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Author Topic: Russian Invasion  (Read 8250 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2022, 06:56:16 am »

I just finished watching the special session of German Bundestag, and speeches by Olaf Scholz and Friedrich Merz. Great speeches, and a 180-degree reversal from the previous pussy footing and trying to appease the Russia. Olaf Scholz attacked sharply Putin, and Merz called him a war criminal and his close circle of corrupt politicians and oligarchs as useful idiots.

They will now raise their defense budget to 2% of GDP, and send to Ukraine 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 surface-to-air missiles from German military stocks to Ukraine as soon as possible.
 
Here is the article in German in latest Spiegel issue (use Google for translation) and below a summary of the session in English at dw.com.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-versus-russland-olaf-scholz-gibt-regierungserklaerung-ab-und-verurteilt-wladimir-putin-scharf-a-bfd7dee4-c89e-4832-8faa-1e4d18deb17b
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-reversal-on-ukraine-weapons-policy-response-to-putins-aggression/a-60932652

and here the full proceedings from the Bundestag session (translated into English). The video is over 1 hour long, but well worth watching. It is a historical speech (actually two speeches) and a refreshing signal about German awakening and a new chapter in their new mission to protect and advance Europe.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_DMcayCtnA
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digitaldog

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2022, 09:19:40 am »

No.
As I expected.
"Think twice before you speak, because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another." - Napoleon
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2022, 02:26:39 pm »

Putin's Right-Wing Shills - And why they matter.

https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/putins-right-wing-shills

These Conservatives Are Defending Russia In Ukraine Crisis—And Trump Leads The Way

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/02/23/these-conservatives-are-defending-russia-in-ukraine-crisis-and-trump-leads-the-way

Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

There are two types of people, those who think there are two types of people and everyone else.  You are obviously part of the former group. 

Yes, Putin is a genius, albeit an evil genius.  You can say so and certainly disagree with everything he is doing, but better to give the devil his due then to write him off as a lunatic.  Lunatics usually destroy themselves, eventually; devils need to be destroyed, so best not to write one off by not affirming his intelligence.  Just because one gives Putin the respect necessarily to defeat him does not make him pro-Putin. 

However, like I said, if you are the kind of person who only see two types of people in this instance, you will make the mistake of labeling anyone who does not follow the party line to a tie as being pro-Putin.   
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2022, 02:32:29 pm »

I think the greater ramifications of this will be severe. 

Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

How can we (the West) now be trusted? 

We can't, or at least to many smaller nations. 

I hope it is not the case, but I would suspect Taiwan, South Korea and Japan to all start development on their own nuclear arsenals.  You can probably add half the Middle East to the list too. 

The clock is now ticking a little closer to midnight. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 02:35:32 pm by JoeKitchen »
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TechTalk

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2022, 02:36:15 pm »

Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

There are two types of people, those who think there are two types of people and everyone else.  You are obviously part of the former group. 

Whatever makes you happy.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2022, 02:42:44 pm »

Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

Yes, the Munich Conference failed twice. First in 1938, when the West sacrificed Czechoslovakia and now in 2022 they sacrificed Ukraine. At least, now the NATO nations have recognized much quicker their mistake and are now trying to correct it.
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digitaldog

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2022, 02:53:47 pm »

Whatever makes you happy.
Ignorance is bliss or so we're told by the ignorant.
Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them. 
And the west has come to its aid.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 02:59:11 pm by digitaldog »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2022, 05:54:14 pm »

Man, you're are easy to hook line and sinker aren't you. 

Always quick with the vitriol and personal insults.  Excellent work, Joe. Very helpful.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2022, 07:05:42 pm »

Russia demands that Google restores access to its media YouTube channels in Ukraine. Apparently they need to watch youtube tutorials how to fix broken tanks.

Quote
MOSCOW, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Russia's state communications regulator on Sunday said it had written to Alphabet Inc's (GOOGL.O) Google and demanded that access to Russian media's YouTube channels be restored on Ukrainian territory.

The regulator, Roskomnadzor, said it wanted all restrictions imposed on the Russian-language YouTube channels of media outlets RBC, TV Zvezda and Sputnik to be removed.

Moscow on Friday said it was partially limiting access to Meta Platforms Inc's (FB.O) Facebook, accusing it of "censoring" Russian media.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-demands-google-restore-access-its-media-youtube-channels-ukraine-2022-02-27/
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2022, 09:48:56 pm »

Russia demands that Google restores access to its media YouTube channels in Ukraine. Apparently they need to watch youtube tutorials how to fix broken tanks.
...

Funny.
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BobShaw

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2022, 09:56:15 pm »

Russia is a third rate country ruled by a thug with an inferiority complex.
Trouble is, we're all going to be adversely affected by this asshole.

Best description of Russia I've read recently: "Upper Volta, with nuclear weapons".

Tell us what went wrong on your last trip to Russia.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 10:34:59 pm by BobShaw »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2022, 10:57:14 pm »

Tell us what went wrong on your last trip to Russia.

Last time (and it was also the first time) when I applied for visa to the former USSR, was in mid sixties. They didn't give me visa and I didn't try again.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2022, 04:14:29 am »

World's largest cargo plane An-225 Mriya owned by Ukraine was destroyed during the Russian invasion.

Quote
There was only one example of this giant: During a Russian attack on an airport near Kyiv, the largest cargo plane ever built burned down. The damage is in the billions.

According to Ukrainian sources on Sunday, the world's heaviest cargo plane, the Antonov An-225 Mriya, was destroyed or at least badly damaged in the fighting near Kyiv. "Russian invaders" had the "flagship" of Ukrainian aviation on their conscience, the armaments company Ukroboronprom announced on Sunday. The machine was parked at the embattled Hostomel airfield northwest of Kyiv. A photo by the US satellite operator Maxar shows a partially destroyed hangar on the airport site.

The transport aircraft was developed in Soviet times and built by the aircraft manufacturer O. K. Antonov in Kyiv; The first flight was on December 21, 1988. There is only one example of the giant that can carry a maximum payload of 250 tons with its six engines. Total weight at the start then: 640 tons. The XXL plane is 84 meters long and has a wingspan of 88.40 meters. For comparison: An Airbus A 380, the largest passenger aircraft in the world, measures 72.70 meters in length and takes off with a total weight of 569 tons.



https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/krieg-in-der-ukraine-weltgroesstes-frachtflugzeug-an-225-mriya-zerstoert-a-fa02a3e1-6559-4013-9c45-94b6578d93fc
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2022, 07:06:01 am »

...
Ukraine gave up its (3rd largest in the world) nuclear arsenal in 1994 due to the promise that the West would come to its aid if Russia ever assaulted them.  Likewise, many smaller countries with the capabilities to develop their own arsenal did not do so based on the same promise.  We broke that promise and are doing nothing in Ukraine. 

How can we (the West) now be trusted? 

We can't, or at least to many smaller nations. 

...

I know as much about foreign policy as I do about women but this sounds about right to me. It's too bad the world just stood around after the Soviet Union imploded and let Russia be taken over by every crook with a beef instead of helping them come out of that hell. Ironic because there were so many other places into which we stuck our collective noses, so it's not as if we were shy about meddling in other countries.
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pschefz

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2022, 05:19:12 pm »

Who's doing that?
other then the trump himself?
or the clips (no need to censor) from tucker Carlson's latest scary tale hour they showed on Russian state TV to support the invasion?
or the neonazi convention going on in Florida?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2022, 11:15:49 am »

I know as much about foreign policy as I do about women but this sounds about right to me. It's too bad the world just stood around after the Soviet Union imploded and let Russia be taken over by every crook with a beef instead of helping them come out of that hell. Ironic because there were so many other places into which we stuck our collective noses, so it's not as if we were shy about meddling in other countries.

I read a very interesting piece first looking at the sudden and not at all anticipated loss, by Germans, for Germany in WW1 followed by the severe punishments at the Versaille treaty.  While the world was partying during the roaring 20s, Germany suffered and that lead to Hitler coming to power with his promises to restore the Third Reich.  Many Germans may have disagreed with the Nazi policies, but the promise of returned pride he promised was too much to ignore.  Similarly, it then talked about the fall of the USSR, which was also not foreseen by most in Russia.  Although we did nothing to cause it, the collapse of an economic system that concentrates all power in only a few at the top of government (what communism does), only lead to the same situation Germany was in during the 1920s.  Putin is also promising to restore the old empire, and the pride that would come with it. 

Of course their are differences; the Russians on the streets of Moscow do not appear to be as gung-ho about supporting Putin, but when has that stopped a dictator. 

Years ago I watched an interview with Tim O'Brien, an author and Vietnam vet, and I can distinctly remember hm talking about how everyone knew the war was wrong.  However, not to fight and to abandon your fellow soldiers would take more courage then what most men have. 

So, now that we gave up all of our deterrents when they actually could have done something and Putin is in Ukraine, this will not stop until Putin decides to stop or when he is stopped. 

If Ukraine actually gets acceptance into the EU, I can only imagine that would elevate the situation and Europe may be looking at war again. 

Edit
I hope it is just that fact that war in Europe, in my lifetime, has never happened until now and that is why I am overly concerned.  Hopefully it will just fizzle out without going beyond Ukraine.  History though
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 11:22:13 am by JoeKitchen »
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digitaldog

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2022, 12:53:52 pm »

Of course their are differences; the Russians on the streets of Moscow do not appear to be as gung-ho about supporting Putin, but when has that stopped a dictator. 

Of course:
Those Who Forget Their History Are Condemned to Repeat It (or post about it):
https://www.history.com/news/5-famous-coups
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts
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BobShaw

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2022, 04:34:24 pm »

Of course:
Those Who Forget Their History Are Condemned to Repeat It (or post about it):
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coups_and_coup_attempts

A selectively written list.
>1893, Kingdom of Hawai'i: Sanford Dole and American plantation owners overthrew the independent Kingdom of Hawaiʻi led by Queen Liliʻuokalani

What, no mention of the US military?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2022, 01:11:01 am »

Captured Russian soldiers sending messages home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaMpxtzo_0
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Russian Invasion
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2022, 11:01:37 am »

I see from various online reports that Trump is doubling down on his admiration for Putin's "strong" leadership.
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