Epson P7570 or P9570 printer--overall satisfaction?

[hubell]

I recently received my 9570 to replace my 9900 that bit the dust after very reliable service for 9 years. Sorry I did not see this thread before I made the purchase. I have had some issues loading up a 36" roll of Canson Prestige 340, but the Epson Media Installer and its interaction with the Photoshop print driver and any settings in the printer itself are, for me so far, an indecipherable disaster. I just started a new topic here about it. I have used Epson Wide Format printers for over 20 years. A 10000, a 9600, a 9800, and then a 9900. Through each iteration, the printer driver in Photoshop basically worked the same. Everything was set in the print driver in Photoshop, and anything set in the printer itself (eg, the paper type) was ignored. Now, Epson releases the 9570/7570/900/700 printers and introduces a whole new workflow for making color management and other settings for prints....with ZERO documentation about how the Epson Media Installer works and interacts with the PS driver and the printer itself.  As others here have noted, if you print with Epson Premium Luster, no problem. Printing with third party fine art papers, just a confusing mess.

[Mick Sang]

I never thought I’d feel sorry for D1 but I do now.

I don't feel one bit sorry for D1. I feel sorry for their techs who are under paid and over worked. D1 takes full advantage at least that's how they apparently operate here in Canada.

The deal is, a “ production printer”  which is what the 9570 is marketed as,

The printer was sold to us as a "fine art printer with wide colour gamut and production speed capability." When it works properly, it is both. The lights allow us to see the scuffing as it happens thus at least reducing the loss. Thank goodness for small mercies. It is certainly NOT absurd.

Mick

[deanwork]

:- )

If it’s a high-end production printer , one which requires you to stand by it, look into a little window to see if your paper is scraping all day long, I don’t see much fun in that. With their previous model, the 9000, you can send 50 good sized prints to it and go to bed. Not with the new one apparently.





quote author=Mick Sang link=topic=139474.msg1236349#msg1236349 date=1645232158]
I don't feel one bit sorry for D1. I feel sorry for their techs who are under paid and over worked. D1 takes full advantage at least that's how they apparently operate here in Canada.

The printer was sold to us as a "fine art printer with wide colour gamut and production speed capability." When it works properly, it is both. The lights allow us to see the scuffing as it happens thus at least reducing the loss. Thank goodness for small mercies. It is certainly NOT absurd.

Mick
[/quote]

[Mick Sang]

Now, Epson releases the 9570/7570/900/700 printers and introduces a whole new workflow for making color management and other settings for prints....with ZERO documentation about how the Epson Media Installer works and interacts with the PS driver and the printer itself.

Yes, this was a big frustration to us in the beginning. We've had our 9570 for a couple of years now. But, in the beginning we were just as confused and angry as you and there was ABSOLUTELY NO assistance from Epson whatsoever. In fact we all ended up teaching them from our experience. You're right, everything used to be in the driver and some of that has now been put on the printer itself. So now instead of selecting media in the driver, we select "Use Printer Settings" in the driver which refers that whole section of the settings to the printer itself where the media had been registered via EMI. Then we select the correct paper from the appropriate list upon loading in the printer.

Initially, we had set up a few custom media and installed (registered) those to the printer. At the end of the day these are simply records or shortcuts which allow us to save custom presets on the printer instead of in the driver. Otherwise all else is the same. We don't load EMI every time we want to make a change to a media setting, though. For example if we're running a sheet of Arches Aquarelle, while we may have set this media up based upon rolls using EMI to have a platen gap of 2.4 (to at least try to avoid the bloody scuffs), since the sheet works fine with a platen of 1.9 we load the paper with the Aquarelle media selected and make the change to the platen (to 1.9) via the control panel. The only thing with that is that we need to check it the next time we run the roll of Aquarelle so that we can change it back to 2.4. This would not be necessary except for the fact of the scuffing. But, if we were running a media which doesn't or at least shouldn't scuff, we would simply load it with the correct media setting as set up via EMI selected on the control panel and use ""Use Printer Settings" in the driver.

So, in short, with EMI we set up as many media and parameters as we can while making tweaks on the fly as it were. If we run Epson Media (Hot Press Natural etc.) we select that paper in the control panel. Platen, thickness, feed, drying etc. should be correct as we checked them when the machine was installed. I don't find any of this faster or slower. It's just different and allows us to see our own profiles in EMI versus the Epson profile for the base media. But, to be sure, our ICC profiles reside where they always did. Nothing has been moved. Colour management is the same as it was. There is now a record which reflects the fact that the particular media is associated with a specific profile. It's just a record.

If you prefer not to use  "Use Printer Settings", the media which you set up in EMI and which you registered to the printer with the name you gave it should appear in the driver under the appropriate media drop down.

In short, the machine SEEMs a whole lot different because of EMI. But, while certain media features have been shuffled it's really not that different. "Old habits die hard," as they say.

Mick

[Mick Sang]

If it’s a high-end production printer , one which requires you to stand by it, look into a little window to see if your paper is scraping all day long, I don’t see much fun in that.

Oh, you've got that RIGHT ON, sir. No fun at all and a shite-load of waste to boot.

Mick

[Rand47]

Yes, this was a big frustration to us in the beginning. We've had our 9570 for a couple of years now. But, in the beginning we were just as confused and angry as you and there was ABSOLUTELY NO assistance from Epson whatsoever. In fact we all ended up teaching them from our experience. You're right, everything used to be in the driver and some of that has now been put on the printer itself. So now instead of selecting media in the driver, we select "Use Printer Settings" in the driver which refers that whole section of the settings to the printer itself where the media had been registered via EMI. Then we select the correct paper from the appropriate list upon loading in the printer.

Initially, we had set up a few custom media and installed (registered) those to the printer. At the end of the day these are simply records or shortcuts which allow us to save custom presets on the printer instead of in the driver. Otherwise all else is the same. We don't load EMI every time we want to make a change to a media setting, though. For example if we're running a sheet of Arches Aquarelle, while we may have set this media up based upon rolls using EMI to have a platen gap of 2.4 (to at least try to avoid the bloody scuffs), since the sheet works fine with a platen of 1.9 we load the paper with the Aquarelle media selected and make the change to the platen (to 1.9) via the control panel. The only thing with that is that we need to check it the next time we run the roll of Aquarelle so that we can change it back to 2.4. This would not be necessary except for the fact of the scuffing. But, if we were running a media which doesn't or at least shouldn't scuff, we would simply load it with the correct media setting as set up via EMI selected on the control panel and use ""Use Printer Settings" in the driver.

So, in short, with EMI we set up as many media and parameters as we can while making tweaks on the fly as it were. If we run Epson Media (Hot Press Natural etc.) we select that paper in the control panel. Platen, thickness, feed, drying etc. should be correct as we checked them when the machine was installed. I don't find any of this faster or slower. It's just different and allows us to see our own profiles in EMI versus the Epson profile for the base media. But, to be sure, our ICC profiles reside where they always did. Nothing has been moved. Colour management is the same as it was. There is now a record which reflects the fact that the particular media is associated with a specific profile. It's just a record.

If you prefer not to use  "Use Printer Settings", the media which you set up in EMI and which you registered to the printer with the name you gave it should appear in the driver under the appropriate media drop down.

In short, the machine SEEMs a whole lot different because of EMI. But, while certain media features have been shuffled it's really not that different. "Old habits die hard," as they say.

Mick

Mick,

Why not make a 2nd custom media for the Aquarelle with the name “Aquarelle Roll” and rename the original one “Aquarelle Sheets”?

Rand

[John Hollenberg]

And, I’ve learned how to mitigate the head dragging through the fresh ink on heavily inked areas of an image.  It works “most of the time.”  So, “work arounds galore” and I have a pretty dependable printer that makes stunning prints.

I’ve learned to re-price my services to compensate for the wastage of paper using rolls that need leading edge “extra margin”

Couple of questions Rand:

1) How do you mitigate the head dragging through fresh ink?  Does it happen with certain papers more than others?  How much of a problem is this on the 7570 with papers like H. Photo Rag Baryta and Canson Platine Fiber Rag?

2) What are "rolls that need leading edge extra margin"?

Thanks.

[Rand47]

Couple of questions Rand:

1) How do you mitigate the head dragging through fresh ink?  Does it happen with certain papers more than others?  How much of a problem is this on the 7570 with papers like H. Photo Rag Baryta and Canson Platine Fiber Rag?

2) What are "rolls that need leading edge extra margin"?

Thanks.

John,

First, I “think” Epson has made this a little less likely w/ firmware updates.  I don’t worry as much as I used to, but it still bites once in a while.

Typically:

1. On images that are low key or/and have significantly dark areas in the image.
2. I use the Enhance Black Overcoat feature, often in combination w/ #1 above.
3. It tends to be in the center of the width of the roll more often than at either edge.  Which makes me think “paper swelling” may be at least part of the problem - though I’ve experienced it w/ zero “apparent” paper deformation.  I think the head on the 7570, even w/ the platen gap set max, is VERY close to the surface of the paper and there’s not much wiggle room there.

In order of application / effectiveness, I mitigate by:

1. Lowering “Color Density” (ink load) by 8 to 10%.  This seems to be the limit w/o lowering print quality. 
2. Increase suction.
3. Maximize the platen gap as a last resort.

I’ve experienced it on Canson Platine, Epson Legacy Platine, any of the original Barytas like Epson and Ilford (and now on Simply Elegant Gold Fibre).  It seems like it is more likely to happen in the first 1/3 of the image from the leading edge.

I’ve not yet experienced it on any of the matte papers I prefer - but that may be because I don’t tend to print low key, dark / mysterious images on matte papers.

As to extra leading edge, I typically do that on the first image on the session after having loaded the roll.   Some papers cannot seem to be held “flat enough” in the first few inches (from the printer’s normal starting position) to avoid paper edge head strikes / scuffs.   Epson Legacy Platine and Canson Platine Fibre Rag seem especially prone to this for some reason.  I’ve taken to using Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss as my go-to “platine like” paper - it lays/stays very flat in both cut sheets and rolls.

Rand

[hubell]

Rand, Canson’s recommended settings for the Platine Fiber Rag and the Canson Prestige with the  7570/9570 printers say to reduce Color Density by -15. Interestingly, Hahnemuhle’s recommended media settings on its website for the 7570/9570 do not contain any special adjustments for any of its Fine Art papers, even though some of their papers are likely identical to the two Canson papers.

[Rand47]

Rand, Canson’s recommended settings for the Platine Fiber Rag and the Canson Prestige with the  7570/9570 printers say to reduce Color Density by -15. Interestingly, Hahnemuhle’s recommended media settings on its website for the 7570/9570 do not contain any special adjustments for any of its Fine Art papers, even though some of their papers are likely identical to the two Canson papers.

Yup…. it’s a confused bag out there for sure.  And, one of the things that may not be accounted for are “possible” (perhaps even probable) changes to ink density defaults for various papers though the manifold (and completely undocumented for users) firmware / driver / EMI updates issued “after” the ICC profiling efforts of 3rd party paper manufacturers!  If this is the case, are the instructions for use of their profiles still accurate / best practice?  Who can know w/o their own testing.  One manufacturer, who will remain nameless, even has as a parameter that “Enhance Black Overcoat” should be used all the time with their ICC profile.  Say what?  LOL 

Rand

[hubell]

Yup…. it’s a confused bag out there for sure.  And, one of the things that may not be accounted for are “possible” (perhaps even probable) changes to ink density defaults for various papers though the manifold (and completely undocumented for users) firmware / driver / EMI updates issued “after” the ICC profiling efforts of 3rd party paper manufacturers!  If this is the case, are the instructions for use of their profiles still accurate / best practice?  Who can know w/o their own testing.  One manufacturer, who will remain nameless, even has as a parameter that “Enhance Black Overcoat” should be used all the time with their ICC profile.  Say what?  LOL 

Rand

I have been running some tests with certain Hahnemuhle fine art papers on the 9570, and I used the EMY files from Hahnemuhle to import H's profiles/settings into the EMI. I just assumed H was providing a simplified way to transfer the paper type and ICC profile info into the EMI. However, when I ran a test print with Hahnemuhle Baryta FB, I was struck by how long the print took to complete, and I had no idea why. So, I checked the settings in the printer, and sure enough the Dry Time setting was set at 3 seconds. Each time the print head went across the page, it stopped for 3 seconds before resuming. With a 30"x40" print., that would really extend the printing time!

[KingLouie]

Throwing in my two cents here for what it's worth. Some context:

I manage the lab at a fine art photography school and have had a lot of epson printers come through my doors. Stylus-Pro 4800s, 4880s, 4900s, 7900s, 7800, Sure Color P 6000s, P5000 and one Canon iPF8300 to name just a few. In a teaching environment you really need a hardy printer. It takes a beating in our classes as many students of all skill levels are using it every day. I was stoked to see that Epson FINALLY came out with a printer that does not need to switch between the black ink sets - this eliminates a massive hurdle when trying to teach.

So far my experience with the Sure ColorP P9570 44":

TL,DR: Bad experience with the P9570 so far. It has lots of issues I never had before, and thats saying a lot with Epson! Still in-warranty and so far the print head and pump cap assy have been replaced.

So far it has not been a great experience. We bought the printer in 2021 and I have had D1 techs come out for visits 3 times so far. The printer is annoying in the sense that small changes were made for no apparent reason. ex: inks are now different names, driver interface is changed, some controls are hardware-based only now, glitchy menu loops that trap you in circles... and so on. My main points of contention are what a lot of people have been talking about: the printhead is extremely prone to head striking, which in turn causes clogs nozzles which will then force you to clean more often, which we all know wastes ink. Additionally, I had an issue about 6 months in where I'd be needing to run cleanings pretty much every single day. The nozzle checks showed breaks in random spots and would jump around cleaning after cleaning. I began to feel like I was chasing the broken pattern around - seriously! 10-15 cleanings and I still couldn't get a completely clear nozzle check. Seeing as cleanings take around 5-10 minutes each, I would spend huge chunks of my day doing this. The D1 tech in my area has been extremely helpful during the whole process but has also told me that he's seeing a lot of problems so far with the P9570's. Mostly having to do with the printheads getting damaged due to head striking.
 

[mearussi]

Unfortunately, as a previous Epson owner your problems sound all too familiar.

[vjbelle]

I have been running some tests with certain Hahnemuhle fine art papers on the 9570, and I used the EMY files from Hahnemuhle to import H's profiles/settings into the EMI. I just assumed H was providing a simplified way to transfer the paper type and ICC profile info into the EMI. However, when I ran a test print with Hahnemuhle Baryta FB, I was struck by how long the print took to complete, and I had no idea why. So, I checked the settings in the printer, and sure enough the Dry Time setting was set at 3 seconds. Each time the print head went across the page, it stopped for 3 seconds before resuming. With a 30"x40" print., that would really extend the printing time!

Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you.  I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread.  I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper. 

Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing? 

Victor B.

[Rand47]

Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you.  I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread.  I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper. 

Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing? 

Victor B.

Hi Victor,   I’m not Howard, but “right now” I’d not recommend the 9570.  When it prints “right” it is beautiful.  But it is too unpredictable at the moment.  I can say that many of the initial issues have been eliminated or improved through firmware, driver, EMI updates over the last 2 years.  9 firmware updates (of course we have no clue as to what any of them did since Epson doesn’t say) that I’ve tracked so far.  But some of the issues seem “mechanical” in nature and I’m not sure any of us are convinced (at the moment) that they can be fixed via firmware, etc.

Rand

[vjbelle]

Hello Rand..... much appreciate your post.  I have followed your experiences with the 9570 and am in the situation where I have to do something as my beloved ipf8400 is acting up.  I print mostly 46 to 48 inches LS but mostly for myself so light duty for the printer.  I could easily opt for a p9000 which is also high on my list.  This is a printer just for me and my stuff but I am picky and I have been printing for a long time and have thrown away Epson printers.  I would do it a little differently this time by never being without a service contract.  So, maybe the P9000 should be really high on my short list as I will never have to bother with switching black inks as I never print matt.  My real connection with the P9570 is that its ppi is 300 vs. 360.  I've become very used to 300ppi resolution with my Canon printer and always print at 600ppi.  Maybe all of the other minuses 'WAY' overlook that one plus for me but I thought that my limited paper selection would make the printer more friendly.  However I would easily opt for a P9000......

Much appreciate your input.

Victor B.

[hubell]

Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you.  I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread.  I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper. 

Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing? 

Victor B.

Hi, Victor. Good to hear from you. Here is some feedback.
I have been working with my 9570 for a couple of months now after my 9900 finally bit the dust. Much of the time has been spent testing. The reason for all of the testing is that, as you can tell from some of the threads here and elsewhere, the 7570/9570 printers have been plagued by a series of significant issues from the start. I have owned three large format Epson printers over the last 20 year+ years...a 10000, a 9800, and a 9900. Aside  from the repeated clogging issues, these printers worked and printed beautifully. I used a wide variety of Epson and Canson papers and never had to fiddle with the myriad of printer settings that could be adjusted in the printer driver. I just had to be sure to select the right ICC profile and Media Type in the driver in Photoshop print driver. On the first roll of paper that I loaded in 9570,  the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta Satin, I immediately started running into problems with head strikes, which lead to ink smears and paper scuffing/dings. In addition, shortly after I started to print from the roll, the printer expelled a bunch of paper under the cover. vWhen I opened the cover and tried to rewind the excess paper onto the roll, it wouldn't work. I quickly figured out that the end of the paper had detached from the cardboard core. So, I had to remove  the roll and retape the end of the paper to the core.
The head strike issues are definitely an issue with heavier weight fine art photo papers, but apparently not with lighter weight photo papers like Epson Premium Luster. There are a number of different printer settings that can be adjusted to deal with the head strike issues. Paper thickness, platen gap, drying time, suction, roll tension. Depending upon the specific paper characteristics, it appears SO FAR to be possible to adjust these settings to resolve the head strikes. I think I have finally dialed them in with the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta Satin. I generally standardize on 1 or 2 papers to use with photo black ink, and the same with matte black ink, so the experimenting with the printer settings is much less of an issue for me than for a production house that is using a large variety of papers. However, the issue with the roll paper detaching from the core may still be an issue. Epson is well aware of the issue, but has never acknowledged it and has no solution for it. There are a couple of workarounds that I am trying, but no answer yet.
Now that I know what I know, would I recommend buying a 7570 or 9570? As of today, unlikely, because I am not sure if I have resolved the key issues. The Epson 9000 is an easier choice. I think the print quality with the 9570 is marginally better and there is no ink switching between photo black and matte black ink, but if you only use photo black ink, that's not an issue. I have never printed on canvas paper, so I have no idea if there are head strike issues with them on the 9570.

[vjbelle]

Thank you Howard for the reply.  It seems that you are in the majority as not recommending this printer for a variety of reasons.  For sure I am going to take a pass and if I need to make a purchase it will be the 9000.  I am lucky to have been able to reconcile the issues with my 8400 so for now I can sit this out to see if Epson can make the 9500 series a viable purchase. 

I'm still at somewhat of disbelief as to the numerous problems associated with the 9500 series and am thankful that I was not an early or any purchaser.  It's not just the money but more the extreme hassle of getting everything to work - even if at a subpar level. 

Wish you the best and thanks for the advice.....

Regards,

Victor B.

[deanwork]

I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. It looks like the 9570 is going to end up being a long drawn out painful saga. Without major hardware revisions I don’t see how they fix the problems.

You should hold onto the 8400 as long as possible. I wish I had one right now! I miss my 8300 so much in so many ways . It was more than rock solid and so frugal with ink. If Canon had been smart they would have just kept producing the 8400 or just make very minor upgrades.

My feeling is, nothing recent from any of these three companies is worth buying, and that’s kind of unbelievable.

John

Thank you Howard for the reply.  It seems that you are in the majority as not recommending this printer for a variety of reasons.  For sure I am going to take a pass and if I need to make a purchase it will be the 9000.  I am lucky to have been able to reconcile the issues with my 8400 so for now I can sit this out to see if Epson can make the 9500 series a viable purchase. 

I'm still at somewhat of disbelief as to the numerous problems associated with the 9500 series and am thankful that I was not an early or any purchaser.  It's not just the money but more the extreme hassle of getting everything to work - even if at a subpar level. 

Wish you the best and thanks for the advice.....

Regards,

Victor B.

[mearussi]

I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. It looks like the 9570 is going to end up being a long drawn out painful saga. Without major hardware revisions I don’t see how they fix the problems.

You should hold onto the 8400 as long as possible. I wish I had one right now! I miss my 8300 so much in so many ways . It was more than rock solid and so frugal with ink. If Canon had been smart they would have just kept producing the 8400 or just make very minor upgrades.

My feeling is, nothing recent from any of these three companies is worth buying, and that’s kind of unbelievable.

John

Good insight. I have a 6400 and 8300 and if they ever have any problems (none so far thankfully) I'm just going to get them repaired instead of replaced.