nice and 22 MP are plenty for a lot of applications if not most.

The thing is that all Pros in photography do not need the same gear. Some pros do not even know what gear suit them the best. But the vast majority would like an "all in one", for sure. Moderate weight, high MP, good lenses, good video if needed and a good price ... and rugged.

A lot of ppl here speak about pros and I wonder what they mean, "gear wise", about being pro. I know pros in macro photography who use old DSLR you might label as crap; there is pros with full MF gear (some even say they own them, on forum, but in reality they rent them; I've busted some). Lately I do a lot of event and cross the roads of some pro (independent) event photographers ... the vast majority do not even use FF. D7000/7100 + 7D/70D  are the most common DSLR I see (and black magic cameras). When I see D700/D800/D3/D3s/1DS/1Dx/5D ... it is agency photographers and the gear is owned by the agency. I speak for France and my little finger tell me it is approximately the same in other country.

So, by observation, the photographic landscape of professionals in photography is tiny, very tiny. Pros with MF are rare; not on forums ofc but they are pretty rare. Pros who really need 36 MP files are pretty rare too. As an example, I got a commissioned work for a French wine : Domaine de la Romanée Conti. I did the shoots with two cameras a D700 and a DP3 Merril. Client was super happy and never asked or looked at my material, never. 12 MP and 16 MP. Generally, when a client want big files he ask for it. Most pros do rent the specific material today, if needed.

So ... Canon is abandoning the Pros ?? Hell no. Nonsense.

We have more tools today at our disposal than ever in history. If the goal of a society (if I'm not wrong) is making profit, renting is one if not the best option. Rent the material you need and buy the system you like (if you can ^^).



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NashvilleMike

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #146 on: September 26, 2014, 11:31:45 am »

I'm sorry but this says it all......  I don't class myself as a great photographer but I can safely say that my pictures in general are better than yours.  And so are those of Nemo (much better than mine) so I think we do know what we are talking about.  I agree you know more about Leica gear than me, but don't accuse me of contradicting ridiculous statements.  You are questioning every other photographers knowledge based on your own personal bias.  How old are you?  Funny that you've been using the same gear for 40 years - all that shows is that you have your mind closed to alternatives.  But as I've said - each to their own. I'm not sure what you're getting so worked up about. The fact that you have been 'astonished' by your image quality, but then post links to slightly unsharp or out of focus pictures tells me that you do not set high standards.  Why link to snapshots?  At least show the very best of your pictures.

You question the skill and knowledge of professional photographers and think you know best.  There are lots of amateurs who are better photographers than me - but while I am prepared to listen to some of the technical gurus on LL who obviously understand the mechanics of photography in it's broadest sense even if they are not great photographers, I cannot be lectured to by an average photographer with a religious zealotry for one particular brand of camera - which quite obviously must be the best because you use it.  You may be right, but so what?  We who photograph for a living just want gear that does the job.  We are mostly enthusiasts too and love what we do.  You seem full of negativity and venom.  That is sad.

Oh, and anybody that quotes Ken Rockwell as an authority slips a little in my estimation.  Only because while I have no personal axe to grind with him, I have read some of his views and statements that just do not tally with my experience.

Jim

Another "spot on Jim" from me.

I'll be quite blunt and probably get spanked by the mods, but at this point, I don't care: ever since this Melchior guy has come into the forums, I feel the need to skip these forums. I'd rather read dpreview than come here now. Anyone who posts such grandiose comments like "Film is vastly superior to digital in every way" or "manual focus is always better than autofocus", or denounces all Japanese products as "Jap-o-crap" rings off literally every alarm bell of bullshit I have in my body. I sense xenophobia, arrogance, and technophobia in those statements.

I mean, taken logically, the odds, mathematically, that every single aspect of film is better (than digital) to a degree of magnitude that merits the word "vast" is quite minimal. I can accept "film has SOME aspects that are superior to digital" far more than "vastly superior in every way". And I can *guarantee*, speaking as a guy who has shot theater and dance, that in those situations I'll get a higher hit rate with AF than I do manual focus, and I'm a guy who has successfully shot dance in the film days with manual focus lenses, so I speak from experience. And don't get me started on his snobbery on countries. As soon as I hear that one nation, culture, gender, race or belief system has the exclusive rights to being at the top of the heap, the more I heavily discount that voice,  hard.

All I see in his postings are a closed mind and arrogance. I may "only" have 38 years photography experience in multiple formats, have images published in most every medium (newsprint, magazine, calendar, brochure, poster), and an experience set that likely at least matches his, but the older I get and the more I think I know, the more I come to realize I *don't know everything* and that I need to continually keep an open mind and learn from people who know more than I do (and that's really why I read this forum - having guys here who live on a different planet knowledge wise than I do lets me accomplish learning). Particularly as I get older, I need to remind myself that while I have deep experience in a variety of things, I always must be open to learning more and to continually question my own beliefs and biases. The day I stop doing that, is the day I stop learning and growing.

The poster we speak of would do well to take a long break from the forums and think long and hard about his attitude and his writings here.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #147 on: September 26, 2014, 11:41:51 am »

Hi,

My take on the issue is that as long as Canon has number #1 marketshare they don't need to worry. I also guess that more world class images are taken with Canons than with all other system counted together. That may change, of course, but I would be pretty sure that many or most competition winners were made by Canon.

Now, there is another side to it. Canon owners have a very significant investment in Canon gear and I have some understanding for many of those users lusting for features that Canon now lacks. The most obvious ones are high DR at base ISO and high resolution on full frame. Yes, I feel that Canon needs to care for those customers, too…

Best regards
Erik


Guys, do not fight :)

The thing is that a lot of Canon users just wait for an high MP "pro" camera and it is very possible that will be reality. A firm like Canon is obliged to studies this option because ... it's canon !! It is not a random brand ... So it take time (and hope on our side).

The 7DMk II is a cool answer for pro who use APS-C, not like Nikon with the D7xxx line ... Most of my pro friends use multiple gear and are a bit tired lugging around tones of different material to cover their needs. Some of them found peace in the D810 while some stay with the 5DMKIII. So far, the files of the 5DMkIII are very nice and 22 MP are plenty for a lot of applications if not most.

The thing is that all Pros in photography do not need the same gear. Some pros do not even know what gear suit them the best. But the vast majority would like an "all in one", for sure. Moderate weight, high MP, good lenses, good video if needed and a good price ... and rugged.

A lot of ppl here speak about pros and I wonder what they mean, "gear wise", about being pro. I know pros in macro photography who use old DSLR you might label as crap; there is pros with full MF gear (some even say they own them, on forum, but in reality they rent them; I've busted some). Lately I do a lot of event and cross the roads of some pro (independent) event photographers ... the vast majority do not even use FF. D7000/7100 + 7D/70D  are the most common DSLR I see (and black magic cameras). When I see D700/D800/D3/D3s/1DS/1Dx/5D ... it is agency photographers and the gear is owned by the agency. I speak for France and my little finger tell me it is approximately the same in other country.

So, by observation, the photographic landscape of professionals in photography is tiny, very tiny. Pros with MF are rare; not on forums ofc but they are pretty rare. Pros who really need 36 MP files are pretty rare too. As an example, I got a commissioned work for a French wine : Domaine de la Romanée Conti. I did the shoots with two cameras a D700 and a DP3 Merril. Client was super happy and never asked or looked at my material, never. 12 MP and 16 MP. Generally, when a client want big files he ask for it. Most pros do rent the specific material today, if needed.

So ... Canon is abandoning the Pros ?? Hell no. Nonsense.

We have more tools today at our disposal than ever in history. If the goal of a society (if I'm not wrong) is making profit, renting is one if not the best option. Rent the material you need and buy the system you like (if you can ^^).




« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:57:28 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #148 on: September 26, 2014, 12:46:56 pm »

The poster we speak of would do well to take a long break from the forums and think long and hard about his attitude and his writings here.

I see his status has changed to 'guest' so I suppose either he has decided to take a break - or somebody upstairs has decided for him.....
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NancyP

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2014, 12:53:37 pm »

Hulyss, I need to hang out at your gigs - Romanee-Conti , eh (please imagine appropriate accent). You can't get any more prestigious than that in the wine universe. Period. A sniff of the cork could pay for the photographer's entire kit.  Are the photos on the Romanee-Conti website?
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NancyP

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #150 on: September 26, 2014, 05:08:55 pm »

One good thing Ken Rockwell has done is provide a catalogue of commonly available Nikkor production lenses (as opposed to industrial lenses, check the Red Book for that). He may not be the ultimate authority on image quality, but he has provided useful information for those of us who wonder "what are these ancient manual lenses my relative just gave me?".
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Hulyss

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #151 on: September 26, 2014, 05:16:42 pm »

Hulyss, I need to hang out at your gigs - Romanee-Conti , eh (please imagine appropriate accent). You can't get any more prestigious than that in the wine universe. Period. A sniff of the cork could pay for the photographer's entire kit.  Are the photos on the Romanee-Conti website?

Ha ! that was luck based contract. One of my old friend (and model) was trainee in this domaine. For a project she gift my name and I got a phone call. It was not for the web site but a brochure. Anyway it was very nice :)

Quote
One good thing Ken Rockwell has done is provide a catalogue of commonly available Nikkor production lenses (as opposed to industrial lenses, check the Red Book for that). He may not be the ultimate authority on image quality, but he has provided useful information for those of us who wonder "what are these ancient manual lenses my relative just gave me?".

And I agree with you about Ken, his website is comfortable to read and roam. AT least it is not a sort of blog and I like it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 05:19:23 pm by Hulyss »
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NancyP

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #152 on: September 26, 2014, 07:00:55 pm »

Hulyss: Were you allowed to sniff a taster's glass? That would be worth bragging rights.
Note: I am not a wine aficionado, but my dad was, he had books about wine and vineyards in the house, and about 40 years ago he took a trip-of-a-lifetime to France to tour the vineyards. I am not sure that he ever got to try a Romanee-Conti wine. This was a much better visit than his previous visit to France, which involved freezing his butt off in the Ardennes Forest getting shot at by Germans (AKA "Battle of the Bulge").
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Hulyss

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #153 on: September 27, 2014, 05:08:41 am »

Hulyss: Were you allowed to sniff a taster's glass? That would be worth bragging rights.
Note: I am not a wine aficionado, but my dad was, he had books about wine and vineyards in the house, and about 40 years ago he took a trip-of-a-lifetime to France to tour the vineyards. I am not sure that he ever got to try a Romanee-Conti wine. This was a much better visit than his previous visit to France, which involved freezing his butt off in the Ardennes Forest getting shot at by Germans (AKA "Battle of the Bulge").

Yes I was allowed :) For sure it taste good but Bourgogne wines do not have my preference. I'm more Langedoc Roussillon wine because I love Syrat and Grenache grape varieties.
Wine is a perfect niche market ;)

I would like to tanks your father for fighting for my country back in the days :)

(But we slipped out of topic ^^)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 05:10:40 am by Hulyss »
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hjulenissen

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #154 on: September 28, 2014, 04:26:18 am »

I can see what is going to happen when Canon introduces a new high mp count sensor in a 1 series camera: people will then complain that it will be too expensive... sigh...

Who is willing today to pay north of USD 6000 for a 1DX like camera with high +40 mp sensor?

Note that the D810, Sony A7R etc are not in the same price category as a D4 or 1DX.

To me, the only doubt is whether Canon will put such a sensor in a 1D series camera, or in the 5D type camera. In a sense, the 1D high resolution sensor camera may have died; again, the action-pro camera from Nikon is not high res sensor.

Or they may put it in both series.
I want am hoping for a 6D/EOS-M ish high-resolution, high DR @ low ISO, compact, low cost EF compatible (possibly via converter). Let's call it a Canon "A7r" with the benefit of Canon flash compability, superior lens electronic control, familiar Canon ergonomy. Throw in some innovation (_working_ all-electronic shutter?), and my wallet is open.

I'd be willing to sacrifice AF tracking, framerate, magnesium housing (though splash-proof would be nice), abundance of dials in order to keep costs down (and to protect the margins of Canons higher-end offerings). Personally, I can live without wifi, GPS, articulated LCD and video as well, but I don't know if that is wise for sales of such a product (I realise that a successful product cannot be tailormade for me).

I guess that Canon are in for the long term. Building/purchasing a sensor plant is probably not something that you do on a whim. Thus, there is considerable delay from changes in customer preferences (e.g. HD video) or competitor improvements (e.g. Sony sensors) and until Canon can offer a response. In the mean time, they have to (like all of us, I guess) offer the best that they can, hoping that people will like their stuff, while keeping their own costs down.

-h
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 04:34:52 am by hjulenissen »
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nemophoto

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #155 on: September 28, 2014, 09:09:47 am »

Canon has always been totally vertical in it's approach to digital, and almost from the start has always produced their own sensors. The one exeption, it seems, based on reports, is the new Powershot G7x, which some believe uses the Sony 1" sensor. I find it a little hard to believe that Canon would source something like that from a major rival, but you never know what alliances form in Japan. Fujifilm for years used Nikon bodies with their sensors, until Nikon cut them off. In the end, Fujifilm created an arguably better camera series. Nikon was designing their own sensors initially, which generally sucked. Then they outsourced sensors to Sony, and have some of the best cameras on the market. So, I guess it's not beyond reason to think Canon might do the same.

I'm just dismayed that Canon allowed itself to squander what could have arguably been called the "world Lead" in cameras and sensors. In the end, it's all about numbers, not pros (of course). When you look at the sales numbers of Canon versus Nikon and even Sony, you see where they're headed. At one point I even thought about getting into Sony, buying the A99, but I really dislike (at least for my work), EVF versus a true viewfinder.
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John Koerner

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #156 on: September 28, 2014, 11:23:23 am »

In the end, it's all about numbers, not pros (of course).


The truth is, in the end, most pros aren't landscape shooters.  Most pros aren't concentrating on "just the sensor" as the sole entry on their list of needs/wants.

The Canon cameras fill more checks on most checklists, which is ultimately of greater use than filling out just one.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #157 on: September 28, 2014, 12:32:51 pm »

Hi,

Personally I like GPS and articulated LCD. I also find video belongs to state of the, and it comes essentially free. You can remove that stuff and sell it cheaper, but that is a marketing decision.

I would say that it would make some sense for Canon to introduce new technology on DSLRs rather than mirrorless.

It sort of surprises me that they don't have high resolution, as the 7D has it, but high DR & base ISO may take some time.

Best regards
Erik


I want am hoping for a 6D/EOS-M ish high-resolution, high DR @ low ISO, compact, low cost EF compatible (possibly via converter). Let's call it a Canon "A7r" with the benefit of Canon flash compability, superior lens electronic control, familiar Canon ergonomy. Throw in some innovation (_working_ all-electronic shutter?), and my wallet is open.

I'd be willing to sacrifice AF tracking, framerate, magnesium housing (though splash-proof would be nice), abundance of dials in order to keep costs down (and to protect the margins of Canons higher-end offerings). Personally, I can live without wifi, GPS, articulated LCD and video as well, but I don't know if that is wise for sales of such a product (I realise that a successful product cannot be tailormade for me).

I guess that Canon are in for the long term. Building/purchasing a sensor plant is probably not something that you do on a whim. Thus, there is considerable delay from changes in customer preferences (e.g. HD video) or competitor improvements (e.g. Sony sensors) and until Canon can offer a response. In the mean time, they have to (like all of us, I guess) offer the best that they can, hoping that people will like their stuff, while keeping their own costs down.

-h
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Glenn NK

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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #158 on: September 28, 2014, 01:46:01 pm »

I still assert that Canon, for their lip service, has ignored the pro market for a long time, choosing amateur and cinema over the still pro photographer. Where Canon does shine (at least until recently) is the CPS program. From all I've heard, much better and faster service than their Nikon counterpart. No such program exists for any other brand (that I know of) -- Sony, Leica, you name it. But, again, where I disparage Canon is even the CPS program is gradually turning it's back on pros. Originally, to join CPS, you have to show published work, show you were in fact a working photographer. Now, it's pony up the money and have a certain level of equipment (so in theory, any well equipped dentist could join). But what's worse is, even paying for the service now, if you say to them when sending in your 50/1.2 and a 1Dx, "Hey, it's not sharp. It's also back focusing", you end up with an $800 bill! (True story from six months ago.) If I'd sent those in for cleaning, they may or may not have caught the problem, but IF they had, it wouldn't have cost me anything since it was a "clean and check" service. Oh, and the 50 still sucks big time. (I'm getting rid of it and buying a Sigma 50 -- rented for my last shoot and a truly sharp lens.)

Unless things change dramatically, after using Canon since 1980, I believe I can say, they've abandoned the pro still shooter.

Canon's aim it to maximize profits; that's what corporations do and must do.

If the profit lies with the cheaper consumer cameras, that's where their emphasis will be - and this will translate into less emphasis on the higher end products.

I don't think it's a matter of "Canon Abandons the Pros" as much as it is "Canon focuses where the profit is".
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Re: Photokina - Canon abandons the pros
« Reply #159 on: September 28, 2014, 07:23:32 pm »

Fine, some bodies are expensive relative to some lenses but lenses overall break less often (unless they are dropped of course) and using another lens is often a realistic workaround in the case a breakdown does occur. That's my understanding of the reason why people don't own back up of lenses. Would you not agree?
Not some bodies - the type of bodies in question compared to the majority of lenses needed by pros. Also I've not had a camera body fail this century, even though I cracked a rear screen when it fell off a bed on location. But camera still worked fine. However times lens have been for repair - 16-35mm x3, 35mm x1, 24-70mm x1, 70-200 x2 and they've been mollycoddled compared to a lot of pro kit. No lens has ever been dropped or banged as it happens. The 35mm died, first time I used it which was particularly annoying as I decided to travel light for once and that was the only lens I had with me that weekend away.
Before digital, much the same as lenses would regularly rattle apart and bodies just kept going. I became quite adept at taking lenses apart to repair them as a result.

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Btw, nobody would think you are crazy if you spent that much on bikes as a pro. In fact most people would think you'd be crazy to be a pro cyclist not owning 2 back ups of your 6-10 KUS$ carbon wonder bike because those DO break.
Like pro riders have to pay for their bikes  ::)  ....they are sponsored to ride what ever bike their team provides. Oh and carbon bikes are incredibly strong these days and I've had steel and aluminium frames snap on me BTW. Just bought a carbon seat post to replace a broken aluminium one as it happens and as I had a titanium one break previously and have bent steel ones, I thought I'd try carbon for a change. Ironically I'm a light rider but I have a long seat post with lots of layback, which makes for a big lever with lots of stress over rough terrain/roads.

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And in the end, a 3KUS$ back up body that will remain mostly un-used and will therefore last years is really nothing compared to the cost of running even a small business. Not to mention the fact that many pros keep their former generation bodies as back up. That is simply a totally negligible expenditure for a pro considering the huge risk of not owning sufficient back up.
Not really sure what/who you are arguing against as folks including me seem to agree a back up body is the sensible thing to do.  ???
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