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Author Topic: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability  (Read 94649 times)

NigelC

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2011, 03:12:04 pm »


It's interesting now to see how Canon's product strategy further unfolds. If we take them at their word then (for now) the 1D line will not exceed 18MP. Clearly it wouldn't be rocket science to put a 30-40ish MP sensor into essentially the same camera, but differentiated by lower frame/read out rates, at a similiar price level. But maybe Canon are thinking that the people who want or need much more than 18MP don't need a speed gun, can't justify the cost of MFD, and would be satisfied with a 5D level camera specced like the rumored D800. What I find intriguing is the idea that the 1.3X crop may not be dead. I think Canon are at a bit of a disadvantage with their 1.6X crop compared to Nikon, Pentax, Sony and others using 1.5X. While I can't see them moving away from 1.6X for the XXXD and XXD lines, for cost reasons, 1.3X would be a good way to differentiate the next 7D iteration from its rivals like D300S and A77 etc. Given the price point they are able to deliver a FF sensor at in the 5D2, surely they could do a 1.3X "1D lite" at about the same price level as the 7D now. They could use an updated version of the 1D4 1.3X 16MP sensor for a significant gain in image quality and lower noise. The other reason I think they might do this is that Canon seem to have been quiet on the EF-S lens front recently.
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Steve Weldon

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2011, 03:19:15 pm »

Am I the only one wondering if Canon's Nov 3rd "The Story Begins" announcement will be about a new higher resolution solution? 

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Slater-K

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2011, 03:20:22 pm »

Any pro knows that most of our work does not require more than 18MP

So very strange - i've been a professional for over 16 years, and i would say the opposite!

My guess would be that most professionals have 1 or two "35mm" bodies. I would say that most photographers take nearly all of the jobs that are offered to them. And, very importantly, i would say that most of their clients do not fully realise what they're after until they get the images in front of their noses. For example, sometimes they ask you to shoot portrait, and then after the shoot it turns out that they'll use the image landscape. Sure, if everything goes to plan (composition, brief, exposure, layout not changing etc etc) then your 18 mpx will be fine ... but as professionals we're paid to solve people's problems, and often those problems come after the shoot. (Many times when shooting with my 1ds III, i've wished for bigger files, so as i can give a client a "post shoot" alternative.)

If i'm right about most photographers clients / needs, then this camera is not the one that they should save for, and have in their bag. And, if Canon do as they say, it will sadly be the only "professional' grade Canon camera.

Personally, i don't want something similar to the 5d. It's not rugged enough, the AF is not good enough (when my mortgage is at stake) - in short it is not "professional' enough.

According to Canon, Moore's Law is dead ... but i bet Nikon don't think that.

I moved over from Nikon to Canon because i wanted a replacement to the d1x ... it would be ironic if i went back to canon because of the 1dx.
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ixania2

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2011, 03:28:33 pm »

While I can't see them moving away from 1.6X for the XXXD and XXD lines, for cost reasons, 

never. there are ef-s lenses!
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ixania2

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2011, 03:32:06 pm »

For example, sometimes they ask you to shoot portrait, and then after the shoot it turns out that they'll use the image landscape. Sure, if everything goes to plan (composition, brief, exposure, layout not changing etc etc) then your 18 mpx will be fine ... but as professionals we're paid to solve people's problems, and often those problems come after the shoot. (Many times when shooting with my 1ds III, i've wished for bigger files, so as i can give a client a "post shoot" alternative.)


you would really shoot only portrait, if they ask you to?
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dreed

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2011, 03:33:57 pm »

The rumours market for Canon is very interesting at the 1D/5D level...

There is talk of the 1Ds replacement being something completely different...

There's talk of the 5D becoming two different cameras, one with more video than the other (and I suspect that one will have more MP than the other)

But it is clear that Canon have finally delivered on the 1Ds/1D merger.

I'm willing to bet that they've done their homework on market share and what those who buy 1D/1Ds cameras want. Maybe the sales of the 1Ds dropped to such a low level when the 5DII came out that it became clear that there were very few that were buying the 1Ds for what it represented.
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jonathanlung

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2011, 03:40:21 pm »

Not that this matters in terms of actual use, but I'm curious about the following statement on DPreview (w.r.t. new DIGIC processors)
Quote
Another benefit of more processing power, combined with an improved sensor is an expansion of ISO range, says Westfall [...]

I'm assuming this means the processors are responsible for better high ISO performance in raw mode. How does more processing power improve ISO range? From my limited knowledge, I thought ISO noise was reduced by slower readouts from sensors; faster processors shouldn't help with that (unless it's from reading channels in parallel more slowly). I can see how faster processors can reduce noise in a JPEG via better NR algorithms, but this statement beats me.
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Chris_Brown

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2011, 03:53:24 pm »

Quote
Multiple Exposures shooting
The EOS-1D X offers a number of multiple exposure options for creative photography, in-camera. It can take from two to nine exposures to create one multiple exposure image, with four distinct settings for exposure control: Additive (where, like with a traditional film-based multiple exposures) the total exposure amount adds up as the exposures are taken (thereby requiring manual exposure compensation for each frame); Average, where the exposure is controlled automatically; (Comparitive) Bright, a setting suited for uniformly dark scenes with distinct bright subjects; and (Comparitive) Dark, which is suitable for eliminating bright sections or reflections. Images can be checked on the LCD during shooting. An existing image can be chosen for the first exposure and the EOS-1D X offers a number of other settings for highly controlled multiple exposure photography of the highest caliber.

In-camera HDR photography?

Every feature about the camera sounds great. I only wish it had 22mp because that gives me a 2-page spread without interpolation.
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paul_jones

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2011, 03:58:52 pm »

So very strange - i've been a professional for over 16 years, and i would say the opposite!

My guess would be that most professionals have 1 or two "35mm" bodies. I would say that most photographers take nearly all of the jobs that are offered to them. And, very importantly, i would say that most of their clients do not fully realise what they're after until they get the images in front of their noses. For example, sometimes they ask you to shoot portrait, and then after the shoot it turns out that they'll use the image landscape. Sure, if everything goes to plan (composition, brief, exposure, layout not changing etc etc) then your 18 mpx will be fine ... but as professionals we're paid to solve people's problems, and often those problems come after the shoot. (Many times when shooting with my 1ds III, i've wished for bigger files, so as i can give a client a "post shoot" alternative.)

If i'm right about most photographers clients / needs, then this camera is not the one that they should save for, and have in their bag. And, if Canon do as they say, it will sadly be the only "professional' grade Canon camera.

Personally, i don't want something similar to the 5d. It's not rugged enough, the AF is not good enough (when my mortgage is at stake) - in short it is not "professional' enough.

According to Canon, Moore's Law is dead ... but i bet Nikon don't think that.

I moved over from Nikon to Canon because i wanted a replacement to the d1x ... it would be ironic if i went back to canon because of the 1dx.


i agree, professional photographers need a lot more resolution (for what i do at least).
advertising photography that requires any kind of compositing (which is almost all the shooting i come across now days) requires larger files. sure the 1dsmk3 was sweet when you used the shots as cropped, but i often have to shoot one shot that will be used for billboard, DPS and vertical page. try shooing a lifestyle shoot and get multiple shots to do this- you always get one shot out of thousands that stands well above the rest- the chances of getting that shot out of shoot portrait and landscape is nill. this is why i bought my contax/p65 combo- i could shoot with the resolution that was high enough for a portrait out of a landscape, big enough for cropping in heavily ( sometimes the client asks for a full length shot, but after the shoot decides to crop into the face!). and remember that the canon frame is so long, that cropping a vertical is like using only a 1/3 of the file.
have you noticed the large wall displays while walking through airports lately- the canon res shots look soft and often over "upressed" , and the obvious medium format displays look crisp and beautiful, almost real. the difference at that size is like night and day.

but here is the dilemma i face. shooting with a contax is stepping back into the dark ages- the files are absolutely amazing, more than big enough for all the work i do. but i need heaps of light, i have to focus by eye (but i do with canon as well as their focus point off the center one are soo hit and miss!) and i only shoot a frame a second- so i miss many shots when you get those short bursts of expressions.
So a 30mp+ canon would be a far better outcome for me. 5-6fps and less iso is fine- i just need a larger file out of a faster camera.

but ill still buy one of these 1dx cameras though.

paul
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Lonnie Utah

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2011, 04:26:33 pm »

but here is the dilemma i face. shooting with a contax is stepping back into the dark ages- the files are absolutely amazing, more than big enough for all the work i do. but i need heaps of light, i have to focus by eye (but i do with canon as well as their focus point off the center one are soo hit and miss!) and i only shoot a frame a second- so i miss many shots when you get those short bursts of expressions.
So a 30mp+ canon would be a far better outcome for me. 5-6fps and less iso is fine- i just need a larger file out of a faster camera.

Sound like a 36 mp Sony with focus peaking at 1/2 the cost.... ;)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 04:29:07 pm by Lonnie Utah »
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ihv

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2011, 04:30:55 pm »

By all means this new 1Dx is the successor to the 1D Mk4 - all the additions are here to serve sports shooters. The 1Ds MK4 was just discontinued, let's be honest.

I'd have believed Canon when they wouldn't have pushed the sports side only. What about satisfactory 10fps, yet something around ~27 megapixels (Sony does 24MP@12fps)?

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Ellis Vener

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2011, 04:33:45 pm »

Am I the only one wondering if Canon's Nov 3rd "The Story Begins" announcement will be about a new higher resolution solution? 



You might not be the only person wondering about what will be announced there but in all likelihood any hardware announced there will not be centered around a higher resolution still photography camera.
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Ben Rubinstein

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2011, 04:49:28 pm »

Ellis, did they mention anything about the 5 month waiting period? It's very uncanon.

nemophoto

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2011, 04:50:20 pm »

Yes, and of course I JUST bought a 1D Mark IV a couple of days ago, having searched hard for one. Figures..... That said, the 1Dx almost seems more marketed toward cinematography in overall capabilities. Does this mean the 1Ds convept is dead?? or does it just kill off the 1D series...
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Ellis Vener

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2011, 04:50:48 pm »

In-camera HDR photography?

This was not discussed in the NDA briefing I was part of and it surely would have been mentioned if it were.

Quote
Every feature about the camera sounds great. I only wish it had 22mp because that gives me a 2-page spread without interpolation.

What size page? if you mean a 'double truck of two standard 8.5 x 11 inch pages @ 300dpi (i.e. 17" x 11" at 300 dpi)  that requires only 5100 x 3300 pixels  which equals 16.83mp and either way you'll have to crop a little off of the sides or a little off of the top to fit the 1:1.50 camera frame aspect ratio to the 1:1.55 aspect ratio of an 11 x 17 inch spread. doign this math tells me that Canon knew exactly withthe mp resolution.  I suspect cinema aspect ratios also played into this sensor density decision.
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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2011, 04:53:38 pm »

Frankly Canon has done what I wish Nikon would have done. If the new D800 really is 36mp I have no use for it - the large files it will generate would mean buying a new computer for me as I have maxed out my current setup. I was looking for the D700 replacement to have exactly what Canon has announced - 18mp. A modest boost in mp for cropping purposes is all I need.
In my view Canon has done what was forced by Nikon to do and this is a great victory for Nikon. It was Canon that leaded the "mpx war" till now and fead so many consumer minds with it, but it was them that lost most of the "knowledgeable" pro market share to Nikon (and all those expensive and profitable lenses with it) and their lower resolution cameras, ...that did everything better! In my view if they would continue this, they would soon loose the demanding photographer's market completely. It may also prove that they where too late in doing this confession, I mean its not easy for your customers to forgive you for keeping them in confusion all this time and then end up producing a much better camera by following an opposite direction path... is it? They could have followed that path years ago... couldn't they? I thing that the new camera will prove to be a MUCH better camera than anything they ever did, the 1DS3 included, in all aspects of photography (DR, noise, color, etc), but I also think that when Nikon's interchangeable sensor D3 replacement will appear will find them with their pants down once more. I also think that the new 5D will use a same resolution (or even the same) sensor, I also think that all those 36mpx rumors for the D700 replacement is total crap (you can't believe the crap we read on web), do they really expect Nikon to change a winning policy? They won't for sure! I am sure they will stay behind Canon in resolution in all their competitive products, but one high res interchangeable sensor for the D3 successor and I also expect Nikon to replace the D300 with a low res FF camera. I am also sure I will proove to be right on all the above! Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 07:24:27 pm by fotometria gr »
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Ellis Vener

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2011, 04:56:15 pm »

Ellis, did they mention anything about the 5 month waiting period? It's very uncanon.

Beyond mentioning that it is was extremely unusual, no. It was a surprise. My suspicion is that it was done to let big sports agencies and news organizations start making budgetary decisions for 2012 which of course is an Olympics year, and the Olympics aspect of the timing was discussed.  I'm not going to speculate further on their timing decision.
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Ellis Vener

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2011, 05:02:34 pm »

"I also think that when Nikon's interchangeable sensor D3 replacement will appear will find them with their pants down once more."

uhhhh...


"...you can't believe the crap we read on web"

Outside of the noxious gas  that politicians emit  that is the best job of contradicting oneself in two consecutive sentences I've ever seen! Full marks for that!

 

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fotometria gr

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2011, 05:15:00 pm »

"I also think that when Nikon's interchangeable sensor D3 replacement will appear will find them with their pants down once more."

uhhhh...


"...you can't believe the crap we read on web"

Outside of the noxious gas  that politicians emit  that is the best job of contradicting oneself in two consecutive sentences I've ever seen! Full marks for that!

 


Remember that dear Ellis.. remember that... it will come back to you soon... ;) Let me just tell you that the sensor will be in a small box like a very small cell phone that will be slotted from the left side of the camera (opposite side than CF cards) as you look through the viewfinder and it will "click" in position.  8) Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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ejmartin

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Re: Canon EOS 1DX announced - March 2012 availability
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2011, 05:27:10 pm »

Looks like evolution rather than revolution, Canon trying to eke out a little more performance from the same tech path they've been following for the last decade or so.  They have probably run into some limits though, high frame rates with large pixel counts put huge processing demands on off-chip ADC's, which is inimical to high ISO performance.  Sony got around that with the parallel processing of the Exmor line, Nikon in the D3 by throwing more processors at it and having lower pixel count.  It will be interesting to see what, if any, advances they have made on taming pattern noise, which has not really improved (and in some cases like the 5D2 is worse) for several generations.

It's nice to see that they are finally getting color info into the 1 series AF.

Personally I would have been happier with a higher pixel count, matching the pixel size of the 1D4.  For wildlife photography, where one is often focal length limited, it's the pixel size rather than count that matters, and 18MP on FF is a big step back from 16MP on APS-H.  Basically, Canon is telling those people whose lens kit was predicated on APS-H that they have to buy new lenses to use the 1Dx in the same way they use the 1D4 and have the same subject resolution.  At that point, it becomes a serious question whether to keep with Canon.
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