Backs for architecture/commercial photography

[Danijela D. Karic]

I am also thinking of getting the 28HR to have a lens that falls between the 24xl and 35xl. I am also looking at getting the 60hr, but cambo told me I would only have 6mm shift with this lens or have my Schneider 58xl lens converted to fit the cambo. I need something longer then the 47xl and the 72 xl is a big jump in mm. I really like 24 xl but it starts to get soft past F8 - F11

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100761\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi John,

I am not sure if I understand that you own 47XL as well. If you do, could you post few images taken
with 35XL and 47XL if you own one. If not, I know Eric Zepeda owns 47XL, so I will ask him too.

Oh, one more question: Which of the two 24XL or 35XL gets to be in use most of the time?

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

I've been using a Cambo WDS with 35 and 47 digitars and a P25 back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Eric,

I would appreciate if you could post some images taken with 47XL and if you could share your thoughts/shortcomings if any at all?

Which version do you own 47XL or 47XL decentered 8mm? I believe there is no
difference in quality only with 47XL decenetred you are able to shift more I guess.

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

I heard that [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Seitz[/span] is making parts for ALPA and therefore building a dedicated
6x9 Full Frame Digital Back.

Is this only a rumor or there is some truth in it?

[span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Seitz 6x17[/span] is very good idea for landscapes but I don't believe good enough for architecture.

I like the fact that is 6x17 Full Frame, but it is huge, the Hammer Jeep of cameras.

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Ok, I found it.

Seitz 6x17 full frame, but more like a scanning back.

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thierry[/span]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Yaya[/span]

I know phase makes the scanning back for 4x5 but I don't think its full frame.

Does LEAF or SINAR make scanning backs or not, and are they any good for
architecture?

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Rainer [/span]
Did you have a chance or interest to work with the scanning back by any company
Phase/Leaf/Sinar, and what do you think about it, is it suitable for architecture?


Regards
Danijela

[yaya]

Does LEAF or SINAR make scanning backs or not, and are they any good for
architecture?

Leaf doesn't make scanning backs anymore.

Scanning backs can produce stunning results, providing that the conditions are right: lots of continous (and stable) light, (very) still subjects, computer+power source for tethering etc.

Yair

[BJNY]

Danijela + Thierry,
Doesn't the solution already exist somewhat in the Sinar Handy?
Billy.

hi Danijela.

The Sinaron Digital AF Zeiss lenses will not fit the Hy6: they have a complete different mount and have been built exclusively for the Sinar m.

The Sinar m will continue, since there are ther thoughts behing it: it is a camera system, fitting as well the LF Sinar, as a electronical shutter with full automated controls (via Sinar m or Captureshop), accepting at the same time lense from Nikon, Hasselblad V and the Zeiss AF.

You idea about a Sinar camera like the Alpa is interesting: I will forward your idea/suggestion.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Caracalla]

Hi Danijela, You have a tough choice. H3D is good period and it will only get better.

I have to stick with Phase & Leaf because at the time I purchased them
they were the standard. Not much has changed you could easily say Phase
and Leaf remain standard but I also like the new H3D. never seen a
single e75 in action and I can not comment.

Ciao

[thsinar]

Danijela + Thierry,
Doesn't the solution already exist somewhat in the Sinar Handy?
Billy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

EXISTED!

The Sinar Handy has been discontinued for about 15 years now.

Thierry

[thsinar]

hi Danijela,

No, neither Leaf nor Sinar have ever had a scanning back. You might still be able to find some second-hand, from different manufacturers, but I would not suggest this solution: as mentioned by many, you need a stabilized continous light source in studio (expensive), and on location you need to make sure that you have absolutely no movement or vibrations. And, ..... you need time: one scan a full res takes around 10 to 20 minutes!

Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thierry[/span]

I know phase makes the scanning back for 4x5 but I don't think its full frame.

Does LEAF or SINAR make scanning backs or not, and are they any good for
architecture?

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Danijela D. Karic]

Hi Danijela, You have a tough choice. H3D is good period and it will only get better.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I totally agree.

I have to stick with Phase & Leaf because at the time I purchased them
they were the standard. Not much has changed you could easily say Phase
and Leaf remain standard but I also like the new H3D.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I know everybody is familiar with Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad and if I buy ALPA 12SWA
every dealer is suggesting Schneider Lenses and Leaf Aptus75 so I am waiting on
our fellow photographers to post few more samples so that I can make the wise choice and decide
on the system without regrets, but I guess I have two solid weeks until the PMA in Vegas.

never seen a single e75 in action and I can not comment.

Ciao
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Perhaps, not if you live/work in North America, but in Europe I hear is a different story all together.

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Danijela + Thierry,
Doesn't the solution already exist somewhat in the Sinar Handy?
Billy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You have the right answer from Thierry. However, thanks for the effort I appreciate it.

Perhaps, soon we will see SINAR 12 SWA Totally COOL & Integrated System maybe even with the Digital/Mechanical Rangefinder Installed.

This time around, Sinar can really make a difference like » Day & Night.

Regards
Danijela

[BJNY]

Between two to five minutes were  typical exposures when I used Dicomed and BetterLight scanning backs.  Lights didn't need to be expensive as long as they were stabilized with AC line conditioner (APC Line-R 1250 is less than $100).

hi Danijela,

No, neither Leaf nor Sinar have ever had a scanning back. You might still be able to find some second-hand, from different manufacturers, but I would not suggest this solution: as mentioned by many, you need a stabilized continous light source in studio (expensive), and on location you need to make sure that you have absolutely no movement or vibrations. And, ..... you need time: one scan a full res takes around 10 to 20 minutes!

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Danijela D. Karic]

hi Danijela,
No, neither Leaf nor Sinar have ever had a scanning back. You might still be able to find some second-hand, from different manufacturers
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brand New is outdated, much less second hand. Not for me I guess!

I would not suggest this solution: as mentioned by many, you need a stabilized continous light source in studio (expensive)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If that is what is required and I don’t need any speed or efficiency, then I am better of with 4x5 film.

and on location you need to make sure that you have absolutely no movement or vibrations.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I know It’s not only the clouds, but strong wind, sometimes even sub can disturb and give enough vibration to wonder
what happened. So again, I guess it’s not for me.

I will never forget the experience with the Para 170 FB & Para 220 FB umbrellas
on location. The stands for the umbrellas by Broncolor are so fragile and light in another words Mickey Mouse as far
as I am concern, but the system by Broncolor is very, very good. I just hope in future, they do something about their stands.

And, ..... you need time: one scan a full res takes around 10 to 20 minutes!

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was not aware of that, it feels like a never ending story. I thought there was something like Seitz with 2sec. exposure.


Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Between two to five minutes were  typical exposures when I used Dicomed and BetterLight scanning backs.  Lights didn't need to be expensive as long as they were stabilized with AC line conditioner (APC Line-R 1250 is less than $100).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Frankly, even five minutes is a lot for a single exposure,
unless desired by a photographer.

If Seitz had one with two seconds per exposure, I could live with that,
but they are busy building back for ALPA 6x9 full frame and such.

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

I completely forgot to ask about the mount. Because buying a digital back is
bad enough, now it gets worse, which one should I choose? Some say if you buy H mount be careful you can't
use it on V mount , Rollei and visa verse but if you buy V mount
you can use it on RZ, Contax, etc.

I don't understand nothing, because nothing they say make sense.

Any advice appreciated


Regards
Danijela

[willconnor]

Danijela and Yaya,

I use the Alpa SWA with ground glass and Hass. rmfx reflex viewer.  I compose on the ground glass, pop it off, and pop on the leaf back.  It's a little scary taking the back on and off so many times, but I haven't dropped it yet! This seems to be uncharted territory I'm in, as I'm having to have a custom made bracket to hold the viewer in place on the ground glass.  Until I have that, I'm using foam core and  tape.  Not ideal, but for me, better than the alternatives:

  Sliding backs, which won't work on an Alpa anyway,  are heavy and clunky, especially if used outside of a studio.

  Optical viewfinders have a lot of parralex distortion and provide a pretty tiny view and of course you can't check your focus ( They also add significant weight.)  Until there is high quality, untethered live-video, I want to see what I'm photographing through the lens and ground glass.  And no matter how wide the lens is, if part of the  subject is 2 feet from the lens and part of it is 200 feet away, I need to see what's going on with the focus, not just rely on lens scales or hyper focal charts.  

 Laser pointers may tell you how far you are from something, but they won't allow you to know where your depth of field lies.  It can also be next to impossible to see the little red dot depending on the lighting, distance and environment you're in.


Will Connor

Hi Danijela,

With all these WA camera/ lenses combinations, there is no much use for a ground glass, because for most working apertures, anything from 5m is "infinity".

The rear element sits very close to the sensor and adding a sliding back means that infinity focus cannot be achieved.

Some photographers use distance meters (laser, ultrasonic etc.) and the framing is done through a viewfinder accessory of some sort.

When using longer lenses and when having to achieve critical focus, we recommend using Live Video View, but this requires tethering the back to a computer.

Using a ground glass and taking the back off/ on the camera: of course there's the risk of dropping it or scrathing the IR filter. Dust is less of an issue since cleaning the IR filter is dead easy.

I hope this helps

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Danijela D. Karic]

Danijela and Yaya,

I use the Alpa SWA with ground glass and Hass. rmfx reflex viewer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can you post few images of your Hass. rmfx reflex viewer for me to see. I know Horsemann, Toyo & some other company make bino reflex which I was looking if I go with 4x5 Ebony. However, I found yesterday that Horsemann model is discontinued, so I guess I have to look at Toyo/elsewhere and make my options crystal clear.

I think it’s so easier for Fashion photographers, just point and shoot, they can’t possibly be technically more demanding when choosing accessories. However,
once I get the system, I am sure I will enjoy it.

I compose on the ground glass, pop it off, and pop on the leaf back.  It's a little scary taking the back on and off so many times, but I haven't dropped it yet!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is what I thought I was going to do, but decided no thank you!

Optical viewfinders have a lot of parralex distortion and provide a pretty tiny view and of course you can't check your focus ( They also add significant weight.)  Until there is high quality, untethered live-video, I want to see what I'm photographing through the lens and ground glass.  And no matter how wide the lens is, if part of the  subject is 2 feet from the lens and part of it is 200 feet away, I need to see what's going on with the focus, not just rely on lens scales or hyper focal charts. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There seem to be rather mixed response on this issue. Yesterday I was talking here about the Leaf 6x7 Screen which I happen to like for a different reasons,
never mind the poor quality, they have to improve otherwise they pray for their own extinction obviously, but at least everybody agrees the size is very appealing. So, at that time it just occurred to me, that if there was no wire between the computer and back when shooting tethered, you end up with practically more control over your image. Therefore, I decided to ask if e75 or H3D 39 which are at the top of my list at this time including any other company for that matter even Seitz, if their DB is able to shoot tethered wirelessly and the least hope I was expecting to find is in P45, and guess what? Apparently P45 is able to do just that. Unfortunately not many P45 users respond here and I can’t talk about it more since I don’t own one and don’t know if it is possible or not.

If that is the truth, Phase guys deserve big + for P45 and I admit they have every right to call it P45+

Laser pointers may tell you how far you are from something, but they won't allow you to know where your depth of field lies.  It can also be next to impossible to see the little red dot depending on the lighting, distance and environment you're in.
[/color]

Will Connor

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

True, which laser do you own? Leica, Bosch, Hillti, etc.


Regards
Danijela

[rainer_v]

you were asking for 35+60hr images.



i dont know about the new phase 45 and 30 chips. but the older p25 and all before would have had serious problems with purple fringing with morifs as the posted ones, and i dont think that this improved much, but here should speak owners of p45 better.
in any case  this scenes would have been a challenge for softwares which cut highlights as soon one channel exceeds "255" or which show fringing in backlight situations. i woud like too see how they would resolve a scene like the showed one.
download the files here ( full resolution / jpeg compression10 ):

http://www.tangential.de/tests/

[Eric Zepeda]

Hi Eric,

I would appreciate if you could post some images taken with 47XL and if you could share your thoughts/shortcomings if any at all?

Which version do you own 47XL or 47XL decentered 8mm? I believe there is no
difference in quality only with 47XL decenetred you are able to shift more I guess.

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Daniela,

I have the 47xl decentered and am very happy with it. It works well in that I try to avoid extreme wides if I can help it, although often in interior work you can't. It has plenty of movement and is well suited to my style of shooting. Lens cast can be an issue and I almost always make a calibration to go with the final shot, even if no cast is apparent.

Best,

Eric


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