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Author Topic: Alain Briot's Brief Essays  (Read 14403 times)

bobtowery

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Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« on: November 10, 2010, 10:40:04 am »

Thumbs up to this style. A great image, and the story behind the image that one can digest in one or two minutes.  Better than no information, and better than a full fledged essay. Merci Alain!
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fredjeang

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 11:10:42 am »

I have a question for Alain, if he watch this thread, as I know he has been student in the Paris fine arts just before me (well, a lot before me) and therefore knows very well the european art scene.

I'm very surprised that landscape photography, that you call "art photography" in the us, is completly absent from the europeans galleries. There is no market here for landscapes.
Is that has something to do with culture according to you?

It seems that being a "landscaper" the only destination is the US. Am I right?
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 11:47:01 am »

I have a question for Alain, if he watch this thread, as I know he has been student in the Paris fine arts just before me (well, a lot before me) and therefore knows very well the european art scene.

I'm very surprised that landscape photography, that you call "art photography" in the us, is completly absent from the europeans galleries. There is no market here for landscapes.
Is that has something to do with culture according to you?

It seems that being a "landscaper" the only destination is the US. Am I right?



Fred, again, we seem to be communicating as if by telepathy: I asked Alain more or less the same question some years ago, suggesting that with so much in his home country (he did some lovely stuff of Paris which, if memory serves, he had used to illustrate a new Epson non-pigment printer...) it seemed odd to have to go to the States. But hell, selling photography as art (in the sense of non-commissioned or stock) in Europe is no easy matter, whoever you are. On the other hand, I ended up in Spain because of locations too...

I guess it all comes down to a sustainable business model. If you find one, tell me about it!

Hoodoo: I'd never heard the term before; this one reminds me of the Sphinx with its tail up. But rather nice shot, Egypt notwithstanding.

Rob C
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 11:53:12 am by Rob C »
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wolfnowl

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 12:38:26 pm »

I also appreciate the quick descriptions of the images.  Adds context to the visual.

And Rob, a 'hoodoo' is created by a 'capstone' of harder rock (usually volcanic) overlaying something softer, like sandstone.  The capstone acts as an 'umbrella' of sorts, protecting the stone underneath and over millenia the surrounding stone is worn away by rain, wind, etc.

Mike.
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Rajan Parrikar

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 01:01:56 pm »

Concise, snack-size essays served with a beautiful image, and a reminder that it is all about the light.  Thank you, Alain.

Patricia Sheley

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 04:20:51 pm »

The Canyon de Chelly essay is a beautiful essai of self discovery via light, very much appreciate Alain's sharing his self revelations...as much as I hate computers, how else would I have had the fortune to "overhear" this conversation... Thank you Alain...
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PierreVandevenne

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 08:09:35 pm »

Fredjeand, I hope you don't mind if I hijack your post ;-0

Interesting question. I am a European buyer, not an artist.  And I confess, somewhat sheepishly here, that I probably wouldn't buy landscape photography. I have actually bought a few prints, but that was mostly to show support rather than by real interest. Why is that so? There's probably a deep cultural current under this. Assume a potential buyer with a decent interest but not a passion for art photography. In the US, that buyer will know Ansel Adams. In continental Europe, he'll know Cartier Bresson. In my case, I could immediately identify most significant Cartier Bresson images before I even heard the Ansel Adams name and I heard of him because of its zone system, not because of his works. Then, there is the issue of individual snobishness: for some reason, I'd go as far as saying that landscape photography carries some sort of stigma around here. If I had a large wonderful Grand Canyon picture in the entrance of my house, visitors would think "oh, he is the kind of guy that puts landscape pictures on his walls" and I'd think the same in the opposite situation, with some kind of fuzzy negative feeling. Now replace the Grand Canyon image by a B&W portraits, abstract stuff or even some controversial Larry Clark or Mapplethorpe style stuff and suddenly "the kind of guy" takes a positive connotation: the owner is "obviously" an educated interesting and sophisticated person...

That's all bull... of course, but that is the feeling.

We've hosted several arts exhibitions/sales at the office (I was loaning the rooms to a retired friend who had been running galleries her whole life): painting and sculptures did very, very well, nothing ground breaking but in the 2000 EUR to 10000 EUR range per piece. A photographer was piggybacking on the exhibit with 30 to 100 EUR prints, landscape style. He sold nothing. People would stop, look, say "wonderful pictures", but they never bought. Towards the end of the exhibition, we even wanted to give prints as a gift to buyers of large pieces - guess what, they were declined!

Very very tough market for art photographers here if they aren't the kind of "very fine" art photographers sold at Sothebys or Christies...
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2010, 06:30:37 am »

Now replace the Grand Canyon image by a B&W portraits, abstract stuff or even some controversial Larry Clark or Mapplethorpe style stuff and suddenly "the kind of guy" takes a positive connotation: the owner is "obviously" an educated interesting and sophisticated person...

That's all bull... of course, but that is the feeling.

We've hosted several arts exhibitions/sales at the office (I was loaning the rooms to a retired friend who had been running galleries her whole life): painting and sculptures did very, very well, nothing ground breaking but in the 2000 EUR to 10000 EUR range per piece. A photographer was piggybacking on the exhibit with 30 to 100 EUR prints, landscape style. He sold nothing. People would stop, look, say "wonderful pictures", but they never bought. Towards the end of the exhibition, we even wanted to give prints as a gift to buyers of large pieces - guess what, they were declined!

Very very tough market for art photographers here if they aren't the kind of "very fine" art photographers sold at Sothebys or Christies...


Pierre, you have identified the problem.

Those prices make any photography look cheap and relatively worthless; who wants stuff you can't give away?
It's a measure of the lack of confidence most photographers selling stuff as art face: low self-belief, which is a killer in any profession. I believe that buyers are of two main types: those who genuinely like photograhy; those who buy whatever they think is fashionable, regardless of anything else. There may be a third type, the investor, but I doubt most mortals deal with him as clients, though I suppose the bigger galleries must.

I don't put any prices on my website; if anyone is interested enough to want to buy, the route is there and it prepares the buyer for reality, which doesn't come cheaply. The beauty of my position is this: whilst I like the idea of my work on people's walls, it doesn't change my life if they don't buy. I spend a lot of time preparing something to the stage where I'm proud of it, why charge less than a plumber or an electrician for those hours?

Rob C

Patricia Sheley

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2010, 12:12:59 pm »

« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 10:10:42 AM » Reply 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"
I have a question for Alain, if he watch this thread, as I know he has been student in the Paris fine arts just before me (well, a lot before me) and therefore knows very well the european art scene.

I'm very surprised that landscape photography, that you call "art photography" in the us, is completly absent from the europeans galleries. There is no market here for landscapes.
Is that has something to do with culture according to you?

It seems that being a "landscaper" the only destination is the US. Am I right? "

Fred ...When I read your question it got me wondering and hoped for a reply...the open and honest reply from the buyer perspective really sheds a light on the matter that never crossed my radar before...Your question and the reply from Pierre gives a lot to think about ie works and imaginings of freely creatives...Thanks for opeening this door for a peek inside...P.
 
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Kirk Gittings

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2010, 03:06:29 pm »

Quote
why charge less than a plumber or an electrician for those hours?

Indeed!
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Kirk Gittings

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2010, 03:28:44 pm »

… why charge less than a plumber or an electrician for those hours?

You can choose to charge as a lawyer just as well… the result will be the same: people go to those professions when they really (and often badly) need them. People hardly need a blown-up postcard on their wall (in reference to the stigma landscape photography has, as per Pierre's posting).

fredjeang

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2010, 03:56:32 pm »

Fredjeand, I hope you don't mind if I hijack your post ;-0

Interesting question. I am a European buyer, not an artist.  And I confess, somewhat sheepishly here, that I probably wouldn't buy landscape photography. I have actually bought a few prints, but that was mostly to show support rather than by real interest. Why is that so? There's probably a deep cultural current under this. Assume a potential buyer with a decent interest but not a passion for art photography. In the US, that buyer will know Ansel Adams. In continental Europe, he'll know Cartier Bresson. In my case, I could immediately identify most significant Cartier Bresson images before I even heard the Ansel Adams name and I heard of him because of its zone system, not because of his works. Then, there is the issue of individual snobishness: for some reason, I'd go as far as saying that landscape photography carries some sort of stigma around here. If I had a large wonderful Grand Canyon picture in the entrance of my house, visitors would think "oh, he is the kind of guy that puts landscape pictures on his walls" and I'd think the same in the opposite situation, with some kind of fuzzy negative feeling. Now replace the Grand Canyon image by a B&W portraits, abstract stuff or even some controversial Larry Clark or Mapplethorpe style stuff and suddenly "the kind of guy" takes a positive connotation: the owner is "obviously" an educated interesting and sophisticated person...

That's all bull... of course, but that is the feeling.

We've hosted several arts exhibitions/sales at the office (I was loaning the rooms to a retired friend who had been running galleries her whole life): painting and sculptures did very, very well, nothing ground breaking but in the 2000 EUR to 10000 EUR range per piece. A photographer was piggybacking on the exhibit with 30 to 100 EUR prints, landscape style. He sold nothing. People would stop, look, say "wonderful pictures", but they never bought. Towards the end of the exhibition, we even wanted to give prints as a gift to buyers of large pieces - guess what, they were declined!

Very very tough market for art photographers here if they aren't the kind of "very fine" art photographers sold at Sothebys or Christies...
Pierre, I completly agree with all your lines. Great observations.
From France, I didn't know who Ansel Adams was (in fact I did but it was kind of a remote idea that had to be ignored, specially in Fine arts) until the zone system crossed my radar as Patricia would say (like this expression), and landscapes where considered almost like wedding photography, something kind of red-neck while the culture of snaps was indeed to the glory.
This is cultural and has not changed that much so far.

 
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 04:17:41 pm »

There's another perspective, too, that the Transatlantic photographers - and their buyers, for that matter - won't like to know. It's my view that in Europe, at least, there is a long-held impression that the New World is woefully lacking in cultural values. I add that this is my observation and not my personal opinion.

As a direct extension of that, not least because of a sense of envy (of pretty well everything, in fact, hence the Schadenfreude about Wall Street) that pervades much of European thought, America and its art, in which landscape photography is a big player, is never fully given its deserved place in the scheme of things. There is a sense of suspicion about much of it, from paint to photography and cinema, the latter being particularly suspect because of its overwhelming power in the world marketplace. You could say that the midgets are revolting...

But, from a personal perspective, which is something else again, I share part of the thing about landscape photography, but for different reasons. I learned long ago never willingly to hang photographs alongside paintings. Mediocre paintings will win any battles of comparison. Where paint offers, at the least, some show of artistic prowess, landscape photography seldom does, particularly in colour. It simply doesn't smell the smell; it's forever just a magazine page, a travel document torn from a brochure or a travel agent's wall.

But, if you venture into black and white, display a human figure doing something, or just existing in its own space of white, you have already taken a step out of reality and towards, if not exactly into, art. The finest colour print fails to do that: it’s forever just a photomechanical reproduction of what’s imagined to have been there all the time. You can play with it, twist it about in PS but even if you do it to retain or, rather, create a newer improved (in your view) version of the reality that you began with, it’s still seen to be what it is: just a photograph.

Maybe that’s why some of the American landscape shooters of the past also sell in Europe: they used b/w and are safely dead.

Colour photographs of people. I don’t think that they are ever art. They certainly are commercial in the sense that they sell actors and models and almost everything you can think about, but I wouldn’t hang one anymore either. At home, I have several paintings that I inherited and also two of my own colour landscape snaps in contradiction of what I wrote earlier. They still hang because my late wife liked them. I have some of my own b/w women and that’s it. Starting with an emotionally clean slate, I would dump them all and use my old fashion shots, but I don’t even have a damn negative left! I can’t win that one.

Perhaps it’s simply that b/w is seen to be artistic whereas colour is thought to be the province of commerce. I certainly think like that now – most stock agencies peddle colour for a reason.

Rob C



« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 05:27:11 pm by Rob C »
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fredjeang

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 04:43:45 pm »

This is a great post Rob.
Very interesting statements.
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siba

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2010, 06:48:58 am »

Hi Rob. Some nice thoughts there.

Just curious, which midgets are revolting?
Just so that I know to stay clear of them.

Regards
Stefan
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 08:32:06 am »


As a direct extension of that, not least because of a sense of envy (of pretty well everything, in fact, hence the Schadenfreude about Wall Street) that pervades much of European thought, America and its art, in which landscape photography is a big player, is never fully given its deserved place in the scheme of things. There is a sense of suspicion about much of it, from paint to photography and cinema, the latter being particularly suspect because of its overwhelming power in the world marketplace. You could say that the midgets are revolting...

But, from a personal perspective, which is something else again, I share part of the thing about landscape photography, but for different reasons. I learned long ago never willingly to hang photographs alongside paintings. Mediocre paintings will win any battles of comparison. Where paint offers, at the least, some show of artistic prowess, landscape photography seldom does, particularly in colour. It simply doesn't smell the smell; it's forever just a magazine page, a travel document torn from a brochure or a travel agent's wall.
There may be another explanation rooted in the art history approach (with the caveat that I am by no means an art historian, so the following view can be quickly discarded if you want).  American painting has long been realism based and if you look at the great landscape schools of the 1800s there was never an attempt to break away as was seen in Europe, particularly France.  It certainly does not surprise me about the what sells in French galleries.  If you look at where the French impressionists took painting regarding nature and landscapes, it strongly argues against a naturalistic approach by photographers.  Ansel Adams sells because it is Ansel Adams (iconographic images).  Is there much of a market for his work in Europe (I don't know the answer to this). 

It may also be that photography is not regarded as art since the presumption might be that anyone can get lucky taking a picture, or that the main use should be restricted to documentary (pace Cartier-Bresson).

Alan
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Patricia Sheley

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 08:59:48 am »

Rob,  Your thought rich, considered, articulate and quietly expansive contribution to this conversation is enriching beyond the thoughts expressed...in an almost subconscious flow...this is the very kind of back and forth, late night, maybe over a few cognacs I miss about my rather solitary life... you are a pure treasure in my eyes...Lula is my drug of choice dispossessed at end of day's demands for just such portals as these.  P.
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2010, 02:44:56 pm »

Hi Rob. Some nice thoughts there.

Just curious, which midgets are revolting?
Just so that I know to stay clear of them.

Regards
Stefan



Stefan, you and Slobodan (in another thread but on the same thing) are taking me for a ride!

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 03:23:30 pm »

Rob,  Your thought rich, considered, articulate and quietly expansive contribution to this conversation is enriching beyond the thoughts expressed...in an almost subconscious flow...this is the very kind of back and forth, late night, maybe over a few cognacs I miss about my rather solitary life... you are a pure treasure in my eyes...Lula is my drug of choice dispossessed at end of day's demands for just such portals as these.  P.


Patricia, what are you trying to do to my cool? I sit here at this computer of an evening listening to klrzfm.com, tears in my heart if not down my cheeks, the blues my constant bedfellows, and photography that false little voice in the background telling me sweet little lies of a better tomorrow that might match the highlights of a lost yesterday. People here like landscape: landscape means weeping willows by the river; Cognac, pour moi, means death and rivers the Styx. I loved cognac on the rocks, as I also liked Jim Beam on the same and, at the risk of sounding pretentious I thought a Ricard very much the thing before lunch whereas my better half was more inclined to risk a Campari soda.

My various cardiologists tell me that a single glass of red wine per day, preferably Cabernet Sauvignon, is my permitted way to go, but I always liked well-chilled white so much more. (I said cardiologists, but I didn't mean I surround myself with a team, they just seem to replace one another over the years, but only one is there at a time, which is probably quite enough save for emergencies when I'd rather an entire hospital surround me.) I once asked a doctor in Scotland why CabSauv and he thought that it was probably because they have a more highly skilled team of PR people working for them than do the others grapes...

Kidding (possibly) aside, thanks for the vote of confidence!

;-)

Rob C

alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 08:13:49 pm »

I have a question for Alain, if he watch this thread, as I know he has been student in the Paris fine arts just before me (well, a lot before me) and therefore knows very well the european art scene.

I'm very surprised that landscape photography, that you call "art photography" in the us, is completly absent from the europeans galleries. There is no market here for landscapes.
Is that has something to do with culture according to you?

It seems that being a "landscaper" the only destination is the US. Am I right?

Yes, the landscape photography genre is much more alive in the US.  It started here essentially for one thing (Adams, Weston, Porter, etc.).  In Europe photography has been focused primarily on people and places.
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