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Author Topic: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability  (Read 94621 times)

Slater-K

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2011, 05:29:54 pm »

you would really shoot only portrait, if they ask you to?

No, of course not, but if 60 - 80% of the shots are portrait, then chances are that the best shot of the shoot will be portrait. All very good until they decide to go landscape. If the camera is higher res, then no problem. If it's the 1dx, then you're in the same amount of trouble you were in way back in 2007, when the 1DS III came out (the same year that the iPhone made it's debut - by comparison).
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2011, 06:05:09 pm »

Bernard, perhaps but I prefer the smaller body camera :)

Are you calling the 1DX small?

Cheers,
Bernard

craigwashburn

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2011, 06:05:31 pm »

Entry level medium format is now nearly at the same price as the 1Ds traditionally launched at... and you get a lens with the kit to boot.  

For the everyday commercial photographer that needs resolution, Canon's abandoning of that market suggests that medium format will soon return as the format of choice.  
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2011, 06:15:11 pm »

Looks like evolution rather than revolution, Canon trying to eke out a little more performance from the same tech path they've been following for the last decade or so.  They have probably run into some limits though, high frame rates with large pixel counts put huge processing demands on off-chip ADC's, which is inimical to high ISO performance.  Sony got around that with the parallel processing of the Exmor line, Nikon in the D3 by throwing more processors at it and having lower pixel count.  It will be interesting to see what, if any, advances they have made on taming pattern noise, which has not really improved (and in some cases like the 5D2 is worse) for several generations.

It's nice to see that they are finally getting color info into the 1 series AF.

Personally I would have been happier with a higher pixel count, matching the pixel size of the 1D4.  For wildlife photography, where one is often focal length limited, it's the pixel size rather than count that matters, and 18MP on FF is a big step back from 16MP on APS-H.  Basically, Canon is telling those people whose lens kit was predicated on APS-H that they have to buy new lenses to use the 1Dx in the same way they use the 1D4 and have the same subject resolution.  At that point, it becomes a serious question whether to keep with Canon.
I guess having three different size of sensors was one too many..., this is another wrong decision they had to deal with. However, the problem with the wideangles that they now overcome is in my view even more important than teles, at least with teles somebody can always get a TC and work around it (especially if ISO performance is much improved). Cropping won't be a problem either, not with 18mpx anyway, you can print up to 4x6 feet with it and cropping to 1/4th is 2x3, who needs more? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2011, 06:20:36 pm »

Are you calling the 1DX small?

Cheers,
Bernard

+++1. Its practically the same resolution for God's shake, not even 10% of a side of print for the same res, but who needs the same printing res if he can print better and larger with lower res? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2011, 06:26:15 pm »

Beyond mentioning that it is was extremely unusual, no. It was a surprise. My suspicion is that it was done to let big sports agencies and news organizations start making budgetary decisions for 2012 which of course is an Olympics year, and the Olympics aspect of the timing was discussed.  I'm not going to speculate further on their timing decision.

As far as I know, companies don't plan their budget based on supplier announcements. Or at least companies that have not gone bankrupt yet because of poor mgt. :)

My guess would be some internal fight between marketing pushing for an announcement closely timed to those of Nikon and engineering keeping claiming they needed more time to release a product without 1d3 AF like issues. :)

Canon selected a difficult path here. The camera will mostly feel like an evolution from the photographer's standpoint, yet their attempt to include many existing Nikon technologies (color AF,...) at once must represent a very significant technological challenge with many possibilities for issues and engineering delays.

Lack of mgt arbitration and you get the perfect paper launch with nearly 6 months between announcement and availability.

Cheers,
Bernard

jeremypayne

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2011, 06:27:42 pm »

... with 18mpx anyway, you can print up to 4x6 feet ... who needs more?

Maybe somebody who prints at higher than 72dpi?
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2011, 06:29:59 pm »

Entry level medium format is now nearly at the same price as the 1Ds traditionally launched at... and you get a lens with the kit to boot.  

For the everyday commercial photographer that needs resolution, Canon's abandoning of that market suggests that medium format will soon return as the format of choice.  
Can MF do high ISO or sports? Is it suitable for wildlife and long teles? Please.., the Eos can do studio and fashion ,not as good as MF, but it can! MF is for different aspects of photography like it has always been and DSLRs are good for the rest and will never do as well what MF does best. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2011, 06:39:52 pm »

Maybe somebody who prints at higher than 72dpi?
Who says that if you print a little higher than ANY DPI (say 77 than 72) with a worst camera will make a better print?  ;D Maybe an ignorant...?  ;) If it was so, Your cell phone would print better than a good crop from a D700 ....buddy! :-* Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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JonathanRimmel

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2011, 06:42:47 pm »

I am rather surprised with the specs of this camera. ( :o see that ISO!) Personally 18 Mp is fine for most of my photography. Sure my landscape work could use a few more however the IQ would have to be very good. Packing more Mp into the same area causes problems. Yes modern cameras deal with this quite well, but I am still a bit Leary of high megapixel DSLRs. I tend to do a lot of low light work, more out of necessity than personal choice. In such situations I am always looking for low noise. If I can expect a camera such as this to let me shoot at crazy high ISO's like 12,800 and get good quality, low noise images, I'm in.

For any work of mine requiring more resolution, medium format with more affordable cameras surfacing, is looking more and more attractive. I do hope Nikon will follow Canon's lead here. Although I personally am looking forward to a D400. Perhaps with some of the features included from their Nikon 1 line.

One last thought is, although I like Canon consolidating their line, perhaps it would be best to do it in their beginner DSLRs (you too Nikon) Do we need all of those? As this forum shows, some photographers would like the choice. Just like Nikon's D3x and D3s. Some may not need the high ISO, but want high res, so they go for the D3x, or the opposite may be true. Giving some options is good. Too many of course, not so much.
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ejmartin

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2011, 07:26:57 pm »

I guess having three different size of sensors was one too many..., this is another wrong decision they had to deal with. However, the problem with the wideangles that they now overcome is in my view even more important than teles, at least with teles somebody can always get a TC and work around it (especially if ISO performance is much improved). Cropping won't be a problem either, not with 18mpx anyway, you can print up to 4x6 feet with it and cropping to 1/4th is 2x3, who needs more? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr

I guess you don't do nature photography...
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emil

phila

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2011, 07:37:10 pm »

I think it is undeniable that the 5D eroded the market for the 1Ds and that with a 5D MkIII (presumably over 21MP & with improved video capabilities) and the 1DX Canon has at least 90% of their professional/advanced amateur target market covered.

Nothing in any of PR precludes a new, very high MP full frame "studio/landscape" design that is not a 1 series...

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2011, 07:41:11 pm »

For any work of mine requiring more resolution, medium format with more affordable cameras surfacing, is looking more and more attractive. I do hope Nikon will follow Canon's lead here.

Hum... How about deciding who is leading based on who will be the first to put cameras in the hands of working photographers? :-)

As far as MF becoming more affordable:
- is it still the case when you look at backs finally offering good usability?
- does that take into account the price of a full system?
- does that take into account the opportunity cost of all the images you will not be able to take because of various limitations (lens focal range, limited AF, concern with physical robusteness, slowness of operation,...)?

Cheers,
Bernard

ixania2

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2011, 07:41:46 pm »

You might not be the only person wondering about what will be announced there but in all likelihood any hardware announced there will not be centered around a higher resolution still photography camera.

maybe new small desktop printers in 12 different colors, earning canon some 26 trillion dollar?
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2011, 08:06:32 pm »

I guess you don't do nature photography...
I do all kinds of photography, some more some less but even with the ones I do less, I've done enough to know what I am talking about. If resolution is the only way around heavy cropping, then I would suggest to start by cropping the sensor (ie an APS-c camera), it will benefit reach and portability as well. I know many people that do nature with Nikon, nearly none of them uses a D3X for it, mostly their favorite is the D300S. What a Canon user did before the 1d4? Don't tell me that nature started with the D4. There is no way for a manufacturer to produce a camera that will satisfy all, but again there are not many customers for a camera that only do one thing with their camera and those that are doing only one thing, are an insignificant quantity when the manufacturer does his market research. Canon 1 series has many problems that has to deal with, competition from Nikon took a huge part of their sales to start with..., internal competition from the 5d2 took some more..., they can't survive the series with 2 models and 2 sensors running, they did the right thing to face the competition the best they could and wisely decided to lower costs by replacing 2 products with one, in this decision they gave priority to satisfy the larger part of their customers and after doing that they tried to do their best for the rest, the result is not a better camera for nature..., is a better camera that can also do nature the best it can. Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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indusphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2011, 08:54:20 pm »

I belong to the camp that is hugely dissatisfied with this successor to 1Ds line !

However thinking about this more and judging from the jubilation on other forums (In fact this is the only thread I have found so far where majority have voiced their dissatisfaction, possibly because the nature of Lula crowd), I think the writing was on the wall.

The biggest customers of Pro series cameras are not individual photographers, but news and sports organizations who buy these cameras in boatloads. What do they buy? Obviously they need speed and AF and also high ISO. So they go out and buy 1D series cameras. Who buys 1Ds series? Landscape and high-end commercial and fashion photographers. A sizable percentage of them just go to MF anyway. So the market is comparatively pretty small.

Now that we look back, I think this was the reason that Canon upgraded 5D Mark II to 1Ds sensor. Canon is a mass market company, not a specialty or niche provider. What they could not sell in 1Ds3, they sold in 5D.2 in boat loads. 1Ds probably was not making money for canon even before 5D was introduced, so there is no need to keep it alive.

It seems to me that they will come up with the next version of 5D with higher resolution in the price range where there is a mass market but that is only a guess. So I have to be contended with the 21MP that I have.

I would be happy to switch over to Nikon or Sony, only if their lens lineup was as logical as Canon's.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 08:57:38 pm by sunnycal »
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ejmartin

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2011, 10:08:04 pm »

If resolution is the only way around heavy cropping, then I would suggest to start by cropping the sensor (ie an APS-c camera), it will benefit reach and portability as well. I know many people that do nature with Nikon, nearly none of them uses a D3X for it, mostly their favorite is the D300S.

Would be OK if Canon offered the top end amenities (AF, frame rate, weather sealing, firmware sophistication, etc) in an APS-C body, as is the case with the D300(s); however, Canon has chosen to differentiate the 1 Series by only offering these things there and not in an APS-C body (or the 5D series).   So not a solution (for me).
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JohnKoerner

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2011, 10:31:03 pm »

Would be OK if Canon offered the top end amenities (AF, frame rate, weather sealing, firmware sophistication, etc) in an APS-C body, as is the case with the D300(s); however, Canon has chosen to differentiate the 1 Series by only offering these things there and not in an APS-C body (or the 5D series).   So not a solution (for me).


Canon does all of this in the 7D ... which is actually a step ahead of the Nikon D300s in just about every category and function except maybe total # of AF points ...

Jack


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JohnKoerner

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2011, 10:48:56 pm »

I belong to the camp that is hugely dissatisfied with this successor to 1Ds line !
However thinking about this more and judging from the jubilation on other forums (In fact this is the only thread I have found so far where majority have voiced their dissatisfaction, possibly because the nature of Lula crowd), I think the writing was on the wall.
The biggest customers of Pro series cameras are not individual photographers, but news and sports organizations who buy these cameras in boatloads. What do they buy? Obviously they need speed and AF and also high ISO. So they go out and buy 1D series cameras. Who buys 1Ds series? Landscape and high-end commercial and fashion photographers. A sizable percentage of them just go to MF anyway. So the market is comparatively pretty small.
Now that we look back, I think this was the reason that Canon upgraded 5D Mark II to 1Ds sensor. Canon is a mass market company, not a specialty or niche provider. What they could not sell in 1Ds3, they sold in 5D.2 in boat loads. 1Ds probably was not making money for canon even before 5D was introduced, so there is no need to keep it alive.
It seems to me that they will come up with the next version of 5D with higher resolution in the price range where there is a mass market but that is only a guess. So I have to be contended with the 21MP that I have.
I would be happy to switch over to Nikon or Sony, only if their lens lineup was as logical as Canon's.

That sums it up right there. This camera is quite clearly an action camera, not a static "fine art" camera.

If massive mpx is what a person wants, to maximize large, static "fine art" or billboard shots, they should go medium format. This simple truth is most professionals aren't trying to create "fine art" with their cameras. Hell, even most nature photographers don't have any real need to blow-up their photos to massive proportions, and surely most news/sports photographers don't either.

So what is Canon supposed to do? Create a specialized super-high mpx camera to satisfy a very small "fine art" sector (but who basically can't afford medium format) ... or should Canon build an overall workhorse of a camera that will satisfy far more professionals overall?

The simple truth is an all-new 18mpx, rapid-fire, low-light-capable camera, with leading-edge AF and excellent rugged durability ... all supported by the best overall lens lineup of anyone ...is simply going to sell more cameras to more total professionals (not necessarily "specialty" professionals) than would any other option.

I think they did the right thing, really.

Jack


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« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 10:52:55 pm by John Koerner »
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wolfnowl

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2011, 01:32:35 am »

Personally I think they should call it the 1DX3, just to confuse people even more as to whether it's really a Canon or a Nikon camera. Who comes up with these names?

Mike.
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