Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: francois on December 10, 2013, 03:16:08 am
-
It's now official, Ilford Imaging has been shutdown and a judge declared bankruptcy.
This is sad but almost inevitable after the last possible investor withdrawal a few days ago.
-
Time to buy the last batches of GFS.
-
Time to buy the last batches of GFS.
I stocked up, well in advance but will try to find additional boxes and rolls.
-
Does this apply to their film as well, or just paper division? ???
SG
-
Does this apply to their film as well, or just paper division? ???
SG
It's just Ilford Imaging (http://www.ilford.com) in Switzerland. Ilford Photo (http://www.ilfordphoto.com) is not the same company, so B&W films, Harman papers and other products supplies are not affected.
Ilford Imaging used to sell inkjet papers such as the Gold Fibre Silk or Smooth Gloss.
-
For those using Gold Fibre Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique is pretty much a clone. Remains to be seen whether they jack-up the price.
-
For those using Gold Fibre Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique is pretty much a clone. Remains to be seen whether they jack-up the price.
If I were trying to get users of another brand to switch to my paper, I'd run a sale, to get them to try it. The last thing I'd do is raise my price.
But that's just me. :)
-
For those using Gold Fibre Silk, Canson Baryta Photographique is pretty much a clone. Remains to be seen whether they jack-up the price.
Well not really, the GFS has a noticeable warm tone. For neutral tone, Canson is excellent though
-
Well not really, the GFS has a noticeable warm tone. ...
It is no different in that regard than Canson Baryta Photographique, at least when profiled well.
Brian A
-
Correct - in fact you can successfully use the same profile for the two papers.
-
Sad news indeed. Has anyone come across a comparable product to their Prestige Smooth Pearl? Especially one that is easily available in Europe.
-
Canson PhotoSatin. About to become my default paper.
-
Canson PhotoSatin is not even close IMO. Ilford Pearl has much more distinct "pearling", while PhotoSatin is smoother, with very fine texture - comparing to Fuji DP II c-print types, Ilford looks like Lustre, and Canson like Matte surface.
After the end of production of lamented Canon Photo Glacier/HW Satin I had switched to Tecco Production Semiglossy 300gsm that has similar "pearling" to both HW Satin and Ilford Pearl.
-
Some RC papers from Bonjet and Photolux (both German) are so close in spectral plot etc to the Smooth Pearl that they could have been from the same coating facility, the one that will dry up.
There are more similar RC papers but no clones. Luster and Pearl names usually representing a texture like the Smooth Pearl.
It will be interesting to see whether Canson Baryta Photographique is produced elsewhere and no short supply is created by Ilford Imaging's fate.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Well not really, the GFS has a noticeable warm tone. For neutral tone, Canson is excellent though
Measured: Canson Baryta Photographique Lab 98.0 0.1 0.0 and the Ilford Galerie Prestige GoldFibre Lab 97.8 0.0 -0.8.
That 0.8 difference on the b is less than people see as a difference with two samples next to one another.
The sample of IGFS that I measured before it got the prestiguous name had a Lab 98.2 0.0 0.5 measurement. The differences are production batch differences in my opinion. The spectral plots are identical.
The Canson Platine is as neutral, slightly less reflective, and has a different spectral plot which points to no OBA content. Cotton base though.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Canson PhotoSatin is not even close IMO. Ilford Pearl has much more distinct "pearling", while PhotoSatin is smoother, with very fine texture - comparing to Fuji DP II c-print types, Ilford looks like Lustre, and Canson like Matte surface.
After the end of production of lamented Canon Photo Glacier/HW Satin I had switched to Tecco Production Semiglossy 300gsm that has similar "pearling" to both HW Satin and Ilford Pearl.
The Canson paper has a nice sheen to the surface. To me, "matte" refers to a flat surface with little or no reflectivity. This is not what I see in Canson PhotoSatin. Nevertheless, here are three papers that are widely available and have a deeper texture than the Canson paper:
- Canon Photo Paper Pro Luster
- Epson Ultra Premium Luster
- Red River Arctic Polar Luster
-
How about any favorite similar rc papers close to the pearl in the United States. I'm giving red river prosatin 3.0 another try, after testing the 2.0. HP? Any others to try, especially one that isn't too blue. It took me a while to find the ilford pearl and of course now it'll be gone.
Sad news indeed. Has anyone come across a comparable product to their Prestige Smooth Pearl? Especially one that is easily available in Europe.
-
http://www.macgroupus.com/webinar/ilford/ILFORD-Webinar-Invite-12192013.html
-
The website is down... but you can login to download paper profiles... but for how long? If you need profiles you better download soon!
-
I do not believe Canson Baryta Photographique and Ilford GFS come from the same mills in Europe.
(In fact, I see on the packaging that the Canson BP is manufactured in France and the IGFS in Germany.)
-
Well not really, the GFS has a noticeable warm tone. For neutral tone, Canson is excellent though
I'm holding a sheet of each in my hand right now, examining them under D50 Solux illumination and it's like I said.
-
I do not believe Canson Baryta Photographique and Ilford GFS come from the same mills in Europe.
The paper base might not, the coating is another matter.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
The paper base might not, the coating is another matter.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
Well, one package says manufactured in France and the other package says manufactured in Germany. I know there are very few coating mills in Europe each serving a broad clientele, and one would need to know how to interpret EU labeling regulations (which I do not), but on the face of it, they are made in different countries.
-
Well, one package says manufactured in France and the other package says manufactured in Germany. I know there are very few coating mills in Europe each serving a broad clientele, and one would need to know how to interpret EU labeling regulations (which I do not), but on the face of it, they are made in different countries.
Count on packaging for the country label. Ilford's coating facility is in Marly, Swiss. Swiss is not a EU memberstate. Half products usually have lower import taxes and the EU is bigger than Swiss....... There is an assembly hall in The Netherlands for US electric sport cars for the same reason.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
I do not believe Canson Baryta Photographique and Ilford GFS come from the same mills in Europe.
(In fact, I see on the packaging that the Canson BP is manufactured in France and the IGFS in Germany.)
That would be good. The baryta coating is so similar, as is the spectral response curve. Without looking at the back, the two papers, unprinted, are very close. After printing, the surface texture is a little, but very little, different.
Brian A
-
I'm holding a sheet of each in my hand right now, examining them under D50 Solux illumination and it's like I said.
Yeah.. I just checked. You are right, my bad. I rarely print on the paper because its a little bit pricier,
but from what I remember the result always have a warm tinge.
Well, at least now I won't have any reservation to finish the rest of the box. ;D
-
Sad news indeed. Has anyone come across a comparable product to their Prestige Smooth Pearl? Especially one that is easily available in Europe.
Yes ;) "Pearl 300 BrightWhite" from Rauch.
There are also other similar qualities in the range of "Rauch" and "MediaJet".
regards
Oliver
-
Is it necessary that I get a sample of that paper and make a spectral plot of it or could I use the one from BonJet and give it another name? :-)
I should have mentioned the Mediajet PhotoArt White Baryta 310 gsm as an IGFS clone too of course.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Hi Ernst,
i send you 2 testpacks in A4 size begin of October this year.
???
Don´t received it?
regards
Oliver
-
Oliver,
I went through my paper samples archive, my spectral measurements and in search of lost packages here. Nada! The Mediajet entries are of older samples I got from Rauch at the Photokina and afterwards but nothing recent. The last contact I had with Rauch was in May.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Hello,
:-\ i will see that you will get something soon.
regards
Oliver
-
That is very disappointing to hear. I will miss that paper and its easy-scratch surface and erratic packaging quality. ;) But then again, when everything went right, I felt like it was the best fiber paper available on the market for sharpness, color and a pleasing texture.
-
Hello,
:-\ i will see that you will get something soon.
regards
Oliver
Oliver,
It arrived, thank you. If there are new ones to measure I might add them to the SpectrumViz list before New Year. There are more samples arriving this weekend.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
This is a shock. Ilford is about the only paper I use. They just sponsored a webinar yesterday, and are having a 25% off sale in conjunction with the webinar. I just ordered a roll of Smooth Pearl today using the discount.
-
You can use Harman, It seems Harman got the Ilford facilities for producing Baryta and other paper in UK:
http://www.harman-inkjet.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=175
-
Or even try this one:
http://harman.hahnemuehle.com/site/en/819/about.html
-
None of this stuff is quite the same as Gold Fibre Silk, once you read the specs, and the pricing is likely higher depending on where you buy it. This bankruptcy of Ilford Imaging (Marly, CH) is very bad news for more reasons than them alone. I am given to understand that their coating mill coats papers on contract to other suppliers selling papers under different brand names, so more of your favorite papers may be affected than these alone. Unless restored, this recent development will cause a realignment of manufacturing arrangements across a broader swath of the industry than may be apparent to us, because there are very few coating mills in Europe. The implications for competitive conditions in the market remain to be seen. I don't quite understand what kind of factors have deterred the many groups who were looking over the Marly operation from rescuing it from bankruptcy. There could be many such factors, but given how low the acquisition cost should be at this stage and the usual desire of bankruptcy receivers to see their sick patients restored to health as expeditiously as possible, one wonders why it is not happening.
-
After finding the new Prestige pearl I thought I finally had my paper, especially one that wouldn't get scratched coming through my 3880.
Now that it's leaving us, I'm on the hunt again. One the good side I just tested Red Rivers Ultrapro Satin 3.0. I'd wait for others to do tests but I'm finding the gamut very large, deeper black than the ilford and a great canned great profile. If they only made it thicker but I think this will be a new standard RC for me.
-
Red River Arctic Polar Satin has been my basic paper for some time now. I've been very please both with the paper and the support from the company. I have found the profiles to be a little dark but easily adjusted whereas Canon's are right on.
-
Red River Arctic Polar Satin has been my basic paper for some time now. I've been very please both with the paper and the support from the company. I have found the profiles to be a little dark but easily adjusted whereas Canon's are right on.
Which Canon's? Profiles for Canon paper?
-
After finding the new Prestige pearl I thought I finally had my paper, especially one that wouldn't get scratched coming through my 3880.
Now that it's leaving us, I'm on the hunt again. One the good side I just tested Red Rivers Ultrapro Satin 3.0. I'd wait for others to do tests but I'm finding the gamut very large, deeper black than the ilford and a great canned great profile. If they only made it thicker but I think this will be a new standard RC for me.
The RR Ultra Pro Satin has at least a similar OBA content and most of its OBAs in the paperbase. Like the Ilford Smooth Lustre but is not a lower weight clone or the Ilford Smooth Lustre though. The other RR RC qualities have a high load of OBAs, mainly in the inkjet coating.
Some European distributors have RC qualities that come closer to the Ilford Smooth Lustre.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
I just received a reward card from B&H for almost enough for another roll of Prestige Pearl, so I ordered another roll. Perfect timing :D
Still very disappointed to hear about Ilford :( I will keep a watch here for updates, and possible alternatives.
Thanks to all for the info.
-
I used Ilford GALERIE Prestige Smooth Lustre Duo to make photo books, but maybe not enough :-(. I looked for a replacement on the web but the only non matte double sided coated inkjet paper I found was Tecco DS275 DUO Satin. Can anybody recommend other papers which I should have a look at? Printer is an Epson 4900. Any help is appreciated.
Merry Christmas to all.
Guido
-
Sihl MasterClass 4845 Lustre Fotopapier Duo
regards
Oliver
-
We have similar papers in our range as i told before, and the DUO, it´s not our own range, but we sell as a distributor the following:
Sihl MasterClass 4845 Lustre Fotopapier Duo
regards
Oliver
Please keep your advertising away from this forum.
-
I wouldn't be freaked out about not having Gold Fiber Silk, as Ilford doesn't make the paper anyway. Yes, we have the Canson branded one but I would anticipate the same paper popping up from another brand name.
-
I wouldn't be freaked out about not having Gold Fiber Silk, as Ilford doesn't make the paper anyway. Yes, we have the Canson branded one but I would anticipate the same paper popping up from another brand name.
What do you mean by "make the paper"? Do you mean the base or the coating? The facility involved in the bankruptcy is the coating mill in Marly, Canton Fribourg, Switzerland. My understanding is that the paper base comes from elsewhere and the coating is done in Marly. My understanding is that the Marly coating facility also coats other papers on contract for other brands. If you look at the notices on the packaging of GFS, it says "Made in Germany". Hard to know what percentage value of the content is associated with that designation by EU rules. Canson Baryta Photographique is pretty much an identical product, but that packaging says "Made in France". I understand that Canson, however, does not coat its own papers. I hope their Baryta Photographique was not being coated in Marly. There are only several coating mills in Europe and who makes exactly what components of a paper for others or on their own account is "unclear" at best.
-
I used Ilford GALERIE Prestige Smooth Lustre Duo to make photo books, but maybe not enough :-(. I looked for a replacement on the web but the only non matte double sided coated inkjet paper I found was Tecco DS275 DUO Satin. Can anybody recommend other papers which I should have a look at? Printer is an Epson 4900. Any help is appreciated.
Merry Christmas to all.
Guido
The Sihl mentioned has an equivalent in the Moab Lasal Dual Semigloss 330 gsm. Which one is easier to get depends on your location.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
What do you mean by "make the paper"? Do you mean the base or the coating? The facility involved in the bankruptcy is the coating mill in Marly, Canton Fribourg, Switzerland. My understanding is that the paper base comes from elsewhere and the coating is done in Marly. My understanding is that the Marly coating facility also coats other papers on contract for other brands. If you look at the notices on the packaging of GFS, it says "Made in Germany". Hard to know what percentage value of the content is associated with that designation by EU rules. Canson Baryta Photographique is pretty much an identical product, but that packaging says "Made in France". I understand that Canson, however, does not coat its own papers. I hope their Baryta Photographique was not being coated in Marly. There are only several coating mills in Europe and who makes exactly what components of a paper for others or on their own account is "unclear" at best.
Sihl, division of Diatec, has several coating facilities in Europe and it coats also for Hahnemühle. Harman probably has part of their analogue coating equipment in use for inkjet media, if the deal with HM was not more than marketing that has not changed. Felix Schoeller has inline coating facilities in its paper making plant in Weissenborn. One could wonder where Bergger, Canson, InnovaArt, Somerset, Olmec have their coating done in Europe. That covers roughly the European manufacturers of the inkjet papers we discuss here. Folex in Switzerland has coating facilities, at least for their own products but could coat for others too.
Yes Ilford Imaging must have coated for companies like Canson.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
I just went to the Ilford Imaging web site (ilford.com) and not only is it up and running, but it has a 2014 copyright date!
I also found this article from September 25, 2013:
http://www.printweek.com/print-week/news/1130749/ilford-rescued-mbo-job-cuts
Perhaps the rumors of Ilford's death have been exaggerated?
-
Insolvency 2 or 3 in Ilford Imaging history, not the recent II bankrupt case we discuss here.
Ernst, op de lei getypt.
-
According to today's Amateur Photographer (i.e. 18th January issue), the factory has now closed and all production ceased and staff paid off.
Pity - I just love their Galerie Gold Mono Silk for b&w prints. I have a good stock but may have to go back to Fotospeed's Platinum Baryta when the stock runs out.
Incidentally, the company in trouble is just the Swiss-based inkjet paper maker. The long-established "real" Ilford in UK, who make photographic paper and film, is not connected in any way and is not in any sort of financial mess.
-
Very sad. I wonder what happened to their inventory and works in progress. And I wonder whether the equipment is being maintained regardless of the shut-down just in case other interested parties turn-up. This plant serviced a lot more than their own branded papers. So while it looks like the end and sounds like the end, it may not necessarily really be THE END. Time will tell.
-
Very sad. I wonder what happened to their inventory and works in progress. And I wonder whether the equipment is being maintained regardless of the shut-down just in case other interested parties turn-up. This plant serviced a lot more than their own branded papers. So while it looks like the end and sounds like the end, it may not necessarily really be THE END. Time will tell.
Depends on the size and age of the equipment. If there are a lot of creditors, the equipment will likely be sold off for as much as they can get as this is the usual route for bankruptcies.
-
I can confirm that the work has come to a stop back in December. Remaining employees were laid off. Just before that, the director said in a televised interview that they were fulfilling orders for their customers.
A few days later, I've heard that Canton of Fribourg could acquire buildings and infrastructure but no official word on that option.
Unfortunately, legally, Ilford Imaging in Marly in now in liquidation.
-
Some fresh news and they are not good!
With a few employees, production has resumed. It will last only until supplies are exhausted. Ilford Imaging will be shut down for good at the end of January. The head of production said that some services will be sold to different parties but without mentioning anything about what services and who are those interested.
-
Any chance to get the names of the companies that used Ilford Imaging to coat their products?
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Any chance to get the names of the companies that used Ilford Imaging to coat their products?
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
Hi Ernst,
No word at this point. Mr. Michel Gremaud (head of production) didn't say anything more. It would have been very interesting to know what services are for sale and if there's any potential buyer(s) at this point.
I've found an article about the latest news: http://www.agefi.com/une/detail/archive/2014/january/artikel/ilford-cessation-de-lactivite-fin-janvier.html
It's in french but you might want to translate it in german or english. via translate.google.com or www.reverso.net
-
I have been using Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl II on my HP Z 3200ps. My supply is near the end and I see that my dealer has Ilford Galerie Prestige Smooth Pearl in Stock. Is this the "next editon" of the same paper?
Has anybody used this paper on a HP Z3200 With any of the downloadable profiles? The available profiles don`t seem to match very well, but maybe I just don`t understand which one to choose.
Chris
-
The new version is about 30 grams heavier. Spectral plot is the same.
What is wrong with either APS or Color Center of the Z3200PS software to make a profile?
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Thank you !
Oh, there is nothing wrong with the printer software. However,I do like to give the profiles provided by the paper manufacturer a try.
On the other hand, since supplies are limited anyway do you have any suggestions for an alternative to the Ilford galerie smooth Pearl?
Chris
-
Here i the netherlands pro-line vibrant luster is a good alternative.
-
Here i the netherlands pro-line vibrant luster is a good alternative.
Much cooler though with more OBA content and that at the coating side, not in the paper base. The texture and weight are close.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Tecco is goong to offer Gold Fibre Silk clone - Tecco Fibre Silk. Samples should become available in the middle of feb.
-
Hi Marcin,
Interesting - but Tecco is a brand virtually unknown in North America (but well-known in Germany). They list one internet distributor in the USA whose website says nothing about inkjet photo paper. I think for now the safest bet is Canson Baryta Photographique which is virtually interchangeable with IGFS.
Mark
-
Hi Marcin,
Interesting - but Tecco is a brand virtually unknown in North America (but well-known in Germany). They list one internet distributor in the USA whose website says nothing about inkjet photo paper. I think for now the safest bet is Canson Baryta Photographique which is virtually interchangeable with IGFS.
Mark
Mark, does the Canson BP have the same warmish base color as does GFS? Also, is it as stiff and difficult to flatten?
I pushed the panic button a few weeks ago and bought four 17" rolls of GFS, as well as some Galerie Smooth Pearl. I was surprised to see how economical the Canson is - $85 for a 50' roll, whereas I paid a deeply discounted $75 each for the 39.4' GFS rolls.
Pete
-
Actually both papers are very close to neutral. Read the Lab data provided. I hardly ever use roll paper so I can't answer your question about flattening. The one time I used roll paper, I had the panorama mounted (see my article on this website) and the company who did the work had no problem with it, but that was IGFS. Never used roll of Canson.
-
Hi Marcin,
Interesting - but Tecco is a brand virtually unknown in North America (but well-known in Germany). They list one internet distributor in the USA whose website says nothing about inkjet photo paper. I think for now the safest bet is Canson Baryta Photographique which is virtually interchangeable with IGFS.
Mark
Tecco is a german paper manufacturer, that AFAIK provides OEM papers for Epson, Canon, EFI (proofing substrates) and so on - it was making my beloved and sorely missed Canon Photo Glacier a.k.a. HW Satin among the others. Ironically it had been acquired by Ilford just before the bankruptcy...
http://www.ilford.com/en/about-us/press/ilford-group-ag-acquires-tecco-gmbh/
-
I wonder whether Tecco is at all affected by the bankruptcy of its parent company. Nothing has been said about this, so presumably means there is no impact, but would be good to know for sure.
-
It must have been a change in marketing strategy that Ilford Imaging got involved with several more pre-press orientated companies in 2013 (Tecco is one of them). It also acquired Kodak Matchprint certificates at the end of 2013. I guess that there were some escape routes in the contracts as Ilford Imaging's financial history was not among the best. I checked Tecco's site the last months but did not see signs of issues there. On the other hand one wonders why they accepted the bid at that time.
More companies are bringing Ilford alternatives on the market. I can not testify which products do equal the Ilford quality on all aspects but I will try to get some tests done in the coming weeks.
http://www.rauch-papiere.de/aktuelles/ilford-alternativen/
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
It is really a sad news :( I remember some nice talks with the people from Ilford two years ago at Photokina 2012 where they were showing the Mono Silk and now ... gone
While I was doing some last stock shopping mainly of GFS and Mono Silk in my usual UK based online store, I saw that they are suggesting to check the Permajet Smooth Pearl 280gsm as a possible replacement for the Smooth Pearl 280. I do not have experience with that paper so I cannot say if it is really the case.
-
I wonder whether Tecco is at all affected by the bankruptcy of its parent company.
Nothing has been said about this, so presumably means there is no impact, but would be good to know for sure.
The information in first half of 2013 was, that Tecco is a part of Ilford, but in that time we all get informed of the bakruptcy of Ilford in second half of 2013, Tecco wrote that they are owend by a japanese company.
Sold again or never be part of Ilford?
--> http://blog.tecco.de/en/teccopress-information
-
While I was doing some last stock shopping mainly of GFS and Mono Silk in my usual UK based online store, I saw that they are suggesting to check the Permajet Smooth Pearl 280gsm as a possible replacement for the Smooth Pearl 280. I do not have experience with that paper so I cannot say if it is really the case.
I've just bought some of the Permajet Smooth Pearl 280. I wasn't particularly happy with the way the purchase was handled by Imaging Warehouse, the supplied in the UK, but the problem was mainly very poor communication and the paper arrived only a few days late.
I've not done much printing on it, but the few prints I have look good. The paper has a pleasant, subtle texture to it. It's notably lighter and more flexible than my preferred GFS, but that's not comparing like with like. I'd say it was well worth a look, particularly since it's being quite heavily discounted until (I think) March.
Jerem
-
Tecco was in one grup with Ilford under japanese owner. Ilford is gone, but they are safe. It's well known brand in Europe. You should expect that good papers from Ilford will be avalible under Tecco brand now. It will be Tecco Baryt Fibre Silk and Tecco Smooth Pearl.
There are another papers similar to Ilford but in this case, not the same
You can find a list of Tecco - Ilford alternatives:
http://finde-deine-alternative.tecco-photo.de/en/produktuebersicht/
-
Tecco was in one grup with Ilford under japanese owner. Ilford is gone, but they are safe. It's well known brand in Europe. You should expect that good papers from Ilford will be avalible under Tecco brand now. It will be Tecco Baryt Fibre Silk and Tecco Smooth Pearl.
The Japanese OJI paper sold Ilford in 2010 after 5 years ownership. It was a British investors company that abandoned Ilford Imaging from its portfolio maybe two years ago. AFAIK it was a management owned Ilford Imaging that acquired Tecco in 2013. That there is no effect on Tecco suggests that that deal was not that tight end of 2013.
Hope your information on the Tecco papers is better. The Ilford Imaging coating facility most likely will not be involved in the production so either the Tecco qualities are coated somewhere else with similar specifications or rebranded papers already available elsewhere.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
There are another papers similar to Ilford but in this case, not the same
I think you are wrong, Ernst wrote it already. The japanese sold Ilford to a britsh investor some time ago.
And there are definitely other papers in the market, next to the Tecco papers, who are "the same".
Have a look at.
-
Are any of the profiles available online anywhere? Specifically looking for Canon MK9000 II and Canon Pro-100 for Ilford Galerie Prestige Smooth Pearl 8.5x11" 310gsm 25 Sheet Pack..
-
for the -100, look here: http://singular.myrsphoto.com/ilford-printer-profiles/
-
Last time I checked B&H still had plenty of GFS in stock.
-
Not much of anything left.. 100 count 4x6 pearl..
Last time I checked B&H still had plenty of GFS in stock.
-
Good news for ilford paper lovers (http://www.chugai-photo.co.jp/news/20140516.html) a Japanese company bought ilford bankruptcy ::)
Charles ::)
-
Good news for ilford paper lovers (http://www.chugai-photo.co.jp/news/20140516.html) a Japanese company bought ilford bankruptcy ::)
Charles ::)
Good! Any link?
-
I'm keeping my 'enthusiasm' in check until they actually ship product, hopefully the *same* as the original Ilford, not just a 'we bought the name'.
-
www.chugai-photo.co.jp
-
Something was brewing, that Japanese company and an Australian photo accessory distributor. It is a brand name deal, nothing else, no production in Swiss etc.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Well that link didn't tell me much.. Will try a translate, but not going to be too easy.. Sad if it is a name transfer only and not the technology.. Another "cloud" victim.. Far fewer want prints these days..
Jay S.
-
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/photo-news/540601/ilford-galerie-photo-paper-set-for-1-3m-comeback
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
I'm keeping my 'enthusiasm' in check until they actually ship product, hopefully the *same* as the original Ilford, not just a 'we bought the name'.
Would seem not to be a “name” deal. Quoting form AP:
“Earlier this month, Australian photo website ProCounter first reported that the ‘bold bid' for the ‘Ilford and Galerie names' would result in production of Ilford Galerie paper resuming at the Marly plant.” [my emphasis]
But not holding my breath…
-
your breath = my enthusiasm :)
When the finished product is available for purchase, I'll believe it and look into buying it.
-
Google translate.
(: Chuo-ku, Tokyo, President: Head Office Nakaseko MamoruShigeru) Chugai Photo Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. (.. CR Kennedy & Company Pty Ltd) is, Sea Earl Kennedy & Company, Inc., with headquarters in Melbourne, Australia with, Ilford (ILFORD Get the assets and their associated trademarks), Ilford Imaging Europe GmbH (ILFORD Imaging Europe GmbH headquarters jointly: You founded the Germany Bergisch-Gladbach). Ilford Imaging Europe Inc., the sale of the main product groups inkjet existing "Ilford Omni Jet (ILFORD OMNIJET)" and commercial wide-format inkjet paper "Ilford Gallery Prestige (ILFORD GALERIE Prestige)" and Fine Art inkjet paper I will continue for the whole world. He does product development, manufacturing, logistics, sales and marketing of the future, the company will continue to put into market products better based on the long-term strategy. To pay tribute to the history and tradition of Ilford brand, Chugai Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. photo will continue to support the product development and growth strategy and technology experience gained in the imaging business for many years. Sales of Ilford products in Japan, jet graph Co., Ltd., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Chugai Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. photo (head office:. Chuo-ku, Tokyo, President: Shindo Katsura-shi) will do as a sole agent.
C R Kennedy is a large distributer of scientific, photographic and industrial optics in Australia. Brands they represent include Pentax, Sigma, Ricoh, Hassleblad, Sandisk, Schneider, Zeiss and many others. Not a small operator and decades in the business.
-
Remeber, also Tecco (a former part of Ilford) is a part of them.
http://blog.tecco.de/en/teccopress-information/
I can check if it´s only a "Name" Transfer or if they plan to produce again, come back to you.
-
Remeber, also Tecco (a former part of Ilford) is a part of them.
http://blog.tecco.de/en/teccopress-information/
I can check if it´s only a "Name" Transfer or if they plan to produce again, come back to you.
This surprises me. Since it was announced that Ilford Imaging acquired Tecco, I have never seen a news item appear on Tecco's web pages describing they were still part of that company in insolvency. It mentioned (with some sadness) Ilford's fate in an announcement for a Tecco distributed Ilford paper alternative though. Could call that self pity now :-)
Is still doubt that the Marly factory will be resurrected, Swiss wages are among the highest in the world.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
I asked in Marly, and the current situation is, that Chugai owned the brand "Ilford" and the brand names like "Prestige".
Not the machines or any Equipment.
Here is an official with Paul Willems about the Situation, in german.
http://www.fotointern.ch/thema/top-stories/
The material on stock in Marly will be sold by Paul, but than Marly is closed.
If and what Kind of paper Chugai will pack in the boxes in future , he don´t know.
Therefore, only the names (brand) were sold to Chugai.
-
Good article including the former employees' comments at the end. It must have been a tough period for all of them. Ilford processes, Cibachrome etc are on the way of the dodo, like Autochrome went 60 years ago. The difference is that a high end technology like Cibachrome will never reappear in the same quality. Polaroid film resurrection in the Impossible Project showed that already. We may be able to make Daquerrotypes in the kitchen but Ilfochrome needs more than that. Interesting to read that the OEM production, HP Premium Plus for example, could not bring enough profit, hard competition and Swiss wages being the cause. We may see changes in OEM media catalogs as a result too. Ilfoflex for the Lightjet will be gone too, only FujiFilm products left then for that 70" chromogene proces?
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
I was at Photokina today, and what do I see ? An Ilford booth ! So I asked them what the situation was. They told me, that all the paper-related stuff had been bought, and that production of all papers had restarted.
They are still ramping up distribution, but he told me that in principle, all their papers (including my favorite, Gold Fiber Silk) were available.
-
I was at Photokina today, and what do I see ? An Ilford booth ! So I asked them what the situation was. They told me, that all the paper-related stuff had been bought, and that production of all papers had restarted.
They are still ramping up distribution, but he told me that in principle, all their papers (including my favorite, Gold Fiber Silk) were available.
Yes, I learned of this from a US firm about a month ago. Same paper, same name, same factory, same packaging, same specs, available in USA some time in October according to them.
-
That is really terrific news. I hope it works out for them.
-
Who really knows, could be issues of regaining market share, etc.; but the basic reasons for the bankruptcy at Marly, from what I understand, were unrelated to the paper business per se, which I also heard was doing quite well. IGFS was their "bread and butter paper", and for good reason.
-
I dont think they'll have too much issue w/ market share. in reality, they weren't gone that long and I think a lot of people were still working through their on-hand stock and there was a lot of product in the distribution pipeline and on dealer shelves.
Anyway, certainly a positive development and if they can produce it and keep the price in-line, I hope they are successful.
-
You may well be right, but one retailer here in Toronto, with stock, told me customers are turning to alternatives because of the uncertainties that existed. We don't know how many and whether they will return, but I tend to agree there will likely be good uptake once availability is assured.
-
I was at Photokina today, and what do I see ? An Ilford booth ! So I asked them what the situation was. They told me, that all the paper-related stuff had been bought, and that production of all papers had restarted.
They are still ramping up distribution, but he told me that in principle, all their papers (including my favorite, Gold Fiber Silk) were available.
Been there on Wednesday and collected the samples book that should represent the new production papers. To be sure about the last I asked that three times. They also told me that on the old boxes a Swiss vlag is present and no longer on the new boxes. Which is sensible as production is no longer done in Marly.
Hope to measure the paper whites soon.
Ernst
-
Been there on Wednesday and collected the samples book that should represent the new production papers. To be sure about the last I asked that three times. They also told me that on the old boxes a Swiss vlag is present and no longer on the new boxes. Which is sensible as production is no longer done in Marly.
Hope to measure the paper whites soon.
Ernst
If you read the sticky label holding together the bottom and the cover of the "Marly" boxes, it says "Made in Germany". So it will likely just continue to be made in Germany as it was in the past, this time without the Swiss flag, which indicated the head office of the company, not necessarily the place of manufacture. Of course these days only the company and the regulators know the detail of what those labels really mean.
-
For what it is worth, I was told by my paper supplier that when Ilford went bankrupt their exclusive over the specs of their papers, Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, ended. As such, that process was made available to other paper companies like Hahnemuhle.
-
Rather curious that there is nothing up on the Ilford website other than a couple of perfunctory new releases dated August 4 about distribution of paper in the US and Canada. I though I read somewhere that a lot of the equipment at the Marly plant had been sold off. Are Ilford manufacturing or just sourcing?
-
For what it is worth, I was told by my paper supplier that when Ilford went bankrupt their exclusive over the specs of their papers, Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, ended. As such, that process was made available to other paper companies like Hahnemuhle.
In a normal bankruptcy proceeding, patents, unless held in a manner that is beyond the reach of a bankruptcy trustee, are erstwhile company assets held by the bankruptcy trustee pending disposition of the bankruptcy. Unless someone has the ownership details of the patents and the disposition of the bankruptcy, it would be hard to know for sure what happened to those patents. I expect the current manufacturer obtained the patent rights.
-
Are Ilford manufacturing or just sourcing?
Probably a combination. I'm interested to learn what the new ownership and operational arrangements are. Nothing posted that I could find, yet.
-
Hi Mark,
My paper supplier did not mention that Ilford had a patent on the specification and that the paper was not directly made by them. when they went bankrupt, that process was made available to others. I am getting this 2nd hand but he is a very large paper supplier in the US. My 2 cents anyway.
-
If you read the sticky label holding together the bottom and the cover of the "Marly" boxes, it says "Made in Germany". So it will likely just continue to be made in Germany as it was in the past, this time without the Swiss flag, which indicated the head office of the company, not necessarily the place of manufacture. Of course these days only the company and the regulators know the detail of what those labels really mean.
Converting jumbo rolls to smaller rolls and sheets done in Germany is already enough to get the label Made in Germany. Swiss is not in the EU so doing that job in the EU could be a good decision considering import taxes. And yes, I doubt that all the Ilford media was coated in Marly. On the other hand it is unlikely that the Marly facility was only working for third parties while Ilford Imaging had all their Ilford labeled media made in Germany. The IGFS has so many clones that are indentical that it could have its origin in the Schoeller factory in Germany and it will be easy for the new Ilford undertaking to get it there too. It will be more interesting to check whether the RC quality like the Smooth Pearl is exactly the same, at least its paper white spectral plot was quite unique.
On patents; the Hahnemühle alternatives for Ilford products do not have the same characteristics.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Well regarding the label, as one of those hair-dye ads used to say: "only her hairdresser knows". As you know, there are content rules governing the label of origin, and Switzerland has about 210 trade treaties with the EU, which for most intents and purposes add-up to free movement of goods, services, people and capital between Switzerland and the EU. I suspect the dispersion of manufacturing components was largely determined by commercial considerations and the labeling needed to respect the EU's value-added/country of origin/labeling rules. Of course if the Marly plant was definitively closed-down, and if anything was done there with IGFS, it would now need to be done elsewhere. We will be depending on you, Ernst, to tell us whether the re-incarnated IGFS is the same as what we were all accustomed to. That will be the most important information going forward.
-
I suspect most of us have some sheets of IGFS that we can test against the new IGFS (if in fact it is new). Certainly Ernst's spectral data will be important and doing a color patch response test is also easily done. I did this a year or so ago for Museo when they change paper manufacturers for Silver Rag. The paper showed identical Dmax and color patch behavior compared to the earlier paper stock and I ended up getting a free roll of paper from the experience!!!
I have about 30 sheets of 13x19 IGFS that I haven't printed on yet and I'll save some to run a color test when the new stuff hits the shore here in the US. I'll throw in some of the Canson Baryta Photographique to see how that stacks up as well.
-
The production has been moved due to economic considerations but the formulas etc are the same. I was told that by a rep from CR Kennedy who are one of the co buyers.
-
The production has been moved due to economic considerations but the formulas etc are the same. I was told that by a rep from CR Kennedy who are one of the co buyers.
It's appropriate to bring out the old chestnut from the national security days of the cold war, "trust but verify." ;)
-
It's appropriate to bring out the old chestnut from the national security days of the cold war, "trust but verify." ;)
Hi Alan, of course, but the verification may be perfunctory based on the info in this useful article on the subject: http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/ (http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/). Seems as if they've bought all they need to maintain output as it was.
-
I seem to recall that the Ilford guy at the 'Kina told me that the current owner of Ilford was able to buy the whole operation, so formulae, machines, patents, everything. So the paper should be exactly the same as before. But it's true, as Lenin said, trust is good, control is better :-)
-
Hi Alan, of course, but the verification may be perfunctory based on the info in this useful article on the subject: http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/ (http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/content/view/2665/). Seems as if they've bought all they need to maintain output as it was.
Thanks, but I wonder why they didn't bother to post relevant information on the Ilford website. At any rate I will post my test results as soon as the new paper is available in the US.
-
They are likely developing a new website. I have been reliably informed the US will be getting this paper soon. I hope likewise for Canada.
-
They are likely developing a new website. I have been reliably informed the US will be getting this paper soon. I hope likewise for Canada.
http://www.ilford.com/sites/default/files/pressarticles/ILFORD_Press_Release_AMPLIS_FOTO_20140804.pdf says this month. I wonder how much "old" stock is still on dealer's shelves.
-
Thanks Alan, that's helpful.
-
In spectral plots the new production Ilford (N) Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl RC 310 grams comes close to the original old versions of 280 and 310 grams. Base material is the same. Coating spectral plot has a difference but that falls mainly outside the visual spectrum; a small hickup in the UV part more often found in RC media from the Far East; Fuji, Mitsubishi.
Ilford (N) Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl 310 gsm Lab 96.0 -0.2 -3.4 brown plotlines
Ilford Gal. Prestige Smooth Pearl 310 gsm Lab 94.3 0.0 -4.2 yellow plotlines
Ilford Gal. Smooth Pearl 280 gsm Lab 95.3 -0.1 -4.9 red plotlines
No new Photokina 2014 papers are added to the SpectrumViz list yet. I probably have to make about 30 new measurements but have no time yet.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Good to know Ernst. Are they producing yet and have you measured the new production of Gold Fibre Silk?
-
Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)
-
Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)
Between batches of the same paper there should be less difference. Between new production methods/facilities it is a good result. The reason I included the spectral plot of the earlier 280gsm Smooth Pearl production (sans Prestige :-) is to show what the old Ilford Imaging could achieve when the 280gsm was replaced by the 310 grams Prestige version.
The texture is identical, the gloss slightly less in the N product sample.
I'm not going to add more spectral plot images here but as expected the N Gold Fibre Silk spectral plot looks like the old one (and several other ones; Canson, Innova, etc) but is slightly higher in overall white reflection. Could be a fresher sample but I have identical higher white reflectance spectral plots of the Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta 310 and very interesting (as I was on a hunt for that much longer) of the Felix Schoeller J23160 True Baryta 310gsm. It is my guess that the last company has been the source for this paper much longer, they have the patents on baryta inkjet paper and supplied the baryta paper bases for silverhalide photo processes way before inkjet papers became available.
In best case I can add all the measurements within a week to SpectrumViz for download but till then you have to wait, nothing is added so far. There will be interesting new ones. I did not have time for the Breathing Color booth, the Tecco booth etc but anyone interested in having samples included can find my address.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Thanks Ernst, very interesting. In your view, does higher white reflectance indicate advisability to re-profile for using the new stock?
-
it will be interesting to see if these results change over the near(ish) term as they get perhaps get the new facilities 'dialed in'.
-
Thanks Ernst, very interesting. In your view, does higher white reflectance indicate advisability to re-profile for using the new stock?
I doubt that that is necessary based on the white reflectance, half a Delta E increase in L and when the supply chain is long you may not even get that, the b value might shift back to zero in the same time. Whether the coating behaves the same with the inks is more important for the profile match. It would be interesting to compare manufacturer's profiles for the 7 brand labels this paper meanwhile carries.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Thanks Ernst, useful to know. By the way, on GFS the b* value is +0.2. Close enough to 0 for all intents and purposes.
-
I'm not going to add more spectral plot images here but as expected the N Gold Fibre Silk spectral plot looks like the old one (and several other ones; Canson, Innova, etc) but is slightly higher in overall white reflection. Could be a fresher sample but I have identical higher white reflectance spectral plots of the Hahnemühle Photo Silk Baryta 310 and very interesting (as I was on a hunt for that much longer) of the Felix Schoeller J23160 True Baryta 310gsm. It is my guess that the last company has been the source for this paper much longer, they have the patents on baryta inkjet paper and supplied the baryta paper bases for silverhalide photo processes way before inkjet papers became available.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
I know Baryta darkroom paper has been around since the mid-1970s as I used to print on it. There was a French company that had one of the first formulations as Zone VI studios imported and re-branded it. I wouldn't think the process of applying baryta would be different between darkroom and inkjet paper but maybe it is and a second patent was issued. Do you happen to know the date of issuance of the inkjet baryta paper patent? I wonder if it's nearing expiration.
-
Google this: >Felix Schoeller patent inkjet< and add barium for a more specific search. 1995 to 2003 for several patents. Barium Sulphate has been used in photo papers since 1884. Whether it is reasonable to patent an existing baryta paper base used for inkjet, with or without an extra inkjet coating, is another matter, the patent industry works like that. There is mention of an additional aluminium oxide coating in one of Schoeller's patents, I recall a Harman paper with a similar component.
The main point is that Felix Schoeller was involved in baryta inkjet paper research at that time and had a past in manufacturing baryta photo papers for Agfa Gevaert and other companies before that date . You can find Mitsubishi and Kodak patents for similar paper compositions, there will be more.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
-
Are those numbers within normal manufacturing tolerances? (even w/o actually changing factories?)
Measuring more of the new Ilford samples I see that what used to be a set of equal paper white RC papers; Smooth Pearl, Smooth Gloss, Semi Gloss Duo, is no longer equal. The new Smooth Pearl has the most resemblance to the old Smooth Pearl paper white, the other two have more OBA content and are cooler than the old qualities. Also about -3 cooler than the Lab numbers in the new documentation sheets suggest!!
Within 30 minutes I will upload SpectrumViz with the new Ilford samples added, the old ones are in the obsolete papers map. The samples book I got does not have all the papers that are shown on the Ilford website, the matte art papers are not included.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.