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Author Topic: resolving Epson head clog permanently  (Read 12027 times)

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 05:16:35 pm »

Yes it is, but the 7900 is worth less so repairing one makes less sense.  You wait around long enough you see 7900s for sale on specials that make repairing one less sensible.  What's the most important part on an Epson Stylus Pro with an X900 head in it?  ...the warranty.  So when you measure the warranty (and ink) benefits of buying new, repairing for a little less and being left with no warranty doesn't pay in my book.  You don't really own an X900, you lease it (with an extended warranty) for three years.  Once that warranty expires your lease is up, you are now printing on borrowed time.  Buy a sledge hammer, find a cliff - when the head "clogs" you'll know what to do.

TSJ1927

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 09:34:37 pm »

To my wonder, if you have problem with say, Phase One and mention it here, it takes less than an hour someone from them reply and ready to help either from PhaseOne dealers or the company but there are millions of thread hear complaining about Epson, to my knowledge, never, neither from Epson nor any dealer/distributor has been here to help or reply, as if they know very well that there is no help; it is as it is!

+1 on that comment.  I have had (2) E 9600's, a 4000 and now an 11880.  The 4000 died a month after the 1 yr. warranty.  The 9600 were workhorses, and the 11880 is now 5yrs old and is now requiring lots of head cleanings & constant monitoring of heads throughout the printing day.
I think it maybe on the last leg.  I bought an IPF 8300 2 years ago.  I'll never return to the Epson line of printers.  About Canon.....it just works without all the fuss!
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Paul2660

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2014, 10:24:58 pm »

They all clog, it's just that Canon seems to have a better way of handling it.  They map out the clogs until the head needs to be replaced and then "wow" they allow the end user to replace the head, that's an idea. 

Following all the threads, and the epic written by Eric, I believe that a lot of the problems with Epson are not clogs, but instead issues with the ink delivery system, that develop over time.  I also believe that the printer may be very susceptible to brown outs, or electric surges, which in turn may damage the pizeo head on the Epson 9900 family.  Either the head or the channels that deliver the ink to the head.   I also believe that it's possible that too many cleanings may damage the head over time.  The fact that Epson has the CL-1 through CL4 levels for Maintenance mode only implies to me that they know this and are going to allow the repair tech a bit more leeway on number of cleanings. From the main LCD menu for pairs cleanings, you only get 2 levels, low and high.   

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2014, 04:55:05 am »

They all clog, it's just that Canon seems to have a better way of handling it.  They map out the clogs until the head needs to be replaced and then "wow" they allow the end user to replace the head, that's an idea.  

As in case of SPx900 "terminal clog" theory, I don't think Canon print head really clogs that bad that it's remapping nozzles that can't be cleaned. I suppose it's remapping clogged nozzles while printing, and then it cleans them. Canon print head virtually never clogs, it just dies - it's suddenly loosing a half or a whole channel, and asks for a replacement. It looks like electric failure rather than clog, just like in case of Epson's "terminal clog" that's not really a clog at all. The difference is that Canon print head is user replaceable and doesn't cost a fortune.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 04:57:20 am by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

alifatemi

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2014, 06:58:42 am »

As in case of SPx900 "terminal clog" theory, I don't think Canon print head really clogs that bad that it's remapping nozzles that can't be cleaned. I suppose it's remapping clogged nozzles while printing, and then it cleans them. Canon print head virtually never clogs, it just dies - it's suddenly loosing a half or a whole channel, and asks for a replacement. It looks like electric failure rather than clog, just like in case of Epson's "terminal clog" that's not really a clog at all. The difference is that Canon print head is user replaceable and doesn't cost a fortune.

And if one channel stops working, shall you change just that channel or the whole head? How much $?
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Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2014, 08:55:02 am »

There are 2 x 6channel heads, 400$ each
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2014, 12:44:14 pm »

HP as well, one head for each color - user replaceable, individually, @$70 per head. 

Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2014, 12:51:56 pm »

HP as well, one head for each color - user replaceable, individually, @$70 per head. 

...one head for each a pair of colours (there's six heads)
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

alifatemi

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2014, 01:57:54 pm »

So it is 6x$400=$2400 for total heads?
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Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2014, 02:07:24 pm »

So it is 6x$400=$2400 for total heads?

There are 2x400$ heads in Canon iPF (6 channels per head), and 6x70$ heads in HP Z3200 (2 channels per head)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 02:25:39 pm by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

Eric Gulbransen

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2014, 02:12:21 pm »

Thanks for the clarity Czornyj

alifatemi

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2014, 03:27:48 pm »

There are 2x400$ heads in Canon iPF (6 channels per head), and 6x70$ heads in HP Z3200 (2 channels per head)

And how long do these heads work approx. before you need to change them in normal conditions?
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2014, 03:37:06 pm »

I've had my Z3100 for 7 years of moderate use. Just starting to replace print heads for the 2nd time. I have a friend with an ipf 8200, who has replace 4 print head modules in the last 3 years. I understand Canon now warranties their print heads to last at least 1 year. The Canon print head can be used in either channel, so keeping a spare is advisable to minimize down time.

Either alternative sure beats the cost of replacing an Epson print head!
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Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2014, 05:12:03 pm »

And how long do these heads work approx. before you need to change them in normal conditions?

In case of Canon there's no rule. They can last forever, or die pretty soon. If you print 24/7, Canon print heads can potentially last longer than HP, as there's more nozzles per channel - 2560 nozzles in iPF vs 1056 in HPZ. If you don't print frequently, it's a lottery.
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2014, 05:57:30 pm »

ipf 03 heads are $350 through alibaba - genuine Canon.
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tastar

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2014, 07:11:36 pm »

OK, here goes. I posted this response to a similar thread a few months ago:

"We are a small Epson dealer in Pittsburgh, PA - we generally sell to end-users within our geographic area. I won't share total sales stats, but I will say that as far as I know from our experiences with our customers, we have had less than a 5 percent print head failure rate with the 79/ 9900 series printers that we have sold (in and out of warranty). One of them was one of our demo units (about 2 1/2 years ago) - it was used very infrequently, and the other was with a customer's printer* - the printer's head was damaged from a repeated head crash on a torn piece of heavy weight paper (the printer was running unattended)."

Threads like this really bother me - I talked to my Epson sales rep who just returned from a sales meeting in California. One of the topics that they covered was the reliability of the printers - and, based on their service records, they have about a 3 percent failure rate due to manufacturing problems. Epson's overall experience very closely matches our experience with these printers.

There are environmental conditions that will definitely cause problems, and there are operator errors that will cause problems as well. No specifics were given for the conditions under which this printer operated. It could have been abused (it definitely was at the end of the video), it could have been in a non-recommended environment, it could have been left to sit for long periods without recommended maintenance, or the problem could have been as simple as a bad capping station or a bad damper.

And, I guess that this is a problem with the internet in general, people who may or may not know what they are talking about become experts. And, people who may or may not realize this listen to their opinions and follow their advice. And, based on our knowledge and experience, I would be very reluctant to listen to a lot of the advice presented in this thread.

Tony

*our customer who had the 9900 with the head crash sold his printer for $1,000.00. Maybe the guy who smashed his printer could have done the same and donated the $1,000 to a charity. I guess that the video wouldn't have been as entertaining...

 
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Some Guy

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2014, 08:18:35 pm »

....

And, I guess that this is a problem with the internet in general, people who may or may not know what they are talking about become experts. And, people who may or may not realize this listen to their opinions and follow their advice. And, based on our knowledge and experience, I would be very reluctant to listen to a lot of the advice presented in this thread.

Tony

*our customer who had the 9900 with the head crash sold his printer for $1,000.00. Maybe the guy who smashed his printer could have done the same and donated the $1,000 to a charity. I guess that the video wouldn't have been as entertaining...


Doesn't take "an expert" to find out ones head is plugged with a nozzle check.  Even funky colored prints midway down a page due to inking issues of the heads or lines is another inexcusable matter.  How to fix it is another issue, and can be quite costly to the point it is a disposable printer.

Actually, without the internet and forums like this, these companies might end up pushing more crap on the public and not standing behind them.  I find the information very beneficial to future purchases.  Epson's plug up.  No question.  Having to pay $1,800 every year to keep it running is ridiculous.  Canon got the right idea on user replaceable heads and HP on some units too.  Epson is still working the service lead and with not that much satisfaction either if you follow the feedback and read the problems with their products here:  http://www.customerservicescoreboard.com/Epson  Canon is doing far better with customer satisfaction on the same site than Epson, so Epson has a lot of catching-up work to do.

Hopefully, Epson comes to grips with their customer dissatisfaction and engineering behind the plugging issues before it is too late.  Dealers can say anything to sell them much like a used car dealer, albeit I wouldn't trust any of them if they say, "There is no problem with plugging heads.  It's only 3% according to the factory (Like I would believe them!) -- and the internet is full of lies too."  Really!?

More Youtube sledgehammer videos might just be what is needed too to wake them up.  They had the option to set it right prior to the hammer, but failed.  He proved "They do not care."

SG
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Paul2660

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2014, 08:38:06 pm »

OK, here goes. I posted this response to a similar thread a few months ago:

"We are a small Epson dealer in Pittsburgh, PA - we generally sell to end-users within our geographic area. I won't share total sales stats, but I will say that as far as I know from our experiences with our customers, we have had less than a 5 percent print head failure rate with the 79/ 9900 series printers that we have sold (in and out of warranty). One of them was one of our demo units (about 2 1/2 years ago) - it was used very infrequently, and the other was with a customer's printer* - the printer's head was damaged from a repeated head crash on a torn piece of heavy weight paper (the printer was running unattended)."

Threads like this really bother me - I talked to my Epson sales rep who just returned from a sales meeting in California. One of the topics that they covered was the reliability of the printers - and, based on their service records, they have about a 3 percent failure rate due to manufacturing problems. Epson's overall experience very closely matches our experience with these printers.

There are environmental conditions that will definitely cause problems, and there are operator errors that will cause problems as well. No specifics were given for the conditions under which this printer operated. It could have been abused (it definitely was at the end of the video), it could have been in a non-recommended environment, it could have been left to sit for long periods without recommended maintenance, or the problem could have been as simple as a bad capping station or a bad damper.

And, I guess that this is a problem with the internet in general, people who may or may not know what they are talking about become experts. And, people who may or may not realize this listen to their opinions and follow their advice. And, based on our knowledge and experience, I would be very reluctant to listen to a lot of the advice presented in this thread.

Tony

*our customer who had the 9900 with the head crash sold his printer for $1,000.00. Maybe the guy who smashed his printer could have done the same and donated the $1,000 to a charity. I guess that the video wouldn't have been as entertaining...

 


I have no doubt you feel that Epson has a high end product, you are a dealer.  However I do take considerable exception to your post that implies most of the information on the internet about the problems with the 9900 family are not correct. 

I have worked with Epson's now for over 10 years, wides for 7 of those years.  I own a 9900 and it has not been a easy printer to work with.  I fully understand the environmental conditions that can impact these printers.  I also believe that the post that was started by Eric G. about the 7900 has more information about the actual 9900 family than a Epson service manual. 

To be honest, no printer, be it Epson, HP, Canon etc. should make a perfect print, then without changing anything else on the next print, totally block on color.  This is not a clog, it's a ink system delivery failure.  This has happened on my 9900 with Orange and Green, (do a search as this is this the most common type of this issue), LK, PK, MK and now Cyan.  I use this printer daily in my work.  I work with it in both matte and PK insets, so both sides are worked. 

Net, the head itself is very durable, however the ink delivery system, either the channels or or the pizeo heads themselves can be damaged.  The damage appears as a clog and users then possibly do more damage in trying to un-clog the printer with excessive cleanings. 

It's good that your Epson salesman told you that these printers are great, and don't have problems.  I would have been surprised if they didn't.   Epson's failure rate I am sure is being measured for the 1 year warranty only.  Most people using these printers are assuming a life of at least 4 to 5 years.   

As for the internet and knowledge, I have learned much much more about how to get around problems with the 9900 family from the internet than trying to call Epson and getting someone on the phone who doesn't even know that the 9900 is a 44 inch printer.  There are a lot of accomplished printers and photographers that are members here who have thousands of hours of experience working with the 9900 family of printers.   

If you compare the number of issues around clogs with working running printers in the 9900 family to the older 9880/9800/9600 family I think you will find that the heads in the the older printers were much more reliable, were much easier to replace and to be totally honest, printed about 95% as good as the 9900 family. 

Paul Caldwell


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Paul Caldwell
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Czornyj

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2014, 04:11:50 am »

If I had problematic x900 that's exactly what I'd wanted to hear to grab my sledgehammer (or something more destructive) - a principled opinion suggesting that the problem exists solely between printer and chair. I'm really glad that I quit using Epson SP since x880 (which also had given me a hard time).

OK, here goes. I posted this response to a similar thread a few months ago:

"We are a small Epson dealer in Pittsburgh, PA - we generally sell to end-users within our geographic area. I won't share total sales stats, but I will say that as far as I know from our experiences with our customers, we have had less than a 5 percent print head failure rate with the 79/ 9900 series printers that we have sold (in and out of warranty). One of them was one of our demo units (about 2 1/2 years ago) - it was used very infrequently, and the other was with a customer's printer* - the printer's head was damaged from a repeated head crash on a torn piece of heavy weight paper (the printer was running unattended)."

Threads like this really bother me - I talked to my Epson sales rep who just returned from a sales meeting in California. One of the topics that they covered was the reliability of the printers - and, based on their service records, they have about a 3 percent failure rate due to manufacturing problems. Epson's overall experience very closely matches our experience with these printers.

There are environmental conditions that will definitely cause problems, and there are operator errors that will cause problems as well. No specifics were given for the conditions under which this printer operated. It could have been abused (it definitely was at the end of the video), it could have been in a non-recommended environment, it could have been left to sit for long periods without recommended maintenance, or the problem could have been as simple as a bad capping station or a bad damper.

And, I guess that this is a problem with the internet in general, people who may or may not know what they are talking about become experts. And, people who may or may not realize this listen to their opinions and follow their advice. And, based on our knowledge and experience, I would be very reluctant to listen to a lot of the advice presented in this thread.

Tony

*our customer who had the 9900 with the head crash sold his printer for $1,000.00. Maybe the guy who smashed his printer could have done the same and donated the $1,000 to a charity. I guess that the video wouldn't have been as entertaining...

  

« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 04:17:52 am by Czornyj »
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: resolving Epson head clog permanently
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2014, 12:01:23 am »

Does anyone know if nozzle/print head clogs are covered under the Epson Warranty? Or do they try and claim "user error" or "improper maintenance" in an attempt to bill you either for parts or labour? It would appear to me that Extended warranty for Epson is cheap (+2yr = $1500) and necessary compared to Canon (+2yr = $2400+), but if the most common issue among printers involves print heads, then you really wouldn't need the extended warranty on a canon since it has more "user" replaceable parts/solutions. Or is my thinking flawed?

« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:27:50 am by HKYcountry »
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