Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 15   Go Down

Author Topic: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability  (Read 104662 times)

jeffok

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
    • http://www.insightscapes.com
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #180 on: October 21, 2011, 11:13:48 pm »

Different people have different needs and wants from a camera, but this is the kind of photography I do: I shoot 99% of the time at ISO 100. I don't need high ISOs. I shoot 99% of the time in single shot mode. I don't need high FPS. My goal is large prints (17" wide paper) at the highest possible resolution, ideally a minimum of 300 DPI. I would love to have an entire MF setup, but I just can't afford it. I can just about afford my 1DsIII and a couple of really good Canon lenses, and with that I almost reach my DPI goal on 17" paper. So while I have no doubt that the 1DX is a phenomenal camera which will make many photographers very happy, I don't think it's enough to get me to upgrade.

I'm really hoping Canon has something else up their sleeve coming up in the near future. But at the same time I'm very happy with my 1DsIII. My only serious complaint is that manual focus on the low resolution LCD in Live View is an exercise in frustration. Frankly, if Canon had come out with a 1DsIV with the high resolution LCD, HDMI output, and even a slight bump in resolution (24MP, say), that might have been enough for me. But for 18MP I just don't see the point.

I agree with you. People have different needs, but I suspect that most landscape photographers and many others shoot in the 100-400 ISO range 90% of the time. And so if you own a IDs3 like I do, there is no way to rationalize an upgrade to the 1Dx. I seriously doubt that the difference in IQ within that ISO range would be observable in a print, and so it really comes down to how much of your shooting is in relative darkness where this new camera's advantages become apparent. In high or low light, I use a tripod for much of the work I do to get the best possible image, and so even with a 1Dx, handheld shots in low light would be rare in my case. In sum, if you are a journalist, sports photographer or perhaps a wedding photographer I can see merit in the 1Dx. Otherwise, there is no compelling advantage of this camera over the 1Ds3. I don't see the 1Dx as a real leap forward for Canon, but rather a attempt to reduce manufacturing and marketing costs by taking a firm step toward the middle of the pro market.
Logged

Sareesh Sudhakaran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 546
    • The Indie Farm
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #181 on: October 22, 2011, 12:40:46 am »

I don't know enough about the new technology
You're also a$$uming that 21 mpx with an old sensor is better than an 18mpx camera with newer technology. I don't think you are correct in this a$$sumption, as I will bet the future will reflect
Maybe you ought to stop jumping to conclusions so fast, Bernard, and wait to see what the facts are before forming your opinions.
Therefore, at this point, all we can do is wait and see.

Here's a man who knows how to contradict himself:

Quote
It is now FF, and it has an improved sensor to get more out of 18mpx than the previous versions got out of the 20+ range. So, yes, there is a plateau in mpx if you expect your camera to excel in other, relevant ways.
The truth is, most people will not be able to tell the difference between a shot taken by the 1DX shot and a shot taken by the D3x, side-by-side.
Will this camera be able to shoot a static scene at the same quality shots as a Hasselblad? No.
But as an all-around sports, wildlife, and action camera, it will have no equal anywhere.

How childish, Mr. Koemer...please grow up.
Logged
Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.

Bryan Conner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 539
    • My Flickr page
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #182 on: October 22, 2011, 02:01:16 am »


Will this camera be able to shoot a static scene at the same quality shots as a Hasselblad? No.

But as an all-around sports, wildlife, and action camera, it will have no equal anywhere.

Jack

Quite a ridiculous statement.  Your statement means that this Canon model will be the best sports, wildlife and action camera of all time...no future camera will be able to surpass it.  LOL.  I imagine that after reading your statement, stocks of all camera makers will plummet!  There is no reason to continue competing.  ::)

Logged

adam z

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #183 on: October 22, 2011, 04:14:35 am »

I have been holding out for some time to see a replacement for the 1Ds3, and as attractive as this camera is, it's not what I wanted. That being said, I think it would be perfect for the majority of the work I do. Yes, I know that is a contradiction, but let me explain.

The 1D X will work perfectly for portraits (my main subject), especially when there are children. I don't usually shoot sports, but I do sometimes need to shoot live music in dim conditions. With improved AF, metering and high iso, this camera would work very well. My hope is that they release a high res body (perhaps a 3d?) built like a 1 series but in a smaller package (I actually prefer the full size 1 series cameras, but I doubt that a non 1 series will be built that way). That way they can keep the 5D as a base model full frame, and have a well built, smaller, slower, higher resolution version of the 1 series in the 28-32mp range would suit me, but if they keep the quality high enough at base iso, I don't mid them adding more pixels than that. I mostly want the high res camera for landscape work for the next 3-4 years. Hopefully after that I can afford a used back and an alpa with a few lenses for my landscapes.
Logged

bokehcambodia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
    • bokehcambodia
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #184 on: October 22, 2011, 06:41:46 am »

After digesting the announcement, making up my mind in the last fews days and reading this thread i felt to share my thoughts [which might turn out BS].

Canon merging the 1D/s line tells me that the sports/journalist/videographers 1D line is where Canon sees the major sales, and needed to announce the 1Dx for the Olympics in time [beating Nikon with an annoucement to tell the photography world that Canon still is king of the road].
With a FF sensor, 12fps and great high ISO all three segments are well served, and if you need more reach, either buy longer lenses or crop, Canon seems to think.
Maybe a Canon 1DX MKII will offer an in-camera crop factor [see Nikon] when the sensor again reaches more MP in its next iteration.
[Right now, to offer a crop of lets say 15MP is not that exiting, but i think they should have done it, anyway].

After the 5DMKII cannibalized the 1Ds sales the percentage of 1D to 1Ds went even more south. Same image quality, more features - pros also have to look after their $.
Having two flagship cameras no more made sense to Canon.
The death of the 1Ds lineup was planned years ago, when the 5DMKII was on its way to market. Units were built on demand, times with no stock levels showed that Canon kept it very low...

The 5DMKIII [or a 3D, who knows] will take the place of the 1Ds as a high-res sensor camera.
To think that Canon stopped the pixel race, is wrong imho.
This new camera with a more rugged body - the competition offers better sealed, rugged bodies at that price range as of now - but no included grip, will be a great tool for landscape shooters, and users looking for a more lightweight option.
Increase the prize of the MKIII and justify it by giving users a better AF and rugged body [Canon seams to increase their prices continuously for lenses due to higher costs, margins].
5DMKIII for $3499-3799, lets say?

Also possible is making the 5DMIII the new videographer focused camera [the 5dMKII started the craze] and a new line, 3D, going 30+ MP...
This product line transition will show its face with the next camera announced [sooner than later], to think Canon has nothing else planned with their lineup, is wrong imho.

Feedback welcome.

JohnKoerner

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #185 on: October 22, 2011, 08:56:09 am »

Quite a ridiculous statement.  Your statement means that this Canon model will be the best sports, wildlife and action camera of all time...no future camera will be able to surpass it.  LOL.  I imagine that after reading your statement, stocks of all camera makers will plummet!  There is no reason to continue competing.  ::)


More like: quite a ridiculous twist on your part of what I actually said.

Of the current cameras, I do believe the Canon will stand out for the reasons already stated.

However, I spoke nothing of "all time," of the possibilities for future cameras, of stocks plummeting, nor of any other silliness that you said.

These were entirely the fabrications of your own mind.

Jack


.
Logged

JohnKoerner

  • Guest
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #186 on: October 22, 2011, 09:12:00 am »

Here's a man who knows how to contradict himself:

I see your point here ... I fell into the same prognostication trap ... so well taken.




How childish, Mr. Koemer...please grow up.

You need to get real.

The truth is, every time a brand new "Flagship" product comes out from any major photography company, all of us as photographers tend get a little excited to see what new advances there are (like kids), and there is nothing wrong with either excitement or expectation.

However, to try to put on airs and act otherwise is ingenuine.

Jack


.
Logged

fotometria gr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • www.fotometria.gr
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #187 on: October 22, 2011, 10:01:35 am »

Hi,

I guess that it could be that the mysterious 5DIII may be the 1Ds replacement. The 1DX is intended for folks needing high ISO, high FPS and very solid body. A cheaper, lighter and slower specified body for those needing high resolution. May make sense.

Best regards
Erik

Erik, I am surprised that no one can see that this is the replacement for the 1DS and everybody is addressing the reasoning (of not being the replacement) to the insignificant decrease of the mpx count of the camera! The downsize was done to improve IQ in all aspects of photography, resolution included. The later is because the insignificant loss of 8% in resolution, means that a print made at 200dpi with one camera, the same print would have been done at 216dpi with the other, the difference in dpi is insignificant to produce a visible reduction in quality, but experience has proven that you print better from better pixel definition. Its the same like printing an image from a MFDB of say 16mpx and then print with say a 1DS3 at the same size of print, the DB will beat it, although it will print at less dpi. In fact I expect to see the 5d3 with the same or similar sensor, I make this quote, because we had that previous discussion about what size of pixel is the perfect one (in todays tech) and although our thoughts (you thinking of considerably less size than my thinking) are both motivated by instinct and up to now experience, I feel that with Nikon (4 years ago) and now Canon deciding on lower res sensors than (most) people expected, it seems to me that sensor construction is not as advanced as you think to create a HQ image and retain high mpx density at the same time. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Logged

fotometria gr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • www.fotometria.gr
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #188 on: October 22, 2011, 10:25:26 am »

Here's a man who knows how to contradict himself:

How childish, Mr. Koemer...please grow up.
I don't see any reasoning from you on Mr. Koemer's correct quotes... just an unjustified attack without any reasoning, can you please comment  on where you do disagree on his comments, why he doesn't know how to contradict himself and what makes him appear a kid that has to grow up? Are you just another one that confused his screen with your mirror? Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Logged

adam z

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #189 on: October 22, 2011, 10:32:49 am »

We are all just going to wait and see:

a) how good same size prints actually are from the 1D X vs the 1Ds MkIII at low ISO. It is pretty difficult to make judgements on numbers and theories

 
b) if Canon do bring something out with significantly higher resolution or not

and

c) what the competition (Nikon and Sony in particular) bring out next to replace D700, D3s, and D3X - and of course how these new cameras compare to the 1D X once they eventuate.

It doesnt make it easy with a new camera announced, but having to wait months to see what it is actually like. Just gives us time to speculate without seeing what this machine is actually capable of. Oh well, time will tell.
Logged

fotometria gr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • www.fotometria.gr
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #190 on: October 22, 2011, 10:41:19 am »

Quite a ridiculous statement.  Your statement means that this Canon model will be the best sports, wildlife and action camera of all time...no future camera will be able to surpass it.  LOL.  I imagine that after reading your statement, stocks of all camera makers will plummet!  There is no reason to continue competing.  ::)


Quite a ridiculous statement. When did you last read "logic" by Aristoteles (the inventor of logic as science)? You have twisted everything that the man (correctly) quoted. Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
Logged

Chris_Brown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 974
  • Smile dammit!
    • Chris Brown Photography
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #191 on: October 22, 2011, 11:03:03 am »

I am looking forward to the new chip design. I still prefer the IQ from my 1Ds2 over my 1Ds3.
Logged
~ CB

Sareesh Sudhakaran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 546
    • The Indie Farm
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #192 on: October 22, 2011, 11:11:55 am »

I don't see any reasoning from you on Mr. Koemer's correct quotes... just an unjustified attack without any reasoning, can you please comment  on where you do disagree on his comments, why he doesn't know how to contradict himself and what makes him appear a kid that has to grow up? Are you just another one that confused his screen with your mirror? Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr

Maybe it's the English, Theodoros, as others who have replied to you in the past have pointed out. And regarding the contradiction, Mr. Koerner has already replied:

Quote
I see your point here ... I fell into the same prognostication trap ... so well taken.

A new word for you: Epistemology. Poor Aristotle doesn't stand a chance.
Logged
Get the Free Comprehensive Guide to Rigging ANY Camera - one guide to rig them all - DSLRs to the Arri Alexa.

torger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3267
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #193 on: October 22, 2011, 11:23:43 am »

I do hope that someone will produce high-resolution 135 format sensor, Canon or Nikon, preferably around 5 µm pixel pitch that this about 34 megapixels so we can actually see how such as sensor will perform. It seems like large pixel pitch is an advantage for lowlight photography, and even if it was not the photon shot noise will naturally limit the resolution so a high pixel count would be meaningless. It is also hard to exceed about 12 megapixels in sharpness if the camera is handheld. Obviously the 1D-X sensor aims at these applications and I think it will be very good at it.

However, I will be surprised if this sensor provides anything extra at base ISO. At base ISO you can have smaller pixel pitch and still have good dynamic range. As I have mentioned before the Phase One IQ180 actually has only about 5 µm pixel pitch, and it's dynamic range is said to be good. That Canon marketing says 1D-X sensor is an improvement in image quality regardless of ISO may be true compared to their own sensors which has had dynamic range problems compared to the competition, mainly due to pattern noise. I don't think it will produce a better ISO100 photos than the Nikon D3x from 2008.

Looking at the previous generation Nikon D3x (small pixel pitch, specialised at high res) vs D3s (large pixel pitch, specialised at lowlight), the sensors have similar noise levels and dynamic range at base ISO, which one is better I dare not say, there are so many things you can do wrong when comparing sensors with different pixel pitch (usually to the disadvantage for the sensr with smaller pixels), but it is clear that there is not a huge difference despite very large difference in pixel size. The D3x loses at high ISO of course, but if you shoot mainly at base ISO from a tripod clearly a big pixel size is not what you need. Unless there is some revolutionary new technology in the new 1D-X sensor which provides radically improved dynamic range at base ISO and this only works with large pixels. That could be the case, but I don't think it is likely.
Logged

stevesanacore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #194 on: October 22, 2011, 12:43:18 pm »

That would require tying up hundreds of millions of dollars of investment to create a medium format camera, and the lenses for it, etc. and to market it so that just is not going to happen, because they would likely never recoup the investment or even in the best case scenario recoup it in a timely manner and then start turning a profit on it. Canon is fundamentally a conservative company and I cannot see anyone in management seriously proposing that Canon's board of directors pull that trigger. While I personally  would love that camera or that to happen to see that idea come to fruition, I wouldn't bet on it: the world-wide market is just too small to justify it. But I do not doubt that they have the technological chops to do it.

Canon's Photographic Group is in the business to generate profits, not commit suicide.

Sadly, I do agree with you. But I thought I should at least pass on the info from who used to be a very reliable source.
Logged
We don't know what we don't know.

stevesanacore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #195 on: October 22, 2011, 01:01:51 pm »

Erik, I am surprised that no one can see that this is the replacement for the 1DS and everybody is addressing the reasoning (of not being the replacement) to the insignificant decrease of the mpx count of the camera! The downsize was done to improve IQ in all aspects of photography, resolution included. The later is because the insignificant loss of 8% in resolution, means that a print made at 200dpi with one camera, the same print would have been done at 216dpi with the other, the difference in dpi is insignificant to produce a visible reduction in quality, but experience has proven that you print better from better pixel definition. Its the same like printing an image from a MFDB of say 16mpx and then print with say a 1DS3 at the same size of print, the DB will beat it, although it will print at less dpi. In fact I expect to see the 5d3 with the same or similar sensor, I make this quote, because we had that previous discussion about what size of pixel is the perfect one (in todays tech) and although our thoughts (you thinking of considerably less size than my thinking) are both motivated by instinct and up to now experience, I feel that with Nikon (4 years ago) and now Canon deciding on lower res sensors than (most) people expected, it seems to me that sensor construction is not as advanced as you think to create a HQ image and retain high mpx density at the same time. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr

You can justify it all you like but I don't think anyone using their 1Ds for landscapes, architecture or aerials is going to replace their camera with the 1Dx. The 1Ds does a fine job now and all I want is more megapixels so when I make large prints, there is more detail not less. If it's not possible to make a 35mm sensor with more MP and maintain good quality, then that's that, and off to MF we go. But I'll wait to see what Sony and Nikon do before taking that leap.



Logged
We don't know what we don't know.

fotometria gr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • www.fotometria.gr
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #196 on: October 22, 2011, 03:41:08 pm »


A new word for you: Epistemology. Poor Aristotle doesn't stand a chance.
Very bright!!!  ;D Did you know HE created the word?  :-X Pathetic (another creation of his - in fact you don't speak Greek most of the time, you speak (poor) Aristotelian)! Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
Logged

fotometria gr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • www.fotometria.gr
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #197 on: October 22, 2011, 03:52:44 pm »

You can justify it all you like but I don't think anyone using their 1Ds for landscapes, architecture or aerials is going to replace their camera with the 1Dx. The 1Ds does a fine job now and all I want is more megapixels so when I make large prints, there is more detail not less. If it's not possible to make a 35mm sensor with more MP and maintain good quality, then that's that, and off to MF we go. But I'll wait to see what Sony and Nikon do before taking that leap.




If somebody will replace his camera is a different subject, perhaps (from interest point of view) he would be right not to, but what I was saying is that you may print in less megapixels and still have better quality and detail if you have a better camera. Otherwise, a good crop from a D700 would be worse than a cell phone, which of course it isn't. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 03:55:25 pm by fotometria gr »
Logged

jeffok

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
    • http://www.insightscapes.com
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #198 on: October 22, 2011, 06:28:50 pm »

You can justify it all you like but I don't think anyone using their 1Ds for landscapes, architecture or aerials is going to replace their camera with the 1Dx. The 1Ds does a fine job now and all I want is more megapixels so when I make large prints, there is more detail not less. If it's not possible to make a 35mm sensor with more MP and maintain good quality, then that's that, and off to MF we go. But I'll wait to see what Sony and Nikon do before taking that leap.

I'll be keeping my 1Ds3 thank you very much. The 1Dx does not provide a compelling value proposition over a 1Ds3, especially for those who already own a 1Ds3. It seems we have reached a plateau in terms of the resolution/IQ trade-off. My guess is that a 21 Mp 1Ds3 print of Grand Canyon shot at 200 ISO  on 17x22 paper is going to look every bit as good or better as a similar 1Dx file. I won't be shooting handheld shots in total darkness so the 1Dx has absolutely no use to me.
Logged

Josh-H

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2079
    • Wild Nature Photo Travel
Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #199 on: October 22, 2011, 06:51:00 pm »

Quote
My guess is that a 21 Mp 1Ds3 print of Grand Canyon shot at 200 ISO  on 17x22 paper is going to look every bit as good or better as a similar 1Dx file.

This is I believe the crux of the debate for current 1DSMK3 landscape shooters (myself included). For shooters like myself that are on a tripod 90% of the time, mirror lock up and cable release and pretty much locked at ISO100 there is little compelling reason on the surface of it to jump to the 1DX because of its lower (by a bit - technical term  ;D) mega pixels.

A 1DSMK3 file printed will I believe be virtually if not totally indistinguishable from a 1DX file - provided the ISO is low (probably sub 800); leaving little to no reason to jump to the 1DX. Remember that fascinating comparison Michael did with a Canon G10 (I think it was) vs. a Phase P65+ in print? Well.. virtually no one picked the difference in 13 x 19 prints and those that did, did so because they recognised the depth of field differences. Between a 1DSMK3 and 1DX we are talking a significantly smaller margin - no way will anyone pick it in print at low ISO.

That said.. the 1DX will blow the 1DSMK3 out of the water at high ISO and in the FPS department. If those are important to you then that is a compelling reason to jump to the new model. I suspect Sports shooters are over the moon with the 1DX, as will be photojournalists. Heck, even for wildlife this camera is going to be killer. Its just not a replacement for a 1DSMK3 shooter who is focused on contemplative landscape.

So.. what is the 1DSMK3 landscape shooter to do?

Option 1 - continue shooting the 1DSMK3 (it aint broke!)
Option 2 - Jump to MFDB (and drop some serious coin in the process)
Option 3 - Wait for a 1DX's' (or whatever Canon decide to call it - if it comes)

I'll take Option 1 thanks and see if Option 3 eventuates over the next 6-12 months. With the caveat, that as yet I have not seen any RAW files from the 1DX - until such time as I do I reserve all right to reconsider my options.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 06:53:33 pm by Josh-H »
Logged
Wild Nature Photo Travel
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 15   Go Up