Teaching the Monkey

[sertsa]

Not that this is thread going anywhere useful, but didn't realize Lois's reply was to my comment.  Why would there be contempt for the appreciation of somebody recognizing that their personal growth might just be an illusion.  Don't hear a ===woooosh==== over my head, but it may be there. 

[Rob C]

Not that this is thread going anywhere useful, but didn't realize Lois's reply was to my comment.  Why would there be contempt for the appreciation of somebody recognizing that their personal growth might just be an illusion.  Don't hear a ===woooosh==== over my head, but it may be there. 

I'd stop looking and listening - I don't think it's flying anywhere near your head...

Rob C

[Isaac]

I don't think it's flying anywhere near your head...

Only LoisWakeman knows.

Do you think there's any merit in throwing rocks from the sidelines into a scrum?

[Rob C]

Only LoisWakeman knows.

Do you think there's any merit in throwing rocks from the sidelines into a scrum?

Unquestionably; you can knock all of the contestant out and be fair.

Rob C

[Isaac]

Unquestionably; you can knock all of the contestant out and be fair.

Where's the merit in throwing rocks from the sidelines?

[Rob C]

Where's the merit in throwing rocks from the sidelines?

With luck, they don't bounce right back.

Rob C

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Are you guys competing for the weirdest thread exchange of 2012?

[Isaac]

No, not the weirdest - just the dullest evasions.

[Rob C]

No, not the weirdest - just the dullest evasions.

Okay - I award you the prize.

Rob C

[LoisWakeman]

Hi Isaac,

I seem to have stirred up a dust devil here 

I think maybe I responded to the wrong post, but someone was wondering why women didn't participate more on aesthetic discussions here, followed by a remark along the lines that perhaps it was the difficulty of the technical aspects. As a science graduate and self-confessed geekess, that really made me bridle.

But in general, the occasional tendency to macho insults and what sometimes seems like deliberate misconstruction as an excuse for rudeness, rather than reasoned discussion, rather puts me off participating more.

I know it is fashionable to be far more abrasive online than one would be in person, but I try to pretend that an online forum is like any other community. Not always successfully, obviously, given the heated reaction to my remark.

Does that make sense?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Wouldn't that be an exception that proves the rule?

[LoisWakeman]

I know lots of geeks, of both sexes. Just goes to show how sad I am, I guess.

[Isaac]

... perhaps it was the difficulty of the technical aspects. ... that really made me bridle.

I would just ask that, when it's something particular, you click the quote button rather than the reply button, and snip the quote down to the most egregious text, like this -

OTOH if you have a look at "Magnum" females are not that many... Maybe photography doesn't suit them as other arts, I don't know the reason, but I suspect that it has to do with the knowledge of technical matters such as aperture or focal length, angles or perspective control and DOF that are involved in the process.

So what problems jump-right-out?
- Why should "Magnum" be considered a representative sample of photographers?
- Which other arts?
- What is the gender breakdown in those other arts?
We haven't even established that there is a different gender breakdown in photography compared to "other arts", but there's still that rush to explain (what we don't even know exists) using a belittling caricature. [Maybe that wasn't how it was supposed to read, English not always the first language.]

the occasional tendency to macho insults and what sometimes seems like deliberate misconstruction as an excuse for rudeness, rather than reasoned discussion, rather puts me off participating more.

I'm new here - but it does seem to me very much a boy's club, and more than that an old boy's club, with all the negative connotations.

... the heated reaction to my remark.

Storm in a teacup.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I'm new here - but it does seem to me very much a boy's club, and more than that an old boy's club, with all the negative connotations...

Maybe because you are new here? Those of us who've been around a while (old or not) know perfectly well that we welcome and encourage and ask directly for more female participation. And those female photographers who chose to contribute collaboratively rather than combatively are surely aware of the warm and sincere welcome by us, "old boys".

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... We haven't even established that there is a different gender breakdown in photography compared to "other arts", but there's still that rush to explain (what we don't even know exists) using a belittling caricature. ...

Gee, Isaac, wasn't it you who posted this link:

fwiw Why are there so few? (Creative women: Visual artists, mathematicians, scientists, musicians)

[LoisWakeman]

I would just ask that, when it's something particular, you click the quote button rather than the reply button, and snip the quote down to the most egregious text,

Yeah - not very clever for a supposed geek, was it? I'm more used to forums with proper threading, so get a bit lazy I suppose!   

[Isaac]

Gee, Isaac, wasn't it you who posted this link:

Yes, and from your response I get the impression that you haven't read further than the title.

[Isaac]

Yeah - not very clever for a supposed geek, was it?

I consider it an example of major personal growth that I didn't point that out to you :-)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Yes, and from your response I get the impression that you haven't read further than the title.

Ah, the usual hiding behind quotes and patronizing.

[Isaac]

Ah, the usual hiding behind quotes and patronizing.

The only words I quoted were the words I was replying to - your words - just as you have quoted my words in your comment.

Gee, Isaac, wasn't it you who posted this link

I read that as sarcasm. The sarcasm suggests that you think there's something about that article which conflicts with those words of mine. But you don't say what in that article you think conflicts with those quoted words of mine, and that leads me to think your comment was solely based on the article title.

You've stopped at sarcasm, you haven't moved the discussion forward.

Here's a quote for you -

But in general, the occasional tendency to macho insults and what sometimes seems like deliberate misconstruction as an excuse for rudeness, rather than reasoned discussion, rather puts me off participating more.