Topic: Backs for architecture/commercial photography (Read 123772 times)

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #60 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:19:39 pm »

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The level of distortion of the 24XL and the 28HR is very similar according to the graphs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I found 24XL to be a bit more distorted then 28HR, but anyway not the world of a difference.

It is imperative that I learn how to read the MTF charts properly, so if anyone could send some links or advice on the literature, books etc. i would appreciate it.

I found one article here on Luminous Landscape, perhaps few more could help.

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The benefit of the 28HR :

Higher resolution (important for 33MP +39MP) and it's sharp at F4.5.
+ you have a little bit of shift,however it's expensive and heavy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why am I going for the H3D 39, e75, P45+ if not for resolution, so of course the benefit of the higher resolution lens is important. The question is, is there a
visual difference to justify the cost, or is the difference apparent only when you look at the MTF Charts.

Thanks to your info on weight: How heavy is the 28HR? perhaps a bit bulky for ALPA 12SWA, but I presume nothing that I should worry about.

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The 24XL needs to be stopped down to F11 to get optimum sharpness.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100588\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I know Rehnniar own's 28HR, do you own 24XL or 28HR?

REGARDS
Danijela

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #61 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:23:14 pm »

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']How do you prove MTF Chart wrong?[/span]

Is there a step by step answer to this question?

Thank you
Danijela

rainer_v · « **Reply #62 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:45:19 pm »

i just wrote some words what i think about this two lenses.....:

the 28HR //
the biggest advantage in practical use that you can use it with very good success ( which means with sharp!! edges ) at open aperture, where you should stop down the 24xl to f8 or even f11. in my opinion at f8 or 11 the 24xl dont require also a center filter cause in any case you should make with this lense a white reference shot with every actual back.

same about the 28HR. it works without centerfilter, its falloff at f4,5 may equal the falloff of the 24xl at f11, but still it is much better to make a whitereference shot for having 1. even colors and 2. even illumination.

other advantages of the 28HR:
1. the 28HR is sharp till the extrem edges, the 24xl not so in the extrem corners.
2. the 28HR ( and the 35HR ) allows you to shift the camera 12mm up ( in horizontal sensor position ), its image circle is very conservative claimed with 70mm.
( this is even more evident with the larger HR lenses, a.e. the 60HR you can shift 20 - 25mm.)
my experience is that its much more usefull to have a shiftable 28mm lense than to have a 24mm lense where you have to adjust shifts electronically
( and usually you will end up with f.o.v. which are the same or more narrow than 28mm ).
summary:
for me its a "no brainer" that the price difference between this lenses is more than adequat and should not be an argument in the class we are playing with mf backs and shiftable camera systems.

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #63 on:** February 13, 2007, 07:52:50 pm »

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This image photographer with a 24xl on a cambo wide DS shot with an aptus 75

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100600\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you for providing your friends 24XL Sample. I know your friend used tripod of course and the level base, but looking at this sample there is some distortion going on. The one that instantly caught my eye is in the middle right-hand corner on the window, which is not particular for this lens, so I am wondering if the window was altered during the production and therefore he missed or...

Otherwise it's bad enough I have to deal with corners now in the middle too, than if that's the truth I have to admit I really don't like it.

Could it be that the level/height of the camera if used low can cause such effect, but anyway it should be apparent on the other side too, actually it is but it's not that heavy.

I'm sorry but I have to ask, are you sure he used 24XL?

REGARDS
Danijela

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #64 on:** February 13, 2007, 08:16:19 pm »

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I've been using a Cambo WDS with 35 and 47 digitars and a P25 back. While I would like to eventually upgrade to a P45, I'm quite happy with this combo. LCC is just another part of the workflow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

With regards to P45+ on ALPA 12SWA, I do not understand why does it need a wake-up call in order to proceed with every single shot or am I mistaken in saying that, and does P45+ require more then one cable and why?

Is this the case only with ALPA or the same goes for the Linhof, Gottschalt, Cambo WDS cameras and why?

If you only had 10 seconds, how many exposures are you able to make and
how many wake-ups?

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No big deal, although I prefer to make calibrations as I shoot. Having a set of preset Lcc's doesn't work as well as making one one the spot.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why is that?

Regards
Danijela

mkravit · « **Reply #65 on:** February 13, 2007, 08:48:36 pm »

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Oh, one more question if I may. "I feel like I'm panicking now, not sure why, typical of a woman I guess."
How many cables do you need for H3D to work with ALPA 12SWA and if the answer is two or more, if you could elaborate more why?

Thank You
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100727\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

One cable goes from the H3D back to the Lens Flash Sync.

pixjohn · « **Reply #66 on:** February 13, 2007, 08:51:56 pm »

Danijela, It my image. The photographer should read photographed it is the 24xl. What you see in the middle window is light reflecting off the window that did not get fixed in post, not the lens. I am also thinking of getting the 28HR to have a lens that falls between the 24xl and 35xl. I am also looking at getting the 60hr, but cambo told me I would only have 6mm shift with this lens or have my Schneider 58xl lens converted to fit the cambo. I need something longer then the 47xl and the 72 xl is a big jump in mm. I really like 24 xl but it starts to get soft past F8 - F11

shot with 24xl lens

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #67 on:** February 13, 2007, 10:52:48 pm »

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i would not count too much about majorities..... thinking in mc. donalds and co.
especially in architecture photography we see the beginning of digital use. lets watch how the things will go on. very short times are wides as the 24xl or the 28hr in the market available, as well as cameras as the alpa xy, the cambo ( with available lense boards! ) and the gottschalt.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100622\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OK, so I'm not alone after all, am I?

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At least in germany still 90% of architecture shooters are working with film.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100622\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I didn't have any idea of how many people shoot architecture using film but 90% is substantial number. Actually before I decided to go for digital back I was thinking Ebony 4x5 with the new QuadStitch 4 by 5 View Camera Sliding Back Adapter by Kapture Group which I thought is excellent but than discovered from few distributors that apparently it is not ready yet.

I am not sure if you have any experience/thoughts to share on QuadStitch 4 by 5 Sliding Back Adapter

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emotion22 and 28HR.
( no "lcc" or white reference shot was made. the second image is stitched, each shot 10mm shift in 30 degrees right+left up , f11 )
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100622\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did a little distortion test with Grid Frame in PS. I didn't use your second image because it's stitched but I used the first one to compare it with the one from our fellow phtographer pixjohn.

This is what I got:

» Nº1 24XL - Didn't like what was happening in the middle of the 24XL at all, and that was throw away at first but I still keep my fingers crossed.

[attachment=1831:attachment]

» Nº2 28HR - Couldn't see much distortion in the middle apart from the left lamp and the far left corner but really little certainly less than 24XL, in all other areas 28HR looks solid + the extra resolution which I can't really test with these images.

[attachment=1832:attachment]

Regards
Danijela

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #68 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:03:52 pm »

Owners of 28HR

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Come out, Come out , wherever you are !!![/span]

Is there anybody else apart from our fellow photographer Rehnniar who owns one and would like to contribute?

Regards
Danijela

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #69 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:46:39 pm »

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']SINAR[/span] » Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']HASSELBLAD[/span] » Steve Hendrix : I am not sure if Steve here represents Hasselblad or not, but if he could greet me with his answer I would appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']PHASE[/span] [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']ONE[/span] » I don't know anybody representing Phase on this forum, so if anybody could help I would certainly appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']LEAF[/span] » Yaya

Is there a DVD Tutorial made by following companies or third party:

» Stephen Brumbaer Software
» CaptureShop™ 5.3 - If not there should be one definitely for EXPOSURE
» Leaf Capture Software
» Flexcolor
» Capture One

If not, you guys should already have some future plans to produce your DVD Tutorials as they are the only true face/source of information between interested customers and dealers, especially when it comes to work-flow and trouble shooting.

PS: Of course, I'm not asking for free DVDs.

Regards
Danijela

Danijela D. Karic · « **Reply #70 on:** February 14, 2007, 12:01:34 am »

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One cable goes from the H3D back to the Lens Flash Sync.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100760\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Michael,

[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']Great relief![/span]

Thank you
Danijela

thsinar · « **Reply #71 on:** February 14, 2007, 12:17:05 am »

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Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']SINAR[/span] » Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']HASSELBLAD[/span] » Steve Hendrix : I am not sure if Steve here represents Hasselblad or not, but if he could greet me with his answer I would appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']PHASE[/span] [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']ONE[/span] » I don't know anybody representing Phase on this forum, so if anybody could help I would certainly appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']LEAF[/span] » Yaya

Is there a DVD Tutorial made by following companies or third party:

» Stephen Brumbaer Software
» CaptureShop™ 5.3 - If not there should be one definitely for EXPOSURE
» Leaf Capture Software
» Flexcolor
» Capture One

If not, you guys should already have some future plans to produce your DVD Tutorials as they are the only true face/source of information between interested customers and dealers, especially when it comes to work-flow and trouble shooting.
PS: Of course, I'm not asking for free DVDs.
Regards
Danijela
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hi Danijela,

Sinar

We do have what we call Capturehshop "Help files", online, which are installed with the CS softwares: I can send you the latest version of Captureshop, which is anyway FOC and the "Help" installer: do you have a FTP server or somewhere to upload? Or else, contact me offline and I shall give you access to my personal FTP server.

Brumbaer Tools

I don't know if Stefan has a DVD Tutorial, but here is homepage (if you dont have it yet):

[a href=\"http://www.brumbaer.com/Tools/Tools.html]http://www.brumbaer.com/Tools/Tools.html[/url]

Best,
Thierry

rainer_v · « **Reply #72 on:** February 14, 2007, 01:59:43 am »

Quote

I am also looking at getting the 60hr, but cambo told me I would only have 6mm shift with this lens or have my Schneider 58xl lens converted to fit the cambo.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100761\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thats definitely bs. i wrote above that you can shift around 20mm and more or with the 60HR and a 36x48mm sensor.

...and....

if i would think the 24xl is usefull ( or better ) aside the 28HR i would have it.
what i like at most with an architecture system is that i can shift, cant do that with the 24xl.

...and....

you can download the brumbaer software, it has a help file installed.

pixjohn · « **Reply #73 on:** February 14, 2007, 04:55:30 am »

The type of work I shoot I need the wide view of the 24xl. The shot above with the 24xl had about 1 - 2mm shift with no problem. Sometime I need a little more shift and end up retouching a little vignetting on the bottom corners. I would like more shift but the 28HR is just to tight for some shots. The shot of the entry would not work with the 28HR it would be a little to tight.

As per the Rodenstock 60HR I think I will give another call to cambo. They did say they would make a working lens for me, but I would be doing it at my own risk. Do you have any sample with the 60HR?

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thats definitely bs. i wrote above that you can shift around 20mm and more or with the 60HR and a 36x48mm sensor.

...and....

if i would think the 24xl is usefull ( or better ) aside the 28HR i would have it.
what i like at most with an architecture system is that i can shift, cant do that with the 24xl.
...and....

you can download the brumbaer software, it has a help file installed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100805\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

rainer_v · « **Reply #74 on:** February 14, 2007, 05:39:06 am »

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As per the Rodenstock 60HR I think I will give another call to cambo. They did say they would make a working lens for me, but I would be doing it at my own risk. Do you have any sample with the 60HR?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100816\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

in some days ( maybe two weeks or so... ) i will give some raws to asher for his page. will include the 60HR in this.

rueyloon · « **Reply #75 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:06:04 am »

hello

Just an update, my search has ended and now it is back getting the images, if any of you guys are ever in Singapore, or maybe even nearby countries let's see if we can meet up for a beer.

Cheers
rgs
rueyloon

Michael Heinrich · « **Reply #76 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:08:43 am »

Hi,

I am one of the 90% architectural photographer using film...
and I am sure I will change to digital when I can see more advantages than now.
I don`t like to carry my 50kg Linhof 5/7 inch around, but I also don`t like to spend night after night trying to find solutions for problems I still don`t have (Color Cast, Moiré, Centerfold, Software problems and so on.).
Today the wide angel lenses on 4/5inch are wider than the digital lenses (a 47XL is equ. to a 18mm), and there are still movements.
I know the results of Rainers digital work, and I really like his technical perfection...but I don`t think that the products of the photographic industry are already ready.
I would like to make good pictures...digital or not

rainer_v · « **Reply #77 on:** February 14, 2007, 06:17:28 am »

Quote

Hi,

I am one of the 90% architectural photographer using film...
and I am sure I will change to digital when I can see more advantages than now.
I don`t like to carry my 50kg Linhof 5/7 inch around, but I also don`t like to spend night after night trying to find solutions for problems I still don`t have (Color Cast, Moiré, Centerfold, Software problems and so on.).
Today the wide angel lenses on 4/5inch are wider than the digital lenses (a 47XL is equ. to a 18mm), and there are still movements.
I know the results of Rainers digital work, and I really like his technical perfection...but I don`t think that the products of the photographic industry are already ready.
I would like to make good pictures...digital or not
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hi michael...
what a surprise to meet you here.
big hello....

Michael Heinrich · « **Reply #78 on:** February 14, 2007, 07:47:49 am »

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hi michael...
what a surprise to meet you here.
big hello....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100829\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Big hello too, hope you ´re on the beach...

Why you are surprised, we often discuss about analog/digital, so we can do it here too.
I would like so much a really good digital solution for architectural work.
Oh Rainer, by the way, you ´ve seen my post in "managing megabytes?" at the forum?

Michael

pprdigital · « **Reply #79 on:** February 14, 2007, 08:37:19 am »

Quote

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']SINAR[/span] » Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']HASSELBLAD[/span] » Steve Hendrix : I am not sure if Steve here represents Hasselblad or not, but if he could greet me with his answer I would appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']PHASE[/span] [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']ONE[/span] » I don't know anybody representing Phase on this forum, so if anybody could help I would certainly appreciate it.

Att: [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']LEAF[/span] » Yaya

Is there a DVD Tutorial made by following companies or third party:

» Stephen Brumbaer Software
» CaptureShop™ 5.3 - If not there should be one definitely for EXPOSURE
» Leaf Capture Software
» Flexcolor
» Capture One

If not, you guys should already have some future plans to produce your DVD Tutorials as they are the only true face/source of information between interested customers and dealers, especially when it comes to work-flow and trouble shooting.
PS: Of course, I'm not asking for free DVDs.
Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100787\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Danijela:

I do sell Hasselblad, Leaf and Sinar. At one time, Hasselblad did have DVD tutorials, but it was some time ago, and now mostly out of date. We are working on Quicktime tutorials for each of these product lines right now, and hope to have them available soon.

Thanks,
Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital

Author Topic: Backs for architecture/commercial photography (Read 123772 times)

mkravit