Pentax 645Z

[Theodoros]

If your friend likes shooting with the Pentax more than with his 500 series, and will not miss the features (1/500th flash sync, vertical shooting without turning camera, waist level viewfinder, robust professional tethering, Capture One support, etc) then he should absolutely go with the Pentax. If he wants to use his 500 series body and can justify the cost of the IQ250 (or an IQ160 which would bring many, but not all the advantages of the IQ250, and also have a larger sensor and slightly higher resolution) then he might want to do that.

The cost is a very important part of the equation, but it's just one part of the equation. You can't put a Pentax on the back of a 500 series and the 500 series doesn't have the autofocus of a Pentax. They are very very very different systems - both with advantages and disadvantages.

That's why I suggested that it would be sensible for Pentax to make a "Z" MFDB along with the camera... At 80% of the camera price it could mean no excuse for buying other... It could actually "finish" competition off the map...

[Theodoros]

Hi,

Does Pentax even offer a dealer pricing and support structure?

Cheers,
Bart

Hi Bart, the question IMO should be... "do they need one"? At the price they may use the service centres that they use for their current cameras and pro customers can buy double (again for the price) to have the support difference they may require "covered"...

[BJL]

For Pentax, if adding an MFDB to their system currently, it would mean nothing against the "Z" sales (they would sell the same amount of cameras),

You have completely overlooked my headline point, which is that offering a back for other bodies could cause Pentax to lose some highly profitable lens sales.  More so since the Pentax 645 system has no body on which such a back could be used, so unlike Phase One or Sinar backs, and even more so Hasselblad backs, a Pentax back would be used solely with bodies and lenses from other makers.  Remember that Kodak (and Leaf and Imacon and Phase One) eventually abandoned a business model without bodies, even with their backs already developed and in production: the situation would be worse for Pentax which would have some R&D expenses to launch a back, and would have to fight the likely lock-in efforts of the companies making DMF bodies, like proprietary back-to-body communication.


One possible alternative is that Ricoh could also invest in a more modular Pentax 645 body, one that accepts separate backs. But Pentax has never taken that approach with its 645 system, and I doubt that it would be seen as profitable now by the Ricoh management.  (There would be the appeal of being able to use either a film or a digital back, but dampened by the format sizes being so different, so that different viewfinders would be highly desirable, and Pentax has also never had interchangeable viewfinders, so adding that option would be yet another R&D expense.)

[Theodoros]

You have completely overlooked my headline point, which is that offering a back for other bodies could cause Pentax to lose some highly profitable lens sales.  More so since the Pentax 645 system has no body on which such a back could be used, so unlike Phase One or Sinar backs, and even more so Hasselblad backs, a Pentax back would be used solely with bodies and lenses from other makers.  Remember that Kodak (and Leaf and Imacon and Phase One) eventually abandoned a business model without bodies, even with their backs already developed and in production: the situation would be worse for Pentax which would have some R&D expenses to launch a back, and would have to fight the likely lock-in efforts of the companies making DMF bodies, like proprietary back-to-body communication.


One possible alternative is that Ricoh could also invest in a more modular Pentax 645 body, one that accepts separate backs. But Pentax has never taken that approach with its 645 system, and I doubt that it would be seen as profitable now by the Ricoh management.  (There would be the appeal of being able to use either a film or a digital back, but dampened by the format sizes being so different, so that different viewfinders would be highly desirable, and Pentax has also never had interchangeable viewfinders, so adding that option would be yet another R&D expense.)

You have completely overlooked that I've answered all the above... but you "cropped" my reply.

[KevinA]

I am one of those fools, selling off most of my Canon equipment and moving to the 800 series Nikon's.  Never looked back, as the 800 gave me what Canon can't, so for me it was easily justifiable.  It's an individual decision for each photographer and I agree changing back again would make no sense as I really can't see ever needing more than I have with the 800 series. 

Waiting on Canon to follow up their long used 20-21MP lineup to me may be the fools game. 

Nikon, Pentax, Sony, all use Sony chips, and now so do Phase One and Hassi.  Canon still fabs their own chips, and no doubt have had some trouble getting to the same level of DR of the 2012 Sony, 2013 Sony and now 2014 Sony Chips.  Sure if they come out with a Foveon type chip, it may revolutionize everything again, however no one has yet to make one of these that performs very well in low light or can give the same range of DR of a single image that the Sony chips can.  Canon is now getting surpassed even in video, with the new A7s now coming soon.  Only Canon knows whats coming next and they are not talking for sure. 

Competition is great, as it helps to keep prices down, and I would love to see Canon get a new chip set out, and hopefully they might in Sept at Photokina.  However it still may not be available till 2015. 

Paul

Some of us can remember when Nikon had very little to offer the digital photographer, it switches around. Canon fabricating their own sensor is a plus for Canon. Nikon could find themselves over a Sony shaped barrel, Sony are getting very aggressive, Nikon have flown the Sony flag very well for them.
I have some good L lenses, they could fit the A7r if I needed. I can see the temptation in changing to Nikon, it will be  swings and round-a-bouts again.

[BJL]

You have completely overlooked that I've answered all the above... but you "cropped" my reply.

Where in your reply do you say anything about the effect of lost lens sales?

[Paul2660]

Hi,

Does Pentax even offer a dealer pricing and support structure?

Cheers,
Bart

Capture Integration, last time I checked, was U.S. dealer for the 645D, not sure if they will pick up the 645Z.   I am not sure how they handled in warranty repairs, as I thought the only repair facility for the 645D was in Japan. 

Paul

[Theodoros]

Where in your reply do you say anything about the effect of lost lens sales?

What cost lens sales if one sells the lenses with the "Z" as he currently does? It's additional back sales not sales instead of...

[KevinA]

Capture Integration, last time I checked, was U.S. dealer for the 645D, not sure if they will pick up the 645Z.   I am not sure how they handled in warranty repairs, as I thought the only repair facility for the 645D was in Japan. 

Paul

You could buy two Pentax and still have change compared to either the Phaseone or the Hasselblad.
The Pentax is asking some difficult questions of Phase and Hasselblad and the public will not be handed off with an answer like "the Lord moves in mysterious ways" clap trap.

[MrSmith]

It's only 14 bit though so not a serious contender.

[BJL]

What cost lens sales if one sells the lenses with the "Z" as he currently does? It's additional back sales not sales instead of...

I was referring to this proposal

I wonder what sales Pentax would achieve if they decided to sell an MFDB specified like the "Z" for all Contax, Mamiya, H1/2/2F/4X, V and the like...

which would involve selling to people using lenses for Contax, Mamiya, Hasselblad bodies instead of using Pentax lenses on a Pentax 645Z body.  The point is that adding the MDDB options would cause some customers to change from "buy 645Z + lenses" to "buy Pentax MFDB and use it with non-Pentax body and lenses".  The balance between increased back sales vs lost lens sales has to be considered.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Like the IQ250…

Best regards
Erik

It's only 14 bit though so not a serious contender.

[MrSmith]

Sorry forgot this :   

[eronald]

Sorry forgot this :   

Erik has grown a sense of humor, it seems, and has no more need of yellow pills

Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I guess that anyone can make an MFDB for a dumb camera, like the Hasselblad V-series or technical cameras. Integration with Phase One cameras or Hasselblad H-series may have issues with intellectual property.

Best regards
Erik

[BJL]

Sorry forgot this :   

I'm glad I counted to ten before taking bait!

[Theodoros]

I was referring to this proposalwhich would involve selling to people using lenses for Contax, Mamiya, Hasselblad bodies instead of using Pentax lenses on a Pentax 645Z body.  The point is that adding the MDDB options would cause some customers to change from "buy 645Z + lenses" to "buy Pentax MFDB and use it with non-Pentax body and lenses".  The balance between increased back sales vs lost lens sales has to be considered.

You really don't read what you quote on... don't you?  I've even proposed that they could make more versions of their 25mm lens for other brands like Contax... but you just "cropped" the sentence, replied on the remaining, although the answer was already on what you thrower away... Amazing! 

[Gel]

1st Generation (cropped) CMOS vs Mature 'full sized' CCDs.

That's my stumbling block. First world problems and all.

[Theodoros]

Hi,

I guess that anyone can make an MFDB for a dumb camera, like the Hasselblad V-series or technical cameras. Integration with Phase One cameras or Hasselblad H-series may have issues with intellectual property.

Best regards
Erik

Sinar (Leica now) makes adapters to make their own backs fully compatible with both  P1 and H cameras... Contax fit backs are of high demand and all MFDB makers make them... I suspect that Rollei owners would find much interest to a new back that would provide a cheap solution for their cameras... I would suggest the use of adapters like Sinar does or Imacon/CF ixpress used to do.

[Joe Towner]

I'll post up what I personally experienced with the IQ250 (amazing) a little later.  Pentax is going to have a bit of fun in the near future, lots of press and photogs looking to try their product.  I hope LensRentals picks up more of the 645 lenses and the Z, as they are the only Pentax MF rental shop I know of.

Unless there's a stockpile of gear waiting for this initial rush, I fear Pentax will have too much of a good thing.  Manufacturing these items isn't a high volume business model, so expect to wait a while as they get their process up to speed.  Toss in any service issues, and you could have a lot of pissed off people.  Yes, now you can get a body with 3 lenses for $15-$18k, but that service and support that you've experienced with local dealers or with Steve or Doug isn't currently there (spares, experience, loaner gear, etc).  It will take some time, and in that time I expect even more new products.

It is a good, but expensive time to be a photographer.