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Author Topic: z3100 current status of roller marks?  (Read 78473 times)

stevenh

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2008, 09:50:25 pm »

The tech that I was finally able to get through to seemed to understand after he checked with someone else.

He was going to order 4 parts to send to my service person in the area. (des moines).

The first person on line seemed to have trouble understanding me and eventually created a new work order then transferred me to a technician which seemed to understand a lot more about the design jets z series than most. this one was named kevin.

we'll see how it goes when the service person contacts me.



Quote
That's unbeliveable. I bet there is a debate going onside HP about the ultimate fix for these fiber gloss papers, and this part design as well as paper design. 

john
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Colorwave

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2008, 12:12:48 am »

I have a minor update on my struggle with HP:  I was told this morning by my field tech that HP is not aware of any problems with pinch roller marks and does not have a redesign in the works.  Since he is generally a pretty noncommittal guy, this didn't come from the field tech.  HP will, however, try to figure out what issue I'm having, if I send them a sample print on HP paper, as I'm the only person worldwide that has reported this issue.

Meanwhile, back on Earth, I paid a trip to Calumet to discuss (and hopefully photograph) their new rollers in their 24" Z3100.  My contact there was a little nonplussed by my asking him about the rollers again, since I didn't buy the printer from him, and didn't seem keen on my taking a photo.  He did, however, graciously agree to email me the Word document he was sent with roller installation instructions.  It is obviously an internal document from Barcelona and could not look more pre-release than it does, but it has details of the whole installation process.  I was also told that the rollers were sent directly from Spain to the US office that is responsible for printers in San Diego, then on to Calumet.  

I'm willing to give HP the benefit of the doubt regarding their intentionally lying about the roller development, and can easily imagine that the techs at the first and second levels are not aware of anything in the pre-release pipeline.  The part about being the first to report this issue, though . . .

Thankfully, I was also given the names of three HP employees with knowledge of the new design (Jacint Humet, Joe Sandoval and Lee Kundal, if that helps anyone else's case).  I have no idea what their jobs titles are, but forwarded the installation instructions and these three names to my field tech to pursue further.  I'm hoping this will provide a little traction in this odd corporate dance.  For some possibly misguided reason, I'm keeping the faith.

-Ron H.

PS:  The same person from Calumet suggested that I pursue this through the dealer that sold me my printer, on the sales side vs. through tech channels.  I've had no contact with my dealer whatsoever, and it never occurred to me to go through them, but he said that he got results by contacting the National Sales Manager for HP, so I will try a multi-pronged attack from here on.
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deanwork

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2008, 09:24:59 am »

So did the guy at Calument say his is utlizing the Z for fiber gloss work without any roller marks?


john
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 09:17:33 pm by deanwork »
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Jim Cole

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2008, 09:34:16 am »

Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.

While reading the new docs in the Z3100 Wiki from HP regarding "working with other commercial papers" I see they now reference a paper preset for "Fine Art Barite" paper. It is highlighted in orange on the reference table for which preset to use with which third party paper. However, following HP's own links for downloading new paper presets, this one isn't there.

I find it interesting that they have developed a preset for all these baryta papers, especially since my difficulty on getting tech support to replace my rollers revolved around these papers and haveing issues with non-supported non-HP papers.

Anyone been able to find this new preset for the Barite papers yet?

Jim
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stevenh

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2008, 09:59:20 am »

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PS:  The same person from Calumet suggested that I pursue this through the dealer that sold me my printer, on the sales side vs. through tech channels.  I've had no contact with my dealer whatsoever, and it never occurred to me to go through them, but he said that he got results by contacting the National Sales Manager for HP, so I will try a multi-pronged attack from here on.
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well, since i went directly through HP's educational division that may not help much

i have another visit from the field tech who says he has a new set of rollers to replace the ones he said were slightly bent on mine. we'll see if they are the new design or not.

is it possible to get a copy of the "barcelona document" to show him?
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Colorwave

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2008, 10:52:10 am »

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So did the guy at Calument say his is utlizing the Z for fiber gloss work without any roller marks? If so that is good enough for me and I can proceed.
john
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John- I think we are in agreement about the political side of this issue.
Regarding the new rollers, he showed me a dozen or so challenging stocks he had printed on, with no marks on anything.  Very encouraging to see.
stevenh-  Here's the document.  Don't laugh when you see it.  Many months ago I was sent another unofficial document from HP about oiling the printer that was also surprisingly crude.  The part about the cap of a pen is seat of the pants engineering at it's finest.
-Ron H.
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Jim Cole

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2008, 12:46:05 pm »

Update: Ok, so here's the scoop. Not good. Roger shows up with a pinch wheel assembly for a Designjet 130 instead of the replacement rollers for the Z3100. No wonder he was told they were the latest and greatest since they were for the wrong printer. He calls his tech center in Seattle and they don't know anything about new rollers for the Z3100.

Thanks to Colorwave's posting of the Installation Instructions this morning (good timing, by the way) Roger told his Seattle tech guy that he was looking at the HP instructions to install the new softer, tan rollers so there must be new parts. The Seattle tech guy would not escalate the issue without all the normal steps to reproduce the issue and then the sending in of samples. The call was over.

Roger knows the main guy at the Boise tech center where all the training occurs and who basically are the front line guys for all development after things come down from Barcelona. He will call him this afternoon and try to get the ball rolling. Roger left with a color copy of the Pinch Roller Install doc,

As to the star wheel motor, that part he had with him, but there were no installation instructions available. There are supposedly already electrical connections and a mounting place for the motor inside the printer on the left side (according to Seattle) and the motor is designed to lift the star wheel assembly slightly as the print nears the end of its travel to eliminate start wheel marks on the trailing edge of the print. Roger didn't install it this trip as he wants to find specific instructions before he attempts it, and maybe try it out on another printer first. This didn't bother me as I haven't had star wheel issues since the assembly was replaced a couple of months ago.

It may be another week or two until the pinch roller saga can continue.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Cole,Jan 15 2008, 07:34 AM
Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:46:41 pm by Jim Cole »
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Geoff Wittig

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2008, 12:51:38 pm »

stevenh- Here's the document. Don't laugh when you see it. Many months ago I was sent another unofficial document from HP about oiling the printer that was also surprisingly crude. The part about the cap of a pen is seat of the pants engineering at it's finest.
-Ron H.

Hilarious!

On the other hand, it looks simple enough that I might want to try it. I'd feel guilty dragging a tech all the way out to my home in the boondocks to replace such a simple part. Mayby HP could...you know...just mail the part to users?

Just sayin.  
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:54:09 pm by Geoff Wittig »
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deanwork

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2008, 06:37:49 pm »

You guys are scaring me, chill out.

john







Quote from: Jim Cole,Jan 15 2008, 12:46 PM
Update: Ok, so here's the scoop. Not good. Roger shows up with a pinch wheel assembly for a Designjet 130 instead of the replacement rollers for the Z3100. No wonder he was told they were the latest and greatest since they were for the wrong printer. He calls his tech center in Seattle and they don't know anything about new rollers for the Z3100.

Thanks to Colorwave's posting of the Installation Instructions this morning (good timing, by the way) Roger told his Seattle tech guy that he was looking at the HP instructions to install the new softer, tan rollers so there must be new parts. The Seattle tech guy would not escalate the issue without all the normal steps to reproduce the issue and then the sending in of samples. The call was over.

Roger knows the main guy at the Boise tech center where all the training occurs and who basically are the front line guys for all development after things come down from Barcelona. He will call him this afternoon and try to get the ball rolling. Roger left with a color copy of the Pinch Roller Install doc,

As to the star wheel motor, that part he had with him, but there were no installation instructions available. There are supposedly already electrical connections and a mounting place for the motor inside the printer on the left side (according to Seattle) and the motor is designed to lift the star wheel assembly slightly as the print nears the end of its travel to eliminate start wheel marks on the trailing edge of the print. Roger didn't install it this trip as he wants to find specific instructions before he attempts it, and maybe try it out on another printer first. This didn't bother me as I haven't had star wheel issues since the assembly was replaced a couple of months ago.

It may be another week or two until the pinch roller saga can continue.

Jim

Quote from: Jim Cole,Jan 15 2008, 07:34 AM
Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.
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« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 11:42:19 pm by deanwork »
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Jim Cole

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2008, 06:49:56 pm »

John,

The intent of this post was not to scare anyone away from the Z3100. I am only experiencing roller marks on the new baryta papers, which are only in expermental mode right now. All my production work is on HP Pro Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art which give me outstanding results. I am truly happy with the performance of this printer for my photographic work. HP's tech support system is having a problem communicating the existence of these rollers within the company.

The fact that HP is even responding to issues related to 3rd party papers that we would like to use is quite extraordinary. If I have to wait a while for the new rollers, I'm fine with that.

I have had overall an outstanding experience with this printer. There have been a few rough spots with the tech support (showing up twice with the wrong parts), but the issues were dealt with quickly and professionally.

I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.

Jim
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Colorwave

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2008, 07:05:11 pm »

Jim-
Frustrating as it is at times, I'm still on the HP bandwagon and happy with my printer overall, so I second what Jim just said.  There are nagging issues and HP has some odd ideas at times, but you can't quarrel with the output or the overall design.  When the roller mark problem is solved (which does not effect most paper stocks), I will have no significant remaining beefs with HP.
Remember that very few people post when everything is going well, and this is an entirely new design, not an evolutionary product like Epson's.
-Ron H.
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deanwork

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2008, 09:07:52 pm »

I appreciate your positive attitue. I'm not sure I'd be as patient as you guys with not being able to work with media that is demanded of cleints.
john





Quote
Jim-
Frustrating as it is at times, I'm still on the HP bandwagon and happy with my printer overall, so I second what Jim just said.  There are nagging issues and HP has some odd ideas at times, but you can't quarrel with the output or the overall design.  When the roller mark problem is solved (which does not effect most paper stocks), I will have no significant remaining beefs with HP.
Remember that very few people post when everything is going well, and this is an entirely new design, not an evolutionary product like Epson's.
-Ron H.
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 09:26:44 pm by deanwork »
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Ernst Dinkla

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2008, 06:03:15 am »

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John,

All my production work is on HP Pro Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art which give me outstanding results. I am truly happy with the performance of this printer for my photographic work. HP's tech support system is having a problem communicating the existence of these rollers within the company.

The fact that HP is even responding to issues related to 3rd party papers that we would like to use is quite extraordinary. If I have to wait a while for the new rollers, I'm fine with that.

I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.

Jim
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Jim,

Right now I have the same approach. The Hahnemuhle 44" Photo Rag 308, German Etching 308 and Photo Rag Bright White 310 go without problems. The Aquarella which is soft too. No problems with the Premium ID RC versions, no problems with canvas. It works for the papers I use and it can only get better for the fiber/baryta later on.

So far HP helps people to use third party media with their information on that subject like the recent PDF versions including a Baryta media preset while HP doesn't have it in their own catalog. The last utility upgrade with the ink limitation settings for media presets, the possibility to have more calibrated custom media presets based on one HP media preset, etc. In line with that is this hardware upgrade.

It is a pity that so much money is going down the drain because the communication isn't working but the intentions to get it better are there.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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denis_

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2008, 06:40:43 am »

I've had the new rollers installed for a few weeks now for testing and I've had no roller marks since then.
HP/barcelona is aware of the communication problems in the US about this issue and hopefully things will improve soon.

denis
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Geoff Wittig

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« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2008, 12:40:42 pm »

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I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.

Jim
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Same here. I have experienced roller marks on one paper type that I have rejected on æsthetic grounds anyway. A wide range of other papers work fine for me. My experience with HP service has also been quite positive. The ability to switch from matte to photo black on the fly and the quality of quad-black output are outstanding. I would never go back to Epson.

As always, YMMV.
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stevenh

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2008, 03:27:21 pm »

hi denis

do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side.  he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals

steve h

Quote
I've had the new rollers installed for a few weeks now for testing and I've had no roller marks since then.
HP/barcelona is aware of the communication problems in the US about this issue and hopefully things will improve soon.

denis
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 03:28:43 pm by stevenh »
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deanwork

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« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2008, 09:16:02 pm »

What media are you using? The Innova Gloss Fiber? Ilford Gold?


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hi denis

do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side.  he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals

steve h
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denis_

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« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2008, 09:13:54 am »

I'm affraid I don't have any part number, they were prototypes installed by an engineer from barcelona.
They're brownish and soft but I can't even say if that's the color of the production ones.

denis

Quote
hi denis

do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side.  he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals

steve h
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denis_

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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2008, 09:24:43 am »

Innova ultra-smooth gloss and semi-matte + fuji baryte.

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What media are you using? The Innova Gloss Fiber? Ilford Gold?
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Mary K

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z3100 current status of roller marks?
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2008, 10:51:53 am »

I have been promised the new rollers since November, and in December a technician came to my place to replace the old rollers with the new design.  However, the rollers he had with him were the originals, so he didn't replace them after calling HP to confirm that they would not resolve the problem.

I talked to HP tech support today, and the technician told me that there were no new rollers, and that HP had no intention of making new rollers to resolve the problem.  He said that the technician should have installed the rollers that he had with him in December, and that should resolve the problem.  He lined up a technician to replace the original rollers with another set of original rollers -- this is tentatively set to happen tomorrow.  I asked him what I should do if this doesn't correct the problem with roll marks on glossy paper, and he said that in that case they would send someone out to replace the rollers again.

When I told him that I had seen photographs of the new rollers on the Internet, he said that they couldn't have been a HP design, as HP is not working on new rollers for the Z3100.

Mary
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