Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 12   Go Down

Author Topic: New PhaseOne - P40+  (Read 102910 times)

PHOTO ZARA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #160 on: April 30, 2009, 11:18:26 pm »

Quote from: dfarkas
Really nice mock-up. I think Phase would do well to go this direction. But... I doubt they will invest a lot of $$$ to rework their P-series back design. Right now they can just throw in a new sensor and they have another back in the line-up. To put in a higher res screen would involve a change to the body/chassis as well as updating the electronics to drive the higher res screen and generate more detailed previews and zoom views, all without sacrificing speed and performance. This is not that easy, and certainly not cheap. In this economy, many MFDB companies are adopting a more conservative R&D schedule. Keep in mind that the P65+ was announced at Photokina in Sept before the global meltdown. I'm sure that the P40+ was well along in development and had been on the road map alongside the P65+ at that time. So, consider this as a product that was already in the works and was on last fiscal year's books. I doubt that you will see any major redesign of the back or the P1 camera for quite some time. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see where the investment will come from.

David

I could go on with this topic but it's not worth our time so I'll make it short

"I doubt they will invest a lot of $$$" you say... THE END INVESTORS ARE ACTUALLY US CUSTOMERS (NEVER FORGET THAT) investing and paying triple of whatever the cost is some times even more.. you can believe that for sure  'cause even their dealers don't know what the true cost is.. of course they are told certain numbers to have during negotiation events and I'm sure most dealers believe that by default of course like in the car industry or any other but thats about it.

time is not on their side either, so things that are long overdue like that (their first generation screen if I'm not mistaken) LCD should be done soon so should number of others things along the same road but please don't lead me to believe that I or we should be worried about their pockets 'cause as i said before it's us who are paying for it

mind you we are talking here about the leader in this MFDB industry

as I wrote before if nothing "PLEASE KEEP THE DAMN SIZE BUT GLUE THE BETTER SCREEN ON"

shame but it can't be done cheaper than that!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:19:20 pm by PHOTO ZARA »
Logged

Ed Jack

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #161 on: May 01, 2009, 03:52:34 am »


 Is it too late for the leica S2 to have this sensor than what is currently planned (inferior?), which is I believe the sensor in the P30 - correct me if I'm wrong ? This would be the best use of this sensor, unless you are a MF shooter who often uses high iso for fashion or weddings etc...

As for landscape photographers, all this means is that the P45+ is a bit "cheaper" and in fact costs about the same as the P40+ now and alot less used. As has been menntioned already - why do you go into MF if you are not interested in sensor real estate and some niffty wide angle options ?

Even so the P40+ should be appluaded as a P60+ for thoose with smaller pockets and who are happy with teh chip size (as far as I am concerned the res (40MP) is fine)

Ed
Logged

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #162 on: May 01, 2009, 05:33:35 am »

Quote from: Ed Jack
Is it too late for the leica S2 to have this sensor than what is currently planned (inferior?), which is I believe the sensor in the P30 - correct me if I'm wrong ?

No, Leica is using something else with 3:2 ratio (unfortunately)
Logged

erick.boileau

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
    • http://
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #163 on: May 01, 2009, 05:44:52 am »

Quote
No, Leica is using something else with 3:2 ratio (unfortunately)
I really regret that choice too, I don't like it
Logged

georgl

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 140
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #164 on: May 01, 2009, 05:57:56 am »

The Phase One P40+ and P65+ and the Leaf Afi-ll 10 use the new DALSA 6micron-architecture, while the Hasselblad H3D-50 and the Leica S2 use the new Kodak 6micron-architecture.

Over the past decade, just a few new architecture-generations were developed, the predecessor of the Kodak/DALSA-6micron-architecture (7,2/6,8micron) was introduced about 4 years before so I don't think we can expect another step forward for another 3/4 years!

The architecture is the real technology inside the sensor, (used properly) defines sensitivity and DR - how big are the differences between the 31/39MP-Kodak-backs regarding IQ? What sizes you cut out or which filters/microlenses you use in the end, is another story.

I don't think we can expect major differences in IQ between cameras/backs using this architecture, it's more about the integration of the technology, the ergonomics, the mechanical quality and the lenses.

Using a 33x44mm-back on a 6x6 (Hy6) or 645-System makes it a "crop-system", heavier, bigger and slower than it needs to be. I think the market goes into two directions, really modular and big like P65+ and technical cameras/lenses, slow but superior IQ and flexibility. On the other side more compact systems with professional IQ like the S2. But old 645-systems with 1,3x crop? Maybe for people who "only" want to invest 20k$ to keep their system active...
Logged

tho_mas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #165 on: May 01, 2009, 06:38:27 am »

Quote from: gwhitf
When you look at that chart, I'm amazed that anyone would think that a P40+ is an "upgrade" to a P45+. You go from a nice big chip, and a large viewfinder image, back down to a cropped chip and a smaller viewfinder image.
that tells something about how Phase sees the ranking. It's ranking by resolution, not ranking by format. But hasn't it been always like this? It was always the order P45, P30, P25... instead of P45, P25, P30 ...

Quote from: PHOTO ZARA
not far away from your idea but it could be done!
I'd prefer the power button on the right side :-)
Logged

PHOTO ZARA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #166 on: May 01, 2009, 09:14:05 am »

Quote from: tho_mas
I'd prefer the power button on the right side :-)

on the right side but still on the front panel? :-)

seriously, I actually thought the power button could be positioned on the side panel left or right

but can't go away from the original design, you know R&D ;-)
Logged

Guy Mancuso

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
    • http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/index.php
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #167 on: May 01, 2009, 09:37:49 am »

I would think left since you have to hold the camera with your right hand which leaves your left hand free.
Logged
[url=http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showt

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1582
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #168 on: May 01, 2009, 10:21:22 am »

Quote from: dfarkas
Really nice mock-up. I think Phase would do well to go this direction. But... I doubt they will invest a lot of $$$ to rework their P-series back design.

David


And then again, maybe we will. Really, David, I think we're doing quite a good enough job of roiling up people's emotions without your assistance.    


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Logged
Steve Hendrix 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

tho_mas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #169 on: May 01, 2009, 10:39:46 am »

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
you have to hold the camera with your right hand
shooting hand held the camera "lies" (more) in my left hand to focus manually (and in addition nearly all adjustments of the Contax are on the right side). Too, to power on my camera (Contax) I take the right hand while holding the camera (more) in the left. Anyway... was intended as a little joke as I actually don't care at all were to power on the back.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 10:43:50 am by tho_mas »
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #170 on: May 01, 2009, 11:00:51 am »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
And then again, maybe we will. Really, David, I think we're doing quite a good enough job of roiling up people's emotions without your assistance.    


Steve Hendrix
Phase One


Now is a good time to turn this discussion to a money maker.

We can do a reality show "Battle Of The Medium Format Wars".

With all the dealers and reps on this forum we could hold a hell of a show.

It could be taped  in Estonia because God knows flights to Europe are cheap right now  and the judges could be Theirry and Foto Zee.

Can't you just feel the excitement, the suspense.

Question One.  Which medium format back has an LCD detailed enough to view from 9 inches

Buzz.

Phase  - Nope, Leaf/Hasselblad Yes but you can't tell if the subject is a man or a woman, Sinar (Sorry nobody is at the Sinar Podium).

Question two.   Which medium format back  has software that doesn't take a learning curve and a class.

Buzz.

Phase -  Nope, Hasselblad - No, Sinar (sorry nobody at the Sinar Podium), Leaf- YES

Question three.  Which medium format brand has a wide angle lens.

Buzz.

Phase - Yes but no leaf shutter deduct 1/2 point, Leaf - Nope, Hasselblad - Yes, but only works on H3's deduct 2 points, Sinar (Sorry nobody is at the Sinar Podium).

Question Four Which medium format company has software that is not in perpetual upgrade?

Buzz.  

Sorry no replies from the contestants.

Bonus Round Question One
- directed to the studio audience.

Of the Medium Format Digital Back Users/Owners, who in the studio audience could trade their Medium Format Digital Back for a Nikon D3x?

Just stand or hold up your hand.

Studio is quiet, oh no hold it, there is one person standing  . . . sorry that is a Nikon Rep on his way home.

Tune it next week for "Battle Of The Medium Format Wars", where the topic will be "selling used or upgrading" with a special Bonus Round for call in E-bay Power Sellers.

Roll Credits

Battle Of The Medium Format Wars is brought to you by
JUST STICKER IT a cost effective new way to upgrade your
digital back without having to remortgage your home.
Comes in 12 new designs, Phase P95+, Hasselblad H4dIII60, LeafAFI4-v2-75 and Sinar Espresso 31.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 11:14:04 am by bcooter »
Logged

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #171 on: May 01, 2009, 11:20:28 am »

Quote from: bcooter
It could be taped  in Estonia because God knows flights to Europe are cheap right now  and the judges could be Theirry and Foto Zee.

Haha, happy to oblige.
Logged

dfarkas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
    • http://www.leicastoremiami.com
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #172 on: May 01, 2009, 12:23:59 pm »

Quote from: Ed Jack
Is it too late for the leica S2 to have this sensor than what is currently planned (inferior?), which is I believe the sensor in the P30 - correct me if I'm wrong ? This would be the best use of this sensor, unless you are a MF shooter who often uses high iso for fashion or weddings etc...

The P40+ uses a 33x44mm 6um Dalsa chip. The S2 uses a 30x45mm 6um Kodak chip, not the older 31MP 6.8um sensor from the P30. These are of the same latest generation 6um architecture. As georgl wrote, the next sensor generation probably 3-4 years away. Both offerings from Kodak and Dalsa are the current state-of-the-art. I really don't think one or the other is inferior. There are small differences like max exposure time, but the pixel binning and high ISO performance should be very comparable.

David
Logged
David Farkas
Leica Store Miami
www.leicastoremiami.com

Check out Red Dot Forum for Leica news, reviews, blogs and discussion

dfarkas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
    • http://www.leicastoremiami.com
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #173 on: May 01, 2009, 12:31:59 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
And then again, maybe we will. Really, David, I think we're doing quite a good enough job of roiling up people's emotions without your assistance.    


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

Steve,

Not trying to roil people up. I was just trying to explain that putting in a larger LCD isn't as simple as just popping one in. There are under-the-hood and financial challenges associated. With two new products out the door in the last 6 months, the decision to go bigger/higher-res would have to have been made a year ago. I have no doubt, that based on user feedback and the fact that Phase One is known as a very customer-focused company, they will eventually move in this direction.

David
Logged
David Farkas
Leica Store Miami
www.leicastoremiami.com

Check out Red Dot Forum for Leica news, reviews, blogs and discussion

Boris_Epix

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #174 on: May 01, 2009, 01:26:24 pm »

Quote from: dfarkas
Steve,

Not trying to roil people up. I was just trying to explain that putting in a larger LCD isn't as simple as just popping one in. There are under-the-hood and financial challenges associated. With two new products out the door in the last 6 months, the decision to go bigger/higher-res would have to have been made a year ago. I have no doubt, that based on user feedback and the fact that Phase One is known as a very customer-focused company, they will eventually move in this direction.

David


Yeah, and Phase is going to sell the P65++ and P40++ (two "+") with marginally improved/brighter LCD for 8000$.

Sometimes I wish I could do stunts like that with my customers and get away with it. But then again... just delivering what customers want seems to be the better business practice with better future prospects.
Logged

JeffVo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #175 on: May 01, 2009, 02:09:05 pm »

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I just checked with my dealer and the "upgrade" price from P30+ to P40+ is...... are you ready? ....$14990.   hmmmm.
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #176 on: May 01, 2009, 02:15:38 pm »

Quote from: JeffVo
Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I just checked with my dealer and the "upgrade" price from P30+ to P40+ is...... are you ready? ....$14990.   hmmmm.


So that means the trade in value of a PeeThirtyPlus is now $500?

Sounds like a good deal.


Remember

Battle Of The Medium Format Wars is brought to you by
JUST STICKER IT a cost effective new way to upgrade your
digital back without having to remortgage your home.
Comes in 12 new designs, Phase P95+, Hasselblad H4dIII60, LeafAFI4-v2-75 and Sinar Espresso 31.



B
Logged

tho_mas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1799
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #177 on: May 01, 2009, 02:29:42 pm »

Quote from: JeffVo
$14990
     
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4169
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #178 on: May 01, 2009, 02:33:15 pm »

*deleted*
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 03:03:40 pm by dougpetersonci »
Logged

erick.boileau

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 468
    • http://
New PhaseOne - P40+
« Reply #179 on: May 01, 2009, 03:21:06 pm »

Quote from: dfarkas
There are small differences like max exposure time
David
small ? with Dalsa in winter at 6 PM you must go to bed and stop shooting
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 12   Go Up