MFD or Canon 5D MkII?

[Alex MacPherson]

I am on the fence. I have a Mamiya AFDII and was considering getting a MFD back.

I shoot fashion and beauty.

Am I better off:
A ) Shooting film and getting good quality scans
B ) Getting a MFD back like a +P21
C ) Getting a Canon 5D MKII



All that matters is the image quality. I can deal with everything else.

[RSPhoto]

I am on the fence. I have a Mamiya AFDII and was considering getting a MFD back.

I shoot fashion and beauty.

Am I better off:
A ) Shooting film and getting good quality scans
B ) Getting a MFD back like a +P21
C ) Getting a Canon 5D MKII



All that matters is the image quality. I can deal with everything else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you shoot fashion and beauty the content of your images and your talent are more important than pixel sharpness and big files. All the newest DSLR's allow you to fully concentrate on the subject with their speed and ease of use instead of having to deal with the shortcomings of todays Medium Format Cameras.

Having said that, there is definitely a difference in the quality of a MFDB file especially when it comes to dynamic range and the extend of retouching possibilities, but you would be hard pressed of seeing that difference in the final file

My experience has been, that with a DSLR you get the job done without hassle and you can spend that money on some HMI lights that give you a really different look.

I have been shooting for a few years with a Mamiya AFD II (horribly slow and old fashioned)
and a Mamiya RZ (excellent lenses but huge) with a Leaf Aptus 22 and a Canon 1Ds Mark II/III. Well, I ended up selling all my MF gear and believe me I don't miss it. Yes, the files are better, but no one except me could ever see the difference, even less my clients.

However, I recently tried out the AFI 6/7 and I love the whole package. I'm seriously considering
buying one, but do I need it? Definitely not!

So the decision is yours, but don't expect too much. If you can afford it, go for it, it's just a tool to make money, but if you are on a tight budget you will regret it.

So C) would be my answer.

RS

[BernardLanguillier]

I am on the fence. I have a Mamiya AFDII and was considering getting a MFD back.

I shoot fashion and beauty.

Am I better off:
A ) Shooting film and getting good quality scans
B ) Getting a MFD back like a +P21
C ) Getting a Canon 5D MKII



All that matters is the image quality. I can deal with everything else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would for sure wait until Nov 8th to see what Nikon has up its sleeves.

Other than that, have you considered the ZD back?

Cheers,
Bernard

[TMARK]

RSPhoto is correct.  If you need the file quality of an MFDB for a picky beauty client, there should be a budget for renting an MFDB.  Otherwise, if you want the MF look, shoot the film.  But for fashion and beauty, its a mental game.  The barriers are in your head, make sure the barrier is not in your hand in the form of a clutsy camera.

[jimgolden]

I'd hang out a bit and see what the 5d2 really looks like...there are already a bunch of decent used back deals to be had, and more to come.

[bryanyc]

Excellent answers all.

Would depend on how you work really and if medium format, and all that it entails, is something you benefit from.  I wouldn't mind it at all but I don't shoot fashion.

Seems like the 5D will be a wunderkind.

[Juanito]

Rent and test. See if it works for you. There's pro's and con's both ways but only you can make the call.

John

[Frank Doorhof]

it depends on the photographer and the situation.

If you want to play alot with DOF but still get sharp images : MF
If you want to capture 16 bits for great B&W and good gradiants : MF
If you want to capture fine detail without softness : MF
If you need high dynamic range : MF

Now:
If you need to shoot fast (3-4 fps) : DSLR
If you need high ISO : DSLR
If you have a limited budget : DSRL

I changed to medium format for the dynamic range, detail and 16 bits capture.
It's slower than with a DSLR but it never was too slow for me, the opposite is often true for people, MF forces them to think about their composition, and if you shoot with a WLF you will get a whole new experience due to the very large preview.

There was a time MF was really a step down from a DSLR, with cameras like the AFi and the Mamiya 645AFD/III I must say that time is over UNLESS you need 51 focus points (for fashion I don't think so), High ISO (that can be handy) or 3-4 fps.

For me I have solved it by shooting 99% with a leaf back on a 645AFD/III for outside, a RZ67ProII in the studio and a Canon 5D (will be replaced by the MKII) for when I need it.

[James R Russell]

Excellent answers all.

Would depend on how you work really and if medium format, and all that it entails, is something you benefit from.  I wouldn't mind it at all but I don't shoot fashion.

Seems like the 5D will be a wunderkind.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Medium format and a dslr like the 5d are just way different cameras, even discounting the video function of the 5d.

Different aspect ratios, different handling, lenses, speed and iso.

It's interesting to me that so much has been said about the 5d and the news from Hasselblad and I assume mostly because of pricing, but very little information about other medium format.

I would think there would be a lot of buzz from Michael's front page rumor that Sinar will get out of medium format altogether and essentially rebadge a Leaf.

I don't get it, but then again I'm not in the camera making selling business, I'm in the use cameras to make a living business.

Then again looking at the state of medium format it seems (to be polite) confusing.

Sinar will/won't make a digital back, though they are still showing thier new 31mpx back with dng and in camera jpegs (pity if this doesn't happen because in camera jpegs, a good lcd and a dng format would be a  really a needed first).  Also what's the deal with Sinar showing Brieze Lights when Bron has thier own parabolic fixtures?.  Is this another stragegic alliance?

Leaf has a new sensor, new lcd, new format, but no real concrete information on price or upgrades.  (at least any that I completly understand).

Phase has an extremly expensive new model that will go to high iso but drops to 15mpx.  That 15mpx part kind of throws me because for the added costs you can easily by a dslr alternative with more useable megapixels.  Now maybe it goes to 30mpx at 800 iso, or does something else unique, but you would think that message would be clear.

Hasselblad has new sensors, older sensors but has lowered all their prices to bargain basement, (at least in the medium format world).  The upside of the Hasselblad is their price message is clear and their lenses and most of their cameras are in place ready to buy.

Leica has a 31mpx camera but no real information about iso, speed, costs or exact delivery so in the world of digital until that hits the shelves it's all just an interesting ancedote.  (Can anyone say Pentax 645 digital, Contax D-1, or the Mamiya ZD).

It's somewhat confusing and if I was buying new today I really would have no idea which way I would go and since none of the new db's offer high iso at even medium mpx size I don't see anything that does something that is much different than what we already have.

What I don't understand is why the news at photokina is vague.  After all this is the world's biggest show and the makers have two years to plan for it.

You would think that on the day photokina opened everyone would have their newest cameras on the shelf, with a price tag and boxes of product ready to ship.

After all medium format seems to be a segment facing challanges and anything that's not exactly clear can't be good for sales.

Today I was in another production meeting with clients (the last few weeks I've been in more meetings than FED) and the only camera talk that got any attention is when I mentioned the video capabilities (and that LaForte video link) about the Canon 5D.  

That got a lot of attention.


JR

[James R Russell]

If you want to play alot with DOF but still get sharp images : MF
If you want to capture 16 bits for great B&W and good gradiants : MF
If you want to capture fine detail without softness : MF
If you need high dynamic range : MF

If you've shot the 1ds3 in a lot of lighting situations (especially continuous light and mixed sources)  next to a db I think you might modify some of those findings.  In fact the Canon hold highlights well and have less casting/banding on skin when working with hard direct light.

As far as dof.  Try a 85 1.2 and you will see dof falloff that nothing I've seen in modern medium format that gets close.

As far as dynamic range goes, well the Canons hold up very well, but then again that is why they make 12x rags and foam core.

If your working really large cost produciton I can promise you the last thing anyone is talking about is high dr, of oversharp images.   No client is looking for the model's dna and oversharp usually gets the reply of it looks too digital.

In regards to budget, Annie is working pretty much unlimited and she's working with a Canon, so the camera budget isn't a concern.

JR

[TMARK]

If your working really large cost produciton I can promise you the last thing anyone is talking about is high dr, of oversharp images.   No client is looking for the model's dna and oversharp usually gets the reply of it looks too digital.


JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224843\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Phase files seem really over-sharp at defaults.  It all starts to look like E100GX at a certain point:  too clean, too sharp too saturated.  Its unnatural until you work the file.

[billthecat]

I'd say buy a 5D2 first and then decide about medium format later. You'll want a 5D2 anyway.

I've been hooked on the medium format image quality, but it's true that most people don't care. Also you see less difference in prints, and less in magazine type prints.

When I get my 5D2 I might make a comparison between it and the ZD. I'm first on a waiting list. You might be able to find a used Leaf at a good price.

People complain about the 5D being slow, but it is a speed demon compared to a Mamiya AFD2. Also I think all the backs will lock up from time to time.

I tried film some but only did one roll as it is a lot of work.

Bill

[samuel_js]

Medium format and a dslr like the 5d are just way different cameras, even discounting the video function of the 5d.

Different aspect ratios, different handling, lenses, speed and iso.

It's interesting to me that so much has been said about the 5d and the news from Hasselblad and I assume mostly because of pricing, but very little information about other medium format.

I would think there would be a lot of buzz from Michael's front page rumor that Sinar will get out of medium format altogether and essentially rebadge a Leaf.

I don't get it, but then again I'm not in the camera making selling business, I'm in the use cameras to make a living business.

Then again looking at the state of medium format it seems (to be polite) confusing.

Sinar will/won't make a digital back, though they are still showing thier new 31mpx back with dng and in camera jpegs (pity if this doesn't happen because in camera jpegs, a good lcd and a dng format would be a  really a needed first).  Also what's the deal with Sinar showing Brieze Lights when Bron has thier own parabolic fixtures?.  Is this another stragegic alliance?

Leaf has a new sensor, new lcd, new format, but no real concrete information on price or upgrades.  (at least any that I completly understand).

Phase has an extremly expensive new model that will go to high iso but drops to 15mpx.  That 15mpx part kind of throws me because for the added costs you can easily by a dslr alternative with more useable megapixels.  Now maybe it goes to 30mpx at 800 iso, or does something else unique, but you would think that message would be clear.

Hasselblad has new sensors, older sensors but has lowered all their prices to bargain basement, (at least in the medium format world).  The upside of the Hasselblad is their price message is clear and their lenses and most of their cameras are in place ready to buy.

Leica has a 31mpx camera but no real information about iso, speed, costs or exact delivery so in the world of digital until that hits the shelves it's all just an interesting ancedote.  (Can anyone say Pentax 645 digital, Contax D-1, or the Mamiya ZD).

It's somewhat confusing and if I was buying new today I really would have no idea which way I would go and since none of the new db's offer high iso at even medium mpx size I don't see anything that does something that is much different than what we already have.

What I don't understand is why the news at photokina is vague.  After all this is the world's biggest show and the makers have two years to plan for it.

You would think that on the day photokina opened everyone would have their newest cameras on the shelf, with a price tag and boxes of product ready to ship.

After all medium format seems to be a segment facing challanges and anything that's not exactly clear can't be good for sales.

Today I was in another production meeting with clients (the last few weeks I've been in more meetings than FED) and the only camera talk that got any attention is when I mentioned the video capabilities (and that LaForte video link) about the Canon 5D. 

That got a lot of attention.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224842\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For me is soon time for an upgrade.
For about a month ago I thought a phamiya was the way to go. For two weeks ago i was thinking Sinar. And now, after the great photokina and the new partnership announcements my impression is that the only manufacturer with clear ideas and a good marketing strategy and prices is Hasselblad.

I sold two H systems bacause I never had that feeling with the H series. Never had a problem and the files were spectacular but the camera never felt right 100%.

Now it seems my third attempt will be go with Hasselblad and stay. Here in Sweden you can buy or rent a Hasselblad anywere. Plus there's tons of used equipment.

The whole DB market is confusing:
 1.- What's phase One thinking now? The swedish stores has the P30+ at 18.000 Euros. They don't update their sites or what?

2.- What is this Leaf/Sinar partnership? Don't they believe their last announcements are good enough? Whay does Sinar need a rotating sensor when they have a revolving adapter that was a clear step forward Leaf? This announcement just pull me back...

3.- Leica announces a camera that will  start shipping in one year? That's already old news.


Hasselblad has it's downsides of course, buy they have a clear idea of what they want to offer. They have their own lenses, a good software,a good camera and more important, the best prices.

So the choice appears quite easy right now.


/Samuel

[Dustbak]

I agree with you the H is not a spectacular camera. Its ergonomics can certainly be improved. The camera does what it needs to do and does deliver very good results but it is not one of those pieces of equipment one grows to care.

I am happy I opted for the CF system that allows me to use the back on several different systems. Early on I wanted to have something I could use both on the H as well as on my V-mount equipment. The H is my workhorse the Digiflex (V-mount) is my fun toy (where can you have MFDB quality with 1.2 or even 1.0 lenses ).

The new pricing I think will truly be a bomb under the way MFDB used to be put in the market. They got rid of the yoke of the trade-in program first, that might have been an advantagous program in the early days but must have become a real burden when the MFDB market growed larger.

Hasselblad does seem to have its act together in many areas.

[Imaginara]

Im a bit in the same position as you, was going between the decision to go MFDB or go with a new 5Dmk2/old5D etc. I kind of need both worlds to solve the needs for my clients.

In the end i decided to get the MFDB now and will go for a 5Dmk2 a bit later / early next year when prices are lower and the first bugs weathered out

[Frank Doorhof]

@james,
It all depends on the person buying.

If I look at what my customers want, a 1DsII or 5D is more than enough.

HOWEVER, I'm someone who himself wants more and better quality.
For PURE commercial benefits a DSLR is the best choice.
If you are like me absolute passionate about your photography and you can afford a MF system I don't see problems with my personal points

[Snook]

@james,
It all depends on the person buying.

If I look at what my customers want, a 1DsII or 5D is more than enough.

HOWEVER, I'm someone who himself wants more and better quality.
For PURE commercial benefits a DSLR is the best choice.
If you are like me absolute passionate about your photography and you can afford a MF system I don't see problems with my personal points
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Have you guys seen this..
Looks like Canon will start copying the RED idea...
This short film was made with the new 5DII un-edited!!!
It's a whole new Ball game now..
Time to get on the waiting list???
[a href=\"http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/22/without-further-ado-reverie/]http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/22/...er-ado-reverie/[/url]
OMG
Snook

[Graham Mitchell]

All that matters is the image quality. I can deal with everything else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can you live with the 5DII's flash sync of only 1/200?

[Saša D. Karić]

Have you guys seen this..
Looks like Canon will start copying the RED idea...
This short film was made with the new 5DII un-edited!!!
It's a whole new Ball game now..
Time to get on the waiting list???
http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/22/...er-ado-reverie/
OMG
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224959\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

More wine

[James R Russell]

HOWEVER, I'm someone who himself wants more and better quality.
For PURE commercial benefits a DSLR is the best choice.
If you are like me absolute passionate about your photography and you can afford a MF system I don't see problems with my personal points
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[a href=\"http://accidentalsexiness.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/the-coppolas-and-louis-vuitton-by-annie-leibovitz/]http://accidentalsexiness.wordpress.com/20...nnie-leibovitz/[/url]