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Author Topic: D810 + fast primes handheld  (Read 26108 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2014, 08:07:52 am »

Do you honestly believe that the highest-resolving sensors + finest lenses render their sharpest images when hand-held?

It is possible to get very sharp results hand held with the D810. In fact I have never had as many sharp hand held images (when looked at on screen at 100%) with another camera before.



Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 08:29:34 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Niels_Patrick

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2014, 03:41:43 am »

I can also confirm the statement of Bernard. Specially with Nikon G Prime lenses 24 / 35 / 85

First look and feel: Otus 55 + 85 are outstanding performing on d810 with 64 base iso - excellent picture quality but manual focus.
I just have the 85 for one day ;-)


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2014, 05:17:26 am »

I can also confirm the statement of Bernard. Specially with Nikon G Prime lenses 24 / 35 / 85

First look and feel: Otus 55 + 85 are outstanding performing on d810 with 64 base iso - excellent picture quality but manual focus.
I just have the 85 for one day ;-)

The image above was shot with the Otus 55mm. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

dwswager

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2014, 01:03:39 pm »

I've had a D3s since 2010, but recently bought a D810 for images where resolution matters.

One thing that's really knocking my socks off in a bad way is how much my 85mm f1.4g sucks on the D810, handheld. I was taking pictures of my daughter playing with legos this morning, or trying to, and I thought, NAH, I won't use the 70-200mm f2.8 VR II. It's too big and heavy. I'll just snap that little 85mm f1.4g on there and sneak some pictures while her attention is on the legos. Total fail. I set the shutter speed to 1/250s and every frame turned out blurry.

At first I thought I was getting some back or front focus on the body. Eventually, after playing around with different things and focusing manually with live view as a test, I bumped the shutter to 1/400s. That seemed to be ok. I then got my 70-200mm VR II out and tested how low I could go. I was reliably getting sharp photos at 85mm and 1/125s. That's a HUGE difference. I bought that fast prime to assist in shooting low light scenes hand held, but if I have to crank the shutter speed up to 1/400s to eliminate hand shake (I think I have a pretty steady hand too), that means I have to lower my f-stop to f1.8 or f1.4 just to get the shot at the same ISO. That's a worse picture, not a better picture!

Granted, if there was some serious action going on, the 85mm 1.4g could out perform the 70-200mm f2.8 in low light, but that's a really narrow use case.

Why in the heck didn't they ship these fast primes with VR? That would make these lenses so much more useful.

You've discovered the extremely high pixel density makes the 800/810 not really suitable as a snap shot camera!  The 35mm film/sensor size aready stressed the lens design and technique.  And while we would all love all lenses to have the latest technology, real world considerations always intrude.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2014, 06:32:10 pm »

You've discovered the extremely high pixel density makes the 800/810 not really suitable as a snap shot camera!  The 35mm film/sensor size aready stressed the lens design and technique.  And while we would all love all lenses to have the latest technology, real world considerations always intrude.

This simply isn't the case.

As mentioned already, the combination of Auto ISO, a very well damped shutter/mirror and, sometimes, live view results in a high ratio of very sharp hand held images, higher than with other cameras I have owned.

I shoot a lot more hand held now than I used to.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 07:20:30 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Ajoy Roy

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2014, 01:15:40 am »

Actually the 24MP DX sensors have much higher densities, equivalent of 54MP on FX. That does not mean that you cannot get sharp hand held images from them. Yes at these high densities any error - focusing, camera shake or even wind results in a blurred image. The trick is to take it as fast as possible. I regularly use 1/500 or more without flash or use a flash to freeze action.

Here is a crop of handheld shot - F/22, 1/60 with flash, taken with D3300 (24MP no OLPF)
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kers

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2014, 04:49:22 pm »

They used to say in the analog  age.. choose a shutterspeed as fast or faster than the focal length..

Using the d800serie i think that still counts;  maybe slightly faster...

breath out while press the release :)
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Torbjörn Tapani

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Re:
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2014, 05:42:24 pm »

It's 2x or even 3x focal length for pixel level sharpness with the 36 mpix Nikons.
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rljones

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2014, 11:17:21 pm »

I too agree with Bernard.

I've found that the D810 gives me handheld clarity (without VR!) using Zeiss 25/2, Nikon 58/1.4G, Coastal-Optics 60/4 (bought years ago before Otus), and Nikon 85/1.8G. I'm amazed.

I've been spoiled with the Olympus EM-1 with IS on everything and was dreading working without IS. I'm soooo happy!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re:
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2014, 11:42:49 pm »

It's 2x or even 3x focal length for pixel level sharpness with the 36 mpix Nikons.

2x works well for me for lenses without VR.

The next image, manually focused with the Otus, was shot at 1/500s to freeze subject movement though. I just love the 3D effect that this lens delivers! ;)



Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 01:51:48 am by BernardLanguillier »
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synn

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2014, 12:18:20 am »

D800, 85 f/1.8, handheld, available light:





Neither were in particularly great lighting conditions. Just practice good shot discipline. It's doable.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2014, 01:24:53 am »

Hi,

This is the key, with the D3s you don't see the lack of sharpness, with the D810 it is more obvious. Would yo compare prints the D810 would still be sharper.

One great thing with digital is that you have a fast feed back cycle. So when you see that your technique is lacking you can take action to improve it.

Best regards
Erik



None of this matters on a tripod, of course. I just felt like ranting this morning.  I think the D3s's resolution is low enough that I never noticed this before. Seems like the D810 just magnifies every little flaw in an image. You have to really be precise with it. Kind of a double edged sword.
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ndevlin

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2014, 10:56:51 pm »


Welcome to the hell of ultra high-resolution photography.  Folks in MF have been struggling with these realities for years.  On the 645z I find 3x focal length to be the bare minimum for handheld.  The 300mm never reaches optimum sharpeness under 1/100th, even on a tripod, bc of shutter vibration. And Viewfinder focus can really be off sometimes on all of these beasts. 

Perfection is a bitch.

:-)

- N.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2014, 04:27:09 am »

Hi,

I would say that those issues are among the reasons we would be better off with:

- Mirrorless systems
- Electronic first curtain

A fully electronic shutter is noiseless and vibration free, but it may have other limitations like slow curtain travel.

Finally, wee should do something about the environment so we get solid ground instead of soil and no wind.

Best regards
Erik

Welcome to the hell of ultra high-resolution photography.  Folks in MF have been struggling with these realities for years.  On the 645z I find 3x focal length to be the bare minimum for handheld.  The 300mm never reaches optimum sharpeness under 1/100th, even on a tripod, bc of shutter vibration. And Viewfinder focus can really be off sometimes on all of these beasts. 

Perfection is a bitch.

:-)

- N.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2014, 07:54:16 am »

Finally, wee should do something about the environment so we get solid ground instead of soil and no wind.

Agreed. I have decided to stop taking pictures outside Class 1 clean rooms.

I have also just bought also a full spec BNC suit to reduce the impact of my breathing on the purity of the surrounding air.

Cheers,
Bernard

allegretto

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2014, 09:57:51 am »

you plan on helping when Ebola comes to Japan too...?
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trevarthan

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2014, 12:39:38 pm »

The OP really wants this thread to die. Sigh.
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maddogmurph

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Re:
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2014, 06:21:52 pm »

It's 2x or even 3x focal length for pixel level sharpness with the 36 mpix Nikons.

Back to the topic, I'm about ready to throw my D810 out the window.  Although it works amazingly well in my studio on a tripod, in the field, I've been coming back with some of my money shots in the blur.  I was on the AF-S NIKKOR 24mm f/1.4G ED this weekend and came back dissatisfied.  My copy produces sharpness in the center more so than the edges, and clear motion or vibration blur in the crop when not shot from my tripod, even when shot at 1/400, although most of my shots were around 1/200 to 1/320.  I haven't done nearly as much experimentation, but I'm going to start going through the motions like you.  My 50mm 1.4 performs very well, handheld, very little if any vibration blur if any at all.  I'd say 50% of my shots hand held on the wider lens did not come out well, using essentially the same technique in each shot.  It was just really odd, that some came out well, and others were off.

I'll take this sucker home tonight and take some suggestions to see what I can come up with.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2014, 06:40:38 pm »

Are U sure it is shake indiced blur? I strongly suspect focus issues.

Cheers,
Bernard

maddogmurph

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Re: D810 + fast primes handheld
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2014, 01:15:23 pm »

Are U sure it is shake indiced blur? I strongly suspect focus issues.

Cheers,
Bernard


You know, I think you're right.  I have an incredibly sharp architectural shot that is to the edges (handheld) I was examining last night.  One of the things I've had problems with is the focusing on the d810.  Is there some methodology to help this thing auto focus.  I've been spending a fair amount of time letting it auto focus, and then popping into manual so I can quickly fire shots when needed.  It's gotten to be one of my shooting habits on this camera, literally keeping a finger on the lenses AF-switch to manual.
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