PDN Forum ---Why Has It Lost It's Luster

[Rob C]

Wracked by self-doubt? As a consultant? 

You know what they say about consultants: someone who's called in at the last minute to share the blame.

That alone can make them worth the fee!

Rob C

[Craig Lamson]

Hmm. She's certainly not wracked by self-doubt, is she?

Jeremy

I'm not a prude by any means but quite frankly her use of foul language is down right ugly.  I don't really care how much sense she makes, the presentation makes her useless to me.

[amsp]

I'm not a prude by any means but quite frankly her use of foul language is down right ugly.  I don't really care how much sense she makes, the presentation makes her useless to me.

Funny cause quite frankly I find it refreshing. She writes like most people talk, at least people from my generation. And the no-nonsense straight to the point way she presents herself appeals very much to me. Like her I'm quite sick of smarmy, politically correct, corporate bullshit. Sorry you can't get past that because she's got some interesting things to say.

[siebel]

Funny cause quite frankly I find it refreshing. She writes like most people talk, at least people from my generation. And the no-nonsense straight to the point way she presents herself appeals very much to me. Like her I'm quite sick of smarmy, politically correct, corporate bullshit. Sorry you can't get past that because she's got some interesting things to say.

I'm with you all the way on this. If someone is spouting BS here, which sadly, is becoming more frequent, I'd rather someone call them out.Bullshit is bullshit by any other name. I like my answers straight and I detest misinformation being passed off as fact. If the language used is a little colourful, well, I'll put up with it provided the content is valuable. I'm tired of ignorant twits spouting nonsense and having everyone tiptoe around the issue. How are people supposed to learn if suspect statements and practices aren't challenged and tested in the most robust terms? This forum descends into mediocrity and irrelevance if the conversations are not able to be robust, just because a small number of individuals might take offence. A spade should be called a spade.
I used to follow PDN also, but it descended into mediocrity because the few truly knowledgeable contributors got tired of the low-level pedantry and sudden volume of chatter from measurebators.
This particular area, supposedly being for pros, should be the most robust of all. I, for one, have been shooting high-end ads internationally for 20+ years and I'm happy to muck-in here to share and learn in equal measure. However, if I have to pussyfoot around all the time, then I'll go play elsewhere. I'm pretty sure this is what killed the PDN forums and hope it doesn't happen here.
Cheers,

[Jeremy Roussak]

I'm with you all the way on this. If someone is spouting BS here, which sadly, is becoming more frequent, I'd rather someone call them out.Bullshit is bullshit by any other name. I like my answers straight and I detest misinformation being passed off as fact. If the language used is a little colourful, well, I'll put up with it provided the content is valuable. I'm tired of ignorant twits spouting nonsense and having everyone tiptoe around the issue. How are people supposed to learn if suspect statements and practices aren't challenged and tested in the most robust terms? This forum descends into mediocrity and irrelevance if the conversations are not able to be robust, just because a small number of individuals might take offence.

I think you're confusing robustness of expression with coarseness of language. I relish the first and would hope that it long remains here. I'm not bothered in the least by the second, but others are. If someone is able to convey his (or indeed her) argument only by swearing, it would be best for him to remain silent until his knowledge of language and/or capacity for self-restraint improves.

A spade should be called a spade.

Agreed. It doesn't need to be called a f*****g shovel, however.1

Jeremy

1 Yes, thanks, I know that a spade and a shovel are different implements.

[K.C.]

I think you're confusing robustness of expression with coarseness of language. I relish the first and would hope that it long remains here. I'm not bothered in the least by the second, but others are. If someone is able to convey his (or indeed her) argument only by swearing, it would be best for him to remain silent until his knowledge of language and/or capacity for self-restraint improves.

Well said and I agree completely.

Too often rude language is a tool to infer frankness and engender camaraderie, but it's simply manipulation. But no worries Leslie has been working on her law degree and will find herself in like company. The consulting trade has languished along with the decline of the pro photo market so she's moving on.

Another quote of her's regarding LuLa:

"Actually, I do know some real pros who try to participate, to raise the level and educate, but they rarely last and are always very frustrated at the attitudes shown on that site."

In case anyone has doubts, you'l find the thread here: http://prophotoforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=5295&highlight=#5295

[Jeremy Roussak]

Well said and I agree completely.

Too often rude language is a tool to infer frankness and engender camaraderie, but it's simply manipulation. But no worries Leslie has been working on her law degree and will find herself in like company. The consulting trade has languished along with the decline of the pro photo market so she's moving on.

Another quote of her's regarding LuLa:

"Actually, I do know some real pros who try to participate, to raise the level and educate, but they rarely last and are always very frustrated at the attitudes shown on that site."

In case anyone has doubts, you'l find the thread here: http://prophotoforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=5295&highlight=#5295

The lawyers I know are pretty careful with language. Swearing is usually counter-productive, whether used with clients, with opponents or (particularly!) in court.

Now I've read that thread I realise why she's not interested in the forums here. There's little opportunity for profit.

Jeremy

[Schewe]

One thing about LuLa that at least some of the people on that other forums doesn't understand is that LuLa is a much international in scope. Sure a lot of Americans are posting here but I would suspect posts from the USA would only make up about 50 to 60% of the posts here. That makes talking about a single country business status and dealing with clients different here. The PDN forum was even more insular dealing largely with eastern US/NYC business.

That's one of the refreshing things about LuLa...it's global by nature. I find it interesting to get various views.

[fredjeang]

One thing about LuLa that at least some of the people on that other forums doesn't understand is that LuLa is a much international in scope. Sure a lot of Americans are posting here but I would suspect posts from the USA would only make up about 50 to 60% of the posts here. That makes talking about a single country business status and dealing with clients different here. The PDN forum was even more insular dealing largely with eastern US/NYC business.

That's one of the refreshing things about LuLa...it's global by nature. I find it interesting to get various views.

Yeah, but there is something missing in Lu-La : girls !

Where are the girls ?

[K.C.]

Women have far more sense.

I wouldn't go that far. They just have different obsessions and ways to spend their (our ?) money.

[Rob C]

I wouldn't go that far. They just have different obsessions and ways to spend their (our ?) money.

Depends on the women: some are far from spendthrift - unless the type to find a suggar daddy who equates their 'love' with how much it costs, which of course, is back to male stupidity again. In my experience (not as a sugar daddy, neither rich nor desperate enough), women are far more canny and aware of the financial postition of themselves, their partnership/marriage/business. Unfortunately, even when they get to positions of high power - à la Maggie - they are still sabotaged by the cupidity, selfishness, ego and pride of their male counterparts.

But Fred's right: we had some here - women - but they appear to have shrugged their pretty shoulders and left for sweeter places. (I was going to write 'pastures new', but realised that might be taken as insulting, so I didn't. And it wasn't meant to be, had it been so written.) My goodness, all this mental trouble and it's only 10.15 in the morning! How will I conquer the day? I know, more cellpix! That'll fix it; so calming!

Rob C

[nightfire]

The equipment and technique related obsessive compulsive disorder is primarily a male thang.

Women have far more sense.

Not all of them. I recently manage to talk a friend of mine into dumping her entry-level DSLR (with which she had been perfectly happy until then) for a semi-pro model. It wasn't really that hard... just showed her what mine could do while Christmas shopping season was on She insisted on keeping her old kit lens though. We'll fix that later