Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: stevenh on December 04, 2007, 09:58:16 pm
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i have searched but haven't seen any updates or real fixes re. the subtle roller marks on the 3100. visible from an angle on glossy but straight on when using hann. smooth fine art paper.
seems to me that i read on here a bit ago that a fix was gong to be available in dec?
unfortunately i can't give any work to the galleries or museums with this marking on it.
thanks for any and all information
steven
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HP tech support told me that there will be a retroactive hardware fix at no charge. They said the parts will be available in late December or early January.
Mary
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HP tech support told me that there will be a retroactive hardware fix at no charge. They said the parts will be available in late December or early January.
Mary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I walked into Calumet yesterday and was asking about their paper testing with some of the new gloss paper types and asked the salesperson how they were faring with transport roller marks. The guy said that they had no issues at all, since they had switched out the rollers with the new design. He showed them to me and the are now brown, slightly softer and slightly larger in diameter. I'm looking forward to seeing this solution implemented across the board and crossing this off my list of issues. Sooner, rather than later, is fine by me.
-Ron H.
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Excellent! thanks.
now all i have to do is make sure i can get through to an HP rep who knows about the fix...
thanks again.
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I walked into Calumet yesterday and was asking about their paper testing with some of the new gloss paper types and asked the salesperson how they were faring with transport roller marks. The guy said that they had no issues at all, since they had switched out the rollers with the new design. He showed them to me and the are now brown, slightly softer and slightly larger in diameter.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi -Ron H.,
This is very good news. I was getting worried (more worried than usual).
I was hoping you can tell me what kind of papers Calumet was testing, if you know.
I think my printer's in the que for this, but I need to double check.
Any light you can shed is appreciated.
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
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Hi -Ron H.,
This is very good news. I was getting worried (more worried than usual).
I was hoping you can tell me what kind of papers Calumet was testing, if you know.
I think my printer's in the que for this, but I need to double check.
Any light you can shed is appreciated.
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This was an in store employee at Calumet SF that was doing his own testing on their 24" Z3100. He was in the process of running everything in sight through it, although they don't yet have Hahnemuhle Bamboo or Epson Exhibition Fiber yet. He did manage to get his hands on some Harman Gloss (although they aren't carrying it yet) and had no marking on it. He was about to run some Moab Colorado, which I'm interested in, but hadn't yet when I was there. I need to stop back by there when things are saner for me and really look through their sample prints when I have more time.
One more funny fact. He said that they had installed this in their printer and two client's machines and that it is an easy, user installable upgrade for anybody with a little technical know how. It does, however, require a very specialized tool to install: the cap to a Bic pen. I don't know the world pen market very well, but I hope this isn't a problem for Ernst and our European Z contingent!
-Ron H.
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I don't know the world pen market very well, but I hope this isn't a problem for Ernst and our European Z contingent!
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158701\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think Bic is a French company.
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Hello,
Do we have to pay for this "upgrade"/ fix? HP has already replaced the unit for me once, but it was with the second generation fix not this newest one.
thank you
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I think Bic is a French company.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Whew!
Regarding cost, it is only $19.95 plus shipping and handling.
Joking aside, it is a free upgrade. I just don't know the particulars of timing or how it will be implemented. The parts that were replaced for Calumet were shipped direct from Spain to HP in San Diego, who forwarded them to Calumet to install themselves.
-Ron H.
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Whew!
Regarding cost, it is only $19.95 plus shipping and handling.
Joking aside, it is a free upgrade. I just don't know the particulars of timing or how it will be implemented. The parts that were replaced for Calumet were shipped direct from Spain to HP in San Diego, who forwarded them to Calumet to install themselves.
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158730\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's great news. I look forward to getting the kit and installing it.
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HP tech support told me that there will be a retroactive hardware fix at no charge. They said the parts will be available in late December or early January.
Mary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I called HP Support today to inquire about the status of the new rollers since I had no luck printing on the new Harman FB Gloss. My first level support person, Jen, put me on hold for about 4 minutes and then came back and said I would have to prove a roller mark issue on HP media to be eligible for the retrofit. I explained how the Z3100 was specifically designed to allow use of 3rd party papers and that I knew the rollers had been redesigned to accommodate the new FB glossy papers among others based on user feedback. She said "sorry, that's the policy" so I asked to be bumped to the next support level.
A few minutes later, James got on the phone and spouted the same line about only supporting HP media. We had a friendly discussion where I simply repeated the mantra "but the Z3100 was designed specifically to work with HP and 3rd party media" about 7 or 8 times after which he agreed that I could have the retrofit when it was available. It took a while, but he finally fessed up that it should be in a week or so. He agreed to give me a case number with notes to the effect that I was approved for the retrofit when I called in next time so I could avoid all the HP defenses against providing its customers with engineering improvements to the printer.
Don't take "No" for an answer, but stay friendly and calm if you have to deal with this.
Jim
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which number did you call? i have had mixed luck sometimes getting bounced around.
good advice, I also have found that keeping it friendly no matter how frustrating it gets tends to help on tech lines and in airports.
I called HP Support today to inquire about the status of the new rollers since I had no luck printing on the new Harman FB Gloss. My first level support person, Jen, put me on hold for about 4 minutes and then came back and said I would have to prove a roller mark issue on HP media to be eligible for the retrofit. I explained how the Z3100 was specifically designed to allow use of 3rd party papers and that I knew the rollers had been redesigned to accommodate the new FB glossy papers among others based on user feedback. She said "sorry, that's the policy" so I asked to be bumped to the next support level.
A few minutes later, James got on the phone and spouted the same line about only supporting HP media. We had a friendly discussion where I simply repeated the mantra "but the Z3100 was designed specifically to work with HP and 3rd party media" about 7 or 8 times after which he agreed that I could have the retrofit when it was available. It took a while, but he finally fessed up that it should be in a week or so. He agreed to give me a case number with notes to the effect that I was approved for the retrofit when I called in next time so I could avoid all the HP defenses against providing its customers with engineering improvements to the printer.
Don't take "No" for an answer, but stay friendly and calm if you have to deal with this.
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Steven,
1-800-474-6836. It seems they have changed the options since the last time I called a few months ago. They ask more questions, but you get to where you need to go on the first time.
Good luck,
Jim
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thanks jim.
Steven,
1-800-474-6836. It seems they have changed the options since the last time I called a few months ago. They ask more questions, but you get to where you need to go on the first time.
Good luck,
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Some time ago I heard that Italy was experimenting with a small shim like gadget that would be inserted by the end user one on each side of the printer to take a bit of pressure off of the rollers. Maybe this is that. Alan
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Well that was painless so far. asked me if i had ever used non hp paper. i said no since i haven't yet.
but i have a feeling that saying no to that question might have dodged a potential "bullet".
put me on hold for about 1 1/2 min. and came back asked if these where marks about the width of my finger or thumb. (yes) . told tell me they're sending a person out to replace the starwheels and the platten. i mentioned that i knew there was a problem and fix for the rollers as well he said he would have them work with those as well.
nice person.
whole call took about 5 minutes not counting the nice electronic lady who enthusiastically let me know that i was "doing great!" in answering her questions to direct me .
we'll see how it all turns out.
thanks for all your help here.
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Some time ago I heard that Italy was experimenting with a small shim like gadget that would be inserted by the end user one on each side of the printer to take a bit of pressure off of the rollers. Maybe this is that. Alan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nope, just slightly larger diameter pressure rollers made from a softer material.
-Ron H.
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Some time ago I heard that Italy was experimenting with a small shim like gadget that would be inserted by the end user one on each side of the printer to take a bit of pressure off of the rollers. Maybe this is that. Alan
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=158977\")
Unlikely solution as it would also reduce the friction on the transport axle and by that create transport length differences and banding. The solution must keep the right friction on the underside of the paper so the same total clamping power as before but give a better distributed and possibly reduced pressure on the top which is possible with slightly larger rolls that are also softer. I also thought that it would be better if the rolls could adjust their angle to the paper individually, the existing design doesn't give that freedom. I checked them some time ago to see whether I could make a solution myself but there isn't enough space to make the rolls thicker with a short soft tube and a roll that can't roll would be a disaster.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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HP tech support told me that there will be a retroactive hardware fix at no charge. They said the parts will be available in late December or early January.
Mary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi all!
The roller marks you are talking about - are they only on the front of the paper ar also at the back?
Reason to ask is: I tried printing double sided paper and I had roller marks on the already printed side after the second run.
Will the upgrade also fix this problem?
Thanks,
Clem
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well.... the tech made a house call. nice guy. we talked a lot about the problem. he looked at the prints and ran a few prints. he noticed that the marks got worse as you went up the page. also the edge of the marks almost looked like kind of water marks that had dried on a glass like a residue.
he changed out the starwheels and assembly since that was what HP had sent him. they had backordered the other parts.
he inspected the rollers and noticed that there was a slight curve in the rod. put everyting back together and reprinted.
no roller marks.
i ran a calibration test and got the marks again. i realized that brad (the tech) had turned off gloss enhance. so i turned it off as well and tried again. .... no marks.
so.... it seems as though the gloss enhancer is not drying fast enough and is accumulating? the rubber rollers are underneath the paper opposite the star wheels.
the small plastic rollers on top are before the print head and shouldn't affect the surface that way.
so.... i am thinking (for any HP folks on here...) that the problem may be the softness of the GE and drying time required of the GE?
this of course does not apply to those of us getting the marks on the fine art papers (mat surface) unless for some reason you are forgetting to turn off the GE.
just a thought...
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so.... i am thinking (for any HP folks on here...) that the problem may be the softness of the GE and drying time required of the GE?
this of course does not apply to those of us getting the marks on the fine art papers (mat surface) unless for some reason you are forgetting to turn off the GE.
just a thought...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=161118\")
I would think that the rollers are affecting the coating before printing and the GE is just revealing that surface alteration or even increasing it. Either because gloss usually shows texture more or because the surface differences created does allow the GE to be absorbed more on one spot than the other. I have this with some fiber papers with and without gloss enhancer and not with the art papers like PhotoRag that print fine. The RC papers with and without GE do no show it either.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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I had a HP engineer at my place last Thursday to replace the star wheel assembly on my Z3100 44" (it was damaged when a piece of cut paper jammed), and to replace the pick roller. Turns out that the pick roller they sent me was the same part number as the original, so we decided that there was no point in changing it. He called HP, and they told him that the revised part is not yet available.
Mary
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I had a HP engineer at my place last Thursday ....... He called HP, and they told him that the revised part is not yet available.
Mary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
which probably explains the backorder on one of the parts when the tech came to my place.
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I have just recieved a replacement priter after a 6 week nightmare (may relate on another post!). Can I easily tell if i have the new or old assembly with the new machine? It came with 50004 firmware and was brand new.
Thanks
Ric
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I have just recieved a replacement priter after a 6 week nightmare (may relate on another post!). Can I easily tell if i have the new or old assembly with the new machine? It came with 50004 firmware and was brand new.
Thanks
Ric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161557\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you are asking about the pinch rollers, the new ones are tan colored, and the old style are black.
-Ron
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just an update.
spoke to the online tech today to see if the work order had been closed. the visiting tech left the work order open so i guess he has decided to wait for the backordered part and then return.
the online tech seemed to be familiar with the problem. he suggested that in the meantime i use multiple pass which would give the GE extra time to dry. i told him i really didn't want to double my ink usage for a long time. i had already reset the drying time to max to no avail.
he seemed to be understanding and when i asked if i should call back next week, he suggested that i call late this week.
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If you are asking about the pinch rollers, the new ones are tan colored, and the old style are black.
-Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks- I will take a look
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I've got an update on HP's roller replacement policy:
Other people have reported that HP is doing a bit of stonewalling about replacing the rollers with the new design, but I just called about another problem I'm having (repeated printer crashes and 79-04 error messages), and mentioned that I'm also still having issues with marks on some papers. The tech support person asked if I was having issues with any HP papers and I said yes. He accepted my description of the problem with no issue and said that they will be installing them along with the other part that appears to be behind my crashing problem, and will install it all on Monday, Christmas Eve. I was prepared for a little resistance, but really got none. If I had said that I was only having the problem with non HP papers, I might have gotten a different response, but I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to order the new design.
I will report back with my experience, as soon as I can try it all out.
-Ron
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I look forward to hearing experiences with the new rollers from HP. I sincerely hope they work and HP will help users like myself.
I have black colored rollers which are presumably the older ones.
Here are my Z3100-24” paper experiences so far:
Epson Exhibition Fiber
Roller marks are present in 4/5 prints and on all calibration targets. The one good print was done with GE on, extended dry time and no added passes. All subsequent prints had the dreaded marks. Settings I have tried are Fine art Pearl (more ink) and Fine art Pearl (less ink) with and without gloss enhancer. Drying time and number of passes does not seem to make a difference but I have not tried all combinations as that would be very expensive. It seems like the new rollers will be essential to get the printer to produce consistent roller mark free output on this paper. Given the high cost of the paper I would not want to risk losing output from erratic printer behavior. It is my favorite paper so far for B&W (early days).
Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl
Gloss enhancer was on. Fine Art Pearl setting was used. Roller marks with roll fed paper if the paper passes by the roller more than once and at the beginning of the roll when there was more “drag” on the paper. The majority of the roll was printed without roller marks being a problem.
Epson Enhanced Matte
No roller marks
HP Premium Instant-dry Gloss
Standard HP recommended setting. Roller marks on initial print off the roll but no subsequent roller marks were seen.
Masoom (Toronto)
http://www.haiderimages.com/ (http://www.haiderimages.com/)
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So what happend?
john
I've got an update on HP's roller replacement policy:
Other people have reported that HP is doing a bit of stonewalling about replacing the rollers with the new design, but I just called about another problem I'm having (repeated printer crashes and 79-04 error messages), and mentioned that I'm also still having issues with marks on some papers. The tech support person asked if I was having issues with any HP papers and I said yes. He accepted my description of the problem with no issue and said that they will be installing them along with the other part that appears to be behind my crashing problem, and will install it all on Monday, Christmas Eve. I was prepared for a little resistance, but really got none. If I had said that I was only having the problem with non HP papers, I might have gotten a different response, but I was pleasantly surprised by how easy it was to order the new design.
I will report back with my experience, as soon as I can try it all out.
-Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162359\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm sad to report that my printer has been DOA since right before Christmas. The other, non paper transport related problem got worse, so now the printer crashes almost every time it is restarted. The faulty part is called a formatter, and it seems to be a circuit board that controls information input to the printer's CPU. The part that is needed is on backorder and is supposedly coming in next week. This is the first failure of HP's next day warranty repair for me, but a rather egregious one, in this case.
-Ron H.
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Ok, its well into January. Is HP delivering on the new rollers or not?
john
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Ok, its well into January. Is HP delivering on the new rollers or not?
john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Word is that my rollers are already in the hands of my local HP technician and would already be installed in my printer if my formatter board that makes the printer unusable was available. It is supposed to be in on Thursday, so I will report back then. I've seen them installed in another printer too, so they are more than just talk, at least.
-Ron H.
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Word is that my rollers are already in the hands of my local HP technician and would already be installed in my printer if my formatter board that makes the printer unusable was available. It is supposed to be in on Thursday, so I will report back then. I've seen them installed in another printer too, so they are more than just talk, at least.
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
just to clarify, what color are the old rollers, and what are the new? Could you post the part # when he replaces them, pretty please!! : )
Chris
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Update: Roller Assembly
I got home from an all day engagement last night to find my HP tech support guy's business card stuck in my front door. We had talked three times while he tried to figure out the right part for the new rollers, but he never called back to make an appointment. He drove from Phoeniz to Flagstaff (2 1/2 hours one way) with no appointment. I called him when I got home and he said that he guessed he screwed up. He confirmed though, that he had the new rollers in his possession, along with a newly designed motor to add to the star-wheel assembly to reduce the pressure of the that assembly on the media. He tells me that this motor does not exist on my current printer. This will be interesting when he can get back up here next Tuesday.
I'll keep you updated.
Jim
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Thanks, Jim. I look forward to your next update. If it works I guess I'll be calling HP.
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Thanks, Jim. I look forward to your next update. If it works I guess I'll be calling HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Since the starwheels rotate passively and do not have a drive shaft, per se, I'm really curious about this motor as well . . .
I'll be sure to ask the tech who is visiting me today, if this isn't a part of my new roller package being installed.
-Ron H.
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I promised to report back after my tech visit, and unfortunately, I got the worst possible news today regarding the new rollers.
The new pinch rollers that the tech guy brought today, that were ordered as "new design" rollers by the phone tech support person who placed my repair order, were the exact same ones that the machine came with. Quite honestly, I'm baffled by all of this.
When I first opened my case with this issue, the first level tech said that there were no known paper transport issues with the pinch rollers and no new design. After I told him that I had seen the new design and knew of three printers that had the new design installed, he checked with someone in the second level and completely changed his story. He said that there indeed was a new design, and placed an order for it.
Today, after catching my field tech up on all of this, he called HP and was told by first and second level support that none of what I told him was right. No new design, no new part number, no known reports of paper marking from pinch rollers. Since I was adamant that I had seen these parts with my own eyes, he pressed the issue and was told that HP Global Support would look into it. He is expecting a call from them at some point.
In an effort to be proactive, I called about this as well. Pierre, who was helping me, asked the three top second level reps about this and all of them say that they know nothing of any of this. Until someone from the HP Global support division gets back to us, the only thing that Pierre and I can surmise is that this is still a beta fix and not 100% official. I called the tech from Calumet who showed me his new rollers and has installed at least two others, my original source, but he says that he got the rollers from HP, but didn't notice what the part numbers were for the new design. Since I didn't buy my printer from him, he was not willing to call HP for me to see if he could get a straight answer himself.
So until someone else from HP calls back with different information, it looks the possible scenarios that would explain this are: I was hallucinating, I'm lying about what I saw, or the guy from Calumet made his own from parts in his back room and lied when he said they came from HP. Oh yeah, or HP is confused and/or lying themselves . . .
Frustrated, very frustrated,
Ron H.
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Well now, I'm even more curious as to what pinch roller assembly the rep will bring out to me next week. When I pressed him on making sure that he had the right part on last night's phone call, he said it was the the "new design" and was the "latest and greatest".
I guess we'll know something on Tuesday.
Jim
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Don't worry, be happy.
The new pinch rollers that the tech guy brought today, that were ordered as "new design" rollers by the phone tech support person who placed my repair order, were the exact same ones that the machine came with. Quite honestly, I'm baffled by all of this.
When I first opened my case with this issue, the first level tech said that there were no known paper transport issues with the pinch rollers and no new design. After I told him that I had seen the new design and knew of three printers that had the new design installed, he checked with someone in the second level and completely changed his story. He said that there indeed was a new design, and placed an order for it.
Today, after catching my field tech up on all of this, he called HP and was told by first and second level support that none of what I told him was right. No new design, no new part number, no known reports of paper marking from pinch rollers. Since I was adamant that I had seen these parts with my own eyes, he pressed the issue and was told that HP Global Support would look into it. He is expecting a call from them at some point.
In an effort to be proactive, I called about this as well. Pierre, who was helping me, asked the three top second level reps about this and all of them say that they know nothing of any of this. Until someone from the HP Global support division gets back to us, the only thing that Pierre and I can surmise is that this is still a beta fix and not 100% official. I called the tech from Calumet who showed me his new rollers and has installed at least two others, my original source, but he says that he got the rollers from HP, but didn't notice what the part numbers were for the new design. Since I didn't buy my printer from him, he was not willing to call HP for me to see if he could get a straight answer himself.
So until someone else from HP calls back with different information, it looks the possible scenarios that would explain this are: I was hallucinating, I'm lying about what I saw, or the guy from Calumet made his own from parts in his back room and lied when he said they came from HP. Oh yeah, or HP is confused and/or lying themselves . . .
Frustrated, very frustrated,
Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166595\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
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The tech that I was finally able to get through to seemed to understand after he checked with someone else.
He was going to order 4 parts to send to my service person in the area. (des moines).
The first person on line seemed to have trouble understanding me and eventually created a new work order then transferred me to a technician which seemed to understand a lot more about the design jets z series than most. this one was named kevin.
we'll see how it goes when the service person contacts me.
That's unbeliveable. I bet there is a debate going onside HP about the ultimate fix for these fiber gloss papers, and this part design as well as paper design.
john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166763\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I have a minor update on my struggle with HP: I was told this morning by my field tech that HP is not aware of any problems with pinch roller marks and does not have a redesign in the works. Since he is generally a pretty noncommittal guy, this didn't come from the field tech. HP will, however, try to figure out what issue I'm having, if I send them a sample print on HP paper, as I'm the only person worldwide that has reported this issue.
Meanwhile, back on Earth, I paid a trip to Calumet to discuss (and hopefully photograph) their new rollers in their 24" Z3100. My contact there was a little nonplussed by my asking him about the rollers again, since I didn't buy the printer from him, and didn't seem keen on my taking a photo. He did, however, graciously agree to email me the Word document he was sent with roller installation instructions. It is obviously an internal document from Barcelona and could not look more pre-release than it does, but it has details of the whole installation process. I was also told that the rollers were sent directly from Spain to the US office that is responsible for printers in San Diego, then on to Calumet.
I'm willing to give HP the benefit of the doubt regarding their intentionally lying about the roller development, and can easily imagine that the techs at the first and second levels are not aware of anything in the pre-release pipeline. The part about being the first to report this issue, though . . .
Thankfully, I was also given the names of three HP employees with knowledge of the new design (Jacint Humet, Joe Sandoval and Lee Kundal, if that helps anyone else's case). I have no idea what their jobs titles are, but forwarded the installation instructions and these three names to my field tech to pursue further. I'm hoping this will provide a little traction in this odd corporate dance. For some possibly misguided reason, I'm keeping the faith.
-Ron H.
PS: The same person from Calumet suggested that I pursue this through the dealer that sold me my printer, on the sales side vs. through tech channels. I've had no contact with my dealer whatsoever, and it never occurred to me to go through them, but he said that he got results by contacting the National Sales Manager for HP, so I will try a multi-pronged attack from here on.
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So did the guy at Calument say his is utlizing the Z for fiber gloss work without any roller marks?
john
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Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.
While reading the new docs in the Z3100 Wiki from HP regarding "working with other commercial papers" I see they now reference a paper preset for "Fine Art Barite" paper. It is highlighted in orange on the reference table for which preset to use with which third party paper. However, following HP's own links for downloading new paper presets, this one isn't there.
I find it interesting that they have developed a preset for all these baryta papers, especially since my difficulty on getting tech support to replace my rollers revolved around these papers and haveing issues with non-supported non-HP papers.
Anyone been able to find this new preset for the Barite papers yet?
Jim
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PS: The same person from Calumet suggested that I pursue this through the dealer that sold me my printer, on the sales side vs. through tech channels. I've had no contact with my dealer whatsoever, and it never occurred to me to go through them, but he said that he got results by contacting the National Sales Manager for HP, so I will try a multi-pronged attack from here on.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167238\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
well, since i went directly through HP's educational division that may not help much
i have another visit from the field tech who says he has a new set of rollers to replace the ones he said were slightly bent on mine. we'll see if they are the new design or not.
is it possible to get a copy of the "barcelona document" to show him?
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So did the guy at Calument say his is utlizing the Z for fiber gloss work without any roller marks? If so that is good enough for me and I can proceed.
john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167306\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
John- I think we are in agreement about the political side of this issue.
Regarding the new rollers, he showed me a dozen or so challenging stocks he had printed on, with no marks on anything. Very encouraging to see.
stevenh- Here's the document. Don't laugh when you see it. Many months ago I was sent another unofficial document from HP about oiling the printer that was also surprisingly crude. The part about the cap of a pen is seat of the pants engineering at it's finest.
-Ron H.
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Update: Ok, so here's the scoop. Not good. Roger shows up with a pinch wheel assembly for a Designjet 130 instead of the replacement rollers for the Z3100. No wonder he was told they were the latest and greatest since they were for the wrong printer. He calls his tech center in Seattle and they don't know anything about new rollers for the Z3100.
Thanks to Colorwave's posting of the Installation Instructions this morning (good timing, by the way) Roger told his Seattle tech guy that he was looking at the HP instructions to install the new softer, tan rollers so there must be new parts. The Seattle tech guy would not escalate the issue without all the normal steps to reproduce the issue and then the sending in of samples. The call was over.
Roger knows the main guy at the Boise tech center where all the training occurs and who basically are the front line guys for all development after things come down from Barcelona. He will call him this afternoon and try to get the ball rolling. Roger left with a color copy of the Pinch Roller Install doc,
As to the star wheel motor, that part he had with him, but there were no installation instructions available. There are supposedly already electrical connections and a mounting place for the motor inside the printer on the left side (according to Seattle) and the motor is designed to lift the star wheel assembly slightly as the print nears the end of its travel to eliminate start wheel marks on the trailing edge of the print. Roger didn't install it this trip as he wants to find specific instructions before he attempts it, and maybe try it out on another printer first. This didn't bother me as I haven't had star wheel issues since the assembly was replaced a couple of months ago.
It may be another week or two until the pinch roller saga can continue.
Jim
Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.
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stevenh- Here's the document. Don't laugh when you see it. Many months ago I was sent another unofficial document from HP about oiling the printer that was also surprisingly crude. The part about the cap of a pen is seat of the pants engineering at it's finest.
-Ron H.
Hilarious!
On the other hand, it looks simple enough that I might want to try it. I'd feel guilty dragging a tech all the way out to my home in the boondocks to replace such a simple part. Mayby HP could...you know...just mail the part to users?
Just sayin.
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You guys are scaring me, chill out.
john
Update: Ok, so here's the scoop. Not good. Roger shows up with a pinch wheel assembly for a Designjet 130 instead of the replacement rollers for the Z3100. No wonder he was told they were the latest and greatest since they were for the wrong printer. He calls his tech center in Seattle and they don't know anything about new rollers for the Z3100.
Thanks to Colorwave's posting of the Installation Instructions this morning (good timing, by the way) Roger told his Seattle tech guy that he was looking at the HP instructions to install the new softer, tan rollers so there must be new parts. The Seattle tech guy would not escalate the issue without all the normal steps to reproduce the issue and then the sending in of samples. The call was over.
Roger knows the main guy at the Boise tech center where all the training occurs and who basically are the front line guys for all development after things come down from Barcelona. He will call him this afternoon and try to get the ball rolling. Roger left with a color copy of the Pinch Roller Install doc,
As to the star wheel motor, that part he had with him, but there were no installation instructions available. There are supposedly already electrical connections and a mounting place for the motor inside the printer on the left side (according to Seattle) and the motor is designed to lift the star wheel assembly slightly as the print nears the end of its travel to eliminate start wheel marks on the trailing edge of the print. Roger didn't install it this trip as he wants to find specific instructions before he attempts it, and maybe try it out on another printer first. This didn't bother me as I haven't had star wheel issues since the assembly was replaced a couple of months ago.
It may be another week or two until the pinch roller saga can continue.
Jim
Well, I've got my HP tech (Roger) showing up sometime around 10am this morning with, supposedly, the new pinch roller system and some unknown motor newly designed for the star wheel assembly. I'll keep everyone posted.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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John,
The intent of this post was not to scare anyone away from the Z3100. I am only experiencing roller marks on the new baryta papers, which are only in expermental mode right now. All my production work is on HP Pro Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art which give me outstanding results. I am truly happy with the performance of this printer for my photographic work. HP's tech support system is having a problem communicating the existence of these rollers within the company.
The fact that HP is even responding to issues related to 3rd party papers that we would like to use is quite extraordinary. If I have to wait a while for the new rollers, I'm fine with that.
I have had overall an outstanding experience with this printer. There have been a few rough spots with the tech support (showing up twice with the wrong parts), but the issues were dealt with quickly and professionally.
I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.
Jim
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Jim-
Frustrating as it is at times, I'm still on the HP bandwagon and happy with my printer overall, so I second what Jim just said. There are nagging issues and HP has some odd ideas at times, but you can't quarrel with the output or the overall design. When the roller mark problem is solved (which does not effect most paper stocks), I will have no significant remaining beefs with HP.
Remember that very few people post when everything is going well, and this is an entirely new design, not an evolutionary product like Epson's.
-Ron H.
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I appreciate your positive attitue. I'm not sure I'd be as patient as you guys with not being able to work with media that is demanded of cleints.
john
Jim-
Frustrating as it is at times, I'm still on the HP bandwagon and happy with my printer overall, so I second what Jim just said. There are nagging issues and HP has some odd ideas at times, but you can't quarrel with the output or the overall design. When the roller mark problem is solved (which does not effect most paper stocks), I will have no significant remaining beefs with HP.
Remember that very few people post when everything is going well, and this is an entirely new design, not an evolutionary product like Epson's.
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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John,
All my production work is on HP Pro Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art which give me outstanding results. I am truly happy with the performance of this printer for my photographic work. HP's tech support system is having a problem communicating the existence of these rollers within the company.
The fact that HP is even responding to issues related to 3rd party papers that we would like to use is quite extraordinary. If I have to wait a while for the new rollers, I'm fine with that.
I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.
Jim
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=167425\")
Jim,
Right now I have the same approach. The Hahnemuhle 44" Photo Rag 308, German Etching 308 and Photo Rag Bright White 310 go without problems. The Aquarella which is soft too. No problems with the Premium ID RC versions, no problems with canvas. It works for the papers I use and it can only get better for the fiber/baryta later on.
So far HP helps people to use third party media with their information on that subject like the recent PDF versions including a Baryta media preset while HP doesn't have it in their own catalog. The last utility upgrade with the ink limitation settings for media presets, the possibility to have more calibrated custom media presets based on one HP media preset, etc. In line with that is this hardware upgrade.
It is a pity that so much money is going down the drain because the communication isn't working but the intentions to get it better are there.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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I've had the new rollers installed for a few weeks now for testing and I've had no roller marks since then.
HP/barcelona is aware of the communication problems in the US about this issue and hopefully things will improve soon.
denis
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I am in the "happy camper" bunch of owners with this printer.
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Same here. I have experienced roller marks on one paper type that I have rejected on æsthetic grounds anyway. A wide range of other papers work fine for me. My experience with HP service has also been quite positive. The ability to switch from matte to photo black on the fly and the quality of quad-black output are outstanding. I would never go back to Epson.
As always, YMMV.
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hi denis
do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side. he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals
steve h
I've had the new rollers installed for a few weeks now for testing and I've had no roller marks since then.
HP/barcelona is aware of the communication problems in the US about this issue and hopefully things will improve soon.
denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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What media are you using? The Innova Gloss Fiber? Ilford Gold?
hi denis
do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side. he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals
steve h
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm affraid I don't have any part number, they were prototypes installed by an engineer from barcelona.
They're brownish and soft but I can't even say if that's the color of the production ones.
denis
hi denis
do you have any part numbers for the new rollers? my field tech mentioned that this may be of some help here state side. he just replaced my rollers with some sent by hp here but they seem to be the same as the originals
steve h
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Innova ultra-smooth gloss and semi-matte + fuji baryte.
What media are you using? The Innova Gloss Fiber? Ilford Gold?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168483\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I have been promised the new rollers since November, and in December a technician came to my place to replace the old rollers with the new design. However, the rollers he had with him were the originals, so he didn't replace them after calling HP to confirm that they would not resolve the problem.
I talked to HP tech support today, and the technician told me that there were no new rollers, and that HP had no intention of making new rollers to resolve the problem. He said that the technician should have installed the rollers that he had with him in December, and that should resolve the problem. He lined up a technician to replace the original rollers with another set of original rollers -- this is tentatively set to happen tomorrow. I asked him what I should do if this doesn't correct the problem with roll marks on glossy paper, and he said that in that case they would send someone out to replace the rollers again.
When I told him that I had seen photographs of the new rollers on the Internet, he said that they couldn't have been a HP design, as HP is not working on new rollers for the Z3100.
Mary
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i understand, thanks anyway denis.
my field tech and i noticed that the marks actually start about 2 or three inches after the leading edge of the paper. i measured that distance with a caliper and they are exactly the distance it takes for the leading edge to reach the rollers and starwheels so any inked section that was laid down at the start and before the leading edge of the paper reaches the star wheels is fine (no marks or water mark looking streaks). they are spaced exactly the distance horizontally between each roller as well.
hopefully barcelona will communicate in no uncertain terms with hp u.s. i have sent the url for this thread and some of the others to my field tech at hp for his aid.
that said, i do want to mention that i really like this printer. i had to only epsons before this printer. the range and curve of color and value is exceptional. the APS option extends my control in the low shadows and still allows an extension of the high end details. it was the delicacy of detail and range of the high end values that impressed me. that is important to my work, at least in my eyes.
unfortunately some of my work is on the premium gloss from hp which begins to imitate the glow of cibachrome (ilfochrome) and appears to extend the dynamic range of ciba. it is primarily that type of paper which is showing these marks.
I'm affraid I don't have any part number, they were prototypes installed by an engineer from barcelona.
They're brownish and soft but I can't even say if that's the color of the production ones.
denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Find out that guys name and send him the pdf of the photographs that were posted on this site of the new red rollers.
It is my hunch that HP is quickly working on their own paper so they don't have to go in there and replace all these components. The US market is pretty big.
At any rate I'm not that worried in the long term but in the short term it is kind of silly what they are doing.
Does anyone know the guy Ben Wolf? He is the US HP Z target guy and has posted a response to early comments about the Z. Here is his email. If we all write him maybe we can get a straight answer as to why our European friends are being so well taken care of.
Here is his post: Ben Wolf Says:
December 6, 2007 at 10:17 am
To those of you who have outlined support issues on your Z series printer: my name is Ben Wolf and I am the product manager for the Z2100 and Z3100 series in the US. Let me personally apologize to anyone who has received a poor support experience from HP. I encourage anyone who has received an unsatisfactory result or had frustration with our support process to please contact me directly at ben.wolf@hp.com and I will ensure your problems are addressed.
I take customer satisfaction on our products very seriously. This is not corporate lip service: every customer is important to me, and if you are not satisfied, I will personally get involved to resolve whatever issues you may be having.
Regards,
Ben Wolf
Creative Segment Mgr
When I told him that I had seen photographs of the new rollers on the Internet, he said that they couldn't have been a HP design, as HP is not working on new rollers for the Z3100.
Mary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
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ron, i have forwarded the doc you posted to my field tech. it does certainly clarify terms and the problem. i have a feeling that brian (my field tech) will find it interesting.
John- I think we are in agreement about the political side of this issue.
Regarding the new rollers, he showed me a dozen or so challenging stocks he had printed on, with no marks on anything. Very encouraging to see.
stevenh- Here's the document. Don't laugh when you see it. Many months ago I was sent another unofficial document from HP about oiling the printer that was also surprisingly crude. The part about the cap of a pen is seat of the pants engineering at it's finest.
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167327\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thanks to John for the Ben Wolf connection. I emailed him this morning and received the following response in just a couple of hours:
Jim-
I am currently working on the forecast and supply chain for this fix to the product, but do not yet have all the details; this is why I have refrained from responding to the post directly. In addition, the field support process is not functioning the way it should, to put it mildly.
I am indeed working on resolving the issues around support and will be able to give you a clear answer by the end of the week.
Regards,
Ben
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Thanks to John for the Ben Wolf connection. I emailed him this morning and received the following response in just a couple of hours:
Jim-
I am indeed working on resolving the issues around support and will be able to give you a clear answer by the end of the week.
Regards,
Ben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168628\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nice work, everybody. Perhaps we will see results, or at least accelerated results, from the efforts of the group at large.
-Ron H.
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definitely thanks to john. i also emailed Mr. Wolf late this am. no word yet but at least he has another polite respectful letter.
steve
Thanks to John for the Ben Wolf connection. I emailed him this morning and received the following response in just a couple of hours:
Jim-
I am currently working on the forecast and supply chain for this fix to the product, but do not yet have all the details; this is why I have refrained from responding to the post directly. In addition, the field support process is not functioning the way it should, to put it mildly.
I am indeed working on resolving the issues around support and will be able to give you a clear answer by the end of the week.
Regards,
Ben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168628\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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He is a good guy and I hope they appreciate him over at corporate. I never met ANYONE from Epson or Kodak like that. One straight talking person can make all the difference.
I think I'll order my Z tomorrow.
j
definitely thanks to john. i also emailed Mr. Wolf late this am. no word yet but at least he has another polite respectful letter.
steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168633\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Latest Update...
Got home a few minutes ago and had a call from Andy at HP Tech Support who said that that I had the newly designed rollers and new star-wheel assembly being shiiped to me and that they would be here on Monday. Five minutes later Roger the field tech that had been here before with the wrong parts, called and said that he had escalated my issue all the way to the top and he got results. He happened to be at a training session with the head tech guys and they listened to him. He wanted me to know that there parts are still "beta" and I, along with a few others, are being considered test cases. If they need to redesign again...they will.
Here's the scoop:
1) New rollers - Only 20 sets available right now. These are the brown softer ones.
2) New star-wheel assembly with redesigned wheels and an additional manual adjustment mechanism that hopefully will allow for extreme cases of star-wheel marks. As far as the new motor I discussed in a previous thread, it turns out that the motor is already in the printer, so that was misinformation. The motor already lifts the staar-wheel asembly at loading and again at the end of the paper feed when the pressure is not needed because no printing is taking place.
Looks like Roger may not get up here to Flagstaff until Tuesday or so for the install, so I will keep everyone posted.
HP (outside of internal communications) is doing an amazing job on addressing issues with this printer. I've never heard of a large format printer manufacturer updating it's user base to deal with new papers that didn't exist when the printer was designed. As a reminder, I have only experienced roller marks on the new Baryta papers. No issues at all with Epson, HP or other fine art or RC papers.
In another thread on this subject, Neil Snape referred to Barcelona working on both rollers and star-wheels. Here's the proof!
Jim
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Good job Jim. I just ordered my printer yesterday so I'm very interested in having this resolved sooner than later. The squeaky roller gets the grease apparently. Someone said the Ilford Gold Fiber gloss papers is actually working on the Z now without marks?... anyone have info about that?
john
Latest Update...
Got home a few minutes ago and had a call from Andy at HP Tech Support who said that that I had the newly designed rollers and new star-wheel assembly being shiiped to me and that they would be here on Monday. Five minutes later Roger the field tech that had been here before with the wrong parts, called and said that he had escalated my issue all the way to the top and he got results. He happened to be at a training session with the head tech guys and they listened to him. He wanted me to know that there parts are still "beta" and I, along with a few others, are being considered test cases. If they need to redesign again...they will.
Here's the scoop:
1) New rollers - Only 20 sets available right now. These are the brown softer ones.
2) New star-wheel assembly with redesigned wheels and an additional manual adjustment mechanism that hopefully will allow for extreme cases of star-wheel marks. As far as the new motor I discussed in a previous thread, it turns out that the motor is already in the printer, so that was misinformation. The motor already lifts the staar-wheel asembly at loading and again at the end of the paper feed when the pressure is not needed because no printing is taking place.
Looks like Roger may not get up here to Flagstaff until Tuesday or so for the install, so I will keep everyone posted.
HP (outside of internal communications) is doing an amazing job on addressing issues with this printer. I've never heard of a large format printer manufacturer updating it's user base to deal with new papers that didn't exist when the printer was designed. As a reminder, I have only experienced roller marks on the new Baryta papers. No issues at all with Epson, HP or other fine art or RC papers.
In another thread on this subject, Neil Snape referred to Barcelona working on both rollers and star-wheels. Here's the proof!
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171549\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Update...02/05/08
Roger, my HP Tech showed up today to do the install of the new tan pinch rollers and the new starwheel assembly. The parts showed up on Monday as promised by HP.
It took about 1 1/2 hours for the conversion. Most of the time was spent replacing those tiny rollers.
I have only had a chance to run one test print on the Harman Gloss FB Al that was the problem paper for me. The good news is that the roller marks so prevalent with the old rollers are now completely absent. I'm sure, even though I have not tested any other Baryta papers, the results will be the same for all. I have never had roller marks on any other RC or fine art rag paper.
I will run some more test prints on this paper in the next couple of days.
The new star-wheel assembly has a black plastic insert at each end that when pulled out raises the assembly a couple of mm. According to Roger, this is designed for worst case scenarios. The springs on the star-wheels themselves have also been redesigned again to lower the pressure on the surface of the paper.
All in all an excellent response from the HP team! Kudos. Remember that both of these updates are in "beta" testing so they will not be available for everyone who needs/wants them for a little while longer. Currently, there are only about 20 or so sets of these rollers in the US.
If I see any different results in the near future than I just reported, I will be sure to do a follow up post.
Jim
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Update...02/05/08
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Great news! I'd sign up for the upgrade to the new rollers & starwheels when they're available.
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I guess we can also think Mr. Wolf for getting this going in the US. I'm really looking forward to the possibilities. There are some reports that the Ilford Gold is working in the Z. Has anyone tried it? My printer isn't here yet.
john
Update...02/05/08
Roger, my HP Tech showed up today to do the install of the new tan pinch rollers and the new starwheel assembly. The parts showed up on Monday as promised by HP.
It took about 1 1/2 hours for the conversion. Most of the time was spent replacing those tiny rollers.
I have only had a chance to run one test print on the Harman Gloss FB Al that was the problem paper for me. The good news is that the roller marks so prevalent with the old rollers are now completely absent. I'm sure, even though I have not tested any other Baryta papers, the results will be the same for all. I have never had roller marks on any other RC or fine art rag paper.
I will run some more test prints on this paper in the next couple of days.
The new star-wheel assembly has a black plastic insert at each end that when pulled out raises the assembly a couple of mm. According to Roger, this is designed for worst case scenarios. The springs on the star-wheels themselves have also been redesigned again to lower the pressure on the surface of the paper.
All in all an excellent response from the HP team! Kudos. Remember that both of these updates are in "beta" testing so they will not be available for everyone who needs/wants them for a little while longer. Currently, there are only about 20 or so sets of these rollers in the US.
If I see any different results in the near future than I just reported, I will be sure to do a follow up post.
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Good job Jim. I just ordered my printer yesterday so I'm very interested in having this resolved sooner than later. The squeaky roller gets the grease apparently. Someone said the Ilford Gold Fiber gloss papers is actually working on the Z now without marks?... anyone have info about that?
john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
John-
I'm using Ilford Gold Fiber Silk on my Z3100 with no roller marks. But my machine seems to handle most papers without roller marks. I've never seen any roller marks on any papers (including HP RC papers, Innova Semi-matte, Crane Silver Rag, Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Pearl). The only paper I get roller marks on is Epson Exhibition Fiber.
-John
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Wow. That was fast. Its strange I just found your website and was just in the process of emailing you about this very issue. Tyler Boley gave me your name.
That's interesting you have such good results! I have a job that has to go to a major musuem and they would like to do it on a fiber gloss with the Z for long term stability. I'll give it a shot.
john
John-
I'm using Ilford Gold Fiber Silk on my Z3100 with no roller marks. But my machine seems to handle most papers without roller marks. I've never seen any roller marks on any papers (including HP RC papers, Innova Semi-matte, Crane Silver Rag, Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Pearl). The only paper I get roller marks on is Epson Exhibition Fiber.
-John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172714\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Another Update - Bad News
The initial apparent success with the new rollers was short lived. Using the Harman Gloss FB Al paper, and after calibrating and re-profiling with APS using the "Fine Art Pearl - Less Ink" preset and finally setting the print driver to use double passes during printing to slow down the movement of the paper through the printer, pinch roller marks are still visible, especially on darker areas of the prints. The initial calibration target that I printed while the tech was here seemed mark free, but they were just hard to see. In the real world prints and on the profile target prints the marks are a bit more visible.
They are not as bad as with the old rollers, but still there and visible enough to prevent selling prints on this paper. I do not now or have ever had roller issues using my primary papers HP professional Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art. It's a shame since these new Baryta papers have an outstanding presentation for color and black and white work. I keep the print room at 35% humidity and about 60-70 degrees F so I do not think it is an environmental issue. Maybe on the next engineering go-around...
Jim
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Hey Jim- disapointing, as I am getting my new rollers next week. Have you tried increasing the drying time even more?
Bill
Another Update - Bad News
The initial apparent success with the new rollers was short lived. Using the Harman Gloss FB Al paper, and after calibrating and re-profiling with APS using the "Fine Art Pearl - Less Ink" preset and finally setting the print driver to use double passes during printing to slow down the movement of the paper through the printer, pinch roller marks are still visible, especially on darker areas of the prints. The initial calibration target that I printed while the tech was here seemed mark free, but they were just hard to see. In the real world prints and on the profile target prints the marks are a bit more visible.
They are not as bad as with the old rollers, but still there and visible enough to prevent selling prints on this paper. I do not now or have ever had roller issues using my primary papers HP professional Satin and HP Smooth Fine Art. It's a shame since these new Baryta papers have an outstanding presentation for color and black and white work. I keep the print room at 35% humidity and about 60-70 degrees F so I do not think it is an environmental issue. Maybe on the next engineering go-around...
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hey Jim- disapointing, as I am getting my new rollers next week. Have you tried increasing the drying time even more?
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How can this be done? The extended dry time setting only seems to change how long it dries before cutting, as best I can tell.
-Ron H.
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Bill,
Ron is correct. The dry time setting only pauses the cutter a while longer. I know of no other way of slowing down the print through the machine.
Hey Jim- disapointing, as I am getting my new rollers next week. Have you tried increasing the drying time even more?
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I took delivery of mine yesterday and was up till 4am troubleshooting. I had pie cutter marks and roller marks on the included HP gloss on the calibration, test target and a test print. I was too frustrated to continue, since the HP support site is useless, and they were closed for talking to someone. In the hopes that it was simply the paper and/or printer still being too humid for good operation, I went to bed.
At noon today, I did another test print and the marks were not as bad but still there.
After many more attempts at correcting it, I finally got it working. I tried several combinations of settings, and setting dpi to 1200, and using More Passes - it comes out clean. I have no idea why it makes such a big difference on mine, but it does.
I also received a roll of Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk and tried it with perfect results, using Fine Art Pearl Paper (more ink) with GE on, 1200 dpi, more passes. No sign of marks on the calibration target, profile target or a full size print!
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Kaelaria,
Glad you got your Z running well. Maybe the Ilford Gold Fiber Silk dries slightly faster than the Harman. The only other thing I can try is to use GE on the whole sheet. I had it on Economy mode. Maybe it will set up the inks faster, although I doubt it.
I'll probably just stick with my tried and true HP Pro Satin paper. I never have any issues there.
Jim
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I too am using Eccono Mode.
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I am using Hahnemuhle Baryta- only on A4 so far but astonishing results- no marks- larger gamut than ID Satin for colour and very intense blacks for mono. Seems very robust surface too- maybe that is the key to not marking through the printer!?
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Thanks for the comment on the Hahne paper. Perhaps it's just the Harman surface that can't take the ink well on the Z.
Jim
I am using Hahnemuhle Baryta- only on A4 so far but astonishing results- no marks- larger gamut than ID Satin for colour and very intense blacks for mono. Seems very robust surface too- maybe that is the key to not marking through the printer!?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Well, after doing more printing today -not so happy. I did one in greyscale, and see rollermarks, and a few lines where it looks like the edge of the roller dragged or something. The scratch lines are plainyl visible, the roller smudge marks only form an extreme angle - but are plainly there. You can even see where parts of the roller are leaving marks and parts aren't, there is a repeating smudge pattern for each one. It's like they need to be cleaned - but I sure can't see how to get in there and wipe them. Anyone know how to get that roller bar off to wipe them down with alcohol or something?
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Well, after doing more printing today -not so happy. I did one in greyscale, and see rollermarks, and a few lines where it looks like the edge of the roller dragged or something. The scratch lines are plainyl visible, the roller smudge marks only form an extreme angle - but are plainly there. You can even see where parts of the roller are leaving marks and parts aren't, there is a repeating smudge pattern for each one. It's like they need to be cleaned - but I sure can't see how to get in there and wipe them. Anyone know how to get that roller bar off to wipe them down with alcohol or something?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you push "up" and "cancel" while in the main menu you come into the service menu.
Go then in service utilities and there you have the option to "turn drive roller".
That will allow you to clean them.
denis
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HP officialy has terrible support.
I called yesterday right after they opened (designjet support is not covered by live chat nor 24 hour phone support - you have to go through all the menus to find that out).
I spoke to a very nice guy that talked to me for 30 min getting all the details of the problem. he said it's a known common problem and he can get a tech out to replace the assembly. I thought great!
15 min later I missed his call back - he left a message that they need 'pictures of the marks' emailed to designjet.generic@hp.com - ok, I sent them right after 9am. He also assured me that either he or a tech would be calling me right back after the computer processes the case.
1pm, I have heard nothing, so I call back and get another guy. He basically says that they are 'waiting on the pictures because they go to a routing address and only my guy can process the claim'. He assured me that I would still be getting a call that day. NOTHING.
I call back this morning - now I'm getting a little pissed. They are treating this as if it's a freaking $50 printer from Best Buy - oh, it sucks, no big deal, here jump through these hoops. I get a third guy, who puts me on hold for 5 min and talks to someone else. he comes back, says my guy, Tal, is on the other line and will call me back in 5 min. It's been 30, and I'm calling them back again right now.
HP - YOUR SUPPORT SUCKS THE BIG ONE.
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Well, end of day two, nothing done yet.
After my last call in, I got a 4th guy who got real snotty. I blew it, told him off, basically what I typed above. I said I have a contract for support, I want a tech out - he said it's not going to happen. I said give me your supervisor. he said 'he'll tell you the same thing!' I said great, then I'll talk to HIS supervisor! 10 more minutes on hold I'm talking with the floor supervisor who now states the first guy was wrong. He said they have heard of the problem, have very of the few new parts and each case has to go through him for authorization to use them. he said the pictures took a day to be routed to him, and he just got them at noon (day two). He said he sent them to a 'technical group for authentication' and is waiting for the approval to send out the parts. I calmed down a little but was still pissed that they don't have ANY coherant support structure in place. Everyone has a different opinion of how thier own company handles things. Which one is right, if any? Who knows.
I just got a call back form the supervisor (6 hours later) and he said he got authorization, and the new parts are being sent out. He didn't know if they were leaving tonight or int he morning, but assured me if they do not arrive tomorrow morning they will Thursday morning. I am then to give them a call 1 hour later if I have not heard from them first, to tell them they arrived and they will send a tech to install them.
We'll see what happens. Best case, I have a working new printer 2 days after calling. Worst case...it takes days to arrive and doesn't fix it.
I'll report as we go along...
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If you push "up" and "cancel" while in the main menu you come into the service menu.
Go then in service utilities and there you have the option to "turn drive roller".
That will allow you to clean them.
denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174183\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you very much, handy info I'm sure, when I'll need it in the future as well!
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New update. No parts yet today, but that's irrelavent now. I just had a call from the local tech (YEA!) and he had to order some additional parts to bring - they will not be to him until tomorrow. So even if my parts show up today, it's not happening.
Maybe tomorrow, we'll see - nothing has happened as promised so far so I'm not holding my breath.
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And a glimmer of hope - my shipment of parts just arrived!
I can't tell if thse parts are any different than the ones on it though. The rollers look and feel exactly the same to me at least.
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And a glimmer of hope - my shipment of parts just arrived!
I can't tell if thse parts are any different than the ones on it though. The rollers look and feel exactly the same to me at least.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174621\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm . . . your story sounds like mine, in which I had the "new" rollers sent, but it turned out that they were the same ones as the first design. That is when HP denied that there was a new design at all (after previously confirming on the phone that there was a new design and ordering it for me). The new design that I have seen is easily distinguishable from the old one.
Best of luck fighting this. I've decided to sit tight and let others fight this battle, as I don't have the time to myself right now. HP has a major case of left hand/right hand-itis, where one hand has no idea what the other is up to.
-Ron H.
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Well, here's what I'm hoping at least. This pinch roller kit they sent isn't even my problem. My roller marks are not from those, they are from the rollers all along the page. It looks like HP is calling those 'grit rollers'. These 'Pinch rollers' are just for the center two. I hope the parts that the tech is getting tomorrow, are the new grit rollers that I'm having an issue with.
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The roller replacement package should include 4 or 5 black plastic roller holders (these are in case the tech breaks one or more - mine broke two - so it is great forethought) and a bag of twenty-something small tan rollers which will replace the black ones that came on the printer. The package will also include the instructions for the retrofit.
If you have black rollers, then you have the wrong parts.
Jim
And a glimmer of hope - my shipment of parts just arrived!
I can't tell if thse parts are any different than the ones on it though. The rollers look and feel exactly the same to me at least.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174621\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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AH HA! Yes, burried in the packing materials was a little bag with - new tan colored rollers! WOOHOO!
And yes the instructions are what I placed above...
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You did such a great job with images of the starwheels and black rollers I hope you provide an image of the brown rollers.
I'll place this on the z3100 wiki (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/) when you do.
Thanks!
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Here...
They are MUCH more supple and rubbery. You can squish them with your fingernail. The original by comparison feel like a plastic pen material - no give, very hard.
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Thanks!!!!
I've placed your images and PDF on the wiki here. (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/Z3100+problems)
You might want to take a look at the existing doc on pinch rollers as it provides a great set of instructions on replacing them along with images.
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My PDF IS the official instruction sheet for replacing them. You didn't read pages 3 & 4 of it.
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Do me a credit favor and add a link to my website by the pictures and PDF if you are going to use them on your wiki please.
Thanks
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My PDF IS the official instruction sheet for replacing them. You didn't read pages 3 & 4 of it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, I did read it and noticed it was the "official" instruction sheet. I just preferred the photos from the other doc to the PDF drawings.
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You might want to take a look at the existing doc on pinch rollers as it provides a great set of instructions on replacing them along with images.
OK Sorry, I read that like you thought I didn't know about the instructions already.
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Do me a credit favor and add a link to my website by the pictures and PDF if you are going to use them on your wiki please.
Thanks
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174679\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No problem. BTW, its not my wiki. I'm just one of the contributors. The point of the wiki is to share what we learn about the Z3100 printers.
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That's fine if it's you own info you are sharing. Taking my info and posting it without permission or credit isn't cool.
Thank you for the credit line, that's fine.
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Tech just called, said he will be here within 2 hours!
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Oh and what a shock - more broken promises.
First a call when he was supposed to be here saying he's 2 hours behind. Now a 2nd call to say he won't be here until tomorrow.
Batting a thousand, HP.
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Oh and what a shock - more broken promises.
First a call when he was supposed to be here saying he's 2 hours behind. Now a 2nd call to say he won't be here until tomorrow.
Batting a thousand, HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What kind of test could we do to know if the machine is prone to mark paper with these rollers ?
To avoid ruining a print or a piece of roll, is a test possible with a single sheet ?
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Just make a white image and print it.
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Just make a white image and print it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174943\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Did you order and receive your free rolls from HP Startright page ?
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I don't even know what that is...
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Googling it, I see it offered in other countries, but I don't find it for the US.
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Googling it, I see it offered in other countries, but I don't find it for the US.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174953\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry, it seems so.
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First I want to give a "hats off" to Ben Wolf @ HP. He has taken the communications problems within HP U.S. very seriously. He replied quickly and he seems to know how to get things done.
Second I would like to complement Brian, my field tech. He has been patient, he listened and actually looked at the problem. He discussed on site with me about our respective observations and what the problem might be. He explained to the U.S. hp office folks that I was being very patient but that I had been offline for too long. He consulted this thread to read up on the problems when I gave him the URL.
There was a shipping error for the parts and Andie at HP took care of it immediately and profusely apologized and then made it right.
my parts have been delivered on wed.
I anticipate having my printer on line shortly
When I started this new thread as a follow up to those threads started earlier by others I didn't expect it to last this long.
http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/ (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/) is also compiling an excellent one stop shop for information on the z3100 and related information.
Lastly I think a huge thanks should go to Michael Reichmann aka Luminous Landscape for providing an excellent venue for discussion and reference.
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UPDATE!
I am VERY happy to say that after 3 hours of two techs doing the upgrades, it now prints BEAUTIFULLY!
The package that the tech had to have shipped turned out to be a new installation tool for the pinch roller assemblies. Neither tech had done the swap before, and HP did not provide them with any instructions on how to use the tool - but they were very much on the ball and figured it out. They both agreed that this is definitely a two person job for proper reassembly, and would hate to attempt it alone lol!
The printer was stripped almost bare, down to the core frame.
The new starwheel assembly is virtually identical, and none of us could detect any huge difference other than the addition of two black plastic parts on either side. We have no idea what they are for, but there are NO star wheel marks anywhere on the test print that just came out - on low quality no less!
The new roller assemblies also are perfect, not a hint of lines or smudge anywhere, just as it should be.
They showed up on time at 9 as promised yesterday. It was pure luck that he had a helper - the new guy was in training. I thought it comical that even they had to sit on hold for 30 min with different HP people for support. By the time they got through to someone that knew, they had already figured out how to use the tool themselves!
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The black plastic parts on the ends of the star-wheel assembly can be pulled out manually which raises the assembly another couple of mm for worst case scenarios when some paper/ink combos might still produce star-wheel marks.
Jim
UPDATE!
The new starwheel assembly is virtually identical, and none of us could detect any huge difference other than the addition of two black plastic parts on either side. We have no idea what they are for, but there are NO star wheel marks anywhere on the test print that just came out - on low quality no less!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I also agree that Ben has taken these issues seriously and we have been communicating as well.
This morning he let me know that one common issue with the roller marks has been the Harman Gloss FB Al paper which is the paper I reported problems with, even with the new rollers.
Ben says that they are currently testing this paper and looking into the paper/ink settings to see what they've missed. Hopefully HP will be able to figure this one out and eliminate my last issue with this printer.
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
First I want to give a "hats off" to Ben Wolf @ HP. He has taken the communications problems within HP U.S. very seriously. He replied quickly and he seems to know how to get things done.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175067\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I also agree that Ben has taken these issues seriously and we have been communicating as well.
This morning he let me know that one common issue with the roller marks has been the Harman Gloss FB Al paper which is the paper I reported problems with, even with the new rollers.
Ben says that they are currently testing this paper and looking into the paper/ink settings to see what they've missed. Hopefully HP will be able to figure this one out and eliminate my last issue with this printer.
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jim-
Hare you had any indication from HP about what the replacement policy will be with both new designs? I'm wondering if these will eventually be swapped out for everybody, or if the will try to qualify people before agreeing to swap the parts for the new design as they are doing now. I certainly understand the prioritization while this is a new process with limited parts, but would love to hear that they plan on doing this across the board with everybody eventually. It seems like excellent PR if they do it right. Their early track record with this did not help their cause with their client base and could probably be described as "not right".
-Ron H.
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OK I'm done proclaiming victory, it keeps coming back and biting me in the groin.
So I switch out the Ilford for the HP ID Gloss, and find this on every freaking print now.
What the heck is going on? It's almost like the heads are dripping or something.
And thanks for the info on the side parts - they are indeed manual shims. You have to lift the assembly and then you can pull them out to raise it slightly.
This looks like head strike, but I am printing on low res, the correct paper is selected and nothing has changed other than the new parts.
It's even splashing back on the new rollers and the paper before it even gets to the heads!
I tried the built in head cleaning - no effect. I'm calling HP right now to get the tech back out.
Sigh.
Oh one other thing - can someone look and see if thier rollers are staggered like mine are now? I don't remember if they were or not before.
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Hi Ron,
I have been told by HP that the new rollers and the new star-wheel assembly are in beta testing and therefore in limited supply. They want to see if they can solve all the issues on a few printers before they roll out the parts in enough supply for everyone. This makes sense as it would cost a fortune to send techs out to all owners on the first go around only to have the new parts not measure up and have to do it all over again. I'm sure when they decide that they have the problem licked, the parts will be available to everyone with issues. HP has been very progressive in their support of Z3100 owners.
Jim
Jim-
Hare you had any indication from HP about what the replacement policy will be with both new designs? I'm wondering if these will eventually be swapped out for everybody, or if the will try to qualify people before agreeing to swap the parts for the new design as they are doing now. I certainly understand the prioritization while this is a new process with limited parts, but would love to hear that they plan on doing this across the board with everybody eventually. It seems like excellent PR if they do it right. Their early track record with this did not help their cause with their client base and could probably be described as "not right".
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175100\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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My pinch roller assemblies are NOT staggered like that. There is a slight visible variation, but nothing like your photo shows.
Sorry about the trouble you are having. The only reason that my tech had to remove a portion of the rear side of the printer was because a spring popped off one of the roller assemblies and he had to get inside the back to get to it. If not for the spring, he would have completed the install of the rollers and the star-wheel assembly from the top of the printer. Not sure why your techs had to disassemble the entire printer.
Jim
Oh one other thing - can someone look and see if thier rollers are staggered like mine are now? I don't remember if they were or not before.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175104\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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That's something I was wondering about too.
The instructions that came with my parts showed popping out the rollers with the shafts and leaving everything intact.
His new tool and new instructions call for disassembly and replacement of the entire pincher assemblies as well.
It looks like they were not installed correctly to me, being twisted - like they twisted as the screw was tightened - the tool may not have been used correctly afterall, it was to align them during installation.
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I called the tech and emailed him pics. He's coming back out on Tuesday. I suspect this is an installation error, not a parts problem.
Just for the record, even on the HP gloss there is still no problem with the roller marks or star wheels anymore, those two problems still appear to be fixed. This is a whole new issue that only started after the service call.
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Trying to diagnose or at least narrow the problem down, I thought it may be the paper. I'm on the last 8 feet of this 2" core HP paper, and th tech even suggested it my be the excessive curl. It seemed strange to me that you would not be able to use all the paper on the roll, but I accepted it as a possibility.
So anyway, I took the remaining paper off the roll and ran a 6' section through my decurler. It is now very straight and flopped in the catch basket going in the back. Curl is now out of the equation, as it's feeding the same or straighter than my Ilford roll.
So I try a couple test prints, just using the info printouts to not waste ink of course. I get through one, and it's the same. It starts page 2 and now it's jamming right when the leading edge of the paper is hitting the new star wheel assembly.
I now suspect this may occur also on my iflord roll, but I'm not wasting it to try. I'm leaving this exactly as-is until Tuesday.
I'm sending this info also to my tech, hoping it will help.
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Don't worry, be happy.
john
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=166763\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
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The techs just left after working 1 hour. Turns out they didn't have the right info the first time, and received official instructions for the alignment tool this morning for this job. They realigned using the tool to spec, and all appears well. No more paper jam, no more head strike, no more paper detection problem. I'll be printing tonight and the rest of the week, if I don't post back all is well
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I have the parts here for the same job, am waiting on the tech to come. Can you tell me what was different about the instructions, or do you have a file for the instructions?
Thanks, Bill
The techs just left after working 1 hour. Turns out they didn't have the right info the first time, and received official instructions for the alignment tool this morning for this job. They realigned using the tool to spec, and all appears well. No more paper jam, no more head strike, no more paper detection problem. I'll be printing tonight and the rest of the week, if I don't post back all is well
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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No I don't have a file or a paper - it was so new he only had it online through his laptop this morning.
I know it now involves tearing the printer down to the frame, replacing each fully assembled roller and reassembling, then using a big alingment tool for each of the roller assemblies. The problem with mine was they had the new tool but no instructions, and it turns out they simply had it placed to the wrong spot when they used it.
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The parts I received included a large white cable tie that the tech used as a tool to pop out each set of rollers from each holder. No disassembly required.
Now they've gotten fancy!
Jim
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Yeah, that's the old way. The new way is what my tech did, and just received official instructions for this morning.
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my field tech brian just left after installing the new rollers and star wheel assembly. we ran a test with GE on and IP gloss with the starwheel shim lever in the raised postion.
at first glance it looks very good. i will check again tomorrow after i let it dry overnight and in better light. it is definitely much better.
we didn't have the "new and improved" tool just the nylon tie strap which worked fine. left the roller assembly in and he just made sure that they were all aligned.
brian has been a great field tech!
here's hoping. i'll let you know.
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Well if I didn't have bad luck with this thing, I'd have no luck at all.
So I get through about another 10 feet of my Ilford roll tonight, printing small test images - and I notice after a couple min I can't see the sheet coming out yet. I take a look through the top to find the paper stuck just under the new rollers, not advancing - and the freaking print head going like mad spraying the deck!!! The stupid thing doesn't even know if there is paper there or not?!
So I pull it out, clean it all up with paper towels. I print two more prints and then it does it again. Except now I'm checking for it and catch it early, not having such a huge mess to clean this time.
It looks like the new rollers are pushing down and griping the top surface so well, the bottom rollers that feed the sheet don't have enough grip now. They are actually spinning under the paper and grinding through it!
I'm going to try and clean them off with alcohol, see if it will help.
This did not happen witht he cheap HP gloss yet, just the Ilford Gold - so I have serious doubts as to the help I would ever get out of HP this time. Great.
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Well, I used the service menu tip from page 3 to clean all the rollers VERY well with q tips and alcohol. The sheet reloaded without a problem, and is now printing again. This will be my last for the night, it'll be 2am here before I'm done with this one. I'll leave the roll fed overnight and see how it does tomorrow as well.
On the plus side, I used my recent printer downtime to construct a new workroom area with a 48x60 matting bench holding my mat cutter, paper cutter and all my supplies I just put the finishing touches on it tonight, taking a break from this frustration.
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OK, narrowed it down a little more.
Letting it sit overnight, it did it again.
What's now happening, is the rollers are holding the paper so far down, it's sitting down on the tips of the guides, creating little ridges. When they form, and the paper then tries to feed, it gets caught. Fedding it in fresh, they don't yet have a chance to form and it goes through.
I have a feeling these rollers are still not yet installed correctly. If you were to look at the bottom rollers from the side, the top rollers are coming down at about 10:30. If they were closer to the top, 12:00, then the paper would not be forced down with as much of a lip against the guides.
Can someone take a top down shot real quick of ther rollers, to see where they are positioned? Looking top down, mine are currently right next to the tips of the guides.
Thanks
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This clearly shows what the paper is catching on. When it rests a bit, it's being formed over the rear most guides, forming bumps along the leading paper edge. These guides also have a small hard lip you can easily snag your fingernail on also. The paper is hitting this lip after the bumps form, preventing it from feeding.
The simple fix to me, if this can not be fixed by readjustment of the rollers if that is prudent, is to sand down the guide edges to match the rest of them, preventing the bumps from forming and preventing the paper from snagging.
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i have had no problems yet but have not tried it with ilford paper yet.
image of mine below for your reference.
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Thank you VERY much, that confirms my throughts. My rollers are about 5mm more forward than yours, flush with the paper edge. Yours are clearly more back, more towards the top of the bottom roller. I will send your pic to my tech also so he can see.
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Thank you VERY much, that confirms my throughts. My rollers are about 5mm more forward than yours, flush with the paper edge. Yours are clearly more back, more towards the top of the bottom roller. I will send your pic to my tech also so he can see.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
so it would appear. glad the image was some help.
good luck!
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btw, for those of you dropping names in this thread, Bonnie is spelled with an "ie" and Andie is spelled with an "ie".
fwiw
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I have anew case number, I just spoke to a very nice guy, Robert, in the Designjet support group. I emailed him the relavent pics, and he said he'll make sure he gets a tech out ASAP when he sees the pics. I'm sure this will be resolved quickly and easily, I think it's still just an install tweak.
On the plus side I eaked out a dozen AWESOME prints last night, and got at least the min I needed for this morning.
On the minus side, as I was in here printing over the weekend, I noticed....termites. Terminix is coming tomorrow to the tune of $1100. I have two walls infested, and it's amazing how fast they tear through pressure treated 2x4 Little buggers came up through my slab where some plumbing pipes went through!
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Robert just called me back and confirmed that my rollers are installed too far forward, and a tech will be here tomorrow! Yea!
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I've gotten my Z3100 fitted with the new star wheels as well as the the new "tan" pinch rollers and the pinch wheel marks are completely gone on the Harman FB AI Gloss.
Thanks to all the info on this thread I was able to get it all done with only one annoying menu/tech support call. After that it was helpful to have Ben wolf's contact info because that bypassed any additional calls. He was great to deal with and very helpful, as was the tech who did the update to the printer.
Interestingly, my tech did his homework and knew about the tan wheels before he came, but he was unable to get a parts number to order them as of Friday of last week. When he came for the service yesterday, he then called HP to confirm that he was still able to see pinch roller marks after a test print and at that point they sent the parts directly to me.
So for anyone who may need it, here is the part # for the tan pinch rollers:
P/N Q5669-67060
Also for anyone who's interested in the paper settings I used for the profile:
It took 3 tries to get the correct paper setting. The first was "fine art pearl-less ink" which printed ok but I felt like I wanted to put more ink on the paper for better dmax. The 2nd setting I tried was "Glossy" at default paper thickness which made noticeably darker blacks but caused head strikes. The 3rd was the "Glossy" setting with paper set to "thick". This is the one...the blacks look great and no sign of head strikes. I also take the extra precaution to make sure the paper is wound on the roll w/no slack before printing. I'm lazy about that with other paper because I've never had head strikes with anything else.
This paper is beautiful on the Z3100 and I'd encourage anyone who wants to use it to go ahead with the star wheel/pinch roller update.
DLS
www.imagesbydom.com
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So for anyone who may need it, here is the part # for the tan pinch rollers:
P/N Q5669-67060
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any chance that I could get the part number for the new starwheel design from you as well?
Thanks,
Ron H.
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I've gotten my Z3100 fitted with the new star wheels as well as the the new "tan" pinch rollers and the pinch wheel marks are completely gone on the Harman FB AI Gloss.
Thanks to all the info on this thread I was able to get it all done with only one annoying menu/tech support call. After that it was helpful to have Ben wolf's contact info because that bypassed any additional calls. He was great to deal with and very helpful, as was the tech who did the update to the printer.
Interestingly, my tech did his homework and knew about the tan wheels before he came, but he was unable to get a parts number to order them as of Friday of last week. When he came for the service yesterday, he then called HP to confirm that he was still able to see pinch roller marks after a test print and at that point they sent the parts directly to me.
So for anyone who may need it, here is the part # for the tan pinch rollers:
P/N Q5669-67060
Also for anyone who's interested in the paper settings I used for the profile:
It took 3 tries to get the correct paper setting. The first was "fine art pearl-less ink" which printed ok but I felt like I wanted to put more ink on the paper for better dmax. The 2nd setting I tried was "Glossy" at default paper thickness which made noticeably darker blacks but caused head strikes. The 3rd was the "Glossy" setting with paper set to "thick". This is the one...the blacks look great and no sign of head strikes. I also take the extra precaution to make sure the paper is wound on the roll w/no slack before printing. I'm lazy about that with other paper because I've never had head strikes with anything else.
This paper is beautiful on the Z3100 and I'd encourage anyone who wants to use it to go ahead with the star wheel/pinch roller update.
DLS
www.imagesbydom.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Obviously HP support in the US or UK is far better than here in Belgium.
Since two weeks now I'm waiting for a non-existent reply from HP, with a
case reference and numerous emails sent to them.
Gross uncompetence
or worst — lack of goodwill and total despise of a customer. For years
I dealt with companies not known for their customer friendliness
like Microsoft, but I never ever had such a bad experience.
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Any chance that I could get the part number for the new starwheel design from you as well?
Thanks,
Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"P/N Q5669-67061
Starwheel With Actuator 24 Sv"
The name on the pinch roller kit is:
"Rubber Pinch Wheel Kit Sv"
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DLS,
I've had the updates for a couple of weeks now but still have roller mark issues with the Harman Gloss FB. Since the update I have only tried profiling with the "fine art pearl - less ink" preset and not the Glossy setting that you were finally happy with.
Curious to know if you had success (no roller marks) with the fine art pearl setting and just didn't like the ink laydown. Everyone else so far has declared victory on an initial print on the Harman, only to go back, look closely and find roller marks that they missed on the first inspection.
If you got a clean print with this preset, then I wonder what the difference is.
Are you using Gloss Enhancer?
Thanks,
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
Also for anyone who's interested in the paper settings I used for the profile:
It took 3 tries to get the correct paper setting. The first was "fine art pearl-less ink" which printed ok but I felt like I wanted to put more ink on the paper for better dmax. The 2nd setting I tried was "Glossy" at default paper thickness which made noticeably darker blacks but caused head strikes. The 3rd was the "Glossy" setting with paper set to "thick". This is the one...the blacks look great and no sign of head strikes. I also take the extra precaution to make sure the paper is wound on the roll w/no slack before printing. I'm lazy about that with other paper because I've never had head strikes with anything else.
DLS
www.imagesbydom.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Just for further information, that is the part number for just the rollers. There is an updated one (I don't have it anymore, threw out the paper I wrote it down on) that also includes the new alignment tool.
I had the part number you stated shipped to me - my tech had the new one shipped to him and brought it.
I wonder if it was just a limited test, since I'm the only one that seems to have the new version so far?
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DLS,
I've had the updates for a couple of weeks now but still have roller mark issues with the Harman Gloss FB. Since the update I have only tried profiling with the "fine art pearl - less ink" preset and not the Glossy setting that you were finally happy with.
Curious to know if you had success (no roller marks) with the fine art pearl setting and just didn't like the ink laydown. Everyone else so far has declared victory on an initial print on the Harman, only to go back, look closely and find roller marks that they missed on the first inspection.
If you got a clean print with this preset, then I wonder what the difference is.
Are you using Gloss Enhancer?
Thanks,
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177578\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well I can't really say because I did all the profiling before the starwheel/pinchwheel replacement. I had pinch roller marks even with the FAP-less ink setting before the fix but they were really faint and you had to be looking for them to see them and even then it wasn't easy to see. I could see it, but not everyone could.
There was one print in particular though, that they really showed up on in an obvious way. Like 1/2 wide lines running through the print. It was printed with the glossy/thick profile. That's the file that I did the test print with after the update. I can say 100% for sure there is absolutely no sign of pinch wheel marks on it. It's the only print I've done so far because the repair was just finished today so I guess time will tell on other prints, but this had been my worst case so far.
I think taking up the slack on the spool may be a factor as well, because it makes the straightest possible path that way and this paper has a sensitive surface.
The ink settings:
FAP(less ink) has ink limiting set at 32.
For "Photo Gloss Paper" it's set to 36.
The "more ink" settings for both papers is 46.
I guess "Photo Gloss" standard sits in just the right place for this paper. Just don't forget to set the paper to "thick" because it swells as it takes the ink and you'll get head strikes.
GE is set to econo mode.
As a side note: The new star wheel mechanism actually raises the foremost set of starwheels high enough to have no contact with the paper. I have had very little problem with starwheel marks before the fix, but if they were visible it would be in areas of dark solid color. The thing that's interesting about this paper is that it REALLY swells as it takes the ink so that by the end of a 10x15 print the paper has raised up in spots enough to make a few of the star wheels turn. I don't see any marks from that, but I'd only expect to see them in areas of dark solid color, so again time will tell. If they do show up I wouldn't hesitate to put an additional spacer (maybe 1/16") of some kind under the new shims to keep the star wheels completely of the paper as it swells, because there is plenty of room for that and the whole starwheel assembly is on a spring loaded mechanism.
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Just for further information, that is the part number for just the rollers. There is an updated one (I don't have it anymore, threw out the paper I wrote it down on) that also includes the new alignment tool.
I had the part number you stated shipped to me - my tech had the new one shipped to him and brought it.
I wonder if it was just a limited test, since I'm the only one that seems to have the new version so far?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177581\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We just popped my rollers in and out using the "strap" spacer. The whole thing took about 10 minutes with no need to realign.
I think that's the way to go...
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Oh believe me, I'm really wishing they had done that to me too...third time's the charm perhaps? LOL
What really makes me wonder, is because the new roller assemblies STILL had to have all the rollers swapped. Both kits I had were new arms with the old style rollers attached like I posted. Then a bag of the new rollers. The new part number simply also included the tool. The arms looked identical to all three of us, so did the rollers. I have no idea, other than possible damage, why they would have a new procedure to swap the assemblies whole. I would image the assemblies didn't have the new rollers already on them simply because they are not a production part yet.
I bet when they get this all sorted out, there will be a third part number, with the new rollers preinstalled on the arms, and the tool.
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Thanks DLS. I'll give the Gloss - Thick settings a try and see if I have any success. Since I'm using sheets right now, I don't have to worry about any star-wheel marks or head strikes on the curved surface of roll paper. Of, course, I've never experienced any star-wheel marks on any paper I've tried...knock on wood!
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
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Thanks DLS. I'll give the Gloss - Thick settings a try and see if I have any success. Since I'm using sheets right now, I don't have to worry about any star-wheel marks or head strikes on the curved surface of roll paper. Of, course, I've never experienced any star-wheel marks on any paper I've tried...knock on wood!
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I hope it works for you.
I'm curious: what do your pinch roller marks normally look like ? For me they were always subtle except in the one case.
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Since the roller upgrade, they are subtle, but visible when the print is looked under bright light, especially at an angle.
Just finished profiling the Harman using the gloss preset and the target printed out nicely. May be the first with this paper without roller marks. I will look at it again tomorrow before I do a test print.
Jim
I hope it works for you.
I'm curious: what do your pinch roller marks normally look like ? For me they were always subtle except in the one case.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Just an update on mine - I just had a call from a 2nd more experienced tech. He had to order his copy of the install tool and will be out tomorrow. He was aware of the issue and even guessed what was happening when I started to tell him the story. He said he was going to call and yell at the other tech (in jest) lol!
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I just set up my new 44" Z and couldn't be happier. Everything profiles great and as long as mechanical problems avoid me, I think this is a fantastic piece of equipment. I'd trade all my house full of Epsons for it if I had to. I also found regular H. Photorag to work just fine and profiles the same.
The only fiber gloss paper I've run through it so far is the Ilford Gold which I really like ( and half the price of Harmon by the way) in all respects. I am seeing occasional roller marks very light, when a lot of ink is laid down, which look like they are from the Gloss Enhancer layer. They are very difficult to see if you are not looking carefully. I just sprayed two light coats of Permier Art spray and they completely disappered. Of coures the whole idea of having a gloss enhancer and this printer is NOT to have to spray gloss prints. But, I'll do this until I find time to have them come over and replace the rollers with the brown ones. I've seen no star wheels so far.
I have all the other gloss fiber papers here including the Harmon, Hahnemuhle, and both Innova surfaces, and will try them as well. I expect the results to be similar.
John
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Update: Since profiling the Harman Gloss FB Al with the Gloss - Standard preset, the first test print looks very good - no roller marks. I raised the starwheel assembly to the high position just to make sure I wouldn't get any paper strikes at all. Of course I used up my last sheets of Harman and cannot do any more prints at this time.
I might give the Ilford Gold Silk a try as it seems to be well liked and performs well on the Z.
Jim
www.jimcolephoto.com
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Blah - the new tech's tool is delayed by FedEx due to airport weather up north. He'll try and come tomorrow if it shows up.
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Oh believe me, I'm really wishing they had done that to me too...third time's the charm perhaps? LOL
What really makes me wonder, is because the new roller assemblies STILL had to have all the rollers swapped. Both kits I had were new arms with the old style rollers attached like I posted. Then a bag of the new rollers. The new part number simply also included the tool. The arms looked identical to all three of us, so did the rollers. I have no idea, other than possible damage, why they would have a new procedure to swap the assemblies whole. I would image the assemblies didn't have the new rollers already on them simply because they are not a production part yet.
I bet when they get this all sorted out, there will be a third part number, with the new rollers preinstalled on the arms, and the tool.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
we had a set of 4 or 5 assemblies that had the old rollers and a bag of individual new rollers as well. he replaced the old rollers on the original assemblies with out removing the original assemblies using the strap all according to the included instructions. also took about 10 mins. our assumption was that the extra included black assemblies were in case some of the originals cracked, broke or were malformed. i gave the extra parts to the field tech since if i needed them he would be the one to put them in anyway. so far no problems. but i have only been using either the hanne. fineart paper or the HP ip gloss. all look great. the GE softens the gloss to look more like air dry which is what i am wanting.
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My new tech read me some of the tool instructions, and it exaplins why the first guy did it incorrectly. The tool is apprantly for holding them and removing the spring on each one, and simply positioning them for tightening the mounting screws. The first guys didn't use it at all for disassembly, and that's probably why they disassembled the whole damn thing. One guy was on top the other on the bottom, to get the springs. I have a feeling this new tech will do it all from above using the tool correctly.
It just doesn't make any sense, if the arms are the same, why they need to be swapped. I'll ask him when he's here.
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it might be good to have the settings you all figure out for the different papers collected and put up here and/or on the z3100 wiki.
it might save a lot of people some frustration. in addition it may indicate to HP that this place can be an excellent resource for them beyond just hearing who hates them and who is fine. After all not even HP can test every type of paper out there.
if you want, you can send the settings ( as complete and specific as possible) along with the name and brand of paper including the part number to me via my username on this site. I will collate them and repost. include any notes or comments/hints and i will add those as well. If there is a paper that simply will not work include it and we can temporarily put it as "not recommended".
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And a big shock, the new tech got his tool but now is understaffed today and can't come out till Monday.
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I'm beginning to feel sorry for these guys.
After 3 hours of trial and error with the tool, which apparently doesn't work all that well, it looks good so far.
When they first arrived, I showed them the problem, and they tried the tool again according to instructions. Well, that fixed the paper jam problem, but on the thin HP paper it reintroduced the head strike.
So they went back to the drawing board and manually put the rollers in a middle ground setting, and both paper types print and feed normally right now.
So if any of you get new parts put in with the tool, be sure to try thick and thin papers before they leave, the installed roller position with the tool may not work for everyone.
I'll be printing more tonight and they will again follow up in a couple days. I'll do so here as well.
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So my z is coming up on a year of ownership with all stock parts. I don't see issues on matte or canvas papers, but there are occasional faint starwheels on the satin stuff I like. I figure I should give HP a call and have them come out and update my printer to the current bugfix release. When I call them, what should I be asking for?
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Take good pictures of the marks you are getting, they will have you email them to them for confirmation, after you tell them you have 'star wheel marks'.
It is NOT a current bugfix release, however. They have not put any of this into production, it's all an a case by case basis until further notice.
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I was sent an email from HP in error which included these files. Nothing new to us, or "secret" stuff from HP but I thought some folks may be interested.
The email also referenced a new Rev 7 firmware due out this month.[attachment=5395:attachment]
I can't attach the 2nd for some reason. It's titled Star Wheel Marks.
Mike
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I was sent an email from HP in error which included these files. Nothing new to us, or "secret" stuff from HP but I thought some folks may be interested.
The email also referenced a new Rev 7 firmware due out this month.[attachment=5395:attachment]
I can't attach the 2nd for some reason. It's titled Star Wheel Marks.
Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179036\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks so much for sharing, Mike.
Have you tried adding the Star Wheel Marks doc in another post?
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It's kind of funny they partially blame environmental conditions, yet mine are in the listed Optimal Range year round.
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Thanks so much for sharing, Mike.
Have you tried adding the Star Wheel Marks doc in another post?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179039\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For some reason I simply cannot get the 2nd doc to appear in the post. I just tried it again. Same result.
One interesting thing in the email that I know many people will be happy about is that the new firmware will stop the job getting canceled when a cartridge runs out.
Mike
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Email the doc to me, and I'll see if I can get it posted for you.
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So my z is coming up on a year of ownership with all stock parts. I don't see issues on matte or canvas papers, but there are occasional faint starwheels on the satin stuff I like. I figure I should give HP a call and have them come out and update my printer to the current bugfix release. When I call them, what should I be asking for?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You should definitely do it before your warranty runs out. One of the first questions they asked me was "when did you purchase ?" when I called for the update.
Maybe in the future they'll offer it to every owner whether in warranty or not, but I don't think that's the case now.
Keep in mind that they'll want to see the marks on HP paper. I think I read somewhere earlier in this thread that someone was able to get the new parts by insisting that the Z3100 was made to work with 3rd party papers, but just save yourself the hassle and answer "yes" when they ask if you're using HP paper. If you're getting the marks they should show on the sample roll glossy that came with the printer. Then shoot some photos of the marks and your in business.
It's worth the hassle. I can honestly say that this printer with the Harman gloss paper makes the best inkjet prints I've ever seen.
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It did not upload because it's 3.6MB and that is larger than the forum attachment limit. I re-encoded it smaller.
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Thanks Bryan,
Mike
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Excuse me for being so blunt but this is a large load of crap that we have to prove to HP that we are using their paper or lie to them to get parts replaced that are clearly defective regardless of whether or not we have the extended warranty.
If a car company were to do the same thing with some defective part they would end up getting sued left and right. Somehow though because this is only a 4 plus 5 printer for the 24 inch model it is ok and we are forced to lie to them saying we only use HP paper of course and yes here are the marks etc. to get this defective part replaced.
Again sorry if this appears to be a rant, but at what point is there some accountability?
best regards
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Excuse me for being so blunt but this is a large load of crap that we have to prove to HP that we are using their paper or lie to them to get parts replaced that are clearly defective regardless of whether or not we have the extended warranty.
If a car company were to do the same thing with some defective part they would end up getting sued left and right. Somehow though because this is only a 4 plus 5 printer for the 24 inch model it is ok and we are forced to lie to them saying we only use HP paper of course and yes here are the marks etc. to get this defective part replaced.
Again sorry if this appears to be a rant, but at what point is there some accountability?
best regards
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179077\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Whoah: It does appear to be a rant.
I hope you're not refering to my post ? If you are, reread it. I said:
"If you're getting the marks they should show on the sample roll glossy that came with the printer. Then shoot some photos of the marks and your in business."
I meant that if you're having problems with marks on any paper, then load the HP paper that came with the printer and they will show there as well. I didn't mean to imply that you should lie. If you want to rant, rant at HP. Someone earlier in the thread apparently ranted until HP agreed to service their printer. If that's your MO have at it. I thought I'd save us non-ranters some hassle by suggesting you look for the marks on HP paper. Of course if you'd rather do it the hard way to prove a point, enjoy.
HP never said you had to ONLY use their paper. They want to see the marks on their paper at this point to do the service call. Yes that's corporate BS, but there is an easy solution. If you're having problems with 3rd party papers, they WILL show up on the HP glossy that came with the printer.
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Hello,
No I wasn't referring to anyone's post it just struck me while I read the whole post how incredible it is that a huge, multi-billion dollar company like HP can put out a product with a clearly defective part and then force its end users to lie and cheat to try and get the product they are paying very good money for fixed so it works with all papers. Why should I only get the fix if I am running HP papers? That is like saying if Toyota put out a car with wheel issues and then attempted to say that only those owners who used Toyota approved tires would get the fix even while cars with both Toyota approved tires and those without were driving off the road because of the wheel defect.
It shows a complete lack of accountability on the part of HP. The machine has a defective part. Whether it affects all users who bought it is not relevant nor should the make of paper we are using affect our ability to get it fixed properly whether in service contract or not as this has been an issue since day 1.
Anyway my apologies I was not attempting to attack any person here. HP needs to do the right thing period.
Best Regards
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HP needs to do the right thing period.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Who says they won't? They just published two new Tech Newsletters on the topic.
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Who says they won't? They just published two new Tech Newsletters on the topic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179184\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Realize that HP cannot possibly test all papers available in all conditions in the ways that all of us will use them. Even Epson has a relatively short list of "tried and true" papers given that their 7xxx/9xxx series as been out for years.
Lest I sound like a champion for HP, I am not. I don't work for them. I don't own stock in them. etc.
I have been in computer graphics since the late 70's and a fine art photographer for over 30 years. I have watched digital systems evolve over a long time.
While I agree that HP did goof re. the marks on their own papers and I strongly feel that they should be responsible to test the most popular archival type papers but not every paper on the market. That may be more in line of the paper manufacturer in collaboration with HP or Epson or Canon.
It use to be that the paper manufacturers were responsible to make sure their surfaces and coatings worked with a specific set of printers. e.g Ilford's earlier gallery papers worked well with dye printers but created a gooey mess with epson's pigment printers such as the 2xxx series.
It is difficult to design an ink set that will print well on all types of sizings and coatings. BUT I do believe that this shouldn't be taken by HP or any one else (e.g. Canon or Epson, et.al.) as an excuse to create a technology set that is extremely narrow and require that the user use ONLY that printer's manufacturer's paper. That would be not only extremely arrogant of them but it would certainly destroy any chance for that printer to become profitable/successful.
my $.02
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If a printer vendor says their printer will except paper up to say 350 gsm and down to whatever then they do have a responsiblity to ensure that papers within those specs work otherwise don't make the claim in the specs to begin with and say only that the printer is supported for HP papers only etc. I am having issues with Hahnemuhle papers. HP has a relationship with Hahnemuhle. The papers I am using are within the specs laid out for the printer. Some prints come out fine. Others have the wonderful pizza wheel marks. HP needs to replace the assembly.
Not meaning to start a issue here, but for those of us who bought these things when they first came out and were nearly 5k a part worth perhaps 200.00 installed should be fixed if we are using papers within specs of what HP said the printer can handle.
I will stop now as again I am not trying to beat HP up nor anyone here. This has been a very helpful place with a group of generally very nice folks.
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Just an update...it's still doing it. It took a couple prints, and then it started snagging again. I don't think they are far enough back yet. The tech has escalated it to HP engineering.
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If a printer vendor says their printer will except paper up to say 350 gsm and down to whatever then they do have a responsiblity to ensure that papers within those specs work otherwise don't make the claim in the specs to begin with and say only that the printer is supported for HP papers only etc. I am having issues with Hahnemuhle papers. HP has a relationship with Hahnemuhle. The papers I am using are within the specs laid out for the printer. Some prints come out fine. Others have the wonderful pizza wheel marks. HP needs to replace the assembly.
Not meaning to start a issue here, but for those of us who bought these things when they first came out and were nearly 5k a part worth perhaps 200.00 installed should be fixed if we are using papers within specs of what HP said the printer can handle.
I will stop now as again I am not trying to beat HP up nor anyone here. This has been a very helpful place with a group of generally very nice folks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not arguing with your points. Of course HP needs to fix this stuff. And of course it's frustrating and somewhat irresponsible on the part of HP HIGHER UPS. Having worked in and with some large corps, I realize that some times the techs online and their supervisors are aware of certain problems but they are restricted from even acknowledging them by the executives higher up. In other words the higher levels of the corporation (for whatever reason) have "classified" the information and ordered the folks in the trenches who are taking the heat to respond in a certain way.
I am simply laying out some bounds to the "universe" of expectations and the huge range of papers coming on the market all the time as well as the "stuff" that some people will try to shove through their printers as an experiment ( I am NOT referring to you Recked )
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The Tech now says he has new instructions from Engineering for using the tool and will schedule another repair time tomorrow.
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OK, after another 2 hours of work by the Techs, they look right to me. Initial tests are again good, I will report back in a couple days again.
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I had my pinch wheels replaced with the tan ones back in novenmber, i was actually the second person in the US to get this 'solution'. Everything has been fine... until yesterday.
Low humidity lately...35-45%...low for Wash DC anyway.
Ran a 36x36 on HP Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art 310 gsm and the roller mark returned. Didnt show on the test but did on the print. The image has a very large solid black area, probably two thirds of the photograph. Thats where the marks are apparent. I know this is an extreme case senario, but its still there and still unacceptable.
I had an HP tech from Idaho come out to do the installation on the tans in nov. He left with my tests still showing a very slight marks, which he took with him and said he would run it by the Barcelona crew and let me know. I emailed him months ago, with no reply...and emailed him again yesterday...that email came back undeliverable.
I guess my point in writing is to let everyone know that maybe this fix is not permanent. I'll be interested to know who else may experience a relapse.
The fine art papers are the only paper on which these marks ever showed. And I haven't, yet, experienced starwheel mark...actually, i take that back...had very slight marks and a tech, not the Idaho guy, but another, oiled the spring on the end of the assembly, and Ive had not problems since. I use primarily Ilford Smooth Pearl.
Another interesting thing...being that I am coming up on my 1 year date, I signed on last night to extend my warranty for one year... they have options for 1, 3, and 5 years i believe. Went through the payment process etc but got no confirmation. Looked today for the warranty choices again and the 1 year warranty option disappeared...spooky?!
Min
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I think Bic is a French company.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Invented by Baron Bich, former challenger of the America's Cup.
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Put in a call to HP yesterday...was told by a tech that the Tans are not meant to be a permanent fix.
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I think you are getting confused with HP's Statement "Permanent" would lead me to believe that the roller and star wheel are changing over time, which doesn’t happen. What changes is condition in weather and environment. HP has no fix for these type of changes. So different people are going to see different results. So just an example. In Florida you are going to see that your media is wetter and will cause an effect that the media is getting saturated with ink, where if you were to have that same printer in a dry area the print would look fine.
The reason that star wheel and roller marks show up more often is because media does curl. This causes the media to bend up and cause issues. Now I know blaming media and condition is the first thing that is blamed.
One way to test this theory is for you to cut a sheet of your roll and turn it 90 degrees. That will take the curl out of the picture.
Now I am not saying that all issue has to do with media curl. I am just stating that is has a big part.
Just my two cents
Put in a call to HP yesterday...was told by a tech that the Tans are not meant to be a permanent fix.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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It has nothing to do with curl.
I fed sheets and decurled rolls though mine for testing - no effect.
In the end I wasted over 50 feet of various papers and ink testing and debugging this problem. I'm supposed to have a roll coming from HP soon as compensation for ink and paper used.
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Every Person is different that is why this issue is hard to wrap around your head. read the post above and you will understand why I made the comment.
The only thing that has changed in Min scenrio is that the humidity is lower.
{Low humidity lately...35-45%...low for Wash DC anyway
Worked since November and now having problems again. }
What you have to remember is every person has different issues, even thou they are same characteristics.
If you look back at all the threads of the roller and star wheel issue. You will see common characteristics but you will also see a wide range off different characteristics.
So if you generalise the issue and dont gather all the information on each individual issue then you are going to make an uneducated guess and that is not going to help the general public, it may help a small few people.
It has nothing to do with curl.
I fed sheets and decurled rolls though mine for testing - no effect.
In the end I wasted over 50 feet of various papers and ink testing and debugging this problem. I'm supposed to have a roll coming from HP soon as compensation for ink and paper used.
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That's *exactly* my point, and why your statement of "The reason that star wheel and roller marks show up more often is because media does curl." is so wrong. #1, it's not fact, #2 it's a false assumption, disproved by those of us that do not have any curl in the paper to begin with and thus is not a variable in the equation.
I'm not going to say exactly what is causing it even under my changing condition, because I don't know. You don't know either, don't pretend to.
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I dont think curl or humidity are sole contributors to the problem. It does seem, by my statement, that I was blaming the humidity or lack thereof. But I was simply stating the facts of the conditions so that people can make their own assessments with regard to their own predicament.
I'm also telling you what HP told me, because this forum is the place to exchange information like that...to do with it what you will.
Personally, I wont drop it with HP.
Even if paper curl was an issue...its still unacceptable. Which is why, months ago, when the tech on the other end of the phone wanted me to feed a piece of flattened paper to see if it were an issue, i said no, because that solution is unacceptable for a roll printer. they said ok. Got a tech out a few days later...although that was still not the right fix at that point.
If Im working with in the parameters of the printer, which I am, that i shouldn't be experiencing any of these issues.
Myself and another both experienced sudden onset of roller marks.
All I know is Ive never had to treat a large format printer like such a princess/prince before. If fluctuations in humidity freaks this printer out...well, too bad for HP....Ive got other options.
Im just glad I extended my warranty.
min
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I completely agree, that no matter the cause, it's unacceptible to have it not work properly under normal conditions with the normal variety of media as other printers have and do.
As long as they are trying to correct the problems in a reasonable manner, I'm willing to work with them to do so.
On a side note I got shipment confirmation of my comp paper today.
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On a side note I got shipment confirmation of my comp paper today.
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You got comp paper?! How?
Every time HP tells me I have to test the issue of the day with HP paper I ask them to send me a roll to use and they won't.
min
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I asked nicely for it, and they fully understood since it took 4 times to fix the problem, and it ate up over $100 in supplies.
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OK, thanks for the jinx! I just got an email that the order was cancelled, and I have to go through another channel to get it reordered - grrr!!!
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...sorry...
but i had asked them one time and they said they would send me a roll and when i called the next day to see when it might come they said 'sorry, we can do that, youll have to buy it... grrr...
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i think some people confuse head strikes with the roller mark issues. they are not at all the same. i wonder if min and kaelaria are speaking of two different problems. do a search on this site and look at the pictures in some of the earlier threads to see the differences.
what solves one usually doesn't solve the other.
i began this thread with the idea of just finding out what was being done regarding what does NOT seem to be a universal problem. looks to me that HP is actually trying to find out exactly what set of factors causes some printers to have this problem when other users in the same general locale don't have this problem. it makes no sense to just start replacing things although it may be frustrating for the user, it doesn't help.
mine, in iowa, seems to be working fine.
we have a tremendous range of climate conditions here. i have had it since May 07. in that time we have had humidity (outside) from 100% to 10%. and Temps from 100* to -21*. in my studio it is not that extreme (heh) but it does fluctuate between livable temps and humidity (i.e. we have heat and a/c. I do not run a humidifier in the winter when it's dry).
i would really NOT like to see this thread become a venting session. it is better if it stays, as min put it, a place for the exchange of information. not a place to exchange venom.
be nice.... and don't tease each other with sticks..
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I received mine on the 14th and set it up on the 15th. Inside my office area, air conditioning on, and on the very first test with the provided instant dry gloss I had roller marks. Talking with HP I had to send photos of the marks before they will set up the appointment and to determine what needs to be replaced.
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I received mine on the 14th and set it up on the 15th. Inside my office area, air conditioning on, and on the very first test with the provided instant dry gloss I had roller marks. Talking with HP I had to send photos of the marks before they will set up the appointment and to determine what needs to be replaced.
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i suspect that they might be getting callers who are mis-identifying the marks and are assuming that it is the same problem when it isn't. this does neither the customer nor hp any good. wastes everyone's time & $$ and keeps everyone chasing in wrong directions when trying to diagnose problems. if an image sent can clear it up it's more efficient in the short and long run.
there are also probably customers out there who simply feel compelled to have a fix installed even if their machine isn't acting up, just in case?
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I received mine on the 14th and set it up on the 15th. Inside my office area, air conditioning on, and on the very first test with the provided instant dry gloss I had roller marks. Talking with HP I had to send photos of the marks before they will set up the appointment and to determine what needs to be replaced.
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I've tried emailing photos to HP tech support on multiple occasions, and they never get anything from me. The techs acknowledge that their email is a labyrinth. Did you email or snail mail the photos to them?
-Ron H.
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HP finally replaced our star wheel assembly after more than month. For some reason they didn't include Rubber pinch wheel SV even if I asked for it.
Interestingly the kit they used seems different to what is described in the techdocs. There is no way to configure the height of starwheels in printer, instead the whole thing is not 100% fixed, so paper can lift it up by itself. I am going to try how it works this weekend, but is this now the official fix or is it one of older attempts for the fix? The person who came with the replacement seemed bit puzzled by the thingy and we unforutnately didn't had chance to check it while he was on place
Honza
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Both the old and new lifts on the springs, that's not new. No the paper does not lift it. If you do not have black tabs on either side that slide out to wedge the unit up, you still have the old version - unless there is now a third, which I doubt. It's pretty common for the techs to accidentially get the old parts for installation.
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Anybody has the HP part numbers of the replacement kit?
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The part number for the new pinch wheel kit is Q5669-67060. The new starwheel assembly for 24 inch (it's called starwheel assembly with actuator 24 SV) is Q5669-67061. The ORIGINAL starwheel assembly is Starwheel Assembly 24 Rev B SV part number Q5669-67804. (This is all for the 24 inch Z3100, I don't know how these part numbers change for the 44 inch).
I was getting starwheel marks on Ilford Gold and pinch wheel marks on Epson Exhibition Fiber. Called HP, sent them pictures of the marks, and got approved for both pinch wheel and starwheel assembly replacement. I received the new pinch wheel kit and the OLD starwheel assembly in 2 days. I told the tech engineer who was supposed to install them that HP sent the old starwheel assembly. He re-ordered the new part. Apparently HP is out of stock on the new starwheel assembly and nobody knows when they will get it in because I've been waiting over 2 weeks!
-John
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I am thinking of replacing my Epson 7600 with an HP Z3100. How can I check the new printer has the latest updates? From the serial number? My guess is I'll just get a blank look if I ask about updates from most UK dealers. I therefore would like to check myself.
Quentin
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Both the old and new lifts on the springs, that's not new. No the paper does not lift it. If you do not have black tabs on either side that slide out to wedge the unit up, you still have the old version - unless there is now a third, which I doubt. It's pretty common for the techs to accidentially get the old parts for installation.
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You are right. After returning home I found out that the thing indeed lifts on springs I didn't noticed previously. Just the black tabs (from tech newsletter) seems to be missing, so there is no way to adjust the height at all. Sadly the technician took original part and the wrapping away so I am not sure if the original part was on springs too or if he simply forget to include the tabs. I also can't check the part no. I will probably give it a try with my innova paper and see how the starwheel marks looks now and will try to lift it on sides by some support.
I however today got headstrikes on HP Litho paper that always worked perfectly before, so I think it is related to the new part. It is however possible that I've curled the paper more than usually when removing the roll, after printing about 60cm the problems apparently disappeared. HP called us again that new parts are on the way and coming next week. Either it is the roller mark fix or the missing black tabs
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I thought Ben Wolf was going to get to the bottom of this 2 months ago and get back to us?
john
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Any Updates people... it as it a ghost town..:+}
Snook
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Any Updates people... it as it a ghost town..:+}
Snook
On Friday, I spoke with an HP telephone tech who admitted, finally, that "starwheel marks are an aspect of this otherwise fine product." Of course, there's an interesting Catch 22 in the "otherwise fine product." The on-board spectro was supposed to make it easy to use a variety of papers without having to make or buy profiles. Problem is, if you use almost any glossy/satin paper, you'll get starwheel marks in the dark (or not so dark) areas.
I've had the new pinch roller and starwheels installed and it makes a little difference, but not enough. I can't print on the new Ilford, Harman, or Hahnemuhle glossy/semi-gloss papers, so what's the point of the spectro?
Neil Snape wrote in a post elsewhere that if you've got starwheels, you've got marks. I checked my Epson 3800 and saw them there as well--but lighter than on the Z3100!
I've also read that HP Pro Satin presents no problems at all, and have ordered a roll. I'd prefer to print on Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but it's simply unusable. Which reminds me that Michael R still uses and likes that paper. I wonder if he's found a workaround on the Z3100 or if he's doing all his printing on a machine with a vacuum transport (i.e. Epson).
Terry
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If you still have warranty time remaining, it would be good to have a tech come look at the height of the wheels when printing.
The degree of the pinwheel marks shouldn't be that visible that it makes the papers unusable, especially since you have the new wheel assembly. I have some Silk here and will have to try, yet I'm almost sure in your case the wheels must be too tight.
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Terry,
Have you considered the HP Baryte Satin or the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryte?
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If you still have warranty time remaining, it would be good to have a tech come look at the height of the wheels when printing.
The degree of the pinwheel marks shouldn't be that visible that it makes the papers unusable, especially since you have the new wheel assembly. I have some Silk here and will have to try, yet I'm almost sure in your case the wheels must be too tight.
I'm anxious to see what you come up with. The marks on the Silk aren't particularly visible with flat frontal light but in raking light they pop right out.
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Terry,
Have you considered the HP Baryte Satin or the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryte?
Ron,
Tried both PR Baryta and the FineArt Baryta. Was pleased to see less gloss diff than on the Ilford Silk but, in raking light, the starwheel marks popped out. It may be that, as a previous Epson 7xxx user, I'm too picky with the HP. However, when the person curating a new exhibit of some recent work held a large print under a 4700K spot and asked "What're those marks?", I didn't feel great.
Terry
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Terry,
Thanks for the report. That's good to know.