Gaza's on-going Palestinian civilians Killing

[kers]

As i see it:
As long as the US keeps supporting Israel with weapons and money, whatever it does, the situation will remain as it is. There are a lot Jewish influencial people in the US who will make sure it will stay that way.
Israel is  also stratigically too important for the US in the Middle East, being their only ally they can depend upon.

Both Hamas and Israel do not want peace for their own political reasons.
This latest war seems meant to put an end to the peace talks that both do not seems to want anyway...

If i look at Israels policy throughout the years their intention seems to be to make life for Palestinians as miserable as possible in order to make them go away. They seem to want all their land.
They feed the support for Hamas with their needless wars as they need these ’bad’ Palestinians as an enemy to jusitify further wars and settlements in Palestinian territory.
At the same time this Palestinian enemy makes it for the Israelian politicians easier to stay in charge as all the attention is drawn from the bad economical situation of the state Israel.

If you start counting bodies the ratio will be about 1000 Palestinians to 1 Isreali..

As a consumer i never buy goods from Israel nor will i ever go there. Maybe a consumer boycot on a world scale could change Israels policy...

Alternative Jewish organizations in my country- Holland- say they are afraid, but find it understandable, that anti-semitism in the world may grow because of current Israeli war crimes…

[jjj]

About 150 years ago - or more - white settlers in America began colonising the west and in doing so displaced the Red Indian native from land they owned for thousands of years. When the Indians fought back they were murdered and placed into reservations where a close eye meant they they couldn't leave or they would be punished. Does anyone see a parallel between this and the Gaza crisis? Is this why the USA back the Israelis? Do the two countries have the same determination to conquer?

Sadly nothing unique to those two countries as it's simply typical human behaviour.
Israel is simply an ingress point to to the Middle East for the West. That along with close ties with the Jewish community that fled Europe and ended up in the US, some of whom have strong political influence. The US has the highest percentage of Jewish population outside of Israel, so it's not surprising they help Israel out more than any other country

[stamper]

British service men tried their best to protect the Palestinians from the Jews in the 1930's. Hundreds of them died at the hands of the Zionists culminating in the blowing up of the Hotel David in Jerusalem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

When partitioning happened in 1947 the Jews were given over 50% of the land - Palestinian land - despite having only 6% of the population. They have massively expanded their share of the land. 

[RSL]

You make the common mistake of thinking of the Palestinians as some sort of unitary group where every individual is responsible for the actions of all the others. Hamas is a foul group, but the active Hamas people are a small minority in Gaza and they don't give the rest of the people a whole lot of choice. If Israel could accurately target the terrorists and missile shooters and blow them to hell, I would be very happy. But, they cannot. Here's an analogy - your neighbor is building bombs to use in terrorist attacks, so the government comes in and blows up your house and kills your entire family. Is this OK with you? Because they did what they "gotta do?"

Then there's the likelihood that Israel's attacks actually help Hamas. Why do you think Hamas shoots the missiles? Most are intercepted and the few that aren't cause no real damage and very few casualties. They certainly don't weaken Israel - but they provoke the predictable bombings and invasion, which cause great suffering and anger among the people, which only strengthens Hamas's hand by increasing hatred of Israel and bringing them new recruits. So, Israel's attacks not only don't solve the problem, they help the enemy and kill hundreds of innocents while Israel's standing in the world sinks even lower. How exactly is this a good idea? How does it help Israel?

All very interesting, Peter, but you didn't answer the question.

[jjj]

If i look at Israels policy throughout the years their intention seems to be to make life for Palestinians as miserable as possible in order to make them go away. They seem to want all their land.

As I posted earlier...

If you start counting bodies the ratio will be about 1000 Palestinians to 1 Isreali..

Actually it's now over 1400 vs 59.

[jjj]

The carve up of land after the end of WW1 by the League of Nations seems to be the root cause of the current problems in Plastine/Israel.

[jjj]

All very interesting, Peter, but you didn't answer the question.

I think he did. He explained the situation pretty well and why there is no actual simplistic answer.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

The carve up of land after the end of WW1 by the League of Nations seems to be the root cause of the current problems in Plastine/Israel.

The sectarian violence amongst Islamic factions (sponsored by several stake holders) plays a major role. Israel is caught in the middle, but it's not the cause (nor does it help to defuse the situation).

Cheers,
Bart

[PeterAit]

All very interesting, Peter, but you didn't answer the question.

That's because I don't have an answer, and I sometimes doubt there is one. I think a reasonable fair 2-state solution is probably the only way to go, but I fear that the hardliners on both sides have probably poisoned that possibility. But, just because there doesn't seem to be a "good" response to Hamas is no reason for Israel to make the immoral and self-destructive response it has chosen (for at least the 3rd time).

[jjj]

The sectarian violence amongst Islamic factions (sponsored by several stake holders) plays a major role. Israel is caught in the middle, but it's not the cause (nor does it help to defuse the situation).

That's a separate issue. What is currently happening is about the carve up of land that used to belong to one group and the second group who now control nearly all of it want rid of the remaining original residents.

[Vladimirovich]

Israel is caught in the middle

Israel had (still has) a chance to deal with West Bank, leaving Gaza on sidelines... but they didn't -> it was pure greed because Israel still hopes to keep all the land that otherwise they have to give up.

[mezzoduomo]

Israel had (still has) a chance to deal with West Bank, leaving Gaza on sidelines... but they didn't -> it was pure greed because Israel still hopes to keep all the land that otherwise they have to give up.

I suppose it was their insatiable, imperialist, American-style land-grabbing urges that caused them to abandon all settlements in Gaza in 2005.

[PeterAit]

I suppose it was their insatiable, imperialist, American-style land-grabbing urges that caused them to abandon all settlements in Gaza in 2005.

No, it was actually Israel's realization that maintaining the security of the Gaza settlements was an impossible task.

[mezzoduomo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

Cheers,
Bernard

Next, what say you open a new thread here entitled 'Naked Anti-Semitism in Europe, circa 2014".

Cheers,
Mezzoduomo

[RSL]

I think he did. He explained the situation pretty well and why there is no actual simplistic answer.

Actually, as I said earlier, there's a very simple answer to how to stop the war between Hamas and Israel. Hamas stops shooting rockets at Israel and Israel stops clobbering Gaza. But the ball's in Hamas's court.

[Vladimirovich]

Actually, as I said earlier, there's a very simple answer to how to stop the war between Hamas and Israel. Hamas stops shooting rockets at Israel and Israel stops clobbering Gaza. But the ball's in Hamas's court.

the ball actually always is with the occupant, that's Israel...

[Vladimirovich]

I suppose it was their insatiable, imperialist, American-style land-grabbing urges that caused them to abandon all settlements in Gaza in 2005.

we talk about West Bank areas, part of Jerusalem ...

[Chris_Brown]

Hamas Detonates Suicide Bomb, Kidnaps IDF Soldier Just 90 Mins Into Ceasefire

Expect more finger-pointing.

[PeterAit]

Despite all statements, my impression is, that the current motives are mainly not to achieve peace,

I am not sure I agree with this. Israel wants peace, but it wants land and security more. The Palestinians want peace (most of them, anyway), but they want past injustices by Israel to be redressed first. These 2 sets of goals are incompatible. It's a case of right against right - or, all too often, wrong against wrong.

[RSL]

Israel wasn't shooting random rockets into Gaza.