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Author Topic: Nikon has its Mark III  (Read 31293 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2014, 08:11:36 pm »

This is my question also to Bernard or anyone who can test it. With Canon 5D's you can tether with USB to a PC and 'live view' with HDMI to an external monitor simultaneously, you cannot with a D800.

Sorry, I will probably not be able to test that until I get my D810 and that may not be until early August. I am sure others will get theirs long before mine.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alistair

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2014, 12:50:59 am »

Bernard,
 When you hit live view is it instantly on? Also, how long is the "Black period" after taking an image. Seems like 20-30 minutes on the d800(closer to 1.5 secs) but thats a lot when shooting people.
Thanks

Rogan, my understanding is that the reason for this "Black period"  is that the D800/e does not use the camera buffer when LV is being used. Rather, it writes straight to the memory card and we have to wait until that process is finished to make the next shot (unlike non-LV shooting where the data is offloaded from the sensor immediately to be temporarily stored in the camera's buffer to be written to the card at the it's leisure making the sensor ready immediately to receive the next shot). So unless you are using the fastest of memory cards it can seem very slow in comparison to non-LV shooting.

I would be very surprised if they have changed this arrangement on the D810 (but of course I do get surprised from time to time!). 
Regards, Alistair
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Alistair

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2014, 09:13:29 pm »

Some full size samples have been uploaded by Nikon:

http://www.nikon-asia.com/en_Asia/product/digital-slr-cameras/d810#gallery

Taking into the count the fact that they were probably converted with Nikon Capture XXX and the typical slightly painterly rendering of small details/sharpening, I find these samples pretty impressive.

When converted with Capture One or Raw Developper, combined with the best lenses such as the Otus, this should deliver a file significantly superior to that of the D800.

This one in particular shows things I have personally never seen in a DSLR file, even the D800E.

http://www.nikon-asia.com/tmp/Asia/4016499630/3857477713/365508689/3015334490/1054978028/4291728192/4044060355/779504016.jpg

This is shot with a 24mm lenses whose peak resolution is lower than that of the best glass, but still, the combination of detail, lack of artifacts and lack of noise is pretty impressive in absolute terms and even more so for a 13 seconds exposure.

What do you guys think?

It is starting to look like Nikon may have been better off called this a D900... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 12:41:11 am by BernardLanguillier »
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muntanela

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2014, 01:33:30 am »

I don't see anything particularly impressive in that photo, but I'm sure that the file quality of the new camera is better than that of the old... (Monsieur de La Palice and the Battle of Pavia ...)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 01:35:11 am by muntanela »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2014, 03:36:15 am »

I don't see anything particularly impressive in that photo, but I'm sure that the file quality of the new camera is better than that of the old... (Monsieur de La Palice and the Battle of Pavia ...)

Cool, you are not easily impressed. ;)

I have shot similar images from roughly the same location in Tokyo with a variety of cameras (including a Mamiya ZD without AA filter) and lenses typically superior to the 24mm used here... and none of these were close to having this level of fine detail rendering on a pixel per pixel basis.

Now it does of course not make much sense to shoot such a scene as one single shot when stitching could very easily multiply the level of details by 3 or 4, but as a sensor test, I am personally impressed.

Cheers,
Bernard

MrSmith

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2014, 04:43:40 am »

it looks o.k in the centre, nothing special in the corners. Iím not seeing anything that makes me go WOW  :-\
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2014, 05:23:45 am »

He he he, it must be my eyes then. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

kers

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2014, 06:15:02 am »

it looks o.k in the centre, nothing special in the corners. Iím not seeing anything that makes me go WOW  :-\

I agree to some point: it is the 24mm 1,4 lens used at d5.6   - it is a very good lens but it needs d8 for the corners...( and its made to use wide open)
Also in this image i see the ugly noise reduction/ jpeg blurring - so we loose all the nice details.
I opened the file in Photoshop and the dynamic range is impressive.
Still I would have liked it if they provided a sharp NEF for download made with the 85mm at 64 asa...
For somebody like me with a d800E i do not see any reason to upgrade with these kind of samples
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2014, 09:59:21 pm »

Comparison now available here, I believe done on jpg for now. Let the pixel peeping start! :)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

The D810 seems visbily sharper than both the D800E and D800 on these comparisons. I would say that the gap between D810 and D800E is clearly larger than the gap between D800E and D800.

There is also a bit more moire in the D810 image in the sticker of the right most bottle although the pattern is so fine it's hardly visible.

The DP2 quattro seems a bit sharper than the D810 still, although it does only have 19mp, but I am not sure what lens was used on the Nikon.

It looks like I may have the opportunity to check all that myself this weekend. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 08:33:26 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Theodoros

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2014, 02:52:28 pm »

Red colour is much improved on the D810... Sadly HL DR extension holds up clearly better with the "E" file... There also seems to be some visible colour noise improvement at 6400 Iso, but it is clearly accompanied with serious detail loss... I think I'll stick with the "E" and the DF...
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 03:01:06 pm by Theodoros »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2014, 05:06:38 pm »

Red colour is much improved on the D810... Sadly HL DR extension holds up clearly better with the "E" file... There also seems to be some visible colour noise improvement at 6400 Iso, but it is clearly accompanied with serious detail loss... I think I'll stick with the "E" and the DF...

Sticking to the D800E is a very reasonable option, but how are you able to assess highlight extension looking at a jpg file?

That is of course if we forget for a second that highlight extension doesn't exist in the first place with linear digital sensors. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Theodoros

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #51 on: July 17, 2014, 06:11:57 pm »

Sticking to the D800E is a very reasonable option, but how are you able to assess highlight extension looking at a jpg file?

That is of course if we forget for a second that highlight extension doesn't exist in the first place with linear digital sensors. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Highlight extension is different to HL DR... HL DR does exist, it's valued by the exposure required for it to clip up to an unrecoverable level... A JPG file, if it is the outcome of an unprocessed Raw, is a good hint for the behaviour of a sensor if HLs clip on one sensor while hold up on another for the same exposure... "Linearity" of modern sensors is also questionable... None knows how makers "filter" (in the A/D conversion) the output voltage from the sensor transistors... we presume it's linear, but ...is it?  :-X
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #52 on: July 17, 2014, 06:25:17 pm »

Highlight extension is different to HL DR... HL DR does exist, it's valued by the exposure required for it to clip up to an unrecoverable level... A JPG file, if it is the outcome of an unprocessed Raw, is a good hint for the behaviour of a sensor if HLs clip on one sensor while hold up on another for the same exposure... "Linearity" of modern sensors is also questionable... None knows how makers "filter" (in the A/D conversion) the output voltage from the sensor transistors... we presume it's linear, but ...is it?  :-X

There is for sure a limit to the amount of illumination a sensor can absorb before saturating (is it called well saturation?), but:
- there is absolutely no way to measure this looking at the 255 discrete values cooked into a jpg file. The only aspect you can assess is the exposure relative to this threshold, meaning that you can at best get some visibility about the way the ISO value was set relative to the saturation threshold mixed with the curve that was applied by the jpg conversion engine,
- linearity has been proven time and again,
- none of that determines the range of illuminations between which the sensor is able to capture useful imaging information, which is called the dynamic range.

So, would it only be because the R in DR is range, highlight DR does, by definition, not exist.

But who am I to object if your equipment purchase strategies are set based on jpg analysis of highlight DR. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 07:08:08 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Theodoros

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2014, 07:19:34 pm »



But who am I to object if your equipment purchase strategies are set based on jpg analysis of highlight DR. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
You brought it up...  8) Another thing, how has the linearity of sensors output "proven"? What has been proven is that what we get is linear, there is no way for one to judge if it is linear or linearised....
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 05:30:38 am by Theodoros »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2014, 06:41:02 am »

Another thing, how has the linearity of sensors output "proven"? What has been proven is that what we get is linear, there is no way for one to judge if it is linear or linearised....

Hi,

Shot noise analysis will prove (within statistical limitations) whether signal and noise have an 'exact' Sqrt() relationship (as expected for a Poisson distribution), which they apparently do for those cases I and others have studied.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2014, 06:51:25 am »

Just got my D810.

I am glad to report that with 2 fast media in back up mode the black out time shooting raw in live view is now very short (perhaps 1/2 sec), which will make it possible to shoot stitches while staying in live view.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2014, 07:10:48 am »

Just got my D810.

I am glad to report that with 2 fast media in back up mode the black out time shooting raw in live view is now very short (perhaps 1/2 sec), which will make it possible to shoot stitches while staying in live view.

Good news, Bernard.

Looking forward to your findings, since you can compare with the previous version.

Cheers,
Bart
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2014, 07:33:17 am »

Looking forward to your findings, since you can compare with the previous version.

A lot has been written already.

In terms of image quality a comparison will have to wait till support in C1 Pro.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rory

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2014, 01:24:40 pm »

In terms of image quality a comparison will have to wait till support in C1 Pro.

Latest ACR RC has support...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Nikon has its Mark III
« Reply #59 on: July 18, 2014, 05:05:48 pm »

Latest ACR RC has support...

I know, but I am not familiar with ACR/Lightroom conversions.

Cheers,
Bernard
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