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Colorwave

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« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2007, 12:51:02 am »

Quote
After making a print, the printer driver returns to default settings.  In my case, it returns me to my default printer, a monochrome laser.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115915\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
FWIW:  The new version works as it always has for me and remembers the last printer and settings.
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Rick Popham

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« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2007, 05:06:31 am »

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FWIW:  The new version works as it always has for me and remembers the last printer and settings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you using a Mac?  This seems to be Windows-specific.

Rick
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2007, 03:51:32 pm »

Further to post #38 in this thread I have now finished testing the Print module in Photoshop CS3 using Windows XP Pro SP2, and I regret to report that it is thoroughly defective - and for my purposes unusable. I have two printers - an HP business inkjet for non-photographic printing, and an Epson 4800 for photographic printing. The HP is the default printer because it gets used more routinely.

(1) Each time I bring up a new image to print, it defaults to the HP printer rather than keeping the Epson 4800 active as long as Photoshop is kept open. With CS2, once the Epson 4800 was selected for the first print, that printer remained selected until Photoshop was shut down. This is logical. CS3 does not respect this logical convention, creating a major interference with batch printing.

(2) Otherwise, all one's colour management and Epson driver settings are retained as one had specified them from image to image and from one Photoshop session to another, except for the orientation of the paper.

(3) The Photoshop CS3 print command cannot automatically center a print no matter what I do with it. The problem is very severe if in the Epson driver one has "Centered" selected in the Paper tab. I turned this feature off in the Epson driver, and that improved but did not rectify the centering problem in the CS3 Print window. (In CS2 it is not necessary to disable "Centered" - in fact to get centered prints one selects it - as one would expect, while at the same time Photoshop is managing colors.) By turning "Centered" off in the Epson driver using CS3, the left and right borders are approximately equal, but the top and bottom ones are not, whether one is printing Landscape or Portrait. To equalize the top and bottom borders, it is necessary to deselect Center in the CS3 Print window, and manually tweak the "top" amount of inches until it looks centered in the preview window. This of course is completely unsatisfactory for an efficient workflow and represents a major reduction of application functionality compared with CS2.

It would appear to me that Adobe was trying to improve the management of print settings by centralizing all the necessary adjustments in one window, as one finds in some RIPs, however regardless of the good intentions, my evidence suggests that this effort was botched, inadequately tested before release, and goes down the same road as many other good intentions, for those who know the expression.

(4) What makes matters even worse, is that once my image is "processed" through the CS3 Print module, some instructions stick to it that prevent me from being able to get a centered print in CS2 as well. Hence, anyone using the CS3 Print Module at least for an Epson 4800 printer on a Windows XP O/S needs to be aware of the risk that running images through this module will cause permanent impairment of automatic print centering for all such images. To be sure this is clearly understood, let me clarify, that as long as an image has not been contaminated by the Photoshop CS3 Print module, I can open it in CS2 and print it properly centered, automatically in the usual way I did before CS3 ever appeared on my computer. As soon as I process the image through the CS3 Print module, this functionality evaporates in both CS3 and CS2. Therefore until this problem is remedied in CS3, the only safe way to retain automated printing functionality is to close the images once adjusted in CS3, and re-open them in CS2 for printing.

Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that insofar as other users similarly equipped (Epson driver and Windows XP) experience the same issues, PSCS3 was released prematurely with inadequate testing in respect of this very important function. It is now incumbent on Adobe to repair both these defects (retaining the selected printer through a Photoshop session, and automatic accurate print centering) as soon as they possibly can. It is indeed hard to understand how such sophisticated companies with their minions of testers and QC people produce these screw-ups, but there we have it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Kenneth Sky

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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2007, 04:32:10 pm »

Mark DS
It sounds like you and many early purchasers of CS 3 have been turned into "gamma" testers. The experiences described on this thread have frozen my decision to stay "as is" with CS 2 and just play with the CS 3 until it expires. Then I'm worried how I get the latter fully off my iMac G5  
Ken
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Schewe

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« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2007, 04:33:05 pm »

What happens if you set the Epson 4800 to be the default?
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2007, 04:40:19 pm »

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Mark DS
It sounds like you and many early purchasers of CS 3 have been turned into "gamma" testers. The experiences described on this thread have frozen my decision to stay "as is" with CS 2 and just play with the CS 3 until it expires. Then I'm worried how I get the latter fully off my iMac G5  
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115992\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Ken,

Quite frankly, I don't regret buying and installing CS3 regardless of this mess with printing, because there is a viable work-around as I suggested - don't use it. Go back to CS2 for printing. But the rest of CS3 is a great piece of work, and I had no issues (on Windows) un-installing the Beta and installing the commercial release - as I reported earlier. What I like most about CS3 is the new Camera Raw. It is a huge leap forward relative to the version in CS2. As for your Beta CS3, it is expired. In principle you should no longer be able to get into it - as of May 2nd.

Cheers,

Mark
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Kenneth Sky

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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2007, 04:45:20 pm »

Mark
In which case I'll dump the beta. I have to wait for the new HP plug-in for the B9180 anyways. As for ACR 4, there's always LR.
Ken
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2007, 04:46:44 pm »

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What happens if you set the Epson 4800 to be the default?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff, I didn't try that for two reasons: (a) it would be an impractical set-up for me, and I fully expect it would solve the "Default Printer" issue in CS3, because it would be the Default printer and the behaviour of the Print module as it presently stands seems to be that it always defaults to the default printer. So it would solve one operational problem for printing photographs in a way that I don't find practical relative to other things I do, and shouldn't have to live with. Next time I fire-up the printer I can test it and let you know, but I would be very surprised if the answer were otherwise.

I also doubt very much it would do anything at all for the print centering issue. That would logically seem to be a completely different algorithm, but again, next session I'll give it a whirl on an expendable image with the 4800 as default.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 04:47:28 pm by MarkDS »
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2007, 04:50:21 pm »

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Mark
In which case I'll dump the beta. I have to wait for the new HP plug-in for the B9180 anyways. As for ACR 4, there's always LR.
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115995\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ken, that's true - the LR Develop module nd ACR 4 are essentially the same thing. But if you want to do stuff that LR doesn't do, then you still need to export the images to PS. I guess you could then re-import them to LR for printing after soft-proofing them in CS3, because LR doesn't have a soft-proof feature - yet.

By the way, how to you like your B9180?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schewe

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« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2007, 05:05:59 pm »

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I also doubt very much it would do anything at all for the print centering issue. That would logically seem to be a completely different algorithm, but again, next session I'll give it a whirl on an expendable image with the 4800 as default.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, print centering has been a longstanding issue for Epsons on Macs...the way around that for Mac has always been to creat a custom paper size with all four margins set equal. The default for the 4800 is (I think) left/right .13, top 1.3 and bottom .56. So, I create custom page sizes so that all 4 margins are set to .56. (actually, I set all four to be 1" cause I prefer to always have at least a 1" border).

This has been a long standing issue because for the purposes of paper grabbing, Epsons have always had uneven margins. I think the default for the 3800 however was changed so that all four margins are equal.

As far as the "Default" printer issue...one wonders if it isn't a situation where CS3 finally has it right? Arguably, one sets a default print for a purpose, no? So that apps will default to a specific printer? One could argue that CS2's behavior was actually a bug not a feature.
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Rick Popham

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« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2007, 06:00:15 pm »

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As far as the "Default" printer issue...one wonders if it isn't a situation where CS3 finally has it right? Arguably, one sets a default print for a purpose, no? So that apps will default to a specific printer? One could argue that CS2's behavior was actually a bug not a feature.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116001\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There are so many ways to respond to this...

I better just say "Wow!"

Rick
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Schewe

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« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2007, 06:02:09 pm »

Well...what is the ppurpose of "Default" if not to be DEFAULT? Ya know?

Is it better or worse? Don't know...but it is different, I agree. And different, it seems isn't always better to everybody.
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2007, 06:40:51 pm »

Jeff,

I'm not beholden to any Corporation so I can call the shots as I see them, and that's what I am doing.

(1) I am familiar with the print centering problem for Epson/Mac. Just because print centering was a MESS between Epson and Apple on the Mac is no reason why it should also be a mess between CS3 and Windows when it works perfectly well with CS2 and Windows, where the margins delivered by the Epson driver are fine. Adobe simply "f.cked-up" on this and they should fix it.

(2) As for the default printer business, CS2 had it right. Once you call up an application and select a printer, the application should retain that printer until you close the application, not only until you finish making one photograph with the application - otherwise it makes nonsense of the program's automation features and the workflow efficiency Adobe has been striving to improve. The application - until this version - was smart enough to know that until you close it, you will use the same printer to make more prints one after another so it retained the correct printer. Of course, once you close the application and re-open it - you must select the non-default printer, but thenceforth in the same session that selection should stick, and until CS3 it did. This is so elementary that it shouldn't bear a moment's worth of argument. Again, Adobe simply "f.cked-up" on this and they should fix it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schewe

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« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2007, 06:54:09 pm »

Both of your answers are non-answers...

Did you try creating a custom paper size with 4 equal margins?

While you CLAIM that CS2 on Win was "correct" the question is, was it? If the paper reported unequal margins (as it does on Mac) and Photoshop is set to center in the printable area, shouldn't the image be offset by the difference in the printer margin?

And, as to the default issue, again, while that's the way it was...you don't answer the question of isn't that what a default is supposed to do? Be the friggin' default?

"I'm not beholden to any Corporation so I can call the shots as I see them, and that's what I am doing. "

Ah, there it is...disregard any answer from me that you don't like because you presume that I'm beholding? Thought you knew me better than that bud? I guess I know where YOU stand, huh?

So, just to be clear, you claim the default and center issue are bugs, correct? Therefore you think CS3 is unusable for printing?

Well, ok, you got 30 days to get your money back...or, you can try what I suggest and see if it works?

I think what you are seeing is a fundimental change where in CS3, it behaves like a combination of the old "Print" command plus the old "Print with Preview" command...as there is no longer any options, the current Print command (and it's issues) seems to be now blended with application options that you don't seem to like. The question is, can you work around them?
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Rick Popham

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« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2007, 07:25:08 pm »

OK.  I set my R1800 as the default printer.  Here's the behavior:

I set up the printer with my usual settings for a sheet of 13x19 Enhanced Matte, high speed off, icm off, etc.  Made the print, which BTW, centered perfectly.  I haven't had the centering issues on the R1800, but I haven't fired up the 3800 yet.

After the print was finished, I selected File/Print again (for the same file).  Photoshop remembered the printer settings.  I closed the file and opened a different one.  The printer was remembered (I had set it as default), but none of the printer settings were remembered.  Settings reverted to "plain paper", 8.5 x 11, etc.

So, for the default printer, CS3 will remember settings for the current file.  After the file is closed, it reverts to default settings for the default printer.

If the printer is NOT the default printer, CS3 will lose all settings and revert to the system default printer after the print is made.

I'll try to test the 3800 soon, and report back about centering, etc.

Rick
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Rick Popham

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« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2007, 07:44:53 pm »

Quote
While you CLAIM that CS2 on Win was "correct" the question is, was it? If the paper reported unequal margins (as it does on Mac) and Photoshop is set to center in the printable area, shouldn't the image be offset by the difference in the printer margin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116020\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Though you're replying to Mark here, I have to ask:  How does it behave on the Mac?
A few messages ago, Colorwave (a Mac user) told me that the new version remembers the settings just like CS2.  If so, why didn't they fix the "bug" in the Mac version?

Given your response to this issue, and the deafening silence from any Adobe reps on the Photoshop Windows user to user forum (where they have been responding to other issues), I suspect that Adobe has no intention to do anything about this.  

I guess I have a couple of weeks to decide if this is a deal breaker for me.  I print from Photoshop a lot, and this is VERY disappointing.

Rick
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2007, 07:58:03 pm »

Quote
Both of your answers are non-answers...

Did you try creating a custom paper size with 4 equal margins?

While you CLAIM that CS2 on Win was "correct" the question is, was it? If the paper reported unequal margins (as it does on Mac) and Photoshop is set to center in the printable area, shouldn't the image be offset by the difference in the printer margin?

And, as to the default issue, again, while that's the way it was...you don't answer the question of isn't that what a default is supposed to do? Be the friggin' default?

"I'm not beholden to any Corporation so I can call the shots as I see them, and that's what I am doing. "

Ah, there it is...disregard any answer from me that you don't like because you presume that I'm beholding? Thought you knew me better than that bud? I guess I know where YOU stand, huh?

So, just to be clear, you claim the default and center issue are bugs, correct? Therefore you think CS3 is unusable for printing?

Well, ok, you got 30 days to get your money back...or, you can try what I suggest and see if it works?

I think what you are seeing is a fundimental change where in CS3, it behaves like a combination of the old "Print" command plus the old "Print with Preview" command...as there is no longer any options, the current Print command (and it's issues) seems to be now blended with application options that you don't seem to like. The question is, can you work around them?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116020\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

Both of my answers ARE answers - sensible and logical answers based on experience and common sense.

There should be no need for workarounds to something that worked the way it should for at least the past eight years. Yes they changed the interface to centralize Print and Print with Preview functions in one place. On the face it, a sensible idea. But they didn't get it right. Until Adobe fixes it, I'll print from CS2. That's the most efficient work-around there is in this circumstance. No need to futz around with measurements print by print. In CS2 it just works.

Why are you so defensive about my "beholden" opener? Read my words. I didn't say YOU were beholden to anyone. I just said that I'M not, so no-one will mistake any statements I make as "attitude" either positive or negative viz a viz the company. Anyhow, let's just move beyond that and stick with the issues.

And the issues are that these two aspects of CS3 are STEPS BACKWARD, illogical, inefficient performance. You seem to suggest they may have done all that on purpose as part of program redesign; I think that regardless of whether or not they did it on purpose  it SUCKS, and if we were to take a poll amongst the victims of this change I'll put money, payable during your next visit to Toronto, on who will win it. :-)

Will I ask for my money back? Of course not. Let's keep a certain reasonable perspective on all this.  As I mentioned in this thread, this is a great application. It has a few problems. The problems can be fixed, and they will be fixed.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Schewe

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« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2007, 09:07:15 pm »

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And the issues are that these two aspects of CS3 are STEPS BACKWARD, illogical, inefficient performance. You seem to suggest they may have done all that on purpose as part of program redesign; I think that regardless of whether or not they did it on purpose  it SUCKS, and if we were to take a poll amongst the victims of this change I'll put money, payable during your next visit to Toronto, on who will win it. :-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116030\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not saying anything other that 1) the print centering issue is, I believe a function of the standard Epson page size & margins being unequal that perhaps, on Win was a "bug or feature" that fell on the positive side for Win users in the past where it fell against Mac users...

...and 2) that arguably, if a printer is designated as "DEFAULT" that an application should respect the default designation-which on the Mac, it does in Photoshop CS3-whatever printer is set as default shows up by default in the Print command of CS3.

Which-even if _YOU_ don't like it, seems to be "correct behavior".

And to be honest, there _IS_ a bug in Mac OS X 10.4.x and Epson's drivers, that REQUIRES that the printer I want to print to be set as the "default" printer to avoid ColorSync from artificially (and incorrectly) taging an image with a profile. So, since I had already got into the habit of setting whatever printer I was printing to as default, this issue simply doesn't aggravate me the way it seems to piss you guys off.  And I might point out that the default printer bug is an OS X/Epson print driver issue, not an Adobe issue.

Quote
Why are you so defensive about my "beholden" opener? Read my words. I didn't say YOU were beholden to anyone. I just said that I'M not, so no-one will mistake any statements I make as "attitude" either positive or negative viz a viz the company. Anyhow, let's just move beyond that and stick with the issues.

Yeah, right...your were what, "just saying"?

Sounded like you were saying that _YOU_ didn't have any "beholden" status, unlike other posters in the thread...which means who exactly in this thread DOES have a "beholden" status....Rick? Lust4Life, BlasR, kenscott30, pss, Jae_Moon, Kenneth Sky, Carol, EricM, DarkPenguin, ARD, Colorwave, Kirk Gittings? So who among those who have posted to this thread did you want to separate yourself from? Cause the way you said it sure sounds like you don't want to be confused with somebody else...

I'm just saying...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 09:18:57 pm by Schewe »
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Schewe

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« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2007, 09:16:44 pm »

Quote
A few messages ago, Colorwave (a Mac user) told me that the new version remembers the settings just like CS2.  If so, why didn't they fix the "bug" in the Mac version?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Seems every time I go into the "Print" dlog in CS3 on 10.4.9 that the printer defaults to the default printer on Mac...if I go into Printer Setup Utility and change the default, that's the printer that comes up by default in Photoshop CS3's "Print" dlog...which, sorry to say (for you guys) seems to be "expected behavior"...ya know, cause I set the printer to DEFAULT!

See post above as to WHY I set printers to default...

Sorry, this simply doesn't seem to be a hill to die on...as far as the print centering issue, I'm STILL waiting for Mark to answer the question regarding margins in Epson print drivers and page setup...will Photoshop CS3 print in the center if your page setup has 4 equal margins? If not, I agree, that's a bug. If is does, it falls under the heading of "changed behavior" between CS2 and CS3.
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Ray

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« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2007, 09:37:17 pm »

I had an issue with Photoshop CS (not CS2 or CS3) with my newly acquired Epson 7600 a few years ago. The printer had a tendency to stop printing before it was supposed to, cutting off a few inches of the image but not the paper, on really large prints like 24x36".

Now that was a real problem, causing a lot of wastage of ink and paper and a lot of stuffing around re-installing Photoshop and re-installing the Epson drivers.

The odd thing was, the first print after each re-installation of PS was just fine, but subsequent prints developed the same problem.

Anticipating that Epson would lay the blame for this on Adobe and Adobe would lay the blame on Epson, I decided not to waste any more time on this issue and bought Qimage for $60. I've never looked back.

Qimage must be one of the best value programs around for printing. I could have spent $60 on phone calls, not to mention the value of my time, if I'd insisted on printing from Photoshop CS with my 7600.
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