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Author Topic: New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)  (Read 224950 times)

thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2008, 11:32:46 am »

Billy,

your wishes/ideas have been forwarded already.

Keeping in mind that a multishot for location work (with display) adds to the costs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry,
Looking forward, I'd like to see an eSprit 75H multi-shot
where Sinar standardizes on this new casing, 3" LCD and eMotion-series adapter plates,

and adopts the capture speed and high-ISO performance of the eMotion75LV-II.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218680\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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jmboss

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2008, 12:31:47 pm »

Thierry,

Thank you very much for thowing yourself to the wolves here on LL with new Leaf product information.

It has required a lot of time and effort on your part, as well as a great amount of patience, when stirring up this bee hive with new food for thought, to provide calm after the storm.

My question is hopefully a simple old one that will continue to be asked everytime new a MFDB is introduced by any manufacturer not just Sinar:

For all of us architectural/landscape photographers, what is the longest exposure time offered with this new MFDB sensor model? And are the resultant images noise free enough to match up with the competition, such as Phase One's Expose+ in you opinion.

Again, Thank you Thierry for all the product info you are able (or allowed by your company) to provide to us.

Best wishes for a great Photokina show. I would dearly love to attend one of these exhibitions; especially this one.

Joe Bossuyt
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Natasa Stojsic

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #122 on: September 01, 2008, 01:59:51 pm »

Quote
Why, if I may ask? Far from what?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Obviously, far from thinking ahead of us photographers... hehehehe  

Quote
I think we do pay attention, but there are many other considerations in the balance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That will play a huge difference when time comes to invest/switch!!!

Quote
The proof is already there, that what was claimed so loud by some, that Sinar was not listening to the voices of the market, was "slightly" exaggerated. And I am not the one to take credit on this, but a whole team.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Perhaps, but the fact remains majority/WORLD KNOWS ABOUT Thierry and that's it... simple truth!!!

So, as far as I am concerned I give credit to you for SINAR and Yair for LEAF!!!

Now, you have whole Army of Phase Pros here to give credit to and elsewhere who will be more than happy to deliver and assist you... most of them will send you any piece of Phase equipment along with camera lenses on any corner of the World that you may happen to be... of course that's a good currency, no?

PS: I don't mean if you're stuck or you have problems... I mean they will send you where ever you happen to be so you can try/test/etc.

[span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thanks to PHASE folks... you guys now who you are[/span]    !!!

Quote
Let's see what the future brings: a wheel always turns, what is one day can be challenged the next one.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed  

Quote
We all want to survive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Being Aries... I couldn't possibly doubt your survival skils... since I myslef am Aries too    

However, in todays world/business investing in company/etc. based on survival skills/mentality is not enough I'm a fraid!!!

Perhaps, you can rephrase since I feel that SINAR potentially has the WINNER with this one, if not  Worldwide at least among this crowd, my self included!!!

PS: If I may suggest.... Why don't you/SINAR open up web Sales where one can put the list of equipment together, calculate everything on the spot and get a representative assigned to cantact/visit customers/us... by your self !!!!  

That way it can be supervised and successfully organized from start to finish!!!

Just don't tell me you're busy please..... because it is worth a switch, especially with the new line of products  
 
!!!I smell Success!!!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 03:33:18 pm by Natasa Stojsic »
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Lust4Life

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #123 on: September 01, 2008, 03:02:18 pm »

OK, a question that seems simple but it's answer could preclude my considering the camera,or any camera for that matter.  

I hike extensively with my camera/digital back.

Just spent the weekend "test driving" the Phase/Mamiya camera and found one simple issue that will preclude my purchase of it:  The camera strap hooks REQUIRE that the camera be carried in a horizontal axis.  

Well, that's just great.  Put the 28mm lens on the front and a P45+ on the back of the camera.  Now strap on a Think Tank Photo belt loaded with additional lenses and goodies.  Now hike along at a quick pace and just ignore the fact that the P45+ screen is banging against the belt, etc.  Now couple that with the fact that I hike with the camera and back in the ON state and just image what the buttons on the back of the Phase back have reset the various variables to.  Add to this the fact that the face of the lens is looking forward so any tree branches or bushes can have their day with the front glass element - and yes, I know, I could put the lens cover on it BUT it will fall off in the brush OR I'll miss that once in a life time shot because the cover was on.  

I'd like to know who the mental midget was that designed that feature.

Thus, does the Sinar or the Hy6 suffer from the same attribute?

Jack
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Jack

Dustbak

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2008, 03:36:15 pm »

Quote
Billy,

your wishes/ideas have been forwarded already.

Keeping in mind that a multishot for location work (with display) adds to the costs.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218702\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Now, does that mean you are thinking about multishot on location without being tethered to an external computer?? Having the multishot done completely by the back?

That would be really interesting. The only other multishot solutions do have a screen but multishot needs to be done tethered. Not having to slap around the laptop would be a really nice addition.
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BJNY

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #125 on: September 01, 2008, 06:11:36 pm »

Quote
Just spent the weekend "test driving" the Phase/Mamiya camera and found one simple issue that will preclude my purchase of it:  The camera strap hooks REQUIRE that the camera be carried in a horizontal axis. 

Lust4Life,
Is there a film camera that fits your criteria?
The only one that comes to mind is a Pentax 67 with its lugs.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 06:21:31 pm by BJNY »
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Guillermo

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« Reply #126 on: September 01, 2008, 06:23:02 pm »

Can I ask why Sinar is going back to Kodak, and to a lower pixel-count sensor that seems to be the new budget-model with Phase and Hasselblad? This back must be priced below 10.000 euros?

Henrik
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 06:28:36 pm by henrikfoto »
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Mitchell Baum

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #127 on: September 01, 2008, 08:33:17 pm »

Spent a few days with the Hy6 75LV. Loved it but decided it was too much money for me.

Thinking seriously of the Hy6-65, but it occurs to me that even though the Hy6 s65r will be more expensive it might be the better investment because it works with other cameras. If one wants to sell the Hy6-65 back, but keep the the Hy6 camera, the only market you have is Hy6 camera owners who lack a back. Not a large group. Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Mitchell
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Gigi

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #128 on: September 01, 2008, 09:24:51 pm »

Quote
Spent a few days with the Hy6 75LV. Loved it but decided it was too much money for me.

Thinking seriously of the Hy6-65, but it occurs to me that even though the Hy6 s65r will be more expensive it might be the better investment because it works with other cameras. If one wants to sell the Hy6-65 back, but keep the the Hy6 camera, the only market you have is Hy6 camera owners who lack a back. Not a large group. Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218786\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
es, you are right, and also the one with the rotating back makes a lot of sense for use and orientation purposes.

Two other thoughts:

1) until we see these and see how they price out, it is hard to chose. It may be that the non-rotating back is quite a bit cheaper and thus attractive from another perspective.

2)  gee guys, we're pretty hard on Thierry. Lets give him a break for being willing to post and participate, and patiently answer most things that come across his bow.

While I for one appreciate JR's posts, perhaps he is raising issues that aren't handled at the sales level, but rather at management level? He may be correct, and I do agree with him, but for now, its fun watching the competitiveness amongst the MFDB makers and watching features improve and prices drop.

Best,

Geoff
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Geoff

Lust4Life

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #129 on: September 01, 2008, 10:09:25 pm »

Quote
Lust4Life,
Is there a film camera that fits your criteria?
The only one that comes to mind is a Pentax 67 with its lugs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The cameras I've had in the past all had lugs that allowed you to carry the camera/lens/back in a vertical posture; Hasselblad 500C, 503CW, H1 and the H2.

Got pissed at Hassie when they closed their system and have dumped all of the Hassie gear.

Searching for the best solution, and must admit to still having my money in the bank as no one product has hit me right.

Jack
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Jack

Guy Mancuso

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #130 on: September 01, 2008, 10:19:24 pm »

Quote
Spent a few days with the Hy6 75LV. Loved it but decided it was too much money for me.

Thinking seriously of the Hy6-65, but it occurs to me that even though the Hy6 s65r will be more expensive it might be the better investment because it works with other cameras. If one wants to sell the Hy6-65 back, but keep the the Hy6 camera, the only market you have is Hy6 camera owners who lack a back. Not a large group. Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218786\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


In a sense that would be correct. If you bought the package together than you are stuck with selling that back to a Sinar user only. But if you bought the s65r than the buyer could change it out. To me this maybe a better option but only if you plan on selling it in a year or so. But buying separate camera and body we can bet for sure it would be more expensive than buying the package of camera and body.

This does make you think before you buy on what your future plans maybe. it also depends very much on how they price this out. Let me play the devil here and give you the scenario on what is going on today. Hassy 31 17 k for body and back , Phase P30 plus figure just a touch more about 18k so basically they are throwing in the body in the deal. Question of the day is this will Sinar be throwing in a body in the deal. Now granted the Sinar has a couple extra features like the 3 inch LCD and some firmware that will do DNG and Jpegs and can't remember the rest but those two maybe the most significant between them. Now the 64 thousand dollar question is Sinar going to try and match that price range. Frankly i don't think they can, now i am completely guessing and we will know for sure at Photokinia but my bet is not a chance it will be close more like 22k. That is a guess and a opinion so don't hold me to it. But doing my research when i bought my Phase back a few months ago, i could not afford Sinar at the time, just that simple. Will it be like that in three weeks only time will tell. No offense Theirry but I don't have hopes up for it to be within a very close range of the others, more for the extra features given but still a distance away in my book. Now i am thinking like the end user not the sales reps or the marketing guys.Us end users go by logic and what we see the market as or better yet what we are willing to pay for features and function. You have to decide what Sinar is releasing is significant enough over the others to justify the costs and of course this works the other way around also. Some of us will pay dearly for a 3 inch LCD , myself i will not. Just as a example there.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 10:24:13 pm by Guy Mancuso »
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James R Russell

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #131 on: September 02, 2008, 12:37:29 am »

Quote
perhaps he is raising issues that aren't handled at the sales level, but rather at management level? He may be correct, and I do agree with him, but for now, its fun watching the competitiveness amongst the MFDB makers and watching features improve and prices drop.

Best,

Geoff
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218792\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I hope this doesn't come across as being hard on Theirry or any rep, though I do hope that Theirry and Yair are here to field the hard questions.

Obviously there are the only two sets of eyes and ears to the manufacturers here, Theirry and Yair so let's hope that what we spend our time writing goes somewhere other than googleland.

That said, there is a lot of reasons to buy any camera and obviously we all have different styles, workflow and expectations, including costs.

As far as costs, I don't know the exact numbers but I assume that any back on an HY6 or AFI won't be rock bottom priced.  The camera and lenses are just more expensive, given their origins.

The new Sinar back, I don't know about, as Theirry said, wait 3 weeks.

But, back to the camera, I can accept an expensive camera and lens set if its well made and is a long term purchase.  If it's not so well made or will be an interim camera, then price is more of a consideration.

If price really is the issue, then I suggest either a contax, an RZ as both of those systems are rock bottom in price.  For example a lightly used P30+ and a contax with a standard lens can probably be bought for 14,000 U.S.   probably less if you look around and the lens package for that camera is fairly inexpensive, almost to Canon territory.

Still, since I'm hoping that we have someone's ear I'd like to see a few things on all the new digital backs.

(Yes I'm a list guy)

1.  An lcd that is not only detailed but works when tethered.  Also an LCD that you can adjust color and contrast to match the computer a little closer and a black and white function for those days you shoot black and white.

2.  A DNG file or an open source file that is read properly in all the raw convertors.  It's sometimes a pleasent surprise to throw a file in a 3rd party converter and see the look, but usually it's just not what you invisioned so your back to roll your own presets.  I suggest everyone send Thomas Knoll a fruit basket (same with the C-1 people) and say please, please, please let the software read all of the preset information in a file.

3.  Software that allows you to set color and look in the computer and the camera.  Same with naming.  Whatever naming convention you use tethered should continue on untethered, unless you want to change it.

4.  Stability.  Period.  The most important of all of the features.

5.  Don't forget that clean nice 800 iso  (minimum).

JR
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flashfredrikson

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« Reply #132 on: September 02, 2008, 03:07:47 am »

I would like to add to your list, Mr. Russel:
1. Iso 50 for those sunny days using flash
2. 1 fps minimum with 2 being perfect


martin.
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #133 on: September 02, 2008, 03:43:41 am »

hi Joe

Quote
Thierry,
Thank you very much for thowing yourself to the wolves here on LL with new Leaf product information.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There must be a misspelling here: I am from Sinar and representing only the Sinar brand.

Quote
For all of us architectural/landscape photographers, what is the longest exposure time offered with this new MFDB sensor model? And are the resultant images noise free enough to match up with the competition, such as Phase One's Expose+ in you opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You can go up to 30 sec. exposure and that has proven enough for architectural work. The files are NEVER noise-free, when using long exposures. How much noise depends on the ambient temperature, the cooler the less noise, the hotter the more.
Our RAW files are not filtered, but a "Noise Filter" can be applied at wish to the files, with the Sinar Hy6 - 65: see my post N° 38.

See also some night images taken by architecture photographer Rainer Viertlböck, with long exposures and under ambient temperatures of 35°C +: this gives you an idea of what can be done and the level of noise (none).

www.tangential.de

Quote
Again, Thank you Thierry for all the product info you are able (or allowed by your company) to provide to us.
Best wishes for a great Photokina show. I would dearly love to attend one of these exhibitions; especially this one.

Joe Bossuyt
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Thanks and you are welcome,
Thierry
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 03:45:05 am by thsinar »
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #134 on: September 02, 2008, 03:57:41 am »

hi Dustback,

No, I am not saying this, but all options are open. We are looking into the next generation of MS, so it's worth to discuss all possibilities, keeping in mind the costs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Now, does that mean you are thinking about multishot on location without being tethered to an external computer?? Having the multishot done completely by the back?

That would be really interesting. The only other multishot solutions do have a screen but multishot needs to be done tethered. Not having to slap around the laptop would be a really nice addition.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #135 on: September 02, 2008, 04:01:54 am »

I read always people saying "going to" , "switching to", "going back to": there is nothing such.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Can I ask why Sinar is going back to Kodak?

Henrik
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #136 on: September 02, 2008, 04:14:42 am »

hi Jack,

this is something I did not really pay attention, when I had the straps on it, I rarely need them. However, if I remember it right, the camera hangs lens-down on the shoulder, but not sure anymore.

I guess some users might jump in here to give their experience.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
OK, a question that seems simple but it's answer could preclude my considering the camera,or any camera for that matter. 

I hike extensively with my camera/digital back.

Just spent the weekend "test driving" the Phase/Mamiya camera and found one simple issue that will preclude my purchase of it:  The camera strap hooks REQUIRE that the camera be carried in a horizontal axis. 

Well, that's just great.  Put the 28mm lens on the front and a P45+ on the back of the camera.  Now strap on a Think Tank Photo belt loaded with additional lenses and goodies.  Now hike along at a quick pace and just ignore the fact that the P45+ screen is banging against the belt, etc.  Now couple that with the fact that I hike with the camera and back in the ON state and just image what the buttons on the back of the Phase back have reset the various variables to.  Add to this the fact that the face of the lens is looking forward so any tree branches or bushes can have their day with the front glass element - and yes, I know, I could put the lens cover on it BUT it will fall off in the brush OR I'll miss that once in a life time shot because the cover was on. 

I'd like to know who the mental midget was that designed that feature.

Thus, does the Sinar or the Hy6 suffer from the same attribute?

Jack
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #137 on: September 02, 2008, 04:45:12 am »

hi Mitchell,

yes, this makes sense, if you plan to use the back on an other platform.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Spent a few days with the Hy6 75LV. Loved it but decided it was too much money for me.

Thinking seriously of the Hy6-65, but it occurs to me that even though the Hy6 s65r will be more expensive it might be the better investment because it works with other cameras. If one wants to sell the Hy6-65 back, but keep the the Hy6 camera, the only market you have is Hy6 camera owners who lack a back. Not a large group. Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Mitchell
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2008, 05:46:29 am »

Quote
Obviously, far from thinking ahead of us photographers... hehehehe  
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I do dare to think the contrary.

Quote
Perhaps, but the fact remains majority/WORLD KNOWS ABOUT Thierry and that's it... simple truth!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The internet and the forum world are an important player, but it's not the whole world, by far not.  I can assure you that some other people from Sinar are well known and deserve credit.

Quote
Now, you have whole Army of Phase Pros here..., .... most of them will send you any piece of Phase equipment along with camera lenses on any corner of the World that you may happen to be... of course that's a good currency, no?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I would not swap for any money of the world!
 

Quote
PS: I don't mean if you're stuck or you have problems... I mean they will send you where ever you happen to be so you can try/test/etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ah, that sounds better.
   

Quote
However, in todays world/business investing in company/etc. based on survival skills/mentality is not enough I'm a fraid!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Business survival, Natasa.

Quote
Perhaps, you can rephrase since I feel that SINAR potentially has the WINNER with this one, if not  Worldwide at least among this crowd, my self included!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You said it!

Quote
PS: If I may suggest.... Why don't you/SINAR open up web Sales where one can put the list of equipment together, calculate everything on the spot and get a representative assigned to cantact/visit customers/us... by your self !!!!
That way it can be supervised and successfully organized from start to finish!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Worth some thoughts, agreed

Quote
Just don't tell me you're busy please..... because it is worth a switch, especially with the new line of products
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218726\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am busy!

Quote
!!!I smell Success!!!
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Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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New Sinar Hy6 - 65 Camera System (31 MPx)
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2008, 05:58:54 am »

Hi Guy,

just some corrections:

- it seemed to me that the Hasselblad 31 MPx was US$ 18k, not 17

- P30+ w/ 1 year Classic Warranty = $19,990.00 (Chris Lawery, Capture Integration, Aug 10th ---> here: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....62&hl=p30\

Remark: Sinar has a standard 3-year warranty for all its products.
Add this value to the price and you will get a closer/fairer comparison, when the "Sinar Hy6 - 65" prices are known.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

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Hassy 31 17 k for body and back , Phase P30 plus figure just a touch more about 18k ...
... but my bet is not a chance it will be close more like 22k. That is a guess and a opinion so don't hold me to it. But doing my research when i bought my Phase back a few months ago, i could not afford Sinar at the time, just that simple. Will it be like that in three weeks only time will tell. No offense Theirry but I don't have hopes up for it to be within a very close range of the others, more for the extra features given but still a distance away in my book. Now i am thinking like the end user not the sales reps or the marketing guys.Us end users go by logic and what we see the market as or better yet what we are willing to pay for features and function. You have to decide what Sinar is releasing is significant enough over the others to justify the costs and of course this works the other way around also. Some of us will pay dearly for a 3 inch LCD , myself i will not. Just as a example there.
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« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 06:00:20 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
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