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Author Topic: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II  (Read 20304 times)

Manoli

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Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« on: March 03, 2014, 09:17:17 pm »

Michael,

Thanks for the follow up to Nick Devlin's hand-on review. The point you make about saving and recalling custom settings, I would hope could be addressed by Fuji in a future firmware update. They have enough custom setting 'registers' - it should be possible.

There is a feature though that I think is worth pointing out. The Fuji, at least both my X-E's, have four customisable buttons which can be assigned to a variety of options. Pressing and holding a button, brings up a list of all the customisable options from the menu, directly. No need to delve into the menu to change it's function.

Not a substitute for your main gripe, but nevertheless a useful feature and one I occasionally use when I'm out. On my cameras 'Fn2' is regularly assigned to varying settings depending on my mode of shooting: DR, AF mode, Photometry etc..,
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 09:21:00 pm by Manoli »
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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 10:29:40 pm »

Thanks for the follow up to Nick Devlin's hand-on review. The point you make about saving and recalling custom settings, I would hope could be addressed by Fuji in a future firmware update.
One of the reasons I have taken an interest in this camera as an addition to my bulkier kit is that Fuji seem to be pretty good on the firmware updating front. Particularly as they also improve the older models too.
Camera seems a bit flawed for me at moment but am curious to see how they will improve it via firmware.
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ndevlin

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 11:50:48 pm »


It's really a question of workstyle. For me, the Fuji is either for one-off moments where it doesn't matter what info is in the finder bc it's likely gone almost immediately after the first couple of frame, or more deliberate work where there's lots of time to fine-tune in image review.

That said, I would really like a better in EVF histogram, that stays live after exposure/focus lock.

Michael is working on converting me to the Olympus OM-D E-M1 fan club, but that tattoos are WAY too long :-) 

- N. 
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jjj

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 12:39:44 am »

Michael is working on converting me to the Olympus OM-D E-M1 fan club, but that tattoos are WAY too long :-) 
I really like that camera too, the size of camera plus a bunch of really good lenses is soooooo much smaller than my Canon gear and currently I'm leaning a bit more toward that than the X-T1. But yup clunky name indeed, EM1 or OMD1 would have done the trick nicely.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 01:48:47 am »

I had the chance to play with an X-T1 last Sunday together with my wife.

She is currently using a Nikon V2.

I told her I was considering upgrading the V2 to the X-T1 and asked her how she liked it.

Her answer was clear... "this is way too big"...  ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Ben Rubinstein

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 02:18:40 am »

I can see the point about lack of custom modes but no camera till the Canon 5D had them either, no Leica has ever had them and photos still got taken by the reviewer for decades and as a professional. Yes it's an omission but I honestly don't think it's that big.
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Manoli

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 05:34:45 am »

It's really a question of workstyle [...]
That said, I would really like a better in EVF histogram, that stays live after exposure/focus lock.

Agreed!
I'm using it with Leica-M lenses primarily.
-

A few comments regarding the posts above:

(1) It's strongly rumoured that the refresh rate of the X-T1 is coming to the older models, certainly the X-E2, not sure about the 1st generation. Hopefully that will include 'coloured' options for focus peaking.
(2) The big advantage of all the new CSC's is that you can mount a ton of legacy glass. The cost of the lenses is the 'gotcha'. They're good but expensive AND dedicated - Olympus even more so. A metabones/novoflex adapter and you can use any of your current Nikon/Canon (and other) lenses.
(3) I've also got the 35 and 18-55 zoom which offer another option for a light travel kit – particularly as I've found a mounting ring that allows me to mount both fujinon's back to back (Leica style) and wrap them in a protective sleeve. Add a body and you're good-to-go !
(4) Plus point – Fuji's implementation of auto-ISO. You can set a min/max ISO AND minimum shutter speed. Downside,  In manual and auto-ISO, exposure compensation is limited to +/- 2/3 of a stop.
(5) Personally, I'll find it impossible to go back to a camera that doesn't have live view AND focus peaking. The combination, for critical focus, my style of shooting and subject, is unbeatable. The camera is on manual focus permanently. If I switch to a Fujinon, all I've got to do is hit the [AF-on] button for immediate auto-focus.


« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:36:27 pm by Manoli »
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bcooter

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 06:33:37 am »

I really like that camera too, the size of camera plus a bunch of really good lenses is soooooo much smaller than my Canon gear and currently I'm leaning a bit more toward that than the X-T1. But yup clunky name indeed, EM1 or OMD1 would have done the trick nicely.

The negatives of the em-1 and micro 4/3 is just a legacy mindset from the days of having to have at least a full frame 35mm camera to produce an exceptional image.

The em-1 for stills hit's focus so fast and accurately, along with the stabilization makes up for 16 mpx. vs. 20 or even close to 30.  I know because I've shot it side by side with all my cameras.

The only problem is (other than it's lack of tethering which btw I'm never going to stop complaining about that), is when you change an lens and look down into the camera.  It's just a shock to see such a small frame.  Put a lens back on shoot and look at the results and you forget about that tiny sensor, but yes, it's a fright to see it in real life.

The other downside, at least for me is the wide variety of lenses.   Olympus primes are very good, but then you have the constant panasonic zooms, that are a little slow at 2.8 but very easy to use, then there is the original olympus 4/3 glass which is beautiful and comes at a high cost, the new Leica/Panasonic 1.2 autofocus lens at $1,200 a pop and last but not least are the voights .97 manual lenses.

Those last three lenses I'll use about 10 times a yea which probably isn't enough for the investment, except when you want that shoot through a wave of blur look, they are the only ticket to the show.

Still, go side by side with the fuji, the A7 Sony, any 20mpx or lower dslr and the omd always comes out good, sometimes a lot better.

Just don't look at the sensor.

IMO

BC
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Rob C

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 09:51:00 am »

The negatives of the em-1 and micro 4/3 is just a legacy mindset from the days of having to have at least a full frame 35mm camera to produce an exceptional image.

The em-1 for stills hit's focus so fast and accurately, along with the stabilization makes up for 16 mpx. vs. 20 or even close to 30.  I know because I've shot it side by side with all my cameras.

The only problem is (other than it's lack of tethering which btw I'm never going to stop complaining about that), is when you change an lens and look down into the camera.  It's just a shock to see such a small frame.  Put a lens back on shoot and look at the results and you forget about that tiny sensor, but yes, it's a fright to see it in real life.

The other downside, at least for me is the wide variety of lenses.   Olympus primes are very good, but then you have the constant panasonic zooms, that are a little slow at 2.8 but very easy to use, then there is the original olympus 4/3 glass which is beautiful and comes at a high cost, the new Leica/Panasonic 1.2 autofocus lens at $1,200 a pop and last but not least are the voights .97 manual lenses.

Those last three lenses I'll use about 10 times a yea which probably isn't enough for the investment, except when you want that shoot through a wave of blur look, they are the only ticket to the show.

Still, go side by side with the fuji, the A7 Sony, any 20mpx or lower dslr and the omd always comes out good, sometimes a lot better.

Just don't look at the sensor.

IMO

BC



Have you used it (EM-1) very much in rotten (low) light, with people? What about skin tones?

Rob C

Harald L

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 11:11:08 am »

Flock of geese is passing while shooting my girlfriend... "With the X-T1 you turn the dial to change the shutter speed to something fast, say 1/1500 sec. You then turn the aperture dial to something on the wide side, because you don't want to have to use too high an ISO. The metering mode needs to be changed from average to spot, and the drive mode from single frame to high speed with focus tracking. Finally, the ISO needs to be boosted, because of the high shutter speed, or maybe reset to Auto."

This is a great and every day's real life example, Michael. You've forgotten to change the lens ;-)

Harald
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armand

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 11:53:36 am »

Flock of geese is passing while shooting my girlfriend... "With the X-T1 you turn the dial to change the shutter speed to something fast, say 1/1500 sec. You then turn the aperture dial to something on the wide side, because you don't want to have to use too high an ISO. The metering mode needs to be changed from average to spot, and the drive mode from single frame to high speed with focus tracking. Finally, the ISO needs to be boosted, because of the high shutter speed, or maybe reset to Auto."

This is a great and every day's real life example, Michael. You've forgotten to change the lens ;-)

Harald

He already has a wide range zoom to cover for that

Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 12:10:43 pm »

Flock of geese is passing while shooting my girlfriend... "With the X-T1 you turn the dial to change the shutter speed to something fast, say 1/1500 sec. You then turn the aperture dial to something on the wide side, because you don't want to have to use too high an ISO. The metering mode needs to be changed from average to spot, and the drive mode from single frame to high speed with focus tracking. Finally, the ISO needs to be boosted, because of the high shutter speed, or maybe reset to Auto."

This is a great and every day's real life example, Michael. You've forgotten to change the lens ;-)

Harald

With respect, Michael is entirely concerned with the wrong thing here. Whether or not the shot of the geese works out, he'll have to deal with a woman scorned. Worse, scorned for geese.

On the other hand she (allegedly) snores...

Good points Michael. This emphasizes some of the advantages digital has brought in terms of being able to create such profiles. It does make me wonder how many people actually use them. I don't, but that's reflection on what and how I shoot. I also note that some other reviewers have observed this lack, but don't place much emphasis on it. I wonder if this is because most reviewers don't actually shoot much, or perhaps this is one of those things that is a feature, but not a real benefit to most photographers.

Anyway, as always, I appreciate 'real-world' reviews.

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Rob C

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 01:48:17 pm »

I think the example Michael posts is actually an illustration of one possible way of working; many years ago, however, they'd have advised Pelmanism...

My personal view is quite the opposite: don't allow yourself to be sidetracked by geese or anything else: stick with the main plan. Once you've completed that, then, and only then bother about flirting with new possibilities. If you dither about like a headless chicken (or goose), then you'll get nowhere over a very long period of time. That, of course, demands that you do have something in mind before you pick up the camera in the first place. Certainly, some obsessives may always carry a camera, but again, that's not me. Again, quite the opposite: I need a lot of stimulation to find it worth the inconvenience. Much like getting up in the morning before about nine, but there I have the added benefits of hunger and the need for my morning medications to offer encouragement. Any connection between hunger for food and hunger for images is a large stretch of semantic credibility; pretty in Statements but shallow on the ground. Or whilst still in bed. It was one of the things I hated about calendar shoots: early golden hour. Imagine Cannes early a.m. when the street cleaner trucks are working the Croisette, not a soul on the bits of beach... better in bed. Unless you really really need empty local sand.

IMHO.

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 03:14:49 pm by Rob C »
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Manoli

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 02:33:57 pm »

My personal view is quite the opposite ...

Rob, at his best !
-
Very good Rob, but 'her indoors' still thinks you'd have been superlative writer. You know, a literary Sean Connery ...
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Rob C

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 03:13:38 pm »

Well, at least I did meet Connery at the premier celebration in Glasgow of Shalako, his 'western' with Brigitte Bardot.

I'd been booked by a PR man who had something to do with the event, and his brief was to shoot him and his wife around the periphery of the great man, better yet if they were shaking hands. Got it, but the real motivation in taking on the gig wasn't the small change, wasn't Bond in western movies, it was BB. But rotten luck, she didn't see fit to come along. I asked Bond where she was, and got a terse reply to the effect that she was being difficult or similar...

Oh well, she had been available a year or two earlier in '66!

One thing I have to admit: Bond has presence. He's big in life, walks like a panther - well, a human version - and I really did feel I was in a presence. Thank goodness I'm fairly convinced about my orientation - God help a woman.

Rob C
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 03:18:37 pm by Rob C »
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John Camp

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 04:05:52 pm »

The problem with "retro" in the case of both Nikon and Fuji is that they made film cameras that don't use film. They didn't understand that "retro" as done by Olympus didn't have much at all to do with anything other than appearance. That silly little pentaprism housing on the Olympus cameras is essentially meaningless -- they needed some space, so they made it look like a pentaprism, while Panasonic, needing roughly the same space for its GH models, chose not to to that. Okay, it's just a design choice. Given that, the Olympus is thoroughly modern. Fuji and Nikon on the other hand, made old-fashioned cameras that don't take advantage of what can be done with completely integrated electronics.

The design tension here has a couple of facets -- there are some ergonomic aspects of cameras that were thoroughly worked out with film cameras -- the size of the critical dials and buttons, for example, so that they could be used by people wearing gloves; or the distance from the side of the cameras to the shutter release, so that people with both large and small hands could use them. Some of that occasionally gets lost in cameras that are basically designed by computer engineers, who may be too menu-oriented, and too Apple-design oriented. We need our buttons, even if they don't look nice. But when the powers-that-be decide that retro is a trend, some of the good computer stuff may be lost as the pendulum swings back to more mechanical devices.

I wonder if any big camera manufacturer has ever tried crowd-sourced design? Not focus groups that comment on designs that are presented to them by the engineers, and then pick the best (they may all be poor) but simply attempting to get input from a very large crowd of knowledgable people? 
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bobtowery

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 06:25:44 pm »

Go Michael! I think you should also ask for a Mirror Lockup button. Just for effect!  :-*
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dreed

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 08:05:11 pm »

Good points Michael. This emphasizes some of the advantages digital has brought in terms of being able to create such profiles. It does make me wonder how many people actually use them. I don't, but that's reflection on what and how I shoot.

I do and for pretty much the reasons that Michael listed. When I want to shoot action, I need 1/500 (or better), auto-ISO is required, don't care about aperture, fast frame rate, auto-focus tracking of moving subjects, etc. Similarly, I can set a profile for tripod work (shutter speed unimportant, ISO 100, aperture I set based on scene, frame rate of one, focus is often manually set from the lcd.) It is easier for me to look at a knob and confirm that it is positioned on the right customisation group than to have to work through all of the settings (and try to remember which one needs to be what) individually. I just wish that mirror lock up could be grouped in that! It can be of use in any number of situations ... even if I'm in a city taking a photograph of a building or whatever, maybe a Bugatti Veyron will turn around the corner and I've got maybe 5 seconds to pickup my camera and get a shot before it passes me and is just exhaust pipes. Whilst said photograph of the Veyron might not be "art" or photographically significant, it is the kind of thing that is good for facebook and if I'm spending all my turn turning knobs, then all I get to do is talk about it on facebook rather than show it!

Quote
I also note that some other reviewers have observed this lack, but don't place much emphasis on it. I wonder if this is because most reviewers don't actually shoot much, or perhaps this is one of those things that is a feature, but not a real benefit to most photographers.

We could speculate endlessly as to why this is the case ...
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bcooter

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 08:29:01 pm »



Have you used it (EM-1) very much in rotten (low) light, with people? What about skin tones?

Rob C


OK.

Before I answer remember this line.   Penis Envy.  If you like old Sean Connery then the em-1 probably isn't your cup of single malt.

Rotten low light.

Nothing without a tripod works well in rotten low light.   I mean you can shot it and some cameras like the 5d3, or d3/d4 will smooth the heck out of it but honestly nothing really works that well past 1000 or so iso unless you don't mind doing a cinema look and silouettes.

Remember between f 4 and 5.6 on a 35mm  camera is 2.8 on a m43 so what takes almost 3,000 iso Full Frame takes under 1,000 iso on m43


Skin Tones

Beautiful as any camera I've used.   The camera is adjustable, you can make a look, even if you shoot raw and they color quickly because next to my 1dx which has more of a global color the em-1/em5 have more specific color.  

They do hold up as well as my Canon 1dx.

But under really good light medium format kills, even old medium format.

_______________________________


I never bought m43 for stills, I bought the pana m43 for smaller motion cameras to compliment our REDs.  

I bought the em-5 just because I wanted to though It took me two months to actually trust that that tiny sensor.

I actually believe the em-5 shoots a slightly prettier file than the em-1 (different sensors) bought the em-1 because it had a pc connection and is  a much better thought out  camera.

Also sleep can be turned off when tethering wi-fi to an ipad (what a drag to tether to an ipad)

______________________________

To me the upside of the em-1 is.

1.   It's built beautifully.   Not leica like because of the design, but think what a film nikon would feel like if Leica built it.

Obviously Olympus hit it with the em-5 then the em-1 because Sony, Nikon and Fuji copied it, though without the feel and in the A7's case, the build quality.    

You really have to use it to understand how well olympus makes this camera.  

2.  wysiwyg viewfinder.  I use the em-4 add on finder because it goes waist level to straight on and it keeps my nose away from the rear lcd.  Either way you can adjust any of the viewfinders to more closely match your computer.  Not exact but closer.

3.  Any lens.  This comes with an asterick because whatever lens you use you double the length.  25 is 50, 42 is 84, 12 is 24.    

4.  Manual focus.   You can actually see what your shooting.    Now it takes a while to get use to an evf.  

5.  Static Auto focus.  Wicked fast and covers the whole frame (almost)

6.  Tracking focus.  Not as bad as people think, but not the camera to shoot at Silverstone. Could be some day, but today that 1dx or D4 territory.  

7.  Size.   I'm not a walk around take a picture guy, but 6 lenses and two bodies can easily fit in a small messenger bag, but see #1 on downsides.

8.  Format.   43 is great for verticals, not great for horizontal.  If I shot fine art, then everything would be 43 format and having those extra sides for some reason let's you allow the image to breath.

9.  Touch screen that works, though I turn it off cause the switches are easier.

10.  Once set up you have built your own camera.

The downside of the em-1

1.   Penis envy.   It's really difficult to look at a little camera and a little sensor and think your going to be serious about the image.

I can prove it's good, I do use it, but I always feel in the back of my mind I could do better.  (in so, so many ways).

Though I think if the olympus was the size of a pentax 6x7 and had a fake frame format and big lenses and you saw the output people would scream  "yea boy, that's the way big film like cameras shoot."

2.   Other cameras, which translates to penis envy.   I wanted the Sony A7 to be better.     I tested it time and time again against my em-5 and every file, every time was not up to the olympus.  I know some people are going to show me a chart to prove the opposite, but I never saw it.

In fact I was very surprised since the em-5 has a Sony sensor and shoots a beautiful file

3.  Lenses.  The negative is I dig lenses and they all have a use.  The Oly primes are great most are fast, the slowest f2.   Nothing wider than 12 (24mm) at F4.   Then there is the non micro 43 lenses that are semi big but all fast f2 for a 150 (300mm in ff).

That's a great lens.  The Pana Leicas are nice from 1.2 to 1.4 but are expensive over a grand for each.

Really all the lenses are covered, it just costs to really cover and want autofocus.   If you manually focus I'd just buy the three .95 Voightlanders and be done with it.  Those are beautiful lenses, period.

4.  Crazy ass menu.  Doesn't revert back to where you were.  It takes hours to get it right and the manual is just as insane.  Now once you've done it, it's done and your camera is really "your" camera.

The menu makes sense it's just deep, deep and deep.  

(Ever see your Parents try to program a vhs recorder?  Now you get the idea of the olympus menu).

IMO

BC

PS  Just one other thing.  Once you get past the screwy menu, the evf learning, the setup, as crazy as this sounds for an all electronic device but it becomes very analog.  It's like picking up an F3 and start shooting.  Sure you gotta set you wb and iso, but that's like loading film so no big, but of all the cameras out there, except Leica, in the modern world this camera is analog and I think even more so than the fuji and I can't really explain why.



« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:01:02 pm by bcooter »
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Pelao

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Re: Fuji X-T1 review - Part II
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 10:47:22 pm »

I do and for pretty much the reasons that Michael listed. When I want to shoot action, I need 1/500 (or better), auto-ISO is required, don't care about aperture, fast frame rate, auto-focus tracking of moving subjects, etc. Similarly, I can set a profile for tripod work (shutter speed unimportant, ISO 100, aperture I set based on scene, frame rate of one, focus is often manually set from the lcd.) It is easier for me to look at a knob and confirm that it is positioned on the right customisation group than to have to work through all of the settings (and try to remember which one needs to be what) individually. I just wish that mirror lock up could be grouped in that! It can be of use in any number of situations ... even if I'm in a city taking a photograph of a building or whatever, maybe a Bugatti Veyron will turn around the corner and I've got maybe 5 seconds to pickup my camera and get a shot before it passes me and is just exhaust pipes. Whilst said photograph of the Veyron might not be "art" or photographically significant, it is the kind of thing that is good for facebook and if I'm spending all my turn turning knobs, then all I get to do is talk about it on facebook rather than show it!

We could speculate endlessly as to why this is the case ...

Yep. I get why some photographers might find it important. My bet is that many more might find it important and useful but don't bother with it.

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