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Author Topic: D810 support?  (Read 27556 times)

BernardLanguillier

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D810 support?
« on: July 16, 2014, 09:00:23 am »

Any visibility on the plan to support the D810 in C1 Pro?

Thanks,

Cheers,
Bernard

Paul2660

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 11:59:27 am »

I am sure they will eventually but it may be not until the next release.  The 810 will have the same issue with LR support and ACR. 

Paul
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 07:26:51 am »

I am sure they will eventually but it may be not until the next release.  The 810 will have the same issue with LR support and ACR. 

Hi Paul,

What makes you say so if I may ask?

Thanks.

Regards,
Bernard

Paul2660

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 08:37:12 am »

By issue,  I meant to say new camera no raw converter support. I have not seen a upgrade for the 810 yet in LR. May have missed it however.   C1 has supported all previous Nikon bodies in the past I hope it's just a matter of catch up. My 810 arrived at my dealer yesterday.

Paul
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 09:15:11 am »

By issue,  I meant to say new camera no raw converter support. I have not seen a upgrade for the 810 yet in LR. May have missed it however.   C1 has supported all previous Nikon bodies in the past I hope it's just a matter of catch up. My 810 arrived at my dealer yesterday.

I should be getting mine tomorrow.

As of now it is already supported by Iridient Developper.

But I would expect C1 Pro to work particularly well with it thanks to their experience with AA filter less demoisaicing.

Cheers,
Bernard

digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 10:07:14 am »

By issue,  I meant to say new camera no raw converter support. I have not seen a upgrade for the 810 yet in LR.
It's not (yet).
Thanks again Nikon (and Canon) for again making customers wait to use their own data.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 02:52:04 pm »

It's not (yet).
Thanks again Nikon (and Canon) for again making customers wait to use their own data.

Nonsense, according to Bernard's remark that Iridient Developer already supports* it. It's not the Camera makers, it's the software makers that need to catch up. Of course, if the camera makers would stop inventing new features, they could keep the Raw-file contents the same, and easy to translate/convert ...

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. * Apparently supported since July 10th.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 03:10:35 pm by BartvanderWolf »
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digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 03:24:01 pm »

Nonsense, according to Bernard's remark that Iridient Developer already supports* it. It's not the Camera makers, it's the software makers that need to catch up. Of course, if the camera makers would stop inventing new features, they could keep the Raw-file contents the same, and easy to translate/convert ...
First, it's not nonsense, there are piles of raw converters other than Adobe's that don't yet support the file format. I happen to use and love ID and perhaps Brian got ahold of a raw file early on, or from a beta tester, don't know. Point is, Brian and Adobe and everyone else has to get a file to decode and support. That shouldn’t be necessary! Clearly it isn't with JPEG. 2nd, Brian and everyone else has to spend time and money updating their products. It dilutes their productivity working on other items we end users need. Even if it took Brian 10 minutes to decode the new file, it's far, far more than 10 minutes total work to test, build installers, upload and inform the community etc. So yes, it totally IS the camera makers falut, they could easily produce a raw file that didn't need any of this work to support the new raw. Or be open to send a raw to anyone who needs it early to support their raw converters before the camera ships. The other software makers shouldn’t have to catch up, that's the point. Nikon, Canon and all the companies that continue to make differing raw formats for each camera are the cause of the need to catch up, that's the only way I can see it and the reason why the newest cameras that spit out a JPEG (of which many of us don't want) have zero issues the minute the camera ships.
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 07:00:51 pm »

Adobe released ACR 8.6rc today with D810 support.

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2014/07/camera-raw-8-4-rc-and-dng-converter-8-4-rc-now-available-on-adobe-labs.html

I'm sure Lightroom will be along soon.

But I want/need C1!
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digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2014, 07:03:46 pm »

Adobe released ACR 8.6rc today with D810 support.
There you go Bart!

Funny I can't find an update to the DNG converter. I don't think we'll see an LR update that soon so hopefully the DNG converter is next for release. Adobe typically releases the two at the same time.
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 07:08:04 pm »

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digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 07:14:37 pm »

Thanks Bob, got it!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 07:18:28 pm »

Since the camera shipped yesterday, knowing the typical software release cycles, I would say that it seems pretty likely that Nikon did collaborate with Adobe to ensure early support of the D810?

Cheers,
Bernard

digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 07:20:44 pm »

Since the camera shipped yesterday, knowing the typical software release cycles, I would say that it seems pretty likely that Nikon did collaborate with Adobe to ensure early support of the D810?
Either that or someone with a beta unit seeded Adobe with a raw file (it's happened in the past but my lips are sealed). That's all Thomas needs, one stinkin raw file.

On the other hand, I'd sure like to think what you are suggesting is the case. That would bode well for Nikon (are you listening Canon?).
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 09:00:17 pm »

Either that or someone with a beta unit seeded Adobe with a raw file (it's happened in the past but my lips are sealed).

Yes, this is indeed a possibility as well.

But I would think that Nikon has realized by now that Adobe has de facto a high market share in raw conversion and that getting supported quickly is in their best advantage and in the advantage of Nikon's customers.

Especially now that they have given up on trying to make money selling raw conversion software.

My view is that they think they owe their customer to given them the possibility to get in raw the exact conversion Nikon thinks is right, which is why they continue to to provide a version of Capture. But it doesn't mean they don't know that many people will decide to use another tool.

I am a bit surprised to see you write that Canon doesn't work more closely with Adobe. I have always felt that Adobe's raw converters were designed with Canon bodies as a reference (in terms of colors and rendering).

Cheers,
Bernard

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 09:09:44 pm »

I am a bit surprised to see you write that Canon doesn't work more closely with Adobe.
I have no evidence of any such support one way or the other by Canon, do you?
Let's hope this is a new behavior from all the camera companies, short of just making a stinkin standard raw format per company (giving up any hope of a universal raw from the camera). If the raw converters companies like Adobe and Iridient can get access to the raws this early, maybe all my bitching about these camera companies will finely cease. 8)
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Vladimirovich

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 09:59:56 pm »

Since the camera shipped yesterday, knowing the typical software release cycles, I would say that it seems pretty likely that Nikon did collaborate with Adobe to ensure early support of the D810?

or alternatively the FUD by some people about huge, huge differences in raw formats for each new camera model from the same manufacturer is just FUD :-)... which it is
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digitaldog

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 10:02:14 pm »

or alternatively the FUD by some people about huge, huge differences in raw formats for each new camera model from the same manufacturer is just FUD :-)... which it is

Yup, it's FUD, no there are obviously differences. The differences are unnecessary and someone has to work to update all raw converters to use them.
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fdisilvestro

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 10:31:24 pm »

There are minor differences, starting by a reverse Byte Order from MM to II (it's in the header) to a few changes in the offsets. I was able to open the NEF available from Imaging Resource in RawDigger and RawTherapee by editing the camera model (to D800E) using a hex editor.

This trick has some drawbacks, as it seems to stripe a few pixels (the image shows 7334*4926) but otherwise is workable

Another thing is that apparently the black point offset is not substracted from the raw values (it is around 600), but I cannot confirm this until the D810 is properly supported.  The WB preconditioning is still present.

The attached images shows:

a) the histogram from Rawdiggerstarting around value 600 and shows the effect of the WB preconditioning (normal for NEFs)

b) crop from the imaging resource NEF at 64ISO processed in RawTherapee with amaze demosaicing and no sharpening
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 12:45:19 am by FranciscoDisilvestro »
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Vladimirovich

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Re: D810 support?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 11:33:50 pm »

Yup, it's FUD, no there are obviously differences.

try to find the differences in the format between D800 and D800e and D810 in dcraw code and show us :-)

PS: http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/dcraw.c
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