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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #2120 on: June 18, 2010, 04:24:50 pm »

My personal favs from a workshop I taught in the Chace hotel on June 16th.

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AndreNapier

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« Reply #2121 on: June 21, 2010, 01:00:19 am »

Hi Guys,
After many years of shooting MFD I finally freed myself of all the baggage and sold both of my AFI7 and Rz equipment. I feel so free.
I invested myself with D3 and D3X Nikon primes and the best of Leica glass. I have thought about the move for about a year. Same way like with quitting smoking - I felt that my time has come.
Here a sample from the first day of my new shooting:
Location: our new studio Sauna
D3/85mm at 2.0
Shot with one 1000W Tungsten light bounced of softbox face. ( and that is funny )
Andre

http://AndreNapierStudio.com
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pixjohn

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« Reply #2122 on: June 21, 2010, 04:46:24 am »

Why do you feel so free? What was it about the MFD you disliked? I am considering if I want to continue with MFD myself.  Do I buy a new back? or run?
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Rob C

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« Reply #2123 on: June 21, 2010, 06:33:49 am »

Quote from: AndreNapier
Hi Guys,
After many years of shooting MFD I finally freed myself of all the baggage and sold both of my AFI7 and Rz equipment. I feel so free.
I invested myself with D3 and D3X Nikon primes and the best of Leica glass. I have thought about the move for about a year. Same way like with quitting smoking - I felt that my time has come.
Here a sample from the first day of my new shooting:
Location: our new studio Sauna
D3/85mm at 2.0
Shot with one 1000W Tungsten light bounced of softbox face. ( and that is funny )
Andre

http://AndreNapierStudio.com




Beautiful shot - twice as lucky with your model!

Rob C

fredjeang

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« Reply #2124 on: June 21, 2010, 09:42:16 am »

Quote from: pixjohn
Why do you feel so free? What was it about the MFD you disliked? I am considering if I want to continue with MFD myself.  Do I buy a new back? or run?
I can understand André

I love MFs, but at the same time something is "painfull" for certain type of photography.

I draw this quick sketch about what I would like MF brands to devellop FINALLY.
Instead of pointing towards tablets (don't get me wrong, tablets integration can be very usefull), they should IMO redesign their backs first.
If I have no complain to adress in terms of image quality and toughness, all the contrary happens in terms of usability.

I'm in favor of more option, like the I.pad, but it can not be the only way. First, if they could come (even talking about CCD) with a real good
lcd and a kind of reduced integrated software, they'll have something IMO.
More external devices should just be an option, not an obligation. I personally go mad when I have to deal with external
devices, cabled or not, objects that need to be carried and manipulated.
All that should be accessible and integrated IN CAMERA, please.

Ok, my sktech design is basic and looks like a WW2 german submarine, but anyway you got the idea:
[attachment=22715:mfback_wishes.jpg]

Ps: I took Phase as I could have used Hassy, they are all the same except Leaf that has slightly better lcd.

A reduced Capture or Phocus version should be available in the back.
Resolution should be 1 or 2MP at least and size of lcd should be 5 inches minimum.

At the prices they sell them, and considering the world economy situation, those are minimum feature the customer should get.

Then, no surprise if more and more are going to go FF dslr.
IMO.

Best IQ for an amount of hassles and cost that has to be reconsidered. MF designers and ingeeners will have to be creative in the next years.
not only with the I.pad...
That will be in the benefit of everyone.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 09:54:42 am by fredjeang »
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MarkoRepse

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« Reply #2125 on: June 21, 2010, 11:16:32 am »

I agree it is 'painful' to use. I use the RZ67 so its even worse than if I was using 645. Large, heavy, no autofocus, and the backs demand so much light people would laugh at you with any dslr. It is difficult and stubborn, but it forces me work and I like the results. So I can completely understand the part about being 'free' from Andre's post. I keep saying use what you like, so if that means moving to 35mm, by all means do so!

Heres one I like from yesterday's shot. RZ+Aptus. No photoshop.

[attachment=22716:mr_001336.jpg]
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BobDavid

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« Reply #2126 on: June 21, 2010, 11:45:57 am »

Quote from: BobDavid
Here's one I took of a friend that owns a tire store and teaches art classes there at night.


Shot with a Sony A850 and 24-70mm CZ. Much easier to set up than if I'd used my digital blad system. I printed this on a sheet of 17 X 22 rag paper. Tack-sharp and very pleasing tonality and color. Sure, it's not the same as if I'd shot it with my 39MP Blad, but I don't think I'd have gotten the shot with it either.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 11:51:00 am by BobDavid »
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UlfKrentz

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« Reply #2127 on: June 21, 2010, 06:01:37 pm »

... I have thought about the move for about a year. Same way like with quitting smoking - I felt that my time has come...

It´s been a hard time when I quitted smoking about ten years ago ;-)
I just ordered a new Leaf back today. I really enjoy working MF.

Cheers, Ulf



paulhu

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« Reply #2128 on: June 21, 2010, 06:05:53 pm »

Quote from: AndreNapier
Hi Guys,
After many years of shooting MFD I finally freed myself of all the baggage and sold both of my AFI7 and Rz equipment. I feel so free.
I invested myself with D3 and D3X Nikon primes and the best of Leica glass. I have thought about the move for about a year. Same way like with quitting smoking - I felt that my time has come.
Here a sample from the first day of my new shooting:
Location: our new studio Sauna
D3/85mm at 2.0
Shot with one 1000W Tungsten light bounced of softbox face. ( and that is funny )
Andre

http://AndreNapierStudio.com


WOW!! Fantastic image.  Are they twins...I mean the models.  No one could tell what you shot with, as long as the image is what the client wants.  My clients could care less if I use a P & S camera, 35mm, or medium format, as long as I deliver the concept and the quality image they are looking for.  No one has yet asked me what I use to create those images.  I am considering either the D3s or D3X.
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fredjeang

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« Reply #2129 on: June 21, 2010, 06:52:07 pm »

Quote from: UlfKrentz
... I have thought about the move for about a year. Same way like with quitting smoking - I felt that my time has come...

It´s been a hard time when I quitted smoking about ten years ago ;-)
I just ordered a new Leaf back today. I really enjoy working MF.

Cheers, Ulf
Ulf,
I have discovered your portfolio very recently and I really enjoyed it.
Also very good pros with you, specially the make-up, the hair styling and retouching.
A pleasure.

Cheers.
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AndreNapier

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« Reply #2130 on: June 21, 2010, 07:46:42 pm »

Yes, they are twins. Very sweet twins.

Well I have been shooting MFD for as long as it exists. I went through LightPhase 6mp with filter to upgrade to LightPhase without filter, later upgraded to H10, H20. With H25 I felt I had everything I ever needed, than came P25 and a Rollei P20 and than P45. In the mean time I experimented with Sinar and then moved to Leaf 75 later 75s, and ended the journey with two AFI7.
On every photoshoot I carried with me hundreds of pounds of lighting gear, generators, Matthews stands and cranks,  all in the name of image quality. However recently I noticed that my work is becoming very stale when everybody else is going very dynamic and nobody really cares about quality, focus etc and the only keywords requested is mood and motion.
I am not preaching to anybody that my way is THE WAY. I am just very much noticing that the 25 year old AD's do not want to wait for me to connect firewire cable and amaze them with the quality of the file at 100%.
They do not want to understand that after shooting several images I have to wait for them forever to transfer to computer. They do not understand how unstable the software or the firewire connection is.
The new models do not want to freeze for me to focus, they cry when I try to use 2.5K HMI's instead of 300W tungsten shooting ( not modeling ) light.
And besides it is so nice to come pick up camera with battery good for few thousand images and just shoot in 3 sec. That is why I feel free.
Andre

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fredjeang

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« Reply #2131 on: June 21, 2010, 08:09:25 pm »

Quote from: AndreNapier
Yes, they are twins. Very sweet twins.

Well I have been shooting MFD for as long as it exists. I went through LightPhase 6mp with filter to upgrade to LightPhase without filter, later upgraded to H10, H20. With H25 I felt I had everything I ever needed, than came P25 and a Rollei P20 and than P45. In the mean time I experimented with Sinar and then moved to Leaf 75 later 75s, and ended the journey with two AFI7.
On every photoshoot I carried with me hundreds of pounds of lighting gear, generators, Matthews stands and cranks,  all in the name of image quality. However recently I noticed that my work is becoming very stale when everybody else is going very dynamic and nobody really cares about quality, focus etc and the only keywords requested is mood and motion.
I am not preaching to anybody that my way is THE WAY. I am just very much noticing that the 25 year old AD's do not want to wait for me to connect firewire cable and amaze them with the quality of the file at 100%.
They do not want to understand that after shooting several images I have to wait for them forever to transfer to computer. They do not understand how unstable the software or the firewire connection is.
The new models do not want to freeze for me to focus, they cry when I try to use 2.5K HMI's instead of 300W tungsten shooting ( not modeling ) light.
And besides it is so nice to come pick up camera with battery good for few thousand images and just shoot in 3 sec. That is why I feel free.
Andre
The world is changing, soorry, has changed. And those changes, the MF manufacturers will have to respond soon or later. I think their biggest issue now is that these designs have been thought for another time, but now people want fast and hassle free devices, and integrated.
This speed can be of course bad, and thinking ged rid off bondage we get chained in the rush and the overspeed...but the time of slowness, unstability, complexity, extremely costs etc.. is about to end and I'm not sure they want to see it.
In the name of IQ we can not accept anything, and if they want to attract the next generations to buy their products, they will have to change something.
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pixjohn

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« Reply #2132 on: June 21, 2010, 11:24:47 pm »

I shoot two, sometime three different styles of work.

1) Architorture, MFD works for my style of shooting. DSLR = faster maybe less lighting more post to fix lens issues.


2) People photography , I really want to get back into shooting more people.



My main problem is old school, wanting the best quality. The sad part,  clients don't seem to care anymore. I have gone through every issue with my aptus 75 and need to make my mind up soon. I was just about ready to get a H4-50 but really want to check out the H4-60 because of the dalsa chip. I do have a D700 that i like to shoot small projects with but its not even in the same league as the Aptus back.



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Frank Doorhof

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« Reply #2133 on: June 22, 2010, 02:45:59 am »

I get what you feel Andre, everytime I shoot with my 5DMKII I'm happy with the speed but when I look at the images I'm always underwhelmed compared to the AptusII7, there simply is less "dynamic range", smoothness and depth to the images.

I keep upgrading my DSLR and everytime I'm stunned with the new options and I love to use the DSLR, however for my modelwork it simply doesn't do it the way I want.
I have to add that I use the RZ mainly for portrait and static work and the 645AFD/III outside and for the more dynamic stuff, although the focus is slower than the 5DMKII it has the same move around feel and I love the viewfinder.

The connection to the laptop is stable for me on firewire.

I've only been shooting MF for a few years now, coming from the 5D, and maybe one day the difference is so small I switch back, but I guess that MF will also make improvements.
Going from the Aptus22 to the AptusII7 also gave me a jump in quality.
For me the main problem is still ISO, I find everything above ISO200 an area where I would rather grab the 5DMKII.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 02:48:38 am by Frank Doorhof »
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fredjeang

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« Reply #2134 on: June 22, 2010, 04:04:32 am »

I think that today there is a sort of chalenge.

I don't think clients do not care any more about quality, but more that others parameters are simply more important, and in the end we don't have to forget that we, photographers,
are much more concern about details that we perceive but those are by far less important if not the final overall image for the client.

When we go to an exhibition, do we really care about all these details? I don't think so, at least what first moves me is the overall result, regardless if it has been taken
with a megaback or a point and shoot.

But these differences, if real and we can perceive them, are not enormous enough now that the client will ask us to shoot MF or nothing else.

What really amazes me in 2010, is that the MF brands have not been able to developp so far a more friendly usable system. And honestly, this painfull usability is used
to feel a sort of chalenge, a little bit like if we had to domine the wild horse.

The argument often used to justify these hassles is that MF forces to think. But I'm not sure that the reason why stands in its poor usability.

In other words, I'm convinced that we could have today with the current technology, a much friendly user experience being at the same time demanding in terms of skills.

My feeling is that the MF manufacturers do not want to understand that some changes are necesary now and they keep thinking in old designs and needs.

But when they will need to attract the new generation that is not prepared to handle with these kind of hassles, image quality will not be a strong enough argument,
because you can be sure that the big 35mm boys will do the homework very well and the gap will be reduced.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the 35mm files. But I don't like either many MF usability.

But I'm sure, and that is why I feel a little bit "angry", that most of the MF issues could be resolved without reinventing the wheel, they just are not enough interested today.
But this is IMO, a dangerous game, specially when the youngest photographers will enter the market.

To me, the IQ at higher isos is not what I'm complaining about, because we have dslr for that needs and each system has its strengh, but what I'm not convinced about is within
the MF system in itself.

Yes I love like you do, the DR, the smoothness, the tones, the sort of 3D etc...but does it have to be necessary in contradiction with usability?

I don't think so IMO.

But I'm way out of thread now, so I stop there.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 04:55:26 am by fredjeang »
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Rob C

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« Reply #2135 on: June 22, 2010, 04:09:53 am »

Quote from: AndreNapier
Yes, they are twins. Very sweet twins.

1.  The new models do not want to freeze for me to focus, they cry when I try to use 2.5K HMI's instead of 300W tungsten shooting ( not modeling ) light.

2.  And besides it is so nice to come pick up camera with battery good for few thousand images and just shoot in 3 sec. That is why I feel free.
Andre



1.   The new ones will rapidly be the old ones; they should be getting paid to do what you want them to do.

2.   Just like film, then, but not quite as fast...

;-)

Rob C

UlfKrentz

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« Reply #2136 on: June 22, 2010, 04:21:01 am »

Quote from: fredjeang
Ulf,
I have discovered your portfolio very recently and I really enjoyed it.
Also very good pros with you, specially the make-up, the hair styling and retouching.
A pleasure.

Cheers.

Thank you, Fred. Btw all that work is done with Leaf MFDB. I don´t blame anyone for going another way and I can understand Andre´s point of view, it´s just not the way we want to work, like Frank stated we don´t have any firewire issues and the stuff is also working on the beach and in the desert without any problems. But PLEASE don´t make this a DSLR vs MF thread! We should share our work here, so if anybody else likes to see what we are doing take a look at

www.shoots.de

Cheers, Ulf

feppe

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« Reply #2137 on: June 22, 2010, 01:09:41 pm »

Quote from: pixjohn
I shoot two, sometime three different styles of work.

1) Architorture, MFD works for my style of shooting. DSLR = faster maybe less lighting more post to fix lens issues.

2) People photography , I really want to get back into shooting more people.

It's quite clear which one you prefer...

Rob C

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« Reply #2138 on: June 22, 2010, 02:17:21 pm »

Quote from: UlfKrentz
Thank you, Fred. Btw all that work is done with Leaf MFDB. I don´t blame anyone for going another way and I can understand Andre´s point of view, it´s just not the way we want to work, like Frank stated we don´t have any firewire issues and the stuff is also working on the beach and in the desert without any problems. But PLEASE don´t make this a DSLR vs MF thread! We should share our work here, so if anybody else likes to see what we are doing take a look at

www.shoots.de

Cheers, Ulf




That's a very impressive site you have; wonderful productions in all the genres.

Also, and no criticism here - your stuff is beautiful - it underscores some of the reasons why I imagine Andre has moved across to smaller formats. There is just something that bigger cameras do that stops the work looking really free; even with wind machines it looks studied. The closest I came to the problem when I did fashion was to swap between 35mm and 6x6, depending on job, and even then, with the less complicated life that 6x6 seems to give over MFD, I still found the larger format a drag on the work flow and on myself. I have nothing of my fashion life left to show, so there's no point in looking for it in my site; however, I also think that MFD makes an even greater distinction between generations of photographers than might at first be obvious. That difference, I think, lies in the 'look' of the pictures.

There is a divide between what my generation expected from 6x6 and what yours gets from MFD. Your shots look far more as if they had been shot on LF cameras, which flies right in the face of what fashion used to be about in the 60s and 70s. Sure, Linea Italiana used to print great photography that was probably shot on 4x5 amongst other things, but even Vogue, Harpers et al used to go for more realistic-looking people, or should that be results?

And that's the nub of the difference, to my mind: I can't make the association between reality and the obvious lack of it in almost all fashion photography of today; once, you understood and accepted makeup for what it was - today, you don't really think you are looking at makeup, you think you are looking at plastic.

As I said when I came in, this is no attack. It is just how I see the changes and directions of today's styles from an older generation's perspective.

It's all so very different. I hesitate to say better, just different.

Rob C

AndreNapier

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« Reply #2139 on: June 22, 2010, 02:36:59 pm »

Quote from: UlfKrentz
Thank you, Fred. Btw all that work is done with Leaf MFDB. I don´t blame anyone for going another way and I can understand Andre´s point of view, it´s just not the way we want to work, like Frank stated we don´t have any firewire issues and the stuff is also working on the beach and in the desert without any problems. But PLEASE don´t make this a DSLR vs MF thread! We should share our work here, so if anybody else likes to see what we are doing take a look at

www.shoots.de

Cheers, Ulf

Ulf,
Your work is really nice. Beautifully executed. MFD shines in your hands.
My thing is that I have seen Mazucco shooting with P&S camera  and DSLR for Guess and I want to be him when I grow up. ( LOL )
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