Topic: Spraying with problems (Read 5381 times)

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **on:** October 30, 2011, 06:13:38 pm »

Quick question guys. I figured out why my corners and sides were cracking a little. It was because I wasnt using ENOUGH coating. You had to put it to the light to actually see the gloss finish. Well, I started to spray a little more and with quicker motions and got what looks like ripples from the ocean on one area of the print. Is this because the output isn't consistent with my sprayer? Is it too much coating that causes this? Is it the angle that I'm laying down the print at to spray? I'm attaching 2 pictures so you can see what I'm talking about. The first picture is where the ripples are at, the second is with no ripples on same print. Sorry for the horrible picture quality (cell phone).
I'm spraying Timeless on Lyve

John Nollendorfs · « **Reply #1 on:** October 30, 2011, 06:49:53 pm »

It's kind of hard to say exactly what your problem is without knowing what canvas, what spray material you are using and what sprayer you are using.

But off hand from your description of "ripples" it sounds like the viscosity of the coating is too thick. But usually, if the viscosity is too high, the sprayer can't spray it. Most sprayer come with a viscosity measuring tool. Generally you move the sprayer in nice even motion that extends over the sides. You need good light to see how thick you are putting the material down. The strokes should overlap by 1/4 to 1/3, resulting in an even application.

There is some technique involved, and if you have no prior experience and no one to give you hands on tips, you may want to consider roller application instead.

Another question, are you putting your canvas vertically, or horizontally.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #2 on:** October 30, 2011, 08:37:56 pm »

It seemed to start happening once I opened the spray nozzle more. I'm gonna drop it back down to a fine mist see if that helps. Problem with that is, I can never get my coating to look like it looks when you roll it on (very milky all over). This is the sprayer I'm using http://www.lowes.com/pd_326051-89183-HV1900USG_4294775051_4294937087_?productId=3142755&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Sprayers%2BHVLP_4294775051_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

I'm placing the image horizontally and spraying left and right and then up and down.

ftbt · « **Reply #3 on:** October 30, 2011, 09:56:53 pm »

I spray Glamour 2 on Lyve, day in, day out, with a Wagner Control Max HVLP sprayer and have no problems whatsoever. I do know that Timeless dries quicker than Glamour 2. Also, is your Graco unit a HVLP sprayer? That might make a difference? I typically spray 4 coats (a coat being one vertical and one horizontal pass-w-15 minutes drying time between each pass) and that seems to provide sufficient coverage and no cracking.

fetish · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2011, 02:31:02 am »

Quote from: rgvsdigitalpimp on October 30, 2011, 08:37:56 pm

It seemed to start happening once I opened the spray nozzle more. I'm gonna drop it back down to a fine mist see if that helps. Problem with that is, I can never get my coating to look like it looks when you roll it on (very milky all over). This is the sprayer I'm using http://www.lowes.com/pd_326051-89183-HV1900USG_4294775051_4294937087_?productId=3142755&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Sprayers%2BHVLP_4294775051_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

I'm placing the image horizontally and spraying left and right and then up and down.

the coating is too thick. you sprayed too much in a single passing.
go for the same method as ftbt and you'll be fine.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2011, 01:48:20 pm »

Thanks guys. Before I run out and buy a Wagner Control Max, I'm gonna reduce the output of my spray gun and try that method, ft. I'll keep you all updated on how it works out. I was spraying small amounts before but this is what was causing cracking (not enough) so I'll make sure and do extra passes to coat it pretty good.

Luca Ragogna · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2011, 02:21:05 pm »

My guess is that you're moving to the next "row" while the gun is still spraying the edge of the canvas.

Technique is important when spraying. You want to keep the gun perpendicular to the surface of the print. So don't swing your arm, move your entire body and arm back and forth so that the gun is always the same distance from the print and always at the same angle (90°) to the surface. Start and stop spraying off the print. So start moving the gun, pull the trigger before reaching the edge of the print continue moving at a constant speed and don't stop spraying or moving until you're off the other side. Then move the gun over to make the next pass. I like to do light, quick passes left to right, then I turn the spray nozzle and do another quick pass top to bottom. Kind of like a grid pattern, I just keep going until I've built up a good coat and then I let it dry down for 15 minutes and repeat for a second coat.

You might also find it's helpful to hang the print vertically instead of laying it flat. It makes it easier to keep the gun distance and angle constant.

John Nollendorfs · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2011, 03:08:20 pm »

I also noticed that on syphon feed type guns, it helps to have the container at least half full of material. Makes for a steadier application.

Lot of good technique tips given here. To really gauge how even your application is going on, you need good light coming at an angle so you can see reflection of the wet coat.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2011, 09:23:33 am »

I cant find a Wagner Control Max HVLP at any local hardware store? I need to order it online?

fetish · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2011, 11:47:19 am »

i think what you have is good enough. you just need to work on your coating viscosity and spraying technique.

Light Seeker · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2011, 03:27:35 pm »

Quote from: rgvsdigitalpimp on November 01, 2011, 09:23:33 am

I cant find a Wagner Control Max HVLP at any local hardware store? I need to order it online?

Are you in Canada? I was unable to find a Control Spray Max in Regina so I picked up a Control Spray Double Duty. It's essentially the same thing, but the compressor is in the hand unit, rather than in a separate unit connected using a hose.

Terry.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2011, 03:35:23 pm »

Fet, how do I modify the viscosity of the gloss if it's Timeless? I can't really mix it with anything to make it thinner or thicker?

John Nollendorfs · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:09:40 pm »

Have you checked the viscosity with the tool they provide with most sprayers? As I've stated before, if the viscosity is too high, the sprayer will not output a very good mist. I don't think you have to worry about it being too low! I don't use "timeless" myself, but if the viscosity is too high, adding a small amount of water should not hurt. But do not pour this diluted mixture into original container for use later!

Try your sprayer with plain water and notice the quality of the spray. This should give you a good reference. You have not answered whether you are spraying with the print attached to a wall, or laying flat. I prefer the wall position, but if you get it on a bit too much, it will tend to run.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:11:08 pm »

John, Im spraying at almost a 45 degree angle. Kind of slanted.

John Nollendorfs · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2011, 10:57:20 pm »

That would explain the "wavy" look. If it had been vertical, you would have gotten a "run". This means you need to move the gun slightly faster.

John Nollendorfs · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2011, 11:21:10 pm »

Read the directions on using Timeless! Notice they say you can dilute with up to 10% water.
http://www.breathingcolor.com/bc/catalog/includes/Timeless_hvlp.pdf
Sounds more like you need to thin slightly to get a good spray pattern! Use the viscosity testing device.

On spraying technique, practice spraying just plain water trying to get even coating on cardboard or heavy paper. Practice with the spray gun closer and further from the surface and note the results. The recommended distance is 6-8 inches, but that could vary depending on how material you are using sprays.

Spraying should be a lot lighter application compared to rolling. Thats why most do 2 to 4 coats. Everyone finds application methods that work best for them. All I can recommend is that you practice. If you can, see if you can get first hand tips on spraying from a professional painter.

Good luck.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2011, 12:04:06 am »

Thanks for all the tips guys! I'm writing all this down. Here's the end result from spraying on all black print with 3 different spray levels. I believe it was two coats total. Is this lack of spray? Or too much spray? This smokey foggy look?

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2011, 12:20:14 am »

I just finished spraying an actual photo print again (4th print of same thing because of issues) and took Paul at Breathing Color's advice to only do one coat and take pictures to see what it looked like. I then did a second coat about 20min later. Here's the dissapointing results. Now that I look at it, it seems as if I need to dilute with water, right? I'll take more pictures in the morning after an all night dry session.

dgberg · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2011, 01:06:23 pm »

Looks like several things may be going on here.
Looks like your gun is not atomizing.
May be a combination of material being slightly too thick and not the best quality sprAy gun.
Checking the viscosity of your Timeless will answer that question.
As others have already stated a little water will fix that.
Your gun has to break the material into a fine mist,doesn't look like that is happening.
I spray with Binks HVLP rigs in my professional spray booth and although it is not necessary to spend that kind of money the right equipment makes all the difference in the world.
If you have not seen the YouTube videos on spraying varnish it is the first place to start.
One comment,do not try to get the white film look you get when rolling.
That's not what you want to do, light mist coats,dry, then more light coats.
As soon as I saw those sags you were just applying too much material.
5 minutes in person would have you straightened out.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #19 on:** November 02, 2011, 02:12:26 pm »

Dan! Your across the country and wife is expecting soon. I wish I could make the trip out there but almost impossible right now

I showed the images to BC and they said it's more than likely my gun. I'm going to order the Wagner Control Spray Plus HVLP gun too bad I have to wait for it to be shipped. No local Home Depot or anything carries it.

Author Topic: Spraying with problems (Read 5381 times)