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Author Topic: Ilford Imaging bankrupt  (Read 51018 times)

howardm

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #120 on: September 22, 2014, 06:14:22 pm »

Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #121 on: September 23, 2014, 04:54:15 am »

Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)

Between batches of the same paper there should be less difference. Between new production methods/facilities it is a good result. The reason I included the spectral plot of the earlier 280gsm Smooth Pearl production (sans Prestige :-) is to show what the old Ilford Imaging could achieve when the 280gsm was replaced by the 310 grams Prestige version.
The texture is identical, the gloss slightly less in the N product sample.

I'm not going to add more spectral plot images here but as expected the N Gold Fibre Silk spectral plot looks like the old one (and several other ones; Canson, Innova, etc) but is slightly higher in overall white reflection. Could be a fresher sample but I have identical higher white reflectance spectral plots of the Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta 310 and very interesting (as I was on a hunt for that much longer) of the Felix Schoeller J23160 True Baryta 310gsm. It is my guess that the last company has been the source for this paper much longer, they have the patents on baryta inkjet paper and supplied the baryta paper bases for silverhalide photo processes way before inkjet papers became available.

In best case I can add all the measurements within a week to SpectrumViz for download but till then you have to wait, nothing is added so far. There will be interesting new ones. I did not have time for the Breathing Color booth, the Tecco booth etc but anyone interested in having samples included can find my address.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #122 on: September 23, 2014, 09:27:17 am »

Thanks Ernst, very interesting. In your view, does higher white reflectance indicate advisability to re-profile for using the new stock?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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howardm

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #123 on: September 23, 2014, 10:00:11 am »

it will be interesting to see if these results change over the near(ish) term as they get perhaps get the new facilities 'dialed in'.

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #124 on: September 23, 2014, 10:57:16 am »

Thanks Ernst, very interesting. In your view, does higher white reflectance indicate advisability to re-profile for using the new stock?

I doubt that that is necessary based on the white reflectance, half a Delta E increase in L and when the supply chain is long you may not even get that, the b value might shift back to zero in the same time. Whether the coating behaves the same with the inks is more important for the profile match. It would be interesting to compare manufacturer's profiles for the 7 brand labels this paper meanwhile carries.

 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #125 on: September 23, 2014, 12:43:47 pm »

Thanks Ernst, useful to know. By the way, on GFS the b* value is +0.2. Close enough to 0 for all intents and purposes.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #126 on: September 24, 2014, 06:51:14 am »


I'm not going to add more spectral plot images here but as expected the N Gold Fibre Silk spectral plot looks like the old one (and several other ones; Canson, Innova, etc) but is slightly higher in overall white reflection. Could be a fresher sample but I have identical higher white reflectance spectral plots of the Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta 310 and very interesting (as I was on a hunt for that much longer) of the Felix Schoeller J23160 True Baryta 310gsm. It is my guess that the last company has been the source for this paper much longer, they have the patents on baryta inkjet paper and supplied the baryta paper bases for silverhalide photo processes way before inkjet papers became available.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

I know Baryta darkroom paper has been around since the mid-1970s as I used to print on it.  There was a French company that had one of the first formulations as Zone VI studios imported and re-branded it.  I wouldn't think the process of applying baryta would be different between darkroom and inkjet paper but maybe it is and a second patent was issued.  Do you happen to know the date of issuance of the inkjet baryta paper patent?  I wonder if it's nearing expiration. 
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #127 on: September 24, 2014, 07:55:13 am »

Google this: >Felix Schoeller patent inkjet< and add barium for a more specific search.  1995 to 2003 for several patents. Barium Sulphate has been used in photo papers since 1884. Whether it is reasonable to patent an existing baryta paper base used for inkjet, with or without an extra inkjet coating, is another matter, the patent industry works like that. There is mention of an additional aluminium oxide coating in one of Schoeller's patents, I recall a Harman paper with a similar component.

The main point is that Felix Schoeller was involved in baryta inkjet paper research at that time and had a past in manufacturing baryta photo papers for Agfa Gevaert and other companies before that date . You can find Mitsubishi and Kodak patents for similar paper compositions, there will be more.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Ilford Imaging bankrupt
« Reply #128 on: September 24, 2014, 11:36:40 am »

Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)

Measuring more of the new Ilford samples I see that what used to be a set of equal paper white RC papers; Smooth Pearl, Smooth Gloss, Semi Gloss Duo, is no longer equal. The new Smooth Pearl has the most resemblance to the old Smooth Pearl paper white, the other two have more OBA content and are cooler than the old qualities. Also about -3 cooler than the Lab numbers in the new documentation sheets suggest!!

Within 30 minutes I will upload SpectrumViz with the new Ilford samples added, the old ones are in the obsolete papers map. The samples book I got does not have all the papers that are shown on the Ilford website, the matte art papers are not included.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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