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Author Topic: Big day for the US  (Read 21153 times)

fredjeang

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Big day for the US
« on: March 23, 2010, 03:42:03 pm »

Congratulations for the US !
This is truly an historic date.  

Fred.

Ps: Next step is: Kyoto treaty?
or a 100% made in US dslr?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 03:43:15 pm by fredjeang »
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Jeremy Payne

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Big day for the US
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2010, 04:15:23 pm »

It is a good start ... but the fight is long from over ... I'm excited at the legislative miracle Pelosi and Obama pulled off, but it isn't time to relax or celebrate IMO.

This legislation can be repealed ... and much of the plan requires future congresses to take additional action.

Let's not forget that in 1988, Medicare was substantially expanded to include catastrophic coverage and it was repealed within a year.
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vjbelle

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Big day for the US
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 05:20:43 pm »

Quote from: fredjeang
Congratulations for the US !
This is truly an historic date.  

Fred.

Ps: Next step is: Kyoto treaty?
or a 100% made in US dslr?
Would you mind telling me what this has to do with Photography or this site??? I think that political posts such as this should be banned from LL.  There are many other places to post controversial political opinions.
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Jeremy Payne

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Big day for the US
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 05:24:25 pm »

Quote from: vjbelle
Would you mind telling me what this has to do with Photography or this site??? I think that political posts such as this should be banned from LL.  There are many other places to post controversial political opinions.
Umm ... go look at the "What's New" part of the main page ...

Michael chose to comment on this.

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thebatman

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Big day for the US
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 05:30:09 pm »

Hopefully Michael and others will post similar congratulations 20 years from now when the US declares bankruptcy.  But admittedly I am biased: a Canadian who left for the USA, and now finds that the US is turning into Canada!  Can't win.
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jasonrandolph

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Big day for the US
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 05:31:09 pm »

I'm amazed at how willing people are to give up their liberty and their privacy in order to let the government be in charge of their well-being.  Name one thing (other than national defense) that the government does better than the private sector.

If that's not enough to dissuade you from the idea of gov't-run health care, how about a case study?  As a disabled veteran, I've personally experienced government-run health care.  Imagine this (and this has personally happened to me):  You need an appointment with your primary care provider.  You call them for an appointment and they tell you they will inform on a later date you when your appointment is scheduled.  You wait.  And wait.  You call them and ask about your appointment request, and they say THEY will "inform" YOU.  A few weeks (actually about 6 weeks), you receive a letter in the mail telling you that your appointment is scheduled for two days ago.  You call them and tell them that you missed your appointment because the notification was received after the appointment had come and gone.  They are irritated because your file says you missed your appointment, so they reschedule you for an appointment for two months later.  In the meantime, you have been waiting 5 months to see your doctor, and your condition hasn't improved.  What a glorious system.  If they treat veterans that way, imagine how they'll treat the general public.

No one has died from lack of gov't health care.  To say otherwise is simply false.  All you have to do is go the the ER.  By law, they are not allowed to turn anyone away.  Yes, we do need to reform health care, namely, the way patients are allowed to sue a doctor out of house & home for the slightest mistake.  Or how about opening health insurance up to some interstate competition?  

Sorry to get up on the soapbox, but I know what's coming, and all I have to say is: be careful what you wish for.  You might just get it.

Jeremy Payne

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Big day for the US
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 05:33:04 pm »

Quote from: thebatman
Hopefully Michael and others will post similar congratulations 20 years from now when the US declares bankruptcy.  But admittedly I am biased: a Canadian who left for the USA, and now finds that the US is turning into Canada!  Can't win.

Given that we already provide universal health care in a VERY expensive manner, I don't see how paying for it in a more sensible way could possibly bankrupt us.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see ...

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perl_monger

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Big day for the US
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 05:38:21 pm »

Is this a good joke? Is Michael that unaware? Has he or any of you bothered to read any of the 2,600 page bill?

The US "provide its citizens with health care"? What have I been missing? I've lived in the US since birth - for 51 years - and I don't recall not having health care. The US in fact provides the best health care in the world - well, it did, until the government gets hold of it. That's why US hospitals along the Canadian border do such a booming business - providing health care or providing it a level of quality that Canada can't or won't provide.

"Universal" health care is great - until you get sick. Then you're at the mercy of a political process or some bureaucrat.

Is the current system perfect? No. No system is. But it was a market based system, and market based systems have a way of working themselves out. That's why Michael and everyone else on this forum uses product that is market based and not single sourced by some government.

And I don't buy the "rest of the developed world" crap either. The US is different and wants to be different. That's why the overwhelming majority of the population opposes the bill, why attorneys general of 37 states have or will sue on constitutional grounds, why there will be political hell to pay for it, and why this current crop of corruptocrats are finished.


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thebatman

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Big day for the US
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 05:39:52 pm »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Given that we already provide universal health care in a VERY expensive manner, I don't see how paying for it in a more sensible way could possibly bankrupt us.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see ...

I guess so, but I'd rather not have to tell my kids, "oops, sorry about that, we were all wrong and now you'll be paying for it for the rest of your life".  It's $1 trillion dollars of which at least 2/3 is unfunded, because (1) in the first 10 years it's 6 years of benefits but 10 years of taxes, to fudge the real cost, and (2) another 1/3 of the cost is funded via medicare cuts to doctors which we know congress will never pass.

And Jason - sounds like Canadian health care to me! My father in law just had a big heart attack and waited 10 weeks for sextuple (yep, six) bypass surgery, which down here he would have had same day.  Oh well, perhaps I will go produce a photo essay of all the government-run-or-regulated things that work so well: the post office, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, airlines, the auto industry, the IRS, the DMV.
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ckimmerle

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Big day for the US
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2010, 05:46:28 pm »

Quote from: perl_monger
I've lived in the US since birth - for 51 years - and I don't recall not having health care.

I'm sure the fact that YOU have insurance makes the tens of millions that do not feel much better. Thank you for putting that into perspective.

BTW, this thread outta be locked....right....now!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 05:47:46 pm by ckimmerle »
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jasonrandolph

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Big day for the US
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2010, 05:47:27 pm »

Quote from: thebatman
I guess so, but I'd rather not have to tell my kids, "oops, sorry about that, we were all wrong and now you'll be paying for it for the rest of your life".  It's $1 trillion dollars of which at least 2/3 is unfunded, because (1) in the first 10 years it's 6 years of benefits but 10 years of taxes, to fudge the real cost, and (2) another 1/3 of the cost is funded via medicare cuts to doctors which we know congress will never pass.

And Jason - sounds like Canadian health care to me! My father in law just had a big heart attack and waited 10 weeks for sextuple (yep, six) bypass surgery, which down here he would have had same day.  Oh well, perhaps I will go produce a photo essay of all the government-run-or-regulated things that work so well: the post office, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, airlines, the auto industry, the IRS, the DMV.

Hmm, seems like the more regulations that govern a department, the less efficient it's run.  Maybe there's an inversely proportional relationship between the two.  I'm telling you, people are going to be screaming to go back to the old system when they see how poorly-run the system will be.  And how many government departments have ever been shuttered?  We need to stop them NOW.

By the way, I hope your father-in-law makes it through this.  Tell him to come down here while there's still time.

jasonrandolph

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Big day for the US
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 05:51:51 pm »

Quote from: ckimmerle
I'm sure the fact that YOU have insurance makes the tens of millions that do not feel much better. Thank you for putting that into perspective.

He said health CARE, not health INSURANCE.  And everyone has access to health care in the current system.  Those of us who have insurance pay for it.

As an interesting aside, I have free medical care through the VA because of my service-connected disabilities.  But I choose to have private insurance because of the "quality" of gov't-provided care.  I'm telling you, you DO NOT want this.

PierreVandevenne

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Big day for the US
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 05:59:10 pm »

I've seen so many nice places on the Net damaged by this red hot issue. I also believe this topic should be closed asap!
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buckshot

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Big day for the US
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 06:02:08 pm »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
He said health CARE, not health INSURANCE.  And everyone has access to health care in the current system.  Those of us who have insurance pay for it.

As an interesting aside, I have free medical care through the VA because of my service-connected disabilities.  But I choose to have private insurance because of the "quality" of gov't-provided care.  I'm telling you, you DO NOT want this.

I've experienced govt-health care in Canada, the UK and France and in every instance it was first class and didn't cost me a penny. Sure, you pay for the service through your taxes, but so what - proportionally it's far cheaper than private medical insurance (and they don't turn you down) - and since they've got to spend your money on something, why not health care? Sure beats wasting it on stealth fighters and space-based weapons systems that's for sure.
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Jeremy Payne

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Big day for the US
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 06:06:29 pm »

Quote from: thebatman
I guess so, but I'd rather not have to tell my kids, "oops, sorry about that, we were all wrong and now you'll be paying for it for the rest of your life".  It's $1 trillion dollars ...

Please ... do you honestly believe that the wealthiest country in the world can't afford to provide decent health care to its population?

Nonsense.

A trillion dollars is only 7% of annual income ... that's a big number, but we are a HUGE country with a nearly $15 trillion economy.

We can afford it.  Don't believe ANYONE who says otherwise ... they are either ignorant of the facts to pursuing a different agenda.

You can oppose this ... but not because we can't afford it ... we can't afford NOT to do this.
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tokengirl

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Big day for the US
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 06:18:14 pm »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
I'm amazed at how willing people are to give up their liberty and their privacy in order to let the government be in charge of their well-being.  Name one thing (other than national defense) that the government does better than the private sector.

If that's not enough to dissuade you from the idea of gov't-run health care, how about a case study?  As a disabled veteran, I've personally experienced government-run health care.  Imagine this (and this has personally happened to me):  You need an appointment with your primary care provider.  You call them for an appointment and they tell you they will inform on a later date you when your appointment is scheduled.  You wait.  And wait.  You call them and ask about your appointment request, and they say THEY will "inform" YOU.  A few weeks (actually about 6 weeks), you receive a letter in the mail telling you that your appointment is scheduled for two days ago.  You call them and tell them that you missed your appointment because the notification was received after the appointment had come and gone.  They are irritated because your file says you missed your appointment, so they reschedule you for an appointment for two months later.  In the meantime, you have been waiting 5 months to see your doctor, and your condition hasn't improved.  What a glorious system.  If they treat veterans that way, imagine how they'll treat the general public.

Sorry to hear the VA facility you frequent is run so crappily.  The one here in Miami is AMAZINGLY efficient.  My Better Half has never waited 6 weeks for an appointment, or even close to it.  He has never received a letter about an upcoming appointment after the fact, and they have an automated machine that calls us two days before the appointment to remind us.  His prescriptions are filled in a timely manner, and prescription refills are done over the phone and mailed to the house.  All his medical records are computerized (including any prescriptions) and every doctor that sees him looks at his entire record on the screen right there in front of him so they know everything that's going on with him.  I wish everyone had access to this kind of service.

My Better Half is a hard-core right-wing tinfoil hat-wearing Rush Lumpbutt-listening conspiracy theorist tea-bagger.  But I sure haven't heard him complain about HIS "government-run healthcare".
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:30:19 pm by tokengirl »
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fredjeang

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Big day for the US
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 06:20:45 pm »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Please ... do you honestly believe that the wealthiest country in the world can't afford to provide decent health care to its population?

Nonsense.

A trillion dollars is only 7% of annual income ... that's a big number, but we are a HUGE country with a nearly $15 trillion economy.

We can afford it.  Don't believe ANYONE who says otherwise ... they are either ignorant of the facts to pursuing a different agenda.

You can oppose this ... but not because we can't afford it ... we can't afford NOT to do this.
I totally agree Jeremy.

USA was the only place of the richest contry in the world that did not provide this basic service for free!
Maybe Germany or France etc...are third world nation?

I hear some comments saying that USA is the most powerfull country because it did not have to pay this kind of things...
Wrong. USA is the richest country in the world because it won the world war, and because it has a huge territory and great ressources with a wondefull machinery.
Lets see then if with full health care insurance coverage, Europe or even China are not soon at the same level?
Healph care has nothing to do with how rich a country is, but a lot to do with how decent a country is.

Fred.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 06:29:27 pm by fredjeang »
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wthomphoto

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Big day for the US
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 06:22:32 pm »

Quote from: jasonrandolph
I'm amazed at how willing people are to give up their liberty and their privacy in order to let the government be in charge of their well-being.  Name one thing (other than national defense) that the government does better than the private sector.

If that's not enough to dissuade you from the idea of gov't-run health care, how about a case study?  As a disabled veteran, I've personally experienced government-run health care.  Imagine this (and this has personally happened to me):  You need an appointment with your primary care provider.  You call them for an appointment and they tell you they will inform on a later date you when your appointment is scheduled.  You wait.  And wait.  You call them and ask about your appointment request, and they say THEY will "inform" YOU.  A few weeks (actually about 6 weeks), you receive a letter in the mail telling you that your appointment is scheduled for two days ago.  You call them and tell them that you missed your appointment because the notification was received after the appointment had come and gone.  They are irritated because your file says you missed your appointment, so they reschedule you for an appointment for two months later.  In the meantime, you have been waiting 5 months to see your doctor, and your condition hasn't improved.  What a glorious system.  If they treat veterans that way, imagine how they'll treat the general public.

No one has died from lack of gov't health care.  To say otherwise is simply false.  All you have to do is go the the ER.  By law, they are not allowed to turn anyone away.  Yes, we do need to reform health care, namely, the way patients are allowed to sue a doctor out of house & home for the slightest mistake.  Or how about opening health insurance up to some interstate competition?  

Sorry to get up on the soapbox, but I know what's coming, and all I have to say is: be careful what you wish for.  You might just get it.
Medicare sure works for me.
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fredjeang

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Big day for the US
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 06:23:38 pm »

Quote from: vjbelle
Would you mind telling me what this has to do with Photography or this site??? I think that political posts such as this should be banned from LL.  There are many other places to post controversial political opinions.
Hey, you would have noticed that I also made a call for a 100% US camera dslr.  
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Big day for the US
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 06:25:43 pm »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Please ... do you honestly believe that the wealthiest country in the world can't afford to provide decent health care to its population?

Nonsense.

A trillion dollars is only 7% of annual income ... that's a big number, but we are a HUGE country with a nearly $15 trillion economy.

We can afford it.  Don't believe ANYONE who says otherwise ... they are either ignorant of the facts to pursuing a different agenda.

You can oppose this ... but not because we can't afford it ... we can't afford NOT to do this.
Exactly. I find it amusing (though sickeningly so) how those who complain about the cost of the health care reform do not complain about gazillions of dollars per second that have been spent on a war of choice.
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