Mamiya Digital Backs

[Boris_Epix]

I'm not sure if someone has posted this before but it seems like Mamiya will sell old 18,22,31 Megapixel PhaseOne Backs with the Mamiya badge on them. Naming is so straight forward it seems like it has nothing to do with medium format (it's simply a M followed by the Megapixels - i.e. M18, M22, M31).

More info:
http://www.graphicart.ch/pages/5_Mittelformat/mamiya.htm

Google translation for non german speakers:
http://translate.google.ch/translate?u=htt...de&ie=UTF-8

The software will be Capture One DB as you have expected.

I don't really see what sense this move makes unless PhaseOne wants to drop the older offerings and focus on the P40+ and P65+. Mamiya could sell the old tech at a significantly reduced price with their own brand as a lower price brand. But as long as the Mamiya 645 is the PhaseOne camera of choice I'm not sure if splitting up into a high-cost and a low-cost brand would make sense if the camera platform is the same. And where is the P45+ in this lineup?

And is this the end of the Mamiya DL28 (Leaf back on Mamiya 645 cam) offering in the states?

[Anders_HK]

I'm not sure if someone has posted this before but it seems like Mamiya will sell old 18,22,31 Megapixel PhaseOne Backs with the Mamiya badge on them. Naming is so straight forward it seems like it has nothing to do with medium format (it's simply a M followed by the Megapixels - i.e. M18, M22, M31).

More info:
http://www.graphicart.ch/pages/5_Mittelformat/mamiya.htm

Google translation for non german speakers:
http://translate.google.ch/translate?u=htt...de&ie=UTF-8

The software will be Capture One DB as you have expected.

I don't really see what sense this move makes unless PhaseOne wants to drop the older offerings and focus on the P40+ and P65+. Mamiya could sell the old tech at a significantly reduced price with their own brand as a lower price brand. But as long as the Mamiya 645 is the PhaseOne camera of choice I'm not sure if splitting up into a high-cost and a low-cost brand would make sense if the camera platform is the same. And where is the P45+ in this lineup?

And is this the end of the Mamiya DL28 (Leaf back on Mamiya 645 cam) offering in the states?

The links you provide are German, so... simply looks as if Mamiya Germany are offering package deals with Phase One backs. The backs do not appear to have a Mamiya logo...

Mamiya in the States are different agent, and per what I understand have been agent for both Mamiya and Leaf for many years... why should that change because Mamiya in Germany does different???


I am in Hong Kong. The agent of Mamiya is agent for Mamiya, Toyo etc. At same time there are two agents for Leaf and one for Phase One. Obvious, you can get package with Mamiya camera and lens at either of the digital back agents, while at Phase One it cost extra because have a Phase One logo... Just comparison...

Regards
Anders

[aaron]

['Anders_HK' ]  The backs do not appear to have a Mamiya logo...

Yes but those backs do have a Mamiya logo! They are clearly re-badged as 'Mamiya M31',etc.. Wonder what they are selling for? If they are not significantly less than the phase equivalent then whats the point?

[Graham Mitchell]

old news!

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=33700

[aaron]

Yes its old news (or an old rumour) but since its seems to be retailing now its relevant information, lots of old news never makes it into a store!

[Graham Mitchell]

Yes its old news (or an old rumour) but since its seems to be retailing now its relevant information, lots of old news never makes it into a store!

So far this is just a repeat of an earlier thread. That site posted in the first post is just announcing news (which we already knew). There are no prices and nothing in stock.

[Anders_HK]

['Anders_HK' ]  The backs do not appear to have a Mamiya logo...

Yes but those backs do have a Mamiya logo! They are clearly re-badged as 'Mamiya M31',etc.. Wonder what they are selling for? If they are not significantly less than the phase equivalent then whats the point?

Please stop making up false. The SETS are labeled 'Mamiya M31' etc. The backs look nothing but standard P1 backs. Or... do you have access to photos other than those posted???

[aaron]

Please stop making up false. The SETS are labeled 'Mamiya M31' etc. The backs look nothing but standard P1 backs. Or... do you have access to photos other than those posted???

mmm, i am not making up anything. I am simply reading Mamiya M31 on the back where it use to say Phase One. Wheres the confusion? Its got nothing to do with them being offered as a set.

[Graham Mitchell]

Please stop making up false. The SETS are labeled 'Mamiya M31' etc. The backs look nothing but standard P1 backs. Or... do you have access to photos other than those posted???

I believe he is referring to this:



But as I wrote earlier, this is an old announcement.

[michael]

The rebadging of selected Phase One backs with a Mamiya badge is real, and is coming. This seems to have more to do with managing different distribution channels in different countries than anything else.

Remember, Phase One now essentially controls Mamiya.

I hope to be able to publish more details by this weekend.

Michael

[gwhitf]

Remember, Phase One now essentially controls Mamiya.

Oh, the horror. "If they only knew the errors of their ways".

The more images that I see with Phase products with Mamiya logos, the more I just see Hasselblad (and their backs) surging to the forefront of the industry.

When it's scotch-taped to that Mamiya body, you almost expect to see one of those bumper stickers on the back of the Phase back: "My Other Camera Is A Hasselblad".

Almost makes you wonder, businesswise, if it wouldn't have been better to, instead of getting in bed with Mamiya, for Phase to announce a Talent Search for all the H1 and H2 bodies out there, and when they showed up for the audition, just kidnap them and glue a Phase back on them.

Another one bites the dust.

[bcooter]

The rebadging of selected Phase One backs with a Mamiya badge is real, and is coming. This seems to have more to do with managing different distribution channels in different countries than anything else.

Remember, Phase One now essentially controls Mamiya.

I hope to be able to publish more details by this weekend.

Michael

Distribution channels?

How about just a bad mixed marketing effort?

Mamiya.com still shows a Leaf back (actually professionally photographed), the Mamiya Japan site shows the zd camera and Phase one's site doesn't say anything about any of this.

Is Phase is Mamiya or Mamiya is Phase say it loud, I guess proud and get on with it.

Also control the information stream so announcements don't come out of German dealer websites and speaking of control, I'm sure Phase could cut a deal with a good still life photographer or retoucher to put out an image of the "m31" that looks like a professional photograph, instead of a hot wheels version of a real camera.    It may not change the fact that it is a Hot Wheels version of a real camera, but at least it won't have fingerprint smudges.

Really, there are better fake images on those Canon rumor sites.

I'd hate to be a Phase dealer right now because what are they selling?   The p40, p65 and all the rest of Phase's line is now just clearing old stock with the Mamiya name?

I have this mental image that every time Phase One/Mamiya information comes out, all the Hasselblad employees join hands in a circle and say "thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you".

B

[Dave Gallagher]

Distribution channels?

How about just a bad mixed marketing effort?


B

OK, I have a question to ask.  Does anyone else think of Waldorf and Statler when they read BCooter's and gwhitf's posts?

 


Now, in this regard I have to admit to agreeing with the old Coot.    The information leaks are truly embarrassing.  And Phase One should try to control this much better than what they do.   It almost seems as though their marketing department has been on vacation for the last few months.  End users are not the only ones that are upset about this.  However, dealers are to blame as well.   Many of us are given private information and can't be trusted with it.  Unfortunately some of us can't keep information to ourselves until anticipated release dates.   And this makes Phase One look bad rather than that individual dealer.  

Now as for gwitf stating I completely disagree.   I am using a P45+ on a Contax today.  Shipped a P25 to a customer yesterday who is using it on a Hasse V and a Mamiya RZ, and just sold a P40+ to another customer who also ordered a full Cambo RS system along with his Mamiya AFD.   This is the #1 reason that Phase One is and still will be #1 in my book.  It is an open platform and will continue to be regardless of whether or not they own a percentage of Mamiya.  

Now I could go on and on but I won't.   I have to get back to work.......  

[michael]

As good a Phase One products are, that's how bad the company's marketing communications are. On the other hand Canon and Nikon are also plagued by loose-lipped distributors and dealers.

As for the strategy of rebadging Phase backs with the Mamiya logo, sorry, but I disagree that it's a mistake. Hasselblad has worked very hard to broaden their distribution channels and lower their pricing, and anyone wanting to compete with them has to follow suite. No point in taking the high road and then going out of business, and I can't see how anyone with any business experience can argue otherwise.

Mamiya and Phase One are now essentially one company with different marketing and distribution strategies and channels. Makes sense to me. When Hasselblad and Imacon merged they similarly had to navigate these issues. It appears that Phase and Mamiya will do it a bit differently, that's all.

Let's not beat around the bush either. Leaf's future is very much up in the air, as is the Hy6 project and its partner Sinar. If I were to bet who will be left standing 6 months from now, I'd put my money on Phase / Mamiya and Hasselblad. I could be wrong, and hope that I am, because competition benefits us all.

Michael

[narikin]

does this mean we will see Mamiya/Phase backs in what were 'mamiya only' retailers like B&H?

[Guy Mancuso]

As good a Phase One products are, that's how bad the company's marketing communications are. On the other hand Canon and Nikon are also plagued by loose-lipped distributors and dealers.

As for the strategy of rebadging Phase backs with the Mamiya logo, sorry, but I disagree that it's a mistake. Hasselblad has worked very hard to broaden their distribution channels and lower their pricing, and anyone wanting to compete with them has to follow suite. No point in taking the high road and then going out of business, and I can't see how anyone with any business experience can argue otherwise.

Mamiya and Phase One are now essentially one company with different marketing and distribution strategies and channels. Makes sense to me. When Phase One and Imacon merged they similarly had to navigate these issues. It appears that Phase and Mamiya will do it a bit differently, that's all.

Let's not beat around the bush either. Leaf's future is very much up in the air, as is the Hy6 project and its partner Sinar. If I were to bet who will be left standing 6 months from now, I'd put my money on Phase / Mamiya and Hasselblad. I could be wrong, and hope that I am, because competition benefits us all.

Michael

Hate to have to agree just because it makes the MF market smaller but the writing is on the wall and has been for awhile.

[michael]

does this mean we will see Mamiya/Phase backs in what were 'mamiya only' retailers like B&H?

I hope to be able to report something definitive about this soon. I have no hard information on specifics yet.

Michael

[pschefz]

i really could not care less since i sold my P30 and could not be happier, but hasselblad seems to be desperate....i get so many emails trying to sell me cheaper and cheaper 31 and 39 kits that i am wondering if i will have to start setting them up as spam......

the only thing i miss is bulletproof tethered speed....but then i see the happy faces when they see the 5DII files....

i only know 2 people who bought hasselblad and they have since sold their kits and gone phase (one with hass, one with mamiya)....

it will be interesting how long this obvious bleeding will go on, but now i have a feeling phase will be left standing.....mamiya has nothing to do with that at all....C1 and the choice of system has.....

[aaron]

I hope to be able to report something definitive about this soon. I have no hard information on specifics yet.

Michael

Come on Michael, spill the beans, keeping secrets is very bad for ones health..... better out than in....etc..etc.

[ziocan]

i really could not care less since i sold my P30 and could not be happier, but hasselblad seems to be desperate....i get so many emails trying to sell me cheaper and cheaper 31 and 39 kits that i am wondering if i will have to start setting them up as spam......

the only thing i miss is bulletproof tethered speed....but then i see the happy faces when they see the 5DII files....

Yet those 5dII files cannot even compare to the p30 ones.
Some prints, maybe may be mistaken by the herds, but the files, I do not think so.

then, of course we can push the 5dII photos under the door and the clients will still take it, but they aren't the same thing.