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Author Topic: Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs  (Read 93763 times)

lisa_r

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2008, 01:56:49 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
I know the digital equipment makers (that is a new term I now use for camera companies, since photographers are now called end users) have to cover the middle ground and be sure that reds are reds, blues are blue, etc. etc., but we generally are not hired to shoot reality.  We're hired to shoot a beautiful interpretation of reality.

So my take on this is if I had to buy another digital camera, I'd just buy used because in a commercial setting with 10,000 watts of strobes, the P25+ will pretty much do what a p45+ will do or for that matter any other brand.  After they are all using the same sensors for the same two companies.

If I'm wrong on this please show me the examples, because if there is a camera out there that really will change my work for the better, I'm willing to invest.

BC

Did you look at the link I posted to my friend frej''s work? Look through his site.
http://frejhedenberg.com/
I don't know about you, but I think those images look like they could be film, digital, polaroid, who knows what. But they are all one camera, one chip. And he doesn't spend his entire life in front of the computer getting those looks either.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 02:05:13 pm by lisa_r »
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gwhitf

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2008, 02:06:12 pm »

Quote from: lisa_r
Lots of it looks really good. Still, when you know someone was shooting with a 40mp Phase but it looks like Sarah Moon did it...it's interesting is all I'm saying.

Regarding Master Cooter's link, the telltale difference between digital and film are the highlights. When you see that giant HMI blasting in from the rear, and there's no grain in those highlights, it makes it awfully tough to create fake grain/noise to match film.

A friend turned me onto that Alien Skin Exposure, but I've never been able to make it work very well. All the presets are WAY too intense; nothing very subtle at all. You can tell a "old" photographer tried to do that software, due to the way the Presets are described. Oddly, there's not a "Sarah Moon" preset in the bunch, or even a "tripod that's been kicked".

Fried highlights just scare me in digital.

Obviously, there is a gigantic segment of the marketplace that loves digital, and it certainly makes the job easier. This is the straight-ahead, missionary-position segment of the market. But you venture into some of the more creative areas, in fashion and editorial, and I'd bet you'd be surprised how many people are still shooting film, (and loving the grain).
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pss

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« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2008, 02:36:23 pm »

i am not bashing anyone....really....but isn't this thread about prices for sinar cameras/backs?

we are on page 5 and we still don't have an answer to the question: WHAT ARE THE PRICES IN THE US?

it might be a small market and the economy might not be so hot but i still think this could be of interest to some people.....
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Gigi

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« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2008, 02:40:40 pm »

Quote from: pss
we are on page 5 and we still don't have an answer to the question: WHAT ARE THE PRICES IN THE US?

it might be a small market and the economy might not be so hot but i still think this could be of interest to some people.....

you are right!

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Geoff

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« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2008, 02:46:57 pm »

Quote from: carstenw
While I don't disagree with your statement, it is not a useful basis for extrapolation. What would be far more informative is how many up-and-coming great photographers will use film versus digital. This group of photographers have no vested interest in film, no hard-to-kill habits, or general prejudices, in either direction. They will simply use what they prefer, and walk their own path.

Any number of existing great photographers use film because it is what they know, not because it is necessarily even better for their purposes. The type of mind which does excellent work with chemicals and the darkroom is not necessarily the same type of mind which can do great work on a computer, and vice versa. Some can make the jump, some not, although the majority of photographers will be somewhere in the middle, with a solid group who can do film better than digital, regardless of the potential of each medium. Some who can make the jump choose not to, some choose to do it.

I think that the transition from film to digital will coincide with a generational transition of "chemically minded" photographers to those more "computationally minded", with a few being able to straddle the gap. It is IMO simply a question of time passing, and the old greats retiring, before the above statement is false, even though nothing will change about the background facts of chemistry vs. digital.

I really don't agree. Are you saying that the older minds are using film because it's all they know, and they are not computer literate? I think they are more clever than you give them credit. The big problem with digital is it's difficult to get the end result to look unique with a bit of mojo and atmosphere. If you're not careful it can look like everybody else's work.

With film it's easier, just choose the equipment and film stock to give you the result you require. As everybody gets excited about the latest sharpest expensive lens from Leica/Schneider/Zeiss or whoever I'm just buying older lenses, real cheap they are too.

Those John Hurt portraits from Phil Poynter are just great, I'd be interested to know if they are film.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 02:48:07 pm by Streetshooter »
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Carsten W

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« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2008, 03:12:32 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
I really don't agree. Are you saying that the older minds are using film because it's all they know, and they are not computer literate? I think they are more clever than you give them credit. The big problem with digital is it's difficult to get the end result to look unique with a bit of mojo and atmosphere. If you're not careful it can look like everybody else's work.

No, I am saying that *some* of them use film, because that is what they know. *Some* are making the transition, *some* are capable of doing so, but choose not to. *Some* would never be able to do as well with digital as with film.

There is also the category with those who know how to do film, have learned how to do digital, but are grumpy all the way. That would be big cooter

I am saying that those who already know film are generally biased. They may not be unfair, but they knew and loved the one before the other came and it is almost impossible to look at the situation with a virgin mind under those circumstances. Digital will really come into its own when the new generations don't know film or digital, are presented with both, and make their choice. Then we will truly know which medium has a stronger following, due to its own virtues.

By the way, I didn't mention this in the first post, but aside from the fact that some pros want film looks in the digital workflow, from the manufacturer side they have to look at the business case for doing so. Generally, people want it, but if they are already paying X-thousand Dollars for their back, they probably won't pay more for such a solution. They will want it included, due to the already high price. This almost certainly makes it non-viable. However, as an after-market solution from companies like (or better than) Adobe, it could easily make sense. Then there will be no free lunch, however.

Quote
With film it's easier, just choose the equipment and film stock to give you the result you require. As everybody gets excited about the latest sharpest expensive lens from Leica/Schneider/Zeiss or whoever I'm just buying older lenses, real cheap they are too.

The number of films X the number of equipment choices is not likely to give you a larger number of possibilities than all the digital tools which are now available.

I think it is too easy to dismiss digital and say that film is great. However, digital has a very, very large number of advantages which it is all too easy to forget, and it is impossible to screw the clock back. Digital happened, all that is left for you to do is to find a new spot to stand.

But this discussion is sooooooooooooooo old. The only reason it keeps coming back is that film lovers keep complain that film is better than digital. To them I say, don't complain, use it.

Quote
Those John Hurt portraits from Phil Poynter are just great, I'd be interested to know if they are film.

You mean you can't tell!?!? (I am not trying to be an ass, just making a point here.)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:16:21 pm by carstenw »
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #86 on: October 20, 2008, 03:26:45 pm »

Well it sure looks like film to me.....

I have to say I love digital too for certain things. Just as I love film for certain things. Each has it's own strengths, but I just don't wear blinkers and think digital is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's just another tool.

Anyway, where are the Sinar prices for the USA ?
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Carsten W

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« Reply #87 on: October 20, 2008, 03:55:23 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
Well it sure looks like film to me.....

I have to say I love digital too for certain things. Just as I love film for certain things. Each has it's own strengths, but I just don't wear blinkers and think digital is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's just another tool.

For the record, I don't think digital is the greatest thing since sliced bread either, but neither is film. Used right, both can give stunning results and both have strengths.

I do think that there is digital and then there is digital. I remember when I finally got my anxiously anticipated Canon EOS 5D, which was going to answer all my prayers and give me the quality I craved: my initial reaction was to send a concerned letter to the shop I bought it from and point out that it didn't seem to be able to focus properly, since the results were really soft. I since learned that this is just the Canon look. Oh well. Within a year I had sold it and bought an M8. The M8 is a troublesome camera with some deep limitations, but I love it, and I just couldn't deal with the soft look of the Canon files. Why the hell should I have to wrestle with USM and other ways of compensating for the inherent softness of the file?

Whatever you might say about the reliability and convenience of MF digital, the files are head and shoulders above Canon files, out of the box. I can understand that big cooter is so grumpy since he has to use them all the time
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John_Black

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« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2008, 04:05:52 pm »

Quote from: pss
i am not bashing anyone....really....but isn't this thread about prices for sinar cameras/backs?

we are on page 5 and we still don't have an answer to the question: WHAT ARE THE PRICES IN THE US?

it might be a small market and the economy might not be so hot but i still think this could be of interest to some people.....

Thank you!  I'd like to see the official US price on the 54LV which is what I asked about on page 3.  It's now close of business on Monday and no response from Sinarbron (in this thread).  And no replies from the email I sent PPR over the weekend asking the same.
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paulmoorestudio

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« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2008, 04:10:25 pm »

You mean you can't tell!?!? (I am not trying to be an ass, just making a point here.)
[/quote]


I would not  presume it was film, despite it having that appearance.. without know the photographer and his history, and given
the state of retouching art which we find ourselves I would not be surprised to find out that it was digital.  what is not possible these days?
but I am not as knowledgeable as some here.

I was hoping this was where I could see some new adjusted prices posted by sinarbron imaging.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #90 on: October 20, 2008, 04:22:55 pm »

Quote from: paulmoorestudio
I was hoping this was where I could see some new adjusted prices posted by sinarbron imaging.

This is where we really see the advantages of the distributor/dealer network *cough*. Sinar apparently sells directly from the factory. How about a European vacation?
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PeterA

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« Reply #91 on: October 20, 2008, 06:51:42 pm »

Very amusing notions about film vs digital - 'look(s)' - a lot of stereotyping going on. As if film ever delivered a 'style'  that wasnt copied as soon as it came out....  

A short note on Sinar 'prices' ( and veryone else's for that matter)

It isnt as 'easy' for wholesalers and then dealers ( in many countries like Australia for example they are one and the same ) to put out prices that they are then compelled to sign off on an stick to fr a period of time. You have a little detail like wild currency flctuations to contend with. For example the Euro/AUD exchange rate has blown out to a high of 1.9X in the last 2 months - the previous trading band was 1.55-1.65X. You have a lot of issues going on in ariving at a 'price'. I dont think people should hold their breath waiting for one simple price based on the day to day fluctuations of currency cross rates of teh Euro. As someone explained in another thread, the ordering/manufacturing/selling cycles are all interlinked.

the  manufacturers haev an aggravated  difficulty by being forced to bringi out new versions of their backs on an 18 month cycle - which is linked to the depreciaion of cycle that various taxataion regimes put out. Everyone wants these small boutique manufacturing concerns to match the volume box selling marketing strategies with bells on so well mastered by the Japanese and their stable Yen - which is based on their dead economy.

I look forward to Sinar's Australian prices being delivered later this week - the product line up from this company including backs/camera type lineups from View to technical to Hy6 and lenses is simply outstanding and recent pricing adjustments combined with improved hardware architecture have made me consider their backs and total system intergrationa and flexibility as a realistic option for the first time. If I dont like the dealer  prices - maybe a nice holiday to Swirtzerland and a visit to the factory is called for - at least I save 10% on GST/VAT straight away. ..

Happy to give an economy ticket for two worth of margin to the local guys - but draw the line at 2 first class tickets.  

Cheers
Pete
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thsinar

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« Reply #92 on: October 20, 2008, 08:29:18 pm »

I actually have only 2 things to say:

- either you do apologize for your "sad" insult.

or


- Michael: if I do not get an apology in due form and retraction of words which have nothing to do in a forum, I wish this member to be banned from this forum.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Sean Reginald Knight
It seems that you're getting bashed quite a lot. I don't see it happening 'together with other MF players', partly because other MF players don't present 'information' the way you do.

It is by no means a crime as you said, but I certainly question your integrity due to the huge discrepancy.

Aw-shucks, Thierry got his feelings hurt again. Maybe a love-in with the katoeys of Patpong will help you to get over it.

All the very best to your marketing career.

Shug
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 08:29:59 pm by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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« Reply #93 on: October 20, 2008, 08:36:28 pm »

Exactly!

I have never said that my feelings are hurt, and It will actually go a long way until someone can hurt my feelings.

But yes, it's tiring to answer all and everytime the same posts, with the same complains and the same insults from certain people around in this forum.
I feel a complete lack of basic education and respect, and this is saddening rather than hurting feelings.

Thanks,
Thierry

Quote from: foto-z
I don't think Thierry is talking about hurt feelings, but the frustration at having to respond to the same (mostly false) criticisms over and over and over again. I think he does so with patience and integrity, and many have expressed this same opinion in this forum. You're on your own.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 08:43:18 pm by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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« Reply #94 on: October 20, 2008, 08:59:21 pm »

and to put a final point to this sad chapter of this thread, below my official writing to Michael:

Thierry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michael,

I wish to express my disapproval and to officially complain about a LL member's post and words:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....28717&st=60

Post NĀ°67, from member "Sean Reginald Knight"

It is not the first time that this members throws insults at me, but this time it is going a bit too far and has sexual connotations which cannot be accepted in a public forum.

I therefore have to ask for either:

1. a public apology from this member, and a retraction for ALL of his words and suggestions,

or

2. if full apology and retraction is not made in due time, I am asking for this member to be banned from this forum.

Thanks for understanding my position and best regards,
Thierry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 09:01:01 pm by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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shutay

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2008, 10:59:00 pm »

Quote from: thsinar
FYI:

Sinar has reduced the recommended enduser price of the following Sinarbacks and Sinar Hy6 Camera Systems:

A. Sinarbacks eMotion & eVolution

1. Sinarback eMotion 54 LV (22 MPx)

New Price Euro 6'037.- (old Euro 8'524.-)

-------8<------- snipped!

Thierry

Er... getting back on the topic, I think that this is a really excelent price, especially for someone looking to get into medium format digital, there are more and better choices now than ever before, but that's the way it works with all products though. Too bad I'm not in a position to upgrade right now!

I remember when I bought my Apple Macintosh Powerbook 1400c/133 - I remember paying GBP 3,200 for it, including an uprade to 64MB RAM, and then, just 2 weeks later, Apple discontinued it and the Powerbook 2400 and 3400 were in the shops. The sales people at the shop never even hinted that new models were on the way - they were almost twice as fast, and were priced starting at GBP 1,700 only! So, bad luck for me, but it still served me well. To single out any one company for doing this is silly because they all do it, and those who had benefited from the price drop would be celebrating because they got such a good deal. Those who bought just before would be crying foul, but if you were in charge of that company, I think you would have done the same. So? Just focus on taking great pictures with your tools.

Thierry, if I understand correctly, there are no Sinar distributors in Malaysia?
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EricWHiss

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« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2008, 11:09:49 pm »

Quote from: gregkingsbi
Dear All,
It appears there is an error in our Marketing Bulletin.  I will check into it on Monday.  Sorry for any confusion.  I will post the correct pricing at that time.
Sincerely,
Greg King
Sinar Bron Imaging


Greg,
Looking forward to hearing about the new pricing...

Eric Hiss

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thsinar

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« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2008, 02:04:58 am »

Quote from: shutay
Er... getting back on the topic, I think that this is a really excelent price, especially for someone looking to get into medium format digital, ....
Yes, I would like it as well, to return to the topic of this tread, rather than reading insults leading nowhere.


Quote from: shutay
Thierry, if I understand correctly, there are no Sinar distributors in Malaysia?
There is a Sinar distributor, since last week:

Mr. Ket Chong Lai (KC)
L12A-1-1, Palm Square Jaya One,
72A, Jalan Universiti,
462000 Petaling Jaya
Selangor
 
E-mail: ketchong@streamyx.com
 
Mobil No: +60122837768

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 02:05:25 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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bcooter

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« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2008, 02:23:31 am »

Quote from: thsinar
Yes, I would like it as well,



Thierry


Thierry,

Getting back to the original topic.  Is the new 65 or 31mpx camera not included in these prices and will it receive the same reduction in price?

Also since a lot of these products you listed are the 22mpx and 33mpx backs and given that the reduced pricing has a time stamp, are these products going to be continued in the Sinar lineup, especially since Sinar has a new arrangement with Leaf, or are these products going to be discontinued?

Now one last questions and not just U.S., but world centric.  When will the world wide prices be published?

Also can you publish Sinar's U.S. distributors contact information?

BC
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thsinar

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« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2008, 02:34:40 am »

Dear BC,

Quote from: bcooter
Thierry,

Getting back to the original topic.  Is the new 65 or 31mpx camera not included in these prices and will it receive the same reduction in price?
I have published already the prices for the Sinar Hy6 65, and for the Sinarback eSprit 65, here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27940

They are not changing, since published recently,  on September 15th.

Quote from: bcooter
Also since a lot of these products you listed are the 22mpx and 33mpx backs and given that the reduced pricing has a time stamp, are these products going to be continued in the Sinar lineup, especially since Sinar has a new arrangement with Leaf, or are these products going to be discontinued?
There are no plans yet to discontinue these Sinarbacks.

Quote from: bcooter
Now one last questions and not just U.S., but world centric.  When will the world wide prices be published?
I have already published our "Worldwide Recommended Prices". They are sent worldwide, to ALL distributors.

Quote from: bcooter
Also can you publish Sinar's U.S. distributors contact information?
Here:

Sinar Bron Imaging
17 Progress Street
Edison, N.J. 08820

Telefon: (+1) 908 754 58 00
Fax: (+1) 908 754 58 07
E-Mail: info@sinarbron.com
Webseite: www.sinarbron.com

Best regards,
Thierry
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