5D Mark II Announced!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ray]

No not at all. I don't expect it all, but i expect my camera to be weather sealed if the technology allows it.

Did people have dust issues with film? Probably not the way they are having issues with digital cameras - look at the new technology for dust removal.  That in itself is the paradox. Canon has the technology to weather seal it aka 1DsIII....but wont include it, instead we get the removal feature. Well, i would not need the removal feature had i the best weather sealing. Why allow the dust to get on there in the first place, and risk scratching the sensor?

If a camera allowed dust into it that resulted in scratching the film, there would be a riot. My 1980 Hasselblad has no such issues.

It makes no sense?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222235\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Makes sense to me. I've taken nearly 100,000 shots with my 5D in all sorts of dusty places as well as in light rain. Never had any problem with dust that wasn't easily removed with a blower brush. However, it's true I haven't taken the camera into a dust storm in the Simpson desert. If I intended doing that, I'd be looking at a more expensive camera.

I've spent far, far more time removing spots and scratches from just a few 100 scanned slides, over the last 10 years or so, than I have spent removing blotches and marks from my DSLR images.

[Ray]

Fully customisable auto-ISO and 7 shot +/- 3 stops exposure bracketing would have close to zero impact on cost.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How can you make such an assertion, Bernard? Maybe Canon have designed their circuitry in such a way that the inclusion of those features would entail not only a significant redesign, but create certain difficulties in other areas, the overcoming of which would indeed entail some significant cost.

One has to presume that the engineers designing Canon cameras are rational people who are not totally divorced from the needs of photographers.

[dwdallam]

This is why I can't see any reason to be glum (unless you just spent $3000 and wished you hadn't).

Jack
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jack, I'm a gonna keeeeeeel you!

I just bought the 1DS3 in April. Think about that for glumness. If the 5D2 isn't much better than the 1DS3 in image quality or high ISO noise, or any better, then I'll still be happy with it, but if I were on the market now, I would probably go with the 5D2--pending reviews of course. On the other hand, if the 5D is superior in image quality to the 1DS3, I'll not be happy with Canon at all. I think that's S&^%$ on their part getting 8K out of people and then barely two years later offering a 2600.00US camera that gives better image quality. Horrible business practice in my mind.

If that is true, then I'll tell you all one thing: People will become very, very wary about buying UP the next time the buy Canon, which could hurt Canon sales in the long run.

[dwdallam]

Anyone wanna trade a new 5DMKII + 2000.00US for a 1DS3 bought in April 2008 with less than 3K shutter releases?

[Ray]

I just bought the 1DS3 in April. Think about that for glumness. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

DWDallam,
April to November is a long time. By then, you'll have had the use of the 1Ds3 for over 7 months. The 1Ds3 is also twice as durable as the 5D2; 300,000 shutter actuations as opposed to the 5D2's 150,000. That makes the resale value of the 1Ds3 higher.
 
However, if you are not making any money as a professional photographer, I can sympathise with your frustration.

The most expensive camera I ever bought in my entire life was my first DSLR, the Canon 6mp D60. Even the 5D was slightly cheaper. When I upgraded from the D60 to the 20D, I calculated if I'd taken the same number of shots on 35mm film as I'd taken with the D60, and got the film processed at K-Mart, I'd be ahead financially   .

[Josh-H]

Anyone wanna trade a new 5DMKII + 2000.00US for a 1DS3 bought in April 2008 with less than 3K shutter releases?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So your happy to give up all of the following just because the 5DMKii is cheaper?
Full weather sealing
1/250 x sync instead of 1/200th
300,000 shutter rated life instead of 150,000
Better build quality [much better]
100% viewfinder coverage instead of 98%
Built in grip
Better Auto Focus than the 5D
Far greater customisation
and the list goes on....

I wouldnt swap my 1DSMK3 for a 5DMKII - even if the offer was trade+$4000.

[Kagetsu]

I've had mine for three months at this stage... Personally I won't be trading it for a 5D2... for added reasons... Even though I'm a little suprised that they've released something that feature packed for so little in relation... Surely it doesn't cost an extra 5K for the 1DsIII to be made. ^_~

Dual card slot
Funky blue backlighting (Hey if Nokia could originally charge an extra $200 bucks for blue LED's, why can't Canon? ^_~)
Sexy curves.
Microphone documentation feature (30 seconds sound recording)
Significantly better CF/SD door. ^_~
Compatibility with old focus screens.
As well as previously stated reasons.

EDIT: Not to downplay the camera either... Just wait until you get your hands on one... I'm not dissapointed with the 1DsIII... but I am dissapointed with Canon for keeping the price so high from the start when they released this so quickly.
As an amature photographer, it was a dream to own a 1 series camera (actually more as a technophile) to aid me in my journey of photographic discovery yet it hurt me financially to delve into it (especially in Australia). With our dodgy rate of exchange at the moment, we're not getting any breaks either.

EDIT2: Further to that, lets say, three months ago, I didn't fork out the money, and just waited... Would I now buy a 1Ds III with knowledge of the 5D II at the price they're asking? Not me. No way... I'd wait, though I'd still buy one even if it was 2K higher then the 5DII.

Personally, I'd expect Canon to release something along the lines of an N upgrade for the current 1 series... but then, we've seen a new Digic, that has 30% extra bandwidth over the Digic3.... It's anybodies guess at this point I'd say.

[JohnKoerner]

Jack, I'm a gonna keeeeeeel you!

LOL, why is that? It's not my fault you suffered from premature ephotolation

I just bought the 1DS3 in April. Think about that for glumness.

Ah, don't feel bad. When I was selling cars, some poor sod came in to trade his 3-year-old Mercedes SL500. We offered him $33K for it, and he went to screaming and hollaring about how he paid $88K for it three years ago. We welcomed him to the world of depreciation ... and how a man can lose over $50,000 in value just in the span of 3 years  

The smart customer was the fellow who came in and bought that same Mercedes SL500 for about $37K (as well as the salesman who made the $4K commissionable gross profit)  

If the 5D2 isn't much better than the 1DS3 in image quality or high ISO noise, or any better, then I'll still be happy with it, but if I were on the market now, I would probably go with the 5D2--pending reviews of course.

LOL, you're still suffering from premature ephotolation

Be happy with your camera and forget about that other one. Like I said, I myself am probably going to get the old 5D right after Christmas. Again, one thing I learned in the car business, is the smart buyers purchase the 3-year-old used cars: 1) by then the best models have clearly been identified; 2) because the greatest depreciation occurs within the first 3 years of purchasing a new vehicle, but after that depreciation levels-out substantially; and 3) you still probably have about 20,000 miles left on the 4-year drivetrain warranty

With the 5D, for all the nitpicking, it is still a fantastic camera that takes wonderful photo, and soon it will be had for a fraction of the price.

On the other hand, if the 5D is superior in image quality to the 1DS3, I'll not be happy with Canon at all. I think that's S&^%$ on their part getting 8K out of people and then barely two years later offering a 2600.00US camera that gives better image quality. Horrible business practice in my mind.

Nah, this is the way of all technology, which means it was just a horrible purchase practice  

Given the way technology changes so fast, it would have been best to have bought the camera you have when the upgrade to it came out  

If that is true, then I'll tell you all one thing: People will become very, very wary about buying UP the next time the buy Canon, which could hurt Canon sales in the long run.

Nah, too many people are always trying to "keep up with the Joneses" ... everyone will always flock to go get the new item, just because it is new and exciting. "The grass always looks greener on the other side of the mountain ..."

Just remember to appreciate the grass you have growing now, as as soon as you got rid of your 1Ds, and shot a few frames with the 5DMkII, you would soon be wishing you had your 1Ds again  

Enjoy the camera you have ... and let the new busy-bodies enjoy their 5DMkII ... everybody just likes to have that "new camera feeling" LOL

Me, I am going to enjoy my new 5DMkI, and the feeling that I got it for about half of its original price  

Jack




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[Nick Rains]

OK since people are griping...

I have a 5D2 on order, and look forward to it greatly.

BUT, given it's video capacity and built in mic, how come there is no voice annotation feature? This was something I really wanted to use and will have to pay the extra 5K for a 1Ds3 - or do without.

Still, gotta love 21mp for <3K.

[SeanBK]

.......Ah, don't feel bad. When I was selling cars,....yada,..yada...
Jack
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

  Sorry, but finally after reading all your posts, this one does summerises it. So you are a used car salesman, now trying to get into Photography via trolling.
   

[NigelC]

I have nothing to add to the prolonged exchange on the relative merits of the 5D2 versus its predecessor or Nikon/Sony competitors. But I am interested in pricing. Judging from the press release, I guessed the 5D2 would be in the region of £2000 at online retailers in the UK (the 5D is now down to £1300 or less) However, I now see that the Nikon D700 is selling at less than £1700. If we accept for a moment that the 50D is broadly in the same niche as the D300 (which is c£930) and the 5D2 is equivalent to the D700 (although biased towards different users), then Canon’s indicated pricing in UK pounds seems a bit optimistic. They need to get the 50D below £1000 and the 5D2 in at less than £1700 in my view. I think Sony, lacking currently a presence in the pro market, will have to price their full frame offering at the same level, even if the spec is higher than the Nikon/Canon competitors.

[Christopher]

I have nothing to add to the prolonged exchange on the relative merits of the 5D2 versus its predecessor or Nikon/Sony competitors. But I am interested in pricing. Judging from the press release, I guessed the 5D2 would be in the region of £2000 at online retailers in the UK (the 5D is now down to £1300 or less) However, I now see that the Nikon D700 is selling at less than £1700. If we accept for a moment that the 50D is broadly in the same niche as the D300 (which is c£930) and the 5D2 is equivalent to the D700 (although biased towards different users), then Canon’s indicated pricing in UK pounds seems a bit optimistic. They need to get the 50D below £1000 and the 5D2 in at less than £1700 in my view. I think Sony, lacking currently a presence in the pro market, will have to price their full frame offering at the same level, even if the spec is higher than the Nikon/Canon competitors.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't think the price will be aimed at the D700. It will more likely be aimed at the a900.

[NigelC]

I'm not sure about that. While the 5D2 is not directly in competition with the D700 (except for a relatively small market segment of pros who find something in one or other that makes the business case to swap or duplicate systems), but I for one would be miffed if I had to pay significantly more than people who have Nikon lenses have to pay for a new FF body. And that can lead to consumer resistance.

I would think it unwise for Canon to peg to A900 price, which I think will be c.£2000. I don't think Sony expect to sell that many A900's. Its main role is as an image maker to attract sales of the A200/A300/A350. Why? Well Sonu UK say they don't yet expect many pros to buy, for obvious reasons. They are targetting advanced amateurs, who almost by definition are already locked into one system or other.
Having said that I do think Sony is here to stay and can be regarded as a very serious player - they just need a few years to achieve the market penetration at the upper echelons.

[Christopher]

I'm not sure about that. While the 5D2 is not directly in competition with the D700 (except for a relatively small market segment of pros who find something in one or other that makes the business case to swap or duplicate systems), but I for one would be miffed if I had to pay significantly more than people who have Nikon lenses have to pay for a new FF body. And that can lead to consumer resistance.

I would think it unwise for Canon to peg to A900 price, which I think will be c.£2000. I don't think Sony expect to sell that many A900's. Its main role is as an image maker to attract sales of the A200/A300/A350. Why? Well Sonu UK say they don't yet expect many pros to buy, for obvious reasons. They are targetting advanced amateurs, who almost by definition are already locked into one system or other.
Having said that I do think Sony is here to stay and can be regarded as a very serious player - they just need a few years to achieve the market penetration at the upper echelons.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222328\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

We will see what the plan really is. I to think, that Sony should be taken seriously and that we can expect great things from them. They will just need a little more time. I personally am very happy if I get a 5DII at around 2400EURs, which soon should be possible.

[JohnKoerner]

Sorry, but finally after reading all your posts, this one does summerises it. So you are a used car salesman, now trying to get into Photography via trolling.
   
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wow, you read all my posts?

I guess I have my very own online fan then  

To think, here I have had my entire life story summarized (summerises, is that a word?) into a one-liner ... by a genius who uses words that don't exist and who misspells them too

Another thing you have wrong is that I am not trying "to get into" photography as a profession either; I just enjoy taking nature photos as a hobby

Regarding my vocation, I have had many. I was an insurance fraud investigator for 12 years. I was a repo man for 5 years. I got into the car selling business for a couple of years, because it was different and because a buddy of mine was making $10K/month doing so. I liked the idea of meeting new people and learning how to sell. I learned a lot of valuable things doing this, actually, one of which was the error of buying new vehicles. The other thing I learned was how long the damned hours were, LOL

When I first got into photography last year, I was totally caught-up in wanting "the latest and best" in cameras, but quickly applied what I'd learned in cars (that it's smarter to buy the old, proven model at a good price), and thought I'd share the analogy to help some people not make knee-jerk purchase decisions and waste their money.

Is that my "trolling"---or is that you just not seeing the value of what was said? Of course, one could argue that with a 5DMkII, we're only talking about a thousand bucks, so I may buy the new model after all  But for just a fancier wanting something like a 1Ds, I certainly would wait for it to become yesterday's model before purchase.

Speaking of trolling, maybe you'd care to share the lesson or contribution to be learned in your post  

Oh, and by the way, what do you do for a living (now that we have ruled-out anything having to do with proficiency in the English language)?

 

Jack




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[NikosR]

Hey Jack-John or whatever your name is,

Why don't you take my advice and bugger off to dpreview where you belong? You'll get much of what you're looking for in there. Everybody will be happy then.

[Limosa]

Hey Jack-John or whatever your name is,

Why don't you take my advice and bugger off to dpreview where you belong? You'll get much of what you're looking for in there. Everybody will be happy then.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222358\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting to see this kind of aggression show up sooner or later. Certainly reminds one of dpreview. One word: schoolyard.

[Tony Beach]

There's a lot there for Nikon owners to be envious of, but the D700 still retains a few advantages, so no need to feel too despondent.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am not despondent at all about the 5DII, actually I'm thrilled for everyone.  For me there is only one thing to be envious of about it, 21 MP for under $3000.  I own a D300 and not a D700 and I specifically passed on the D700 in anticipation of an FX DSLR with higher resolution for around $3000.  With the A900 and 5DII announcements that is looking more likely to happen sooner rather than later (probably first half of next year).  I have been bemused by 5D owners whining about an upgrade.  The camera takes the same images today that it took when it first came out and the only thing that has changed since then is that some people's DSLRs can shoot at higher ISO settings, the prices of features and image quality has gone down, and you can pick up a 5D for a lot less than it cost new.

I think such discussions about this or that camera have things exactly backwards; you start with what your needs are, then you decide on the lenses and work your backwards to the camera.  I've got great Nikkor lenses, and my D300 makes them sing, you will not see me whining about an upgrade to my D300.  It's great that Canon has announced this camera, but I would consider it foolhardy to jump ship from one's current camera to run out and buy the 5DII just because it has more resolution than their old camera -- in fact, even for Canon users the price of a used 5D undoubtedly just got a lot cheaper and might not be a bad idea for many.

[Chris_Brown]

If the 5D2 isn't much better than the 1DS3 in image quality or high ISO noise, or any better, then I'll still be happy with it, but if I were on the market now, I would probably go with the 5D2...

Each camera has its own target market. If you feel the 5D2 has a feature set that fits your needs better than the 1Ds3, then that's the camera for you. A careful study of both camera's feature sets will reveal what you really need for your work. Just because one is more expensive than the other doesn't mean it's universally a better tool.

For example:
Will you use the HD video feature? There is no quality sound capture with it.
Will you use the higher ISO settings?
Will you buy the Wi-Fi grip to transmit images to a base computer?
Will you use the IR receptor that is designed to work with Canon Speedlights?

Just these features alone tell me Canon has designed this camera for the wedding & event photographer. It appears to be able to provide an excellent workflow for someone in that business.

[NikosR]

Interesting to see this kind of aggression show up sooner or later. Certainly reminds one of dpreview. One word: schoolyard.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're right. But you are addressing your comment to the wrong person. If you had cared to read the posts above mine that should have been clear.