Early G10 thoughts

[Wayne Fox]

I've been playing with a G10 for a couple of days.  Thought I'd post a few observations as comparison to my G9.

It is very slightly longer than the G9, and a little taller.  The enlarged grip feels pretty comfortable, not a biggie, but I do like how it feels in my hand.  The Lens barrel is slightly larger to accommodate then new wider angle lens.  At the widest setting on each, the G10 lens doesn't protrude quite as far, but at full telephoto the extension distance is nearly identical.

Battery is new ... very square and appears a little larger. Bummer for those that use multiple batteries. I'm not sure the increased size is enough to offer any significant improvement in battery life.

The mode dial is now slightly smaller but much taller. Since the slope up to hot shoe is more than the G9, despite being taller it still doesn't extend higher than the hot shoe.  Actually easier to use.  The ISO dial is now a secondary dial around the base of this dial, quite convenient.  The real advantage of this is the previous iSO dial is now a manual exposure compensation dial.  This dial is recessed into the top a little so it won't get move accidently, but can easily be moved when wanted.  This feature is extremely useful when trying to fine tune exposures, for example using ETTR.  Simply adjust the exposure compensation dial until the histogram almost clips.  I tried this for several exposures ... it worked very well.

Nothing else seems much different when using the camera than the G9.  Maybe a couple of  slight menu item changes.

Image quality seems very good.  I do like the slightly wider angle of view.  The camera ships with DPP 3.5 which supports the G10 RAW files.  This is a switch from the G9.  Interestingly enough, they didn't bother adding G9 support when they built the G10 support into the software.  No LR support yet, so my comparisons so far have been G9 files processed in LR vs. G10 files processed in DPP.

Way to soon to draw any major conclusions, but IQ of the G10 is very good, and a slight improvement on the G9.  (could be wishful thinking ... excuse to feel like it was worth buying.)  

I've attached a quick image,  along with a 100% section ... detail and sharpness seems good.  Shot at 28mm equivalent, f/5.0, 1/500th, ISO 100, handheld.  No sharpening during post processing on either.

Headed to CA for a week, will be playing around with this on the golf course.  I may try to do some side by sides to see if noise is improved.

[attachment=8727:G10Sampl...ullFrame.jpg][attachment=8728:G10Sample_1to1.jpg]

[soboyle]

Is there any improvement in the optical viewfinder framing?
Any improvement in low light shooting, ie any less noise, or is this about the same as G9?

[Wayne Fox]

Is there any improvement in the optical viewfinder framing?
Any improvement in low light shooting, ie any less noise, or is this about the same as G9?

The optical viewfinder is pretty much the same, maybe very slightly better.  It still seems to only show about 80% of the FoV when at wide angle.

As far as noise, I believe there is an improvement.  It's still noisy at high ISO's but the noise is appears "finer" .. more like grain, and less blotchy.

I ran a quick test and made a web page with some noise comparisons between the 2, for those interested.

http://web.me.com/waynefox/G9_10/

Personally I'm glad I upgraded ... lens is better, noise is better, and the manual exposure compensation is a nice feature I use on almost every capture.

[Jonathan H]

Nice house Wayne!

[Tim Gray]

I'm interested in noise performance vs the G9.  If it's pretty much the same, I'll keep the G9, if there's a noticeable improvement I'll go for the 10.  What's your take on noise?

[httivals]

How's the dynamic range of the G10?

[Wayne Fox]

I'm interested in noise performance vs the G9.  If it's pretty much the same, I'll keep the G9, if there's a noticeable improvement I'll go for the 10.  What's your take on noise?

Seems better to me.  Did you check out the images from the link?  What do you think?

How's the dynamic range of the G10?

Good question.  I'm not techie enough to "measure" it, but seems to be solid and as good as the G9.

[reissme]

I've been playing with a G10 for a couple of days.  Thought I'd post a few observations as comparison to my G9.

It is very slightly longer than the G9, and a little taller.  The enlarged grip feels pretty comfortable, not a biggie, but I do like how it feels in my hand.  The Lens barrel is slightly larger to accommodate then new wider angle lens.  At the widest setting on each, the G10 lens doesn't protrude quite as far, but at full telephoto the extension distance is nearly identical.

Battery is new ... very square and appears a little larger. Bummer for those that use multiple batteries. I'm not sure the increased size is enough to offer any significant improvement in battery life.

The mode dial is now slightly smaller but much taller. Since the slope up to hot shoe is more than the G9, despite being taller it still doesn't extend higher than the hot shoe.  Actually easier to use.  The ISO dial is now a secondary dial around the base of this dial, quite convenient.  The real advantage of this is the previous iSO dial is now a manual exposure compensation dial.  This dial is recessed into the top a little so it won't get move accidently, but can easily be moved when wanted.  This feature is extremely useful when trying to fine tune exposures, for example using ETTR.  Simply adjust the exposure compensation dial until the histogram almost clips.  I tried this for several exposures ... it worked very well.

Nothing else seems much different when using the camera than the G9.  Maybe a couple of  slight menu item changes.

Image quality seems very good.  I do like the slightly wider angle of view.  The camera ships with DPP 3.5 which supports the G10 RAW files.  This is a switch from the G9.  Interestingly enough, they didn't bother adding G9 support when they built the G10 support into the software.  No LR support yet, so my comparisons so far have been G9 files processed in LR vs. G10 files processed in DPP.

Way to soon to draw any major conclusions, but IQ of the G10 is very good, and a slight improvement on the G9.  (could be wishful thinking ... excuse to feel like it was worth buying.)  

I've attached a quick image,  along with a 100% section ... detail and sharpness seems good.  Shot at 28mm equivalent, f/5.0, 1/500th, ISO 100, handheld.  No sharpening during post processing on either.

Headed to CA for a week, will be playing around with this on the golf course.  I may try to do some side by sides to see if noise is improved.

[attachment=8727:G10Sampl...ullFrame.jpg][attachment=8728:G10Sample_1to1.jpg]

Hi Wayne.
Thank you for the very good comparison. I have the G9.
 From your images, I think that the IQ and sharpness is similar, but the noise is smoother or better in the G10, we will see it better when they will be processed in the same raw processor.
Is it possible (you have said "The Lens barrel is slightly larger" ) to attach the Canon wide converter to the G10? and get like 21mm (equivalent to 35mm FF)
Best regards and thanks
Menachem Reiss www.reiss.co.il

[Tim Gray]

Seems better to me.  Did you check out the images from the link?  What do you think?



Good question.  I'm not techie enough to "measure" it, but seems to be solid and as good as the G9.

Ahh, that link!  I'd missed your second post - yes, that's what I was curious about - I do see some improvement which is encouraging - ISO 200 now appears to be reasonably useable.  Maybe not a full stop improvement, but enough that the tipping point has tipped for me - but I will wait until it's supported by ACR.

Thanks for the workup.

[David Anderson]

Thanks for the samples Wayne.

I was going to get a G10 to take out when I couldn't be bothered lugging all my gear and might want a snap and I'm curious what the shutter lag is like ?

I've never been a fan of pocket cameras for that reason, though it's been a long time since I had a play with one so maybe they've changed.

Cheers.

[NigelC]

I look forward to Michael's comparison of the G10 with the Nikpn P6000. I would like to see those 2 also compared with the LX3.

I love the controls of the G10, but I'm attracted by the smaller size and the larger aperture of the LX3. Given there is no real depth of field issue with these tiny sensors. F2.0 is genuinely usable.

[Wayne Fox]

Thanks for the samples Wayne.

I was going to get a G10 to take out when I couldn't be bothered lugging all my gear and might want a snap and I'm curious what the shutter lag is like ?

Cheers.

No lag to speak of, push the release button down half way to lock in exposure and focus, the rest of the way instantly takes a picture.

Now if you press it all the way at once, it might lag, since it still focuses and digicams just don't focus very quickly.  

[David Anderson]

Thanks for that Wayne..

[jjj]

What about higher ISOs? As this is where little cameras tend to be truely awful.

[Christopher]

What about higher ISOs? As this is where little cameras tend to be truely awful.

Have you looked at the link ?

[jjj]

Have you looked at the link ?

Duh, completely missed that post when rereading thread.

[dkosiur]

The optical viewfinder is pretty much the same, maybe very slightly better.  It still seems to only show about 80% of the FoV when at wide angle.

As far as noise, I believe there is an improvement.  It's still noisy at high ISO's but the noise is appears "finer" .. more like grain, and less blotchy.

I ran a quick test and made a web page with some noise comparisons between the 2, for those interested.

http://web.me.com/waynefox/G9_10/

Personally I'm glad I upgraded ... lens is better, noise is better, and the manual exposure compensation is a nice feature I use on almost every capture.

I almost always used exposure compensation on my G9. What's different about it on the G10?

[Don Bloom]

I am on my second G9. Both have collected lots of debris inside the lens elements. My current has also gotten a large dust spot on the sensor. Does early perusal of the G10 indicate better sealing of the body and lens against dust?

[Wayne Fox]

I almost always used exposure compensation on my G9. What's different about it on the G10?

As mentioned by John, exposure compensation is a dedicated dial, where the ISO dial used to be. Coupled with the live histogram, it makes fine tuning exposures a breeze.

I also use exposure compensation most of the time, and this change alone may be worth the upgrade for me ( although there are several other things I like about the g10 over the g9).

I am on my second G9. Both have collected lots of debris inside the lens elements. My current has also gotten a large dust spot on the sensor. Does early perusal of the G10 indicate better sealing of the body and lens against dust?

From outward appearances I can't really see any indication that there are any build quality changes that might help this. That's not saying there isn't ... just nothing you can see.  Very similar in construction and design.

 I always thought point and shoot sensors were really well sealed against dust (it doesn't take a very big piece of dust to cause a problem with a sensor like this).  Have you complained to your dealer about your current one?

[Bob Geo]

Wayne,
Thanks for the early G10 info.  I've had mine about 3 weeks and am pretty impressed.  I'd accept a little more bulk & cost to have a bigger & more accurate optical viewfinder with shooting info displayed.  At least my old G2 had a center marker to use for AF targeting.

What about correcting CA in G10 raw files?  There's a pixel or 2 of fringing visible at the widest end of the lens and maybe a little at longer FL's.  The Windows version of DPP 3.5.0.0 has CA correction grayed out, along with the rest of the Lens aberration correction section of the NR/Lens/ALO tab.  Is it enabled for the G9 and Canon DSLRs?  I wonder if it will be enabled for G10 raw files in later DPP releases.  I'm used to Nikon's Capture NX where there's a simple checkbox for CA correction.

Bob

Oops, possible LumLand newbie mistake on my part -- this question may be better placed under:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=28859