Colormunki, new paper type

[eddysmit]

Hi, I finally have bought a Colormunki.
I hoped that it would solve my printing problem.
No way, after making a profile, still to dark images with Snow, PS4 and my Epson 7600. And to red and dark when I use the Gutenprinterdriver.

Something goes wrong...
The calibrating patches look to dark when I print with the Epson driver, and OK when I use Gutenprinter.

In the manual I see that I have to select the correct paper type.
Now, how do I select a NEW papertype? For example, I want to use Canon paper on my Epson and want to make a profile?
Is there a way to put that paper in the paperselectionbox of the printerdialog?
What is the name of extension of sutch a file? Is it the same as a ICC profile?
What's the difference betwenn ICC ans ICM?

[Doyle Yoder]

Hi, I finally have bought a Colormunki.
I hoped that it would solve my printing problem.
No way, after making a profile, still to dark images with Snow, PS4 and my Epson 7600. And to red and dark when I use the Gutenprinterdriver.

Something goes wrong...
The calibrating patches look to dark when I print with the Epson driver, and OK when I use Gutenprinter.

In the manual I see that I have to select the correct paper type.
Now, how do I select a NEW papertype? For example, I want to use Canon paper on my Epson and want to make a profile?
Is there a way to put that paper in the paperselectionbox of the printerdialog?
What is the name of extension of sutch a file? Is it the same as a ICC profile?
What's the difference betwenn ICC ans ICM?

Are you using Epson's version 8.19 driver?

Doyle

[eddysmit]

Are you using Epson's version 8.19 driver?

Doyle

Yes Doyle,
I do.
I allso have deleted the printer a few times.
Maybe something wrong in colorsync?
Where are the blue dots supposed to stand? And how to change that?

[Doyle Yoder]

Yes Doyle,
I do.
I allso have deleted the printer a few times.
Maybe something wrong in colorsync?
Where are the blue dots supposed to stand? And how to change that?

On my 9600 with the 8.19 driver the blue dot is on sRGB profile.

Did you delete all files under /Library/Printers/EPSON when you deleted the printer?

What driver settings are you using with ColorMunki? I am pretty sure that ColorMunki uses Apple's old printing path so you should be using Epson Color Control under Color Matching and under Print Settings/Color Settings: Off (No Color Adjustment).

Doyle

[cocasana]

Have a look here:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx...;SupportID=4662
Hope it helps!

[eddysmit]

On my 9600 with the 8.19 driver the blue dot is on sRGB profile.

Did you delete all files under /Library/Printers/EPSON when you deleted the printer?

What driver settings are you using with ColorMunki? I am pretty sure that ColorMunki uses Apple's old printing path so you should be using Epson Color Control under Color Matching and under Print Settings/Color Settings: Off (No Color Adjustment).

Doyle

Doyle, I think deleting the files was the trick. Now the prints look pretty good.
The blue dot is on EPSON Stylus Pro 7600 at the moment.
Only a few colors ara distorted. For example, blond hair is almost orangegold at some places.
Maybe I have to try: Optimize Existing Profile.

I want to profile Canon paper. It is not in the driver setting. How do you pro's start with it?

Thanks for all your time and advice!

[PhilipCummins]

I want to profile Canon paper. It is not in the driver setting. How do you pro's start with it?

I'm not a pro however I recommend you compare the existing paper types and try to get the correct type of paper (gloss/matte/art), then as close to the correct GSM and experiment to see which media settings work best for you. By default, Epson (and Canon) only really support their own paper types so adding additional paper types in the driver isn't really supported (though, some drivers support this or have programs to do it). For example, Ilford Smooth Pearl recommends using Premium SemiGloss Photo Paper with Best Print Quality on Vivid. (Check www.ilford.com out for other ideas/settings). You'll need to generate the profiles with ColorSync on Generic RGB to disable the Epson colour management to avoid issues under 10.6. If you have some equivalent paper in 6x4 you can use this to print on for use with the ColorMunki by scaling the output from A4 -> 6x4 to avoid chewing up massive amounts of paper & ink (though, probably not a big issue under the 7600?)

Having said that the best way to think about it is the paper media types control the printer in how much ink it lays down, how thick to expect the paper, how long to wait before printing more etc. Once you've printed and generated the profile with the ColorMunki this then modifies how the driver sees the colour to print to modify the output to make it match what you expect via ColorSync. (BTW - canned profiles can be with suffix .icc or .icm, both are the same thing, however some programs can only see .icc, and others only .icm files).

So, you need to experiment with your preset paper types (from Epson) to generate a profile (I recommend saving yourself a printer preset so you can record/repeat the process), then you can use your ColorSync Utility to compare gamuts as well as sample prints to see which setting you prefer. ICC profiles on the Mac will need to head into /Library/ColorSync/Profiles (or ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles) then you can use the same printer presets to print from Photoshop, selecting the ICC profile you prefer.

You may be able in your drivers (and on your printer, since it's pretty high end) generate some additional paper media types however you'd need to check the manuals to see if there's support for this or utilities to help you do it. (I think the Windows Epson drivers did let you get some more control over the settings + generate paper types, but not sure about the Epson Mac drivers).

[eddysmit]

Philip,
thank you for joining this forum to help me with this problem. I really appriciate this.
You say: You'll need to generate the profiles with ColorSync on Generic RGB to disable the Epson colour management to avoid issues under 10.6.

Colorsync is still a kind of mistery for me.
How do I do this? Now I have a blue dot on Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and not on a profile.
What is the meaning of this dot and how can I change it.

I think you are a pro in colour management  

[PhilipCummins]

Philip, thank you for joining this forum to help me with this problem. I really appriciate this.
You say: You'll need to generate the profiles with ColorSync on Generic RGB to disable the Epson colour management to avoid issues under 10.6. How do I do this?

Not a problem - from what I've been reading the 2 options appear to be either:

1) Switch to ColorSync and select a Generic RGB profile instead of Automatic (mostly for Canon printers now under 10.6)
2) Switch to Epson Colour Management (instead of ColorSync) and then disable the colour management entirely in the Epson Color Management sections.

Basically if your printer supports its own colour management that can be switched off I'd try that (it seems Epson does). The alternative is to use ColorSync however switching it into Generic RGB mode to disable the colour management (this is what I had to do on the Canon printers). See http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat...essage=34104136 - you'll want to be running Mac OS X 10.6.3 and ColorMunki 1.1.1 software first however.

Once you're able to do this you should be able to get the ColorMunki software to print the targets without ColorSync (or drivers) munging the data up (hopefully). You should save a printer preset and triple check the settings to ensure none have changed between printing the two targets. After that it's a matter of testing with Photoshop with some test images by selecting Photoshop Manages Colors, the setting the new profile and having it in Perceptual rendering mode. If you use soft proofing you can test to see if the soft proof matches what you expect from the printer. You'll need to get some good light sources to compare (ie, daylight) as Tungsten or CCFL's can play games with your eyes unless the profile is really right off.

With paper types you'll need to experiment with which paper type works best with your paper you're profiling since most drivers only allow their own paper types that you have to shoehorn others into. (At least, this is true of Canon, Epson may have additional settings that can help you out). Even small changes like switching quality modes (ie, Fast -> Slow) can have a big difference in how the paper reacts (try in soft proof mode) so I recommend just sizing the ColorMunki targets to 6x4 sheets to avoid large ink/paper use costs.

Now I have a blue dot on Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and not on a profile. What is the meaning of this dot and how can I change it.

If that's in ColorSync Utility for Devices it means it's the default profile for the printer for media types that don't have their own profile provided. You'll probably see there's factory profiles for the standard types of paper from Epson usually Matte Paper-HW (MPHW), Premium Gloss Photo Paper (PGPP), Photo Quality IJP (PQIJ) and so on. For Canon there's Photo Paper Pro (PR), Photo Paper Plus Glossy (SP), Matte Photo Paper (MP) with varying quality levels (1 = Best, 4 = Fastest). I haven't tried modifying the preset profiles as I prefer to use programs like Photoshop to choose a profile instead.

I think you are a pro in colour management

Not sure about that myself (since I'm still learning via a long uphill slog) but hopefully the above helps you out, be interested to see how you go.

[eddysmit]

Thank you Doyle and Philip!

So what have I learned:
- Delete the Epson library after any change of version and driver.
- A calibrated IMac screen is very dark  
- Colour management and coloursync isn't easy.
- The help off all this international friends is wonderfull  

Now I have to order new fuel for my Epson.
I have some ink from a Epson 5500. Can I use it in my 7600? After profiling this combination?

[PhilipCummins]

Thank you Doyle and Philip!

Not a problem.

- Delete the Epson library after any change of version and driver.
- A calibrated IMac screen is very dark  

Either that or download the full Epson driver package from Apple to install (I think it's up to 2.3.1 now), it's possible the smaller partial updates are missing a few things. As for your iMac screen you should be calibrating to about 120 - 150 cd/m2, it shouldn't be too dark but should be able to discern all the colours properly.

- Colour management and coloursync isn't easy.

Unfortunately it's a bit harder than what it should be. Most of the time people simply use preset profiles for media paper types, however I need to do some more experiments to see about setting the default profile for media paper types, it's a shame the manufacturers don't really support adding more media paper types easily. I'll probably pick up a CISS for my A4 printer for printing on some Kodak paper of some photos I've taken.

I have some ink from a Epson 5500. Can I use it in my 7600? After profiling this combination?

I don't believe so; the cartridges seem to be different model numbers. In general you probably want to switch entire ink sets (if using 3rd party ones) and then profile (once you've flushed all the ink through), otherwise the difference in ink colours can throw the profiles off.