The New Leica S (Typ 007) and Leica S-E (Typ 006)

[Theodoros]

I know nothing about why or why not camera prices fall, but Leica prices don't seem to drop off the planet like other digital, as long as it's pure leica and not panasonic clones.

I doubt seriously if S2's or S's will drop to nothing (though edmund does his best to put that thought out there)  just because the M9 has held it's price almost to the level of new, (if you could actually find a new M9).

Last year I was at a Leica dealer in London and he said once the m240 was out and Leica fanatics saw the results, the dealer sold his entire 24 m9's in a day and has a constant list of customers waiting for any M9 in good shape.

I doubt of the S2/S will be at that level, but I think the price you see today is pretty close to the price they will be for a long time.

I have to admit that if you've used an S/S2 the design and build quality just hit the perfect spot of feel and use.   It really is a great system and if we only shot stills I'd buy the new cmos S and probably never look back.


IMO

BC

P.S.   We rarely sell our old equipment (my bad) but I just sold our Sony FS100.  Two days after we listed it a guy wanted it, but Sony dropped the price of it new, equal to what I was asking.  I told the buyer he would be better off with new, but he wanted it and bought it for the asking price.  Now I did throw in the SSD drive for free, so maybe that was the reason.

Go figure.

Do you miss more pixels?

[Manoli]

I doubt seriously if S2's or S's will drop to nothing (though edmund does his best to put that thought out there)  just because the M9 has held it's price almost to the level of new, (if you could actually find a new M9).

Last year I was at a Leica dealer in London and he said once the m240 was out and Leica fanatics saw the results, the dealer sold his entire 24 m9's in a day and has a constant list of customers waiting for any M9 in good shape.
[..]

Well in a recent article in Die Welt, Alfred Schopf, CEO of Leica claims they're selling 300-350 M-E's a month. No new M9's around but the M-E is CCD.

The Leica lens is sharp, probably as sharp in reality, though has a smoother roll off from mid tones to shadows. It just depends on the look you want.  The Leica lenses, more film like with a look of smoothness, the contax Zeiss some would say more digital like with higher contrast.
[..]

Which pretty much sums up the historical difference between the two marques.

[Theodoros]

Which pretty much sums up the historical difference between the two marques.

Exactly what I was thinking... I also expect Leica glass to be less flare resistant than Zeiss... C645 glass is superb in that matter, which of course helps for the more contrasty look.

[JV]

Well in a recent article in Die Welt, Alfred Schopf, CEO of Leica claims they're selling 300-350 M-E's a month. No new M9's around but the M-E is CCD.

The M-E is essentially an M9 minus two features, a different color and offered at $5.5K (or $1.5K less than the regular M240 price of $7K).

Perhaps Leica will do something similar for the Leica S and release a Leica S-E?

The current promotion (extended till end of September I believe) has the Leica S priced at $17K (instead of $22K), so I guess it would need to be lower then for it to make sense?

[bcooter]

The M-E is essentially an M9 minus two features, a different color and offered at $5.5K (or $1.5K less than the regular M240 price of $7K).

Perhaps Leica will do something similar for the Leica S and release a Leica S-E?

The current promotion (extended till end of September I believe) has the Leica S priced at $17K (instead of $22K), so I guess it would need to be lower then for it to make sense?

A clean M9 in black or silver with a Red Dot goes from around 4k US to 8k, but averages around $4,000.   

If Leica is still selling mps with ccd filters then I guess they'll continue, though I wonder how many sensors they have access to?

I wish Leica would take a page out of Fuji (and lately Olympus book) and offer some retro upgrades, especially on tethering.

I know the M isn't thought of as a studio camera but the m8 and m9 have one of the most beautiful responses to studio flash (especially profoto) as any camera I've ever used and honestly could shoot more projects with them if I could tether.

Regardless I think this gives some idea of where S2 and S pricing will go with the S probably holding close to it's present price for a while, maybe longer depending on the reviews of the cmos S.

IMO

BC

[Atina]

B, I thought you would be the first in line to buy the new Leica S.  

[Theodoros]

B, I thought you would be the first in line to buy the new Leica S.  

Lets see the product first... He may be the second! I have two good FF bodies of Nikon and 14 top quality lenses of them of which I would be glad to get rid off...  

EDIT: ...if it "covers" what I keep the Nikon system for...  ...second body can be a S/H S2... 

[Atina]

Here they are:

http://www.fotointern.ch/archiv/2014/09/16/leica-s-neues-mittelformat-topmodell-mit-cmos-und-video-sowie-einsteigermodell/

http://www.digitalkamera.de/Meldung/Mittelformat-Profis_Leica_S_Typ_007_und_S-E_Typ_006/9112.aspx

http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-S-E-Typ-006

http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leicas-Topmodell-Die-neue-S-Typ-007

[KAHA]

Ja aber ich weiß nicht sprechen oder lesen Deutsch vielen Dank 

[KAHA]

 Here's a link in english http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-at-photokina-2014/Leica-at-photokina-2014/New-Products

[Atina]

Ja aber ich weiß nicht sprechen oder lesen Deutsch vielen Dank 

Google Translate? 

But even that's superfluous.

[Theodoros]

There seems to be a disagreement on the CMOS sensor resolution of the 007...  The German article claims a 50mp sensor, while BH http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082939-REG/leica_10804_leica_s_medium_format.html claims 37.5mp. I hope for the second to be true.    
It also appears that there will be two versions of the new S, one with CMOS sensor (available next spring), and another with the existing CCD sensor and similar specifications to the 006 (immediate availability). There also seems that there will be a new (lower) pricing policy... The CCD sensor camera is said to be available for 13000 Euros... From first site it looks very promising... I think I'll LEICA it.... 

[BernardLanguillier]

There seems to be a disagreement on the CMOS sensor resolution of the 007...  The German article claims a 50mp sensor, while BH http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082939-REG/leica_10804_leica_s_medium_format.html claims 37.5mp. I hope for the second to be true.    
It also appears that there will be two versions of the new S, one with CMOS sensor (available next spring), and another with the existing CCD sensor and similar specifications to the 006 (immediate availability). There also seems that there will be a new (lower) pricing policy... The CCD sensor camera is said to be available for 13000 Euros... From first site it looks very promising... I think I'll LEICA it....  

The .pdf in English here says 37.5mp CMOS.

http://en.leica-camera.com/content/download/120629/1219102/version/16/file/Technical-Data-Leica-S-Typ007_EN.pdf

Is it just me or they have just killed the re-sell value of second hand S2 with the S-E?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

The .pdf in English here says 37.5mp CMOS.

And no info on who manufactures the new CMOS sensor. Clearly not the SONY 50MP offering of the other makers.

[eronald]

And no info on who manufactures the new CMOS sensor. Clearly not the SONY 50MP offering of the other makers.

CMOSIS probably. As in the M240. Leica are reusing their established color science and filtering algorithms.

Edmund

[Theodoros]

And no info on who manufactures the new CMOS sensor. Clearly not the SONY 50MP offering of the other makers.

It most certainly is a Leica sensor, most probably in co-development with Belgian Cmosis, like the M Cmos sensor is... Certainly the resolution of 37.5mp perfectly matches the resolution (per area) of 24mp that is used on the 24x36mm Cmos sensor for the M. 

[peterv]

I'm not an expert on video-tech and I wonder what people who are working with motion/digital cinema think of the video specs? Can internal recording of motion jpeg be up to 2014 standards?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG

I guess they chose wisely, deciding to make 4k a sensor crop into the super 35 format and external recording sounds nice.

[JV]

Is it just me or they have just killed the re-sell value of second hand S2 with the S-E?

The CDD Leica S was already available at $17K (special promotion).  Leica seems to have prolonged that and it will be labeled the Leica S-E now.

The new CMOS Leica is now $25.4K which is a price increase of $3.5K.  I will only be available during Q2 next year.

Unless there is more beef somewhere this appears to be a bit underwhelming IMO...

[narikin]

Unless there is more beef somewhere this appears to be a bit underwhelming IMO...

Yup. underwhelming. 

Leica rather crippled themselves by establishing the whole S system around a 30x45mm sensor. It needed to be bigger.
If the new sensor is 'just' 37.5Mp it is falling behind other less-than-ff sensor offerings like those from Sony, with the D800/810 is nipping at its heels.

People go up to MF for substantially more pixels, among other reasons. A new S should have come in at around 48-50Mp to keep it alive and broadly appealing.

[peterv]

OTOH, 37,5 is more than enough for a lot of applications. The S was designed with handheld shooting in mind and that might become more difficult with more MP's. Perhaps the high resolving power of the S lenses will make up for the 10-12 MP difference with the competition.

But you're right, marketing-wise 37,5 MP is a bit underwhelming.