Majority prefer Apple's Aperture

[jerryrock]

http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9875221-3...g=2547-1_3-0-20

A CNET poll posted today by Stephen Shankland indicates that out of 5227 people that responded, 63.8% prefer Apple's Aperture compared to 36.2% that prefer Adobe Lightroom.

I wonder how much of this reaction has to do with the release of Aperture 2.0?

[Schewe]

I wonder how much of this reaction has to do with the release of Aperture 2.0?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Or the fact that Apple posted a link to the story on their www.apple.com/startpage for Feb 22nd, 2008?

See: [a href=\"http://photoshopnews.com/2008/02/22/cnet-aperturelightroom-poll-skewed/]CNET Aperture/Lightroom Poll Skewed?[/url]

Just saying....

:~)

[Paul Sumi]

Self-selecting polls like this one are always suspect, and shouldn't be considered statistically valid.  Jeff's link also points out a way how the results can be skewed.

To loosely quote Mark Twain, "there are lies, damn lies and statistics."  As one who uses statistical information for sales purposes, I can definitely attest to that.

Paul

[jerryrock]

CNET Poll update:

6535 polled

64.3%  prefer Apple's Aperture
35.7%  prefer Adobe Lightroom

The poll was significant enough for Mr. Schewe to address in his Photoshop News article where he cries foul play and urges fans to vote for Lightroom. (article response)


dooode

[Schewe]

Mr. Shewe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176901\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ya know, at some point, assuming you actually wish to be addressing me, ya might want to learn how to spell my name correctly dooode...ain't that hard...it's spelled the way it is in my screen name.

And just to be sure, it wasn't till I discovered that Apple placed the story on their main /startpage that I bothered to write about it a 2nd time. And no, it ain't like I think the poll is significant. I actually think the whole thing is hilarious!

[digitaldog]

News flash. Just saw a poll that said more people eat at (and prefer) McDonalds than the French Laundry in Napa. When is Keller going to learn how to make a decent burger!

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

I have just conducted a poll of Windows users who use either Aperture or Lightroom, and, astonishingly, 100% of those queried preferred Lightroom!

Now, where can I publish my results?  

[jerryrock]

I have just conducted a poll of Windows users who use either Aperture or Lightroom, and, astonishingly, 100% of those queried preferred Lightroom!

Now, where can I publish my results?   
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How about the French Laundry in Napa!

[Guillermo Luijk]

I have more info, a vast (100% population coverage) poll has just finished at my home. After asking all those living here whether they prefer LR or Aperture, the answer was DCRAW.

[Raw shooter]

http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9875221-3...g=2547-1_3-0-20

A CNET poll posted today by Stephen Shankland indicates that out of 5227 people that responded, 63.8% prefer Apple's Aperture compared to 36.2% that prefer Adobe Lightroom.

I wonder how much of this reaction has to do with the release of Aperture 2.0?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Most of my Mac friends do use Aperture.  Even version 1.
Whenever we get together, I watch then work in what appears to be a fine application. Although I prefer Bridge/ACR for my workflow, it does seem the majority of Mac users her on LL seem to use Lightroom.

I would love to see a poll here on LL to see what all the users (Windows/Mac) use as their usual Workflow; with Aperture, Lightroom, and Bridge/ACR as the three choices.

[jerryrock]

Most of my Mac friends do use Aperture.  Even version 1.
Whenever we get together, I watch then work in what appears to be a fine application. Although I prefer Bridge/ACR for my workflow, it does seem the majority of Mac users her on LL seem to use Lightroom.

I would love to see a poll here on LL to see what all the users (Windows/Mac) use as their usual Workflow; with Aperture, Lightroom, and Bridge/ACR as the three choices.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Applications like Aperture and Lightroom are in a league of their own combining data asset management with  an array of other features for image manipulation. They support tethered shooting and are idea for studio work or managing large image libraries.

I am a loyal Adobe user and have been using Photoshop since version 1. I even beta tested Lightroom in early 2006 but was frustrated waiting for the product release.  In the interim I switched from PC to an intel based MacPro and incorporated Aperture in my workflow.  This filled the void of a fast image processor while waiting for the universal binary version of Photoshop to be released. I never had a need to go back to Lightroom. The release of Apple Aperture 2.0 definitely puts this product ahead of the Adobe counterpart.


I do agree that polls (and statistics) can be manipulated to reflect just about anything.  The real data is in the number of product purchased.  This is the true measure of product success, isn't it? It boils down to the almighty dollar and how many each product can produce.

[Samotano]

[...]
I do agree that polls (and statistics) can be manipulated to reflect just about anything.  The real data is in the number of product purchased.  This is the true measure of product success, isn't it? It boils down to the almighty dollar and how many each product can produce.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[...]
I do agree that polls (and statistics) can be manipulated to reflect just about anything.  The real data is in the number of product purchased.  This is the true measure of product success, isn't it? It boils down to the almighty dollar and how many each product can produce.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unfortunately, too often polls and their results are conducted by unqualified people to satisfy a curiosity or, worse, to achieve some marketing goals.  Statistics are hard to manipulate, the way you design your "poll" isn't.  

The truth is that a well done poll is very complex to design.  Some posters have already ironically pointed to some obvious problems.  Consider also:
-What do they mean by better? (faster? more plugins? more stable? sleeker interface?)
-Who are the people voting? Are they predominantly Mac folks? Pc? Linux?
-How long has Aperture been on the market? How long has Lightroom been on the market?

Also do we want to ignore the large population of pirated Lightrooom/Aperture users?

Sometime lack of evidence is better than bad evidence...

[papa v2.0]

News flash. Just saw a poll that said more people eat at (and prefer) McDonalds than the French Laundry in Napa. When is Keller going to learn how to make a decent burger!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And we all know how crap a macdonalds burger is!

[pss]

now, a day later and more 3000 answers the statistics are pretty much the same...no conspiracies, no stolen ballots...not sure why this is so upsetting to some people anyway...i have used LR exclusively and now switched to aperture because 2.0 offers more FOR ME...both are very capable and i am sure LR2.0 will be equal and probably pull ahead in some regard....the best thing is that we have 2 products competing...means more features and a lower price for all...

that said , i am still amazed by those numbers...i am amazed how many people are switching to macs! i think that this is an indication for that....and cnet is not really a maccentric site afaik.....and everybody on a mac should really have a close look at aperture 2.0...one feature that LR will never have is the systemwide integration with ilife and .mac....and some of those things make my life a LOT easier....and it will only get better...

[Schewe]

cnet is not really a maccentric site afaik.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177105\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly...just how many Mac users would have found this poll if Apple hadn't placed the story and a link to the poll on their Feb 22nd /startpage?

[Samotano]

now, a day later and more 3000 answers the statistics are pretty much the same...no conspiracies, no stolen ballots...not sure why this is so upsetting to some people anyway...i have used LR exclusively and now switched to aperture because 2.0 offers more FOR ME...both are very capable and i am sure LR2.0 will be equal and probably pull ahead in some regard....the best thing is that we have 2 products competing...means more features and a lower price for all...

that said , i am still amazed by those numbers...i am amazed how many people are switching to macs! i think that this is an indication for that....and cnet is not really a maccentric site afaik.....and everybody on a mac should really have a close look at aperture 2.0...one feature that LR will never have is the systemwide integration with ilife and .mac....and some of those things make my life a LOT easier....and it will only get better...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177105\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't want to start a debate on this, and I am sure anyone who has evaluated both products have made their decisions wisely.  The point though is another one.  Those garbage pools like the one mentioned in this post, distort the reality, and people such as yourself are led to believe that one software is significantly better than the other.  While it may well be the case (once we define what "better" means), I cannot even start to write how unscientific this poll is.  

You mention better systemwide integration of Aperture.  Now that's certainly a valuable aspect and one that has way more value than the poll.  

I can tell you that the results in that poll won't change, but simply stabilize.  I also know that they represent a distorted, skewed, un-representative, homogeneous, biased portion of the population of LR/Aperture users.

[jerryrock]

Exactly...just how many Mac users would have found this poll if Apple hadn't placed the story and a link to the poll on their Feb 22nd /startpage?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I found the poll from the link in your article!

[gunnar1]

Copied from Cnet:

What's with the phoney poll?: reader comment from walterny
Posted on: February 23, 2008, 4:19 PM PST
Story: Poll: Which is better, Aperture or Lightroom?

I found myself a bit bored yesterday so was reading various web pages. My home page is Apples start page. One of the links is to a CNET "review" of an Apple photographic software product vs an Adobe equivalent product.

http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9875221-3...dht&tag=nl.e703

Titled "Which is better: Aperture or Lightroom?" it states:

"That’s what Stephen Shankland (c|net news) wants to know, and he’d like your help. “With the new Aperture 2 now available and Lightroom just celebrating its first birthday, I thought it opportune to survey readers. What would you buy? What would you advise somebody else?” The polls are open."

So I clicked it and read the review. And noticed the poll. I'm not a user of either software. I noticed that Apple was ahead 64.3% to Adobe's 35.7% with some 2000 plus votes cast. I was feeling mischievous and voted for Adobe, then looked at the results. I also realized that I could vote over and over. So I did. Some 350 times. And all for Adobe. But the strange thing was that while I saw the vote count rise slowly, the percentages of Apple and Adobe remained the same. And I kept refreshing the poll results to see a trend in how the number of votes increased. It was always in a defined time frame. I checked later on that night and noticed that with over 4000 votes there was only 1/10th of a percent difference in the results than earlier in the day. Now it was 64.4% to 35.6%.

I just found myself sitting here today (this afternoon, a day later) and looked at the link again. And strangely enough, today with over 6000 plus votes (three times as many as yesterday), the percentages of Apple to Adobe are exactly the same as they were yesterday give or take one tenth of a percent again. Now 64.2% to 35.8%. Statistically that is an amazing coincidence. And I also noticed that no matter how you vote, the count mysteriously increases by one vote every 10 to 20 seconds, yet the percentages are amazingly similar in over 24 hours of viewing. Now at 7:30pm a day later, it's 64.4% to 35.6%. Statistically it's impossible for that number to remain less than a percent different, let alone less than a tenth of a percent than it was over 24 hours ago. In the marketing industry this is called Astroturfing. Look it up and see that this is an ad disguised as a legit poll. Hint: the HTML for the web page. So is it a real poll because mathematics says it is not? I notified theconsumerist.com of this mystery.

[Paul Sumi]

I was feeling mischievous and voted for Adobe, then looked at the results. I also realized that I could vote over and over. So I did. Some 350 times.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oldtime Chicago-style machine politics is alive and well on the Internet.  Vote early and often!    

I'm wondering if they're logging IPs and tossing out "extra" votes within a certain time frame from that IP.  It's what I'd do to help keep a poll like this legit.

Paul

[BernardLanguillier]

I have just conducted a poll of Windows users who use either Aperture or Lightroom, and, astonishingly, 100% of those queried preferred Lightroom!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you saying that some people still haven't seen the light and migrated to OSX?

Cheers,
Bernard