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Author Topic: P65+  (Read 132994 times)

James R Russell

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« Reply #220 on: July 15, 2008, 11:27:55 am »

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Then don't!  Nobody is forcing you.  Let others who are willing to do so go ahead of you.  You have the option to wait until it is a perfectly functioning product before you enter, but of course you may pay a bit more by doing so.

My point is you seem to be blaming a company for a business practice that its customers want.  Sure, you can disagree with the folks participating, but it's not a company's fault they're offering a service that fills a demand...   

,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208388\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Whoa.  There's no blame.  

Don't take what I write that seriously . . . I don't.

But as far as the paying more part, naw, that's not usually the rule, not when you factor in time.

Anyway, are you buying?  

JR
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 11:35:51 am by James R Russell »
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #221 on: July 15, 2008, 11:34:43 am »

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Anyway, are you buying? 

JR
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Nope, at least not initially.  (I'm still feeling the financial pain from my last back purchase!)


,
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 11:38:24 am by Jack Flesher »
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Jack
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Snook

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« Reply #222 on: July 15, 2008, 11:55:37 am »

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It is if the new back isn't aligned properly with your body.
Yep, and probably why you have the sharpness issue...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jack any suggestions?
Sorry but where I live there is no option sending body and back off.
And the Local Phase dealer does nothing like that.
Is there any home made options..:+}

Also it seem like the Images had like slight image shake.. like when I do jumping stuff and the flash I have does not have short duration the images especially the eye look blurred slightly.
But I was shooting completely still portrait shots. even when they were in focus they some how looked stranger less in focus than my P30.. maybe it was maxing out the lens or something?
Any case I'd appreciate any suggestions on the shimming..:+]
Snokk
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James R Russell

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« Reply #223 on: July 15, 2008, 12:00:03 pm »

Quote
Jack any suggestions?
Sorry but where I live there is no option sending body and back off.
And the Local Phase dealer does nothing like that.
Is there any home made options..:+}

Also it seem like the Images had like slight image shake.. like when I do jumping stuff and the flash I have does not have short duration the images especially the eye look blurred slightly.
But I was shooting completely still portrait shots. even when they were in focus they some how looked stranger less in focus than my P30.. maybe it was maxing out the lens or something?
Any case I'd appreciate any suggestions on the shimming..:+]
Snokk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


*
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Paul2660

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« Reply #224 on: July 15, 2008, 12:06:08 pm »

Snook,

What lens and by any chance are you shooting with the camera in the portrait position?  I get this same effect you are describing where the images seem shaken.  It's like the camera was bumped up.  Everything will have a slight shadow above the real subject.

I tend to get it the most with the 35mm, on tripod, at slower shutter speeds even with the remote release.  It always seems to be with the camera in the portrait position.  

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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BJL

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« Reply #225 on: July 15, 2008, 12:08:59 pm »

To the following comments, let me say that there is almost no cost reduction associated with makiing a sensor of the same size but lower pixel count; higher frame rates and lower storage needs are the only demonstrated advantage of having fewer, bigger pixels on the same sized sensor. If higher pixel counts in the same format command higher prices, this is evidence of market demand: the greater desirability of the higher resolution for at least some customers.

In fact if anything, designing and tooling up to make two sensors of the same size instead of a single one will increase costs.

Combining this with the fact that the feared IQ disadvantage of having more, smaller pixels on the same size of sensor can be mostly eliminated by binning, downsampling, or even just the dithering effect of printing at the same size and so at higher PPI, and there is very little downside to increasing pixel counts except memory needs and frame rates.

Which is why every sensor maker keeps reducing pixel size in every format, even if the higher pixel counts offer little gain in IQ for many customers.

I have only seen one demonstrated image related advantage of fewer, bigger photosites: higher frame rates within given limits on processing power. The Nikon D1H, D2H, D3 and the Canon 1D models and 5D all fit this model. In the case of the 5D, achieving even its modest 3fps limited it to about 13MP as it shares a processor with the 20D and 30D, and that processor is capable of only about 40 MP per second.

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A cheaper and lower resolution 645 size back ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208303\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

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How about a 30MP 645 sensor with 1 frame every 4 seconds, super-clean ISO 800 and exposures of up to 1 hour, specially for us architecture guys? I don't even want an LCD screen! Should be much cheaper, no?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208304\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 12:09:48 pm by BJL »
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lance_schad

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« Reply #226 on: July 15, 2008, 12:26:08 pm »

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Jack any suggestions?
Sorry but where I live there is no option sending body and back off.
And the Local Phase dealer does nothing like that.
Is there any home made options..:+}

Also it seem like the Images had like slight image shake.. like when I do jumping stuff and the flash I have does not have short duration the images especially the eye look blurred slightly.
But I was shooting completely still portrait shots. even when they were in focus they some how looked stranger less in focus than my P30.. maybe it was maxing out the lens or something?
Any case I'd appreciate any suggestions on the shimming..:+]
Snokk
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What was the focal length and shutter speed that you were using? We have found that sometimes when people have been using these high resolution sensors the shutter speed comes into play quite a bit. Our rule of thumb is that you use twice your focal length.
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Toll Free: 877-217-9870
[a href=\"http://www.captureintegration.com]Capture Integration [/url]
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LANCE SCHAD - DIGITAL TRANSITIONS

Snook

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« Reply #227 on: July 15, 2008, 12:26:29 pm »

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Snook,

What lens and by any chance are you shooting with the camera in the portrait position?  I get this same effect you are describing where the images seem shaken.  It's like the camera was bumped up.  Everything will have a slight shadow above the real subject.

I tend to get it the most with the 35mm, on tripod, at slower shutter speeds even with the remote release.  It always seems to be with the camera in the portrait position. 

Paul C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hey Paul... Haven't noticed if it happens in both but I am sure it does..
This was mostly with the P45 they lent me. But I had the same thing happens a lot with my Canons and the Profoto acutes..I think it was the Flash as the Duration stinks on the smaller line of Profoto packs.

Also when I sharpen the basic setting in C-1 setting there would show up like little jaggies real quick. I will have to put some Contrast Sharpening on all the images to make them appear sharper......

I have another big shoot friday with the P45 again and will try some landscape positions to check.

I was using either the 65mm or the 180mm both had the same effect.
Tripod of course, and was shooting 250th at F11 more or less. Profoto 7a 2400.

James I did not get the Thor post...?
Sorry I had a look again and I get it, I think.. Brute Force? :+}



Let me try and upload a 100 crop......


Snook
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 12:28:38 pm by Snook »
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #228 on: July 15, 2008, 01:24:23 pm »

Quote
Jack any suggestions?
Sorry but where I live there is no option sending body and back off.
And the Local Phase dealer does nothing like that.
Is there any home made options..:+}

Also it seem like the Images had like slight image shake.. like when I do jumping stuff and the flash I have does not have short duration the images especially the eye look blurred slightly.
But I was shooting completely still portrait shots. even when they were in focus they some how looked stranger less in focus than my P30.. maybe it was maxing out the lens or something?
Any case I'd appreciate any suggestions on the shimming..:+]
Snokk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think you want the back pressed tighter to the body, not shimmed away from it, so for temporary, maybe some Gaffer tape to hold it tighter to the body?  At least worth a test...

On the double image -- this is really interesting to hear...  Just yesterday I had another P45 user ask me to look at some of his files that exhibit that same trait, but only when he shoots in the vertical or portrait orientation(!)  He is sending me a DVD full of samples and as soon as I see those, I'll comment back here.

I am suspecting it is a loose back issue allowing a slight vibration during capture -- and we know mirror slap on the RZ is pretty significant   A slightly loose back might explain why some people who have posted are complaining about "blurry" P45 images on Mamiya AFD when others of us using the same gear don't have the issue...

Cheers,
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 01:30:52 pm by Jack Flesher »
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Jack
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #229 on: July 15, 2008, 01:31:57 pm »

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Snook,

What lens and by any chance are you shooting with the camera in the portrait position?  I get this same effect you are describing where the images seem shaken.  It's like the camera was bumped up.  Everything will have a slight shadow above the real subject.

I tend to get it the most with the 35mm, on tripod, at slower shutter speeds even with the remote release.  It always seems to be with the camera in the portrait position. 

Paul C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Paul:

Is the back fitting snug to the body or is there possibly a little bit of "slop" or "wiggle" ?
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Jack
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #230 on: July 15, 2008, 01:42:11 pm »

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Whoa.  There's no blame. 

Don't take what I write that seriously . . . I don't.

But as far as the paying more part, naw, that's not usually the rule, not when you factor in time.

Anyway, are you buying? 

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey James,

You're like a breath of fresh air in this crazy world of MFDB photography. Man you make me laugh, keep it coming!  A perfect antidote to all this pixel peeping.

Quite honestly I think the price of all this new gear is putting more people off MF digital than encouraging them to start.  When you pay a high price for a back one month and the very next it's on a promotion with a camera attached and for a much lower price doesn't encourage one to dip one's toe in the water does it ? Once again I ask why all the older backs are not sold cheaply to get people started and hooked into MF digital. You rarely see them advertised anywhere.

The way things are going the prices of this gear will rise even higher as the numbers sold get even lower. A very dangerous game to play in my opinion.

My two cents,

Pete
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Kumar

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« Reply #231 on: July 15, 2008, 02:00:55 pm »

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Nope, at least not initially.  (I'm still feeling the financial pain from my last back purchase!)
,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208395\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe I should start taking bets on how soon you (and Guy) succumb.  

Cheers,
Kumar
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Paul2660

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« Reply #232 on: July 15, 2008, 02:04:16 pm »

Hello Jack,

The back is tight, I went back and checked it.  I can't move it with the camera in either landscape or portrait orientation.  

I found an interesting series:

I took 3 in the horizontal orientation, all is fine.  With the lens still in the same focus settng and set to manual, I rotated it, (with a Kirk L bracket) and I see the strange jumping of the solid objects, rocks.    I am wondering if the camera has some inheritent instability in the vertical mode?

Thanks
Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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KevinA

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« Reply #233 on: July 15, 2008, 02:37:51 pm »

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I posted in May I'd heard it was going to be 70mp, more interestingly that it could also be shot at half the pixel count, for speed and maybe noise. That would be an interesting feature if it turns out to be true.

Kevin.
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Bugger I should of done the lottery.

Kevin.
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cyberean

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« Reply #234 on: July 15, 2008, 02:53:54 pm »

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With the lens still in the same focus settng and set to manual, I rotated it, (with a Kirk L bracket) and I see the strange jumping of the solid objects, rocks.
(thinking the l-bracket might not be rigid enough in vert mode ...),
try leaving the cam/bracket in a horizontal position and adjust
the head to vert orientation, instead, (... if the head supports
such an adjustment).

Quote
I am wondering if the camera has some inheritent instability in the vertical mode?
if the above doesn't address the vibration issue, engage the
the mirror lock up (... if available).
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #235 on: July 15, 2008, 02:56:37 pm »

Quote
Hello Jack,

The back is tight, I went back and checked it.  I can't move it with the camera in either landscape or portrait orientation. 

I found an interesting series:

I took 3 in the horizontal orientation, all is fine.  With the lens still in the same focus settng and set to manual, I rotated it, (with a Kirk L bracket) and I see the strange jumping of the solid objects, rocks.    I am wondering if the camera has some inheritent instability in the vertical mode?

Thanks
Paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you using mirror lock up?  (Maybe mirror damping is better in horizontal?)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 02:57:52 pm by Jack Flesher »
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Jack
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Jack Flesher

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« Reply #236 on: July 15, 2008, 02:59:40 pm »

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Maybe I should start taking bets on how soon you (and Guy) succumb.   

Cheers,
Kumar
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Smart money will be on Guy jumping LONG before me
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 03:00:42 pm by Jack Flesher »
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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #237 on: July 15, 2008, 03:36:08 pm »

I'm very happy with my little piece of crap 22mpx P25 Plus against you big boys. Not to say someone knocks on my door and offers me a P45 plus for 15 k than all bets are off.

Seriously I am really happy with this back , sure maybe more is better overall but I love the files so far. The big deal to me is i am in MF land and anywhere you step is a major improvement and if you need the new P65 than you need the P65 . I welcome this with open arms, technology from this will just filter down into other backs and improvements will be made be it tomorrow or a year from now we want these companies to grow and improve and frankly whining this don't fit your needs is crap. So what it may fit someone's else's needs better. If anyone owns a Nikon are the camera's specifically being made for you. No there are more bells and whistles to fit everyones needs and what you don't want  just turn off in the menu. I use maybe 30 percent of that camera but we can't expect a small industry like the MF world to completely make something specific to our needs. I think some of us are a little unrealistic of what can be made for the MF backs.
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Guy Mancuso

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« Reply #238 on: July 15, 2008, 03:37:00 pm »

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Smart money will be on Guy jumping LONG before me
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Hell who has any money left to bet. LOL
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Paul2660

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« Reply #239 on: July 15, 2008, 04:31:08 pm »

Jack,

Yes, mirror lock up was used, before each shot.
The Kirk L bracket is definately not loose or allowing the camera to move.  It's very snug.  I am going back over the tripod to see if the head is slipping when vertical?  

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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