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Author Topic: Alain Briot's Brief Essays  (Read 14404 times)

alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2010, 08:17:03 pm »

The Canyon de Chelly essay is a beautiful essai of self discovery via light, very much appreciate Alain's sharing his self revelations...as much as I hate computers, how else would I have had the fortune to "overhear" this conversation... Thank you Alain...

Patricia,

You are welcome.
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Alain Briot
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Ray

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 09:22:56 pm »

Rob,  Your thought rich, considered, articulate and quietly expansive contribution to this conversation is enriching beyond the thoughts expressed...in an almost subconscious flow...this is the very kind of back and forth, late night, maybe over a few cognacs I miss about my rather solitary life... you are a pure treasure in my eyes...Lula is my drug of choice dispossessed at end of day's demands for just such portals as these.  P.

Wow! What a wonderful post, Patricia.This is an interesting plot for a Lula romance. Patricia enjoys a few cognacs, but more than one small glass of red wine is anathema to Rob's health. A marriage with problems from the start? Will Patricia be able to sacrifice her penchant for a few glasses of cognac in order to achieve harmonious union with Rob? We're holding our breath for the next episode.  ;D

But let's not digress. The subject of 'which print to hang on one's wall' is interesting. Why are American landscapes not so widely appreciated in Europe? Why do people hang any prints or paintings on their walls, and what determines their choice?

I can think of two extremes, allowing for all degrees of permuatations betweeen those two extremes.

First, the obvious and most prevalent reason to hang any picture on a wall is because it has emotional relevance. It resonates with some past experience. It may be a picture of a dog, one's marriage, one's kids, one's wife, one's graduation ceremony, the Bratislava cup for Ice Hockey, one's father, one's great grandfather, the scene down the road, or even an Ansel Adam's photo of Yosemite because one visited the place and was mightily impressed by the beauty of the scenery, etc etc.

At the other extreme, one may have the need to create a persona that attempts to describe a fictional representation of who you would really like to be.

You may then choose paintings or photos to hang on your wall that correspond with that artificial persona. Paintings or photos that indicate to others that you are a person of taste, and/or great wealth, or simply 'cool' or avante guard, etc etc.

Of course, there are all sorts of combinations of these two extremes. It's conceivable that some people actually and truly admire Cartier-Bresson's photo of an anonymous man skipping across a puddle, and may hang such photo on their wall, irrespective of any other considerations of increasing monetary value, or cultural projections that fit their persona.

All this is just my personal perspective. As a matter of fact, I'm seriously worried about the fact that I consider my own photos to be the best of all. This bias suggests I'm very vain and egotistical, which is a bit of a worry.
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John Camp

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 11:26:21 pm »

American art was always dominated by some kind of landscape work, at least until the 1950s; even pop artists like Wayne Thiebaud did some pretty interesting landscapes; one of the best American abstractionists, Richard Diebenkorn, drew most of his best painting from the landscape. I believe it's because when the first European colonists got here, and well through the 19th century, land, and in particular, wild land and the frontier, were dominant cultural and political issues in a way they simply were not in Europe (of the time.) Americans developed an aesthetic around the idea of renewal and progress and possibilities, and land was central to all of those things. Hence, the Hudson River School and the romantics, and the later realists like Winslow Homer down through certain modernists like Edward Hopper...and on into photography. Does Europe even have an institution like the Sierra Club, an explicitly environmentalist group dating back 120 years, dedicated to the preservation of wilderness?

Another difference: In Europe, landscapes tended to involve an appreciation of the influence of humanity on the landscape -- Constable, for example, or Corot or Cezanne or van Gogh. House and fields and pastures. American painters tended to glorify the wild, the wilderness, God's realm.

A difference in taste and culture.

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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 03:36:59 am »

Alain replies to Fred in English. This is either very ironic; they have been expats so long they have forgotten their native tongue (can happen); they are internationalists of a high order; they are simply being kind to the rest of us.

What do they hold against the dictionary business and a little excitement?

;-)

Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 10:53:57 am »

"Wow! What a wonderful post, Patricia.This is an interesting plot for a Lula romance. Patricia enjoys a few cognacs, but more than one small glass of red wine is anathema to Rob's health. A marriage with problems from the start? Will Patricia be able to sacrifice her penchant for a few glasses of cognac in order to achieve harmonious union with Rob? We're holding our breath for the next episode."


Ray, you simply have to consult with our people who will, in due course, consult with your people. We are ever open to negotiation and the exchange of business ideas. Perhaps LuLa might care to sponsor a boat trip along the Canal du Midi (with full mariner support included, of course, though an adventure by hotel barge instead would save the sponsor money on ancillary staff)? You know whom to contact.

I wonder about your twin options (I accept you cover your bets by including all the stops in between) as motivators for hanging a photograph, but I suppose there’s truth in both the extremes. Where there is no room for argument, however, is in your belief that your own work is the best. Of course it is. I have always shared that point of view – how else could one face the commercial world with less personal armour than that basic tenet?

“First, the obvious and most prevalent reason to hang any picture on a wall is because it has emotional relevance. It resonates with some past experience. It may be a picture of a dog, one's marriage, one's kids, one's wife, one's graduation ceremony, the Bratislava cup for Ice Hockey, one's father, one's great grandfather, the scene down the road, or even an Ansel Adam's photo of Yosemite because one visited the place and was mightily impressed by the beauty of the scenery, etc etc.”

I think you have posited the main reason for the young hanging posters in their bedroom. However filling the home with photographs of weddings, children, their children (ad infinitum), students wearing grad hats, all of that tends (to me) to smack of obligation rather than personal choice; I sense the presence of dominant others. Those photographs belong in albums or large biscuit tins. As an aside, I worry about the concatenation of dogs, marriage, kids and wife; whatever created that?

There’s some truth, borne out in my own experience, in the idea of the value of the photographic memento: we bought some prints (and books, too) from a talented photographer at his gallery in Sarlat. But, I really wonder if the motive was as simple as something to hang on the wall – in our bedroom, in the event – rather than something on which to hang! Emotions are strange things; I sometimes wonder if premonition can strike a decade before its time.

“At the other extreme, one may have the need to create a persona that attempts to describe a fictional representation of who you would really like to be.”

That’s a real and ever present danger. But, can one argue that if the need is already there to create that representation of self, then that’s who and what one really is, that it’s only circumstance that prevents the flowering of self that would permit what might otherwise be seen only as façade, a fiction of self? I certainly hope that most of the people that I’ve met are not really only what they appear to be!

“You may then choose paintings or photos to hang on your wall that correspond with that artificial persona. Paintings or photos that indicate to others that you are a person of taste, and/or great wealth, or simply 'cool' or avant-garde, etc. etc.”

The flaw in the position, of course, is that without that native taste one wouldn’t really know which things to choose in order to create the mythical ‘you’. (I am excluding, here, those who can afford to hire professional interior designers/decorators, by which stage they have no need to apologize to anyone for their decorative style. Was it not ever so?) And, even more fundamentally, would one even be aware of the lacking elements in one’s desired image were the intrinsic quality not already there in the current manifestation of the perceived self?

As I have noted before, and modern technology bears out, there are always more answers than questions, not a commonly shared opinion.

Rob C

alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 11:03:20 am »

Alain replies to Fred in English. This is either very ironic; they have been expats so long they have forgotten their native tongue (can happen); they are internationalists of a high order; they are simply being kind to the rest of us.

What do they hold against the dictionary business and a little excitement?

;-)

Rob C

That and so everyone can read my post.  I don't want to leave anyone out.
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Alain Briot
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alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 11:05:52 am »

I think Alain did it very well to move to the US for what he wanted to do.

I was told, and later saw, the writing on the wall!
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 01:32:50 pm »

That and so everyone can read my post.  I don't want to leave anyone out.



I trust that the smile on your pic was echoed as you wrote?

;-)

Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 01:34:57 pm »

I was told, and later saw, the writing on the wall!



Just as well you don't shoot it: that's Michael's baby!

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2010, 04:56:48 pm »

My thanks too for the quick insights in these essays. And #2 makes a case for the importance to photography of patience in both photographer and spouse: apparently Alain kept his wife waiting at least half an hour in order to get that wonderful photo.
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alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2010, 05:22:45 pm »



I trust that the smile on your pic was echoed as you wrote?

;-)

Rob C

Yes  ;)
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Alain Briot
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alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 05:24:09 pm »

My thanks too for the quick insights in these essays. And #2 makes a case for the importance to photography of patience in both photographer and spouse: apparently Alain kept his wife waiting at least half an hour in order to get that wonderful photo.

You are welcome.  I did leave her alone (actually she had to walk back home instead of me giving her a ride). But, this photograph paid for a lot of things afterwards so all is well !  Plus I never saw the same light ever again.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 05:35:48 pm by alainbriot »
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Alain Briot
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alainbriot

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2010, 05:37:20 pm »



Just as well you don't shoot it: that's Michael's baby!

Rob C

To each his own.  I actually did a lot of street photography in Paris when I started being interested in photography.  Mostly black and white.  In the end I prefered landscapes.
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Lisa Nikodym

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 12:11:08 pm »

Quote
American art was always dominated by some kind of landscape work, at least until the 1950s; even pop artists like Wayne Thiebaud did some pretty interesting landscapes; one of the best American abstractionists, Richard Diebenkorn, drew most of his best painting from the landscape. I believe it's because when the first European colonists got here, and well through the 19th century, land, and in particular, wild land and the frontier, were dominant cultural and political issues in a way they simply were not in Europe (of the time.) Americans developed an aesthetic around the idea of renewal and progress and possibilities, and land was central to all of those things. Hence, the Hudson River School and the romantics, and the later realists like Winslow Homer down through certain modernists like Edward Hopper...and on into photography. Does Europe even have an institution like the Sierra Club, an explicitly environmentalist group dating back 120 years, dedicated to the preservation of wilderness?

Another difference: In Europe, landscapes tended to involve an appreciation of the influence of humanity on the landscape -- Constable, for example, or Corot or Cezanne or van Gogh. House and fields and pastures. American painters tended to glorify the wild, the wilderness, God's realm.

A difference in taste and culture.

I think  John has hit it, but it's not just a difference in taste and culture, but a difference in history.  Europe has been heavily populated for so long that “landscape” is that thing that people have been modifying, farming, and living on for millennia.  It’s not “cool”.  Large portions of the U.S. were wild frontier not too many generations ago (and in the case of large swaths of Alaska, even now).  It was true wilderness.  It was “cool”.  I’m also thinking back to Ken Burns’ recent mega-documentary on the national park system.  When the railroads were first being built across the country, they intentionally built them past some of the greatest natural wonders (such as Yellowstone, Glacier National Park, etc.) and built hotels there, in order to attract vacationers from the cities back east.  They mounted large, long-running advertising campaigns in order to attract tourists there, including artists’ renditions of those places, which probably acted as a spur to the “landscape art is cool” attitude among Americans.  Enough ramblings for now...

Lisa
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JohnKoerner

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2010, 01:41:26 pm »

I have a question for Alain, if he watch this thread, as I know he has been student in the Paris fine arts just before me (well, a lot before me) and therefore knows very well the european art scene.
I'm very surprised that landscape photography, that you call "art photography" in the us, is completly absent from the europeans galleries. There is no market here for landscapes.
Is that has something to do with culture according to you?
It seems that being a "landscaper" the only destination is the US. Am I right?


Intersting observation and I never really considered this actually.

In rubbing my chin on this for a minute, I would say this fact (if indeed it is a fact) boils down to two basic reasons: (1) There is no European nation that can in any way compare to the majesty and sheer size of the United States of America; and (2) Europe is defined more by a deep history in cultures (people, art, buildings, etc.) than it is by its natural terrain.

Regarding 1, the sheer size of America makes its land the attraction. I mean America has mere states that are larger than any European country. The notion of "The Wild Frontier" is what America really is all about (or at least it used to be) to many tourists and immigrants: majestic mountants, yawning canyons, endless forest terrain, prairies and prairies of rich soils and grass, more "ocean views" than any other nation ... America is all about ITS LAND. We simply have more "landscape opportunities" to offer in every natural respect than any European nation could possibly hold a candle to.

By contrast, regarding 2) Europe has a much richer people history than America--literally centuries-worth. People-wise, everyone in the US is a "mutt," a mix of different races and cultures, with no real "pure culture" of our own to speak of. In being a "melting pot," America became devoid of any real purity or individuality--and, hence, of little interest to anyone else, culturally. By contrast, people who go to France can get truly steeped in French culture and art; those who go Italy can immerse themselves here and do the same for this culture. It is the human art and culture which holds the interest in Europe ... whereas it is "The Call of the Wild" which holds the interest in America.

However, as America's wilderness areas rapidly decline, it is hard to say just how long this will last ...

That's my $0.02 ...

Jack




.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 01:44:51 pm by John Koerner »
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fredjeang

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2010, 01:57:00 pm »

I think all the observations made in this thread are very good indeed.

The question emerge: Do we have in Europe enough material (enough good landscape locations) to photograph as in the US ?

-I do think so if we take it from the very north to the very south.
-The other advantage is that the climat and type of countryside changes faster in shorter distance than in America. So a motorised landscaper has access to more diversity in shorter distances.

I do not think it has that much to do with the terrain nature but indeed cultural-historical heritage.
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2010, 03:04:26 pm »

I'm afraid John summed it up unintentionally "yawning canyons"...

Yes, Europe has a hell of a lot of diversity and probably within a short distance (relatively) from where you start your journey. For example, start in Cannes and drive up northwards a few miles...  go to the Costa del Sol for beaches and snow in the same day (Cyprus claims the same thing), or try  Almeria like Sergio Leone did if you want Wild West. Hell, try Scotland in winter and if it doesn't kill you, and it has actually snowed, your money just came home. Want lava? Try the Canaries.

The trouble is, much landscape of the canyon type depends on what you, as viewer, bring to the party; you expect 'huge and monumental' because all that you read about US landscape is steeped in the idea of the wide open spaces; you are preconditioned.

But that's not really the point, is it?

It's a psychological matter and not something dependent on photographic opportunity; it's a question of the type of subject matter that excites your juices into action. Does any of this mean that the 'European' image type doesn't sell in the States as well as the trees'n'rocks stuff, or is it more a matter of which economic group's doing the buying? Is it a question of sophistication, or is that as suspect a quantity as anything/everything(?) else?

Rob C

fredjeang

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2010, 04:17:58 pm »

I'm afraid John summed it up unintentionally "yawning canyons"...

Yes, Europe has a hell of a lot of diversity and probably within a short distance (relatively) from where you start your journey. For example, start in Cannes and drive up northwards a few miles...  go to the Costa del Sol for beaches and snow in the same day (Cyprus claims the same thing), or try  Almeria like Sergio Leone did if you want Wild West. Hell, try Scotland in winter and if it doesn't kill you, and it has actually snowed, your money just came home. Want lava? Try the Canaries.

The trouble is, much landscape of the canyon type depends on what you, as viewer, bring to the party; you expect 'huge and monumental' because all that you read about US landscape is steeped in the idea of the wide open spaces; you are preconditioned.

But that's not really the point, is it?

It's a psychological matter and not something dependent on photographic opportunity; it's a question of the type of subject matter that excites your juices into action. Does any of this mean that the 'European' image type doesn't sell in the States as well as the trees'n'rocks stuff, or is it more a matter of which economic group's doing the buying? Is it a question of sophistication, or is that as suspect a quantity as anything/everything(?) else?
Rob C
Great question!
I think the answer maybe included in the question itself.
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Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2010, 03:21:31 pm »

Great question!
I think the answer maybe included in the question itself.


Could be why the thread seems to have run out. Pity; it was full of promise.

Rob C

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Re: Alain Briot's Brief Essays
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 04:00:16 am »

I do not think it has that much to do with the terrain nature but indeed cultural-historical heritage.
Me too...

First, there are a few successful landscape photographer here in France, like Yann Arthus-Bertrand ; with YAB the main twist with the classical american landscape is that there is always someone somewhere in the photos (yes, that tiny red speck is an assistant in a red parka freezing alone on the ice shelf while the boss enjoys the helicopter ride ;) ).
But there are very few (YAB, Plisson, and...) , and they are much more in the popular market than in the high-end art market.

Second, I'm not quite sure of that so I'll put it as a question : did the more "sophisticated" landscape styles like the new topographics manage to conquer the european art market?

I'd rather think that here, art is deeply associated with manly creation, and that goes down to the art subject as well. Something natural can't quite be real art in this vision.
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