CS3 Release-Installation Nightmare!

[Schewe]

I had an issue with Photoshop CS (not CS2 or CS3) with my newly acquired Epson 7600 a few years ago. The printer had a tendency to stop printing before it was supposed to, cutting off a few inches of the image but not the paper, on really large prints like 24x36".
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Yeah, well that WAS a com problem with the Epson drivers and spool files...and yes, Q Image bypasses the com from app to driver...was this via Ethernet BTW?


And, to further the discussion a bit, I can tell you that both Mac and Win now behave the same in that the OS set default printer by default will always show up in the "Print" dialog as the default printer. Switching the default printer to another printer causes Photoshop CS3 to default to THAT printer...which is, arguably, technically correct behavior-which does have the upside that whatever your printer default is set to, you can be assured that that printer will be the selected printer in the drop down and that printer will also be the default printer set in Page Setup-which on the Mac used to be a real problem.

So, while the drop down menus of printer and page setup are as per defaults, the rest of the "Print" delog DOES save out when you select done...things such as CM settings, position, scaling, etc are saved in the file and these settings can also be recorded in an action.

Different than CS2? Yes...better or worse? I think the argument can be made that the current CS3 behavior os "correct".

Still don't know about the print centering...

[Ray]

Yeah, well that WAS a com problem with the Epson drivers and spool files...and yes, Q Image bypasses the com from app to driver...was this via Ethernet BTW?
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Now that you mention it, I might have had an ethernet connection to another computer in place at the time, but the images I printed would have resided on the same computer as Photoshop CS.

The reason I mention this is that Qimage would seem to be an ideal work-around for Mark. He could have his most used, business type printer as the default for use from CS3 and his Epson 4800 as the default within the Qimage program.

This arrangement (I suspect) would not only solve his problem but would provide additional functionality for his fine art printing; a win/win situation at minimal cost.

[Schewe]

Still don't know about the print centering...
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Seems like if one sets (for the 4800) the Paper config to Maximum and select Centered, then the print will have 4 equal margins in the Win Epson dlog as well as in the Print dlog. I haven't actually PRINTED to the 4800 from the PC yet cause at the moment, the 4800 isn't connected to the network.

If you set the Printable area to Standard without the centered in the print driver, you see the unequal margins with more at the bottom and less on the sides and top...is that what you see Mark?

For some reason I can't see where, in the Win Epson 4800 driver (ver 5.53) to set page margins...it is there in the Mac Page Setup. In the Win Page Setup, the margins are greyed out...hum.

[Mark D Segal]

I'm not saying anything other that 1) the print centering issue is, I believe a function of the standard Epson page size & margins being unequal that perhaps, on Win was a "bug or feature" that fell on the positive side for Win users in the past where it fell against Mac users...

...and 2) that arguably, if a printer is designated as "DEFAULT" that an application should respect the default designation-which on the Mac, it does in Photoshop CS3-whatever printer is set as default shows up by default in the Print command of CS3.

Which-even if _YOU_ don't like it, seems to be "correct behavior".

And to be honest, there _IS_ a bug in Mac OS X 10.4.x and Epson's drivers, that REQUIRES that the printer I want to print to be set as the "default" printer to avoid ColorSync from artificially (and incorrectly) taging an image with a profile. So, since I had already got into the habit of setting whatever printer I was printing to as default, this issue simply doesn't aggravate me the way it seems to piss you guys off.  And I might point out that the default printer bug is an OS X/Epson print driver issue, not an Adobe issue.
Yeah, right...your were what, "just saying"?

Sounded like you were saying that _YOU_ didn't have any "beholden" status, unlike other posters in the thread...which means who exactly in this thread DOES have a "beholden" status....Rick? Lust4Life, BlasR, kenscott30, pss, Jae_Moon, Kenneth Sky, Carol, EricM, DarkPenguin, ARD, Colorwave, Kirk Gittings? So who among those who have posted to this thread did you want to separate yourself from? Cause the way you said it sure sounds like you don't want to be confused with somebody else...

I'm just saying...
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Jeff:

(a) Beholden: I was not speaking in reference to any one in this thread. I was positioning myself period. If you wish to feel targeted be my guest but that was not the intention. As I said before, let us move beyond that and stick with the real issues.

Default printer status: Regardless of the etiology of the problem, it is DUMB programming to require users to reset the printer after each print. I have used two printers - one office, one photographic since I first started using Photoshop in 1999 with PS6 and an Epson 2000P. Since then I graduated up to CS3, through an Epson 4000 and now a 4800. As long as Photoshop was kept open it was NEVER necessary to reset the printer after each print even without selecting the photo printer as the default and shouldn't be required now, period. I don't give a sweet damn whether it's called a bug, correct behaviour or incorrect behaviour, it's just STUPID. OK, I can work around it by setting Epson as the default printer every time I wish to print photographs. Then set the HP back to the default for the rest of time that I'm doing other things. This is a needless nuissance which shouldn't be necessary. It's regress not progress.

[c] Print centering: I already told you in post 43 that it is possible to manually adjust the margins to equality in the Printer dialogue box. It is a chore because you need to know the size of the equal margin for each print (I size to suit the picture - I don't force-fit images into standard sizes), so for each print I need to subtract the image dimensions from the paper dimensions, divide by two and put each of the two dimension's measurements in the two boxes under the unchecked "Centered" section for this to work correctly, because Centered, contrary to what it says isn't Centered. Again, I'm not interested in the semantics of whether this is a bug, or correct, or incorrect. It is more work than it should be. Something that says centered should center the image. In CS2 the image is centered if the Epson driver says "Centered" - in Windows. If Epson and Mac got this wrong for Mac that has nothing to do with Adobe as you say, but the CS3/Windows trouble has everything to do with Adobe because in Windows this only went askew with CS3 - not for the 8 years before CS3 that I have been centering prints with Epson printers, Windows operating systems and Epson drivers through ALL their incarnations.  A very high percentage of the paying clientele for Photoshop CS3 would be on Epson printers - many of them Pro model printers, and roughly 40~50% of the imaging community is now on Windows. So it would behove Adobe to make sure when they issue a new software up-grade that what worked properly "forever" in the past continues to work properly for that clientele in the future. If it means preserving this functionality through their own programming fine, if it means collaborating with Epson to make sure it works as it used to work, that is fine too. But it needs to be done. The present situation is completely impractical.

[Mark D Segal]

Seems like if one sets (for the 4800) the Paper config to Maximum and select Centered, then the print will have 4 equal margins in the Win Epson dlog as well as in the Print dlog. I haven't actually PRINTED to the 4800 from the PC yet cause at the moment, the 4800 isn't connected to the network.

If you set the Printable area to Standard without the centered in the print driver, you see the unequal margins with more at the bottom and less on the sides and top...is that what you see Mark?

For some reason I can't see where, in the Win Epson 4800 driver (ver 5.53) to set page margins...it is there in the Mac Page Setup. In the Win Page Setup, the margins are greyed out...hum.
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Hi Jeff,

OK I went into it all again. Here is the situation for CS3/Windows XP/Epson 4800 native driver:

Page Set-Up under the File menu in Photoshop: you can't center anything in Page set-up - as you say - the numbers are greyed out. They are determined elsewhere.

The Epson Driver: you have a choice in the Paper tab of using either Centered or not. There is no fine-tuning of margins in the Epson Driver. If you use Centered, up to but not including CS3 it did that. If you didn't use Centered in the Epson driver the positioning of the page was determined in Photoshop in Print with Preview.

In the Epson Driver Paper tab: it doesn't matter whether you select the maximum or the standard printing area, the problem remains the same. I tried that. It does matter whether or not you choose "Centered" in the Epson Driver. If you want centered prints in CS2 you leave it active, and in CS3, as I said in Post 43, you must disable it. Disabling it helps improve the centering in Photoshop "Print" a great deal, but not entirely. The left and right margins are OK, but the top and bottom ones are not - be it portrait or landscape orientation. These need to be tweaked manually in the Photoshop Printer window one image at a time by keeping "Centered" unchecked in both this window and the Epson driver and in Photoshop "Print" manually inserting correct values in the "Top" and "Left" boxes under the Centered option. Now here's the rub: unless you do that, while the print will look quite well-centered in the Photoshop Print Window, it does not print that way.

I hope the foregoing clarifies for you exactly what is happening. I suggest that you will get a better handle on this issue first hand if you fire-up your 4800 on your PC and take it all for a thorough test drive. Then, please let us know your findings. If you find a practical way of automatically centering a print with Windows XP/Epson 4800/CS3 you will be doing many people a substantial favour.

[Mark D Segal]

Now that you mention it, I might have had an ethernet connection to another computer in place at the time, but the images I printed would have resided on the same computer as Photoshop CS.

The reason I mention this is that Qimage would seem to be an ideal work-around for Mark. He could have his most used, business type printer as the default for use from CS3 and his Epson 4800 as the default within the Qimage program.

This arrangement (I suspect) would not only solve his problem but would provide additional functionality for his fine art printing; a win/win situation at minimal cost.
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Thanks Ray - I've heard very good things about QImage, as well as its very reasonable price. This may be something to look into if Adobe doesn't implement an efficient solution for all those people concerned with the problems.

[Mark D Segal]

Yeah, well that WAS a com problem with the Epson drivers and spool files...and yes, Q Image bypasses the com from app to driver...was this via Ethernet BTW?
And, to further the discussion a bit, I can tell you that both Mac and Win now behave the same in that the OS set default printer by default will always show up in the "Print" dialog as the default printer. Switching the default printer to another printer causes Photoshop CS3 to default to THAT printer...which is, arguably, technically correct behavior-which does have the upside that whatever your printer default is set to, you can be assured that that printer will be the selected printer in the drop down and that printer will also be the default printer set in Page Setup-which on the Mac used to be a real problem.

So, while the drop down menus of printer and page setup are as per defaults, the rest of the "Print" delog DOES save out when you select done...things such as CM settings, position, scaling, etc are saved in the file and these settings can also be recorded in an action.

Different than CS2? Yes...better or worse? I think the argument can be made that the current CS3 behavior os "correct".

Still don't know about the print centering...
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Jeff,

It is normal behaviour based on the past eight years' experience, and common sense, that if the non-Epson printer is the default, when you launch your first print in Photoshop, you need to select the Epson printer. Once selected, it should stay selected until you quit Photoshop, not only until you finish the first print. As I said before in regard to this item, I'm not going to prolong a debate about what is correct or not correct; I'm focused on the regression from practical operability in the past to impractical operability in the present.

[Schewe]

[c] Print centering: I already told you in post 43 that it is possible to manually adjust the margins to equality in the Printer dialogue box.
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I followed up by asking whether you had tried setting the 4800 Print Driver settings to Maximum/Centered AND selected Centered in Photoshop's Print dlog? Have you?

I don't have my 4800 up and connected to my network but I do have a 3800 hardwired to the PC...I'll see what happens on the 3800 & CS3.

And my, may I add that your panties sure seem like they're in a bunch?

:~)

[Schewe]

Well, I can confirm that with the Epson 3800 on Win, XP SP/2 and Photoshop CS3 that if, in the Photoshop Print dlog, I select "Centered" it prints in the center...at least to an accuracy equal to a ruler...I haven't got a micrometer out yet...

In the 3800 driver Page settings there is no "Centered" radio button nor a Standard or Maximum settings...all there is is a drop down for Paper Source, (with a Borderless check box), Paper Size drop down (with a user defined option but with no paper margins), a Copies settings and and Orientation settings with Landscape, Portrait and 180 setting.

No Centered option in the driver anywhere...

Getting the 4800 up and running ias gonna take a bit...sorry.

P.S. Yes, setting the default printer to the 3800 allows it to show up as the pre-selected printer in the CS3 dlog. And yes, the non-print driver settings (CM, etc) are sticky per image...

[Mark D Segal]

I followed up by asking whether you had tried setting the 4800 Print Driver settings to Maximum/Centered AND selected Centered in Photoshop's Print dlog? Have you?

I don't have my 4800 up and connected to my network but I do have a 3800 hardwired to the PC...I'll see what happens on the 3800 & CS3.

And my, may I add that your panties sure seem like they're in a bunch?

:~)
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Hi Jeff,

We're crossing messages. Yes, my " "panties" are in a bunch" because I dislike all this confusion when all I want to do is get a f..cken print in the middle of a piece of paper like I did for the past eight years until today. Time is too valuable for all this needless confusion. When a $700 program operating with a $2400 printer and a $5000 computer says the print will be centered it damn well better be centered, otherwise it will tend to "put my "panties" in a bunch". [But the pain is cerebral - not where you are alluding to (:-)]

Back to real business:

In messages 43 and 65 I mentioned that I've tried all this every which way, and I indicated the results. To answer again your specific question - my findings today indicate that you should not double-manage centering between the Photoshop Print dialogue and the Epson Driver dialogue. I got the best results today by [a] NOT selecting Centered in the Epson Driver selecting either standard or maximum print area - that makes no difference, and [c] Not selecting Centered in Photoshop because it doesn't do what it says eventhough it looks that way, but rather [d] manually entering the correct margin sizes for top and left. It is after midnight here now, so I'm going to hang-off and re-try all of this again tomorrow morning once I have the printer back-on. I'll let you know whether all this replicates as stated.

[Schewe]

I'm focused on the regression from practical operability in the past to impractical operability in the present.
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Well, that argument cuts both ways...I have 6 printers...there are times (usually) that I will print only to a single printer and I'll be printing a bunch of same sized prints. It could be argued that CS2's behavior was more convenient for this in that Photoshop, as an app, would bypass the "default" printer and continue printing to the alternative printer selected...one could also argue that if you are going to be spending a lot of time printing to only one printer, that it makes sense to set THAT printer as default.


That could go either way...

Now, occasionally, when printing a show I'll be printing to both my 7800 (set up with Matte ink) and my 9800 (set up with Photo K) depending on what paper I'm printing to...in this case, the old sticky by Photoshop CS2 behavior was a pain because I would ALWAY have to re-select, manually each time I printed. In this case, I had to do that by actually manually selecting the printer...in CS3 that hasn't changed but now I can to that from the Photoshop CS3 print dlog, not the OS level-well, ok, with the 10.4.x bug I STILL have to go back and change the default printer on Mac but that's not Photoshop's fault.

So, in the grand scheme of things, the current behavior really doesn't seem to be a major problem.

I have emailed the engineer primarily responsible for the CS3 Print dlog to ask some questions...we'll see what (or if) he says anything regarding behaviors.

[Mark D Segal]

Well, I can confirm that with the Epson 3800 on Win, XP SP/2 and Photoshop CS3 that if, in the Photoshop Print dlog, I select "Centered" it prints in the center...at least to an accuracy equal to a ruler...I haven't got a micrometer out yet...

In the 3800 driver Page settings there is no "Centered" radio button nor a Standard or Maximum settings...all there is is a drop down for Paper Source, (with a Borderless check box), Paper Size drop down (with a user defined option but with no paper margins), a Copies settings and and Orientation settings with Landscape, Portrait and 180 setting.

No Centered option in the driver anywhere...

Getting the 4800 up and running ias gonna take a bit...sorry.

P.S. Yes, setting the default printer to the 3800 allows it to show up as the pre-selected printer in the CS3 dlog. And yes, the non-print driver settings (CM, etc) are sticky per image...
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Hi Jeff,

This is interesting - seems from your evidence that there is a distinct difference of behaviour between the 3800 and the 4800 and the printer drivers are different. This could perhaps suggest that CS3 for Windows was designed around the 3800 driver but not the 4800 driver, which I believe is also similar to the 7800/9800 driver. As mentioned, I'll do further testing in the morning and report back. I know activating a 4800 can be a drag if you haven't used it for a while - but don't worry about declogging it etc. You don't need to print. All you need to do is turn the machine on and in the Main tab select "Preview". When you click Print, it will spool the file to the printer and pull up the Epson Preview, which shows faithfully where the image sits on the paper.

[Mark D Segal]

..........
So, in the grand scheme of things, the current behavior really doesn't seem to be a major problem.

I have emailed the engineer primarily responsible for the CS3 Print dlog to ask some questions...we'll see what (or if) he says anything regarding behaviors.
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Well, unless we find some combination of settings that systematically centers the pictures correctly (OK I'm not talking micro-milimeters) it is a big time-waster when one's images don't have uniform dimensions, which for me is normal - unless I revert to CS2 for printing, which "faute de mieux" may be the easiest fix.

I am very pleased - and thank you very much - for contacting the appropriate person in Adobe for discussion of this issue. Let us hope he/she responds and can help.

[Schewe]

I know activating a 4800 can be a drag if you haven't used it for a while - but don't worry about declogging it etc. You don't need to print.

Well, I have this thing about turning a printer on and then NOT printing...so I had to do a power clean and go through the normal gyrations of trying to get a friggin' printer up on my network-I can print using Epson AppleTalk pretty easy but getting a reserved address working on my DHCP server is a b!tch and using EpsonNet config on Win ain't easy either...

So, you want the good news or the bad news? I'm using Epson Win 5.5.3 driver over my Ethernet network. From the Photoshop CS3 Print dlog, I select the "Default" printer (yeah, ok, the 4800 is now the Default). In the Page Setup I select advanced, save setup under Mode: Custom and I've saved out a setting that is Luster paper, 1440, highspeed, Printer Color Management is off. Under Paper I've selected 8.5 x 11. Portrait under orientation and under Printable area Standard and Maximum are greyed out but I do select "Centered" in the setting.

In the CS3 Print dlog, I see both the top and bottom margins the same...I select Center then select Scale to fit media, then I hit print. A dlog comes up with my installed printers and the 4800 is highlighted. I click on Preferences to make sure the settings are correct...I notice that the Mode is NOT set to my custom settings, so I select from the dropdown...I click on the paper settings and yes, those are all as I set including the Centered button selected...I click ok, then click Print...it prints and then I measure both the top/bottom margins.

Top margin: 17/32nds (.53125)
Bottom margin: 18/32nds (.5625)

But. ..when I measure the entire page, the cut length is just a bit shy of 11" exactly. I don't have an accurate foot ruler (I was using a mic to measure the margins) but it looks to be about 1/32nds shy of 11 inches.

So, is +- 1/32 considered "Centered"?

Just for yucks, I printed the same image from Photoshop CS2....same printer, same settings, ie: Centered in the print driver and centered in the CS2 Print with Preview and also selecting Scale to Fit...results?

Top margin: 17/32nds (.53125)
Bottom margin: 18/32nds (.5625)
(seriously, same margin measurements)

So, the good news is I can print centered (pretty much if +- 1/32nds" counts) from Photoshop CS3 to _MY_ 4800. The bad news is that you don't seem to be able to.

Your milage may vary (apparently is is).

It's now 2:00AM Central and I'm outta here.
(ya see the lengths I'm willin' to go through for you guys....jeeesh and the crap I get)

:~)

P.S. BTW, just to confirm the Firmware on my 4800 is the current A01868 posted on 12/07/06

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Jeff,

I see from the time of morning you posted these results you went at it with great gusto and determination, and may have resolved it. Half-past midnight I decided to let it all hang-over till this morning and have another go at it today. In principle I should be able to replicate your results, so I shall follow your recipe and see what happens. I'll let you know. Meanwhile a great many thanks for taking the time and trouble to research it into the wee hours of the morning.

Cheers,

Mark

[Kirk Gittings]

Anyone having an issue with Bridge failing to load and crashing their system? After a few days of everything working fine bridge began fail to load. After a reinstall, everytime I try to start Bridge it crashes the system. This is on my PC, XP. mac Book Pro works fine.

[Mark D Segal]

Anyone having an issue with Bridge failing to load and crashing their system? After a few days of everything working fine bridge began fail to load. After a reinstall, everytime I try to start Bridge it crashes the system. This is on my PC, XP. mac Book Pro works fine.
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Yes - partly. I'm using XP Professional SP2 on a Dell Precision 690 Workstation. Yesterday I had two episodes of Brige 3 failing to load. Then when I tried to load Bridge 2 immediately thereafter, it failed to load as well. Neither instances caused my computer to freeze or crash. Bridges simply failed to respond. At first I thought there was an interference with the shortcuts working, so I went straight to the Program File itself, clicked on the "exe", and that didn't help. I solved the problem by restarting the computer in each instance. When I see this happening, it means that something I'm doing with the computer between Bridge sessions is causing Bridge to not respond. Lot's of luck finding out what - it would mean a careful tracking of operations one by one, attempting to restart Bridge after each operation to find the offending operation. Life is too short for that, but it would probably help Adobe fix the issue if someone did it. By the way, this NEVER happened to me before installing CS3.

[Kirk Gittings]

By the way, this NEVER happened to me before installing CS3.

Me too. Up to this I was impressed with the improvements to Bridge.

[Schewe]

By the way, this NEVER happened to me before installing CS3.
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Boy, you guys sure have short memories...

When Photoshop CS2 shipped with Bridge 1.0.0 it was unusable, routinely crashed, lack stated functionality and basically sucked. It wasn't until Bridge 1.01 update was released (within the same quarter that CS2 shipped) that Bridge became usable and it wasn't until Bridge 1.0.4 until it was really stable.

I suspect that there will be an update for Bridge CS3 fairly soon...

[bjanes]

Anyone having an issue with Bridge failing to load and crashing their system? After a few days of everything working fine bridge began fail to load. After a reinstall, everytime I try to start Bridge it crashes the system. This is on my PC, XP. mac Book Pro works fine.
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On my PC with dual Xeon processors and XP Pro, Bridge did work fine, but today I noted it failed to load from Photoshop or by itself. I attempted to repair the installation, and the installer could not continue since it detected Bridge already running. However Bridge was not open, nor did it appear in the tray. Task manager revealed that it was indeed running and I then halted the program. Then a repair was not needed and things are currently working properly.

Bill

PS I spoke too soon the problem just recurred when I attempted to start Bridge from the desktop, but responded to the the same solution.