Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: jeffreybehr on November 08, 2021, 08:03:15 pm
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I ordered an Epson P7000 printer from B&H on 2021Aug15 since I wanted a 24" Epson printer*, it was a current model, and it was priced $1100 of so below the P7570.. Turns out the P7000 may never be built again--or at least deiivered--in my lifetime, so I've replaced it with the P7570.. It should arrive the week of 15 November, and I'll be placing it in the family room since there's no room in my office.
Could some users of these pls share, briefly, your satisfaction with the printer itself and the quality of its output?. I'll be using Epson premium luster roll paper with it for fotografy.
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* I've had several in my 21 years of being an amateur-but-sometimes-quite-active fotog and have been about 90% satisfied with them.
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Best to post that on the Epson forum.
https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat
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Do a search on this site. I’ve previously posted my somewhat extensive (good, and bad) experience with this printer. As of 11-12-21 with the latest firmware / driver, this is the best printer I’ve ever owned. Its mode of operation (using Epson Media Installer) and the ins and outs of using enhance black overcoat function, are “different” and take a little getting used to. Once dialed in, it’s a very nice workflow.
If you’re going to be printing on UPPPL in rolls, it should be dead-simple to operate. I’d recommend a custom ICC profile.
Rand
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Best to post that on the Epson forum.
https://groups.io/g/EpsonWideFormat
I've started that process--sent my e-mail address--a half-dozen times in three days and have yet to receive the alleged message.
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Do a search on this site. I’ve previously posted my somewhat extensive (good, and bad) experience with this printer. As of 11-12-21 with the latest firmware / driver, this is the best printer I’ve ever owned. Its mode of operation (using Epson Media Installer) and the ins and outs of using enhance black overcoat function, are “different” and take a little getting used to. Once dialed in, it’s a very nice workflow.
If you’re going to be printing on UPPPL in rolls, it should be dead-simple to operate. I’d recommend a custom ICC profile.
Rand
I just now Searched for 'P7570'; my message above is the only return.
And I'm happy to read the 'dead-simple' note. TYVM. I'll keep searching for your
note.
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Search for P9570
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I have two of these now, and it's a mixed bag. I bought them to replace two P-9000's, and because I needed something faster.
First, the P-9570 is fast. There is no question that having twice the speed helps in a production environment. So that part is good. The color is good, although I'm not sure why Epson changed from Light Black and Light Light black to Grey and Light grey. That makes no sense to me, except to make me buy all new ink and sell my P-9000 ink on ebay.
Other than the speed, there are a few nice things about it. It has access to the head, so it can easily be manually cleaned. It has access to the capping station, so keeping that maintained is easier. It has a light in the printer, so it's easier to see what's going on while it's printing. And lastly, you can use photo ink and matte ink without switching inks, and that is a real advantage for those of us that use multiple papers.
But all that being said, my satisfaction with the Epson SureColor P-9570 is very low. I have had service techs out twice now, only to really find out that the troubles I'm seeing are expected behavior. First, it cannot take 75 ft rolls of Moab Entrada. Techs that came out confirmed that they have seen this in the field, and that the P-9570 seems to have a hard time with heavier rolls. What happens is that the P-9570 will only print if the roll cover is closed, and with larger rolls, it ends up stuffing the paper up inside the roll cover, damaging the paper, and costing time and money. Insisting on keeping the cover closed is the root cause of that. And since Epson specifically markets this as a fine art printer, this is an unacceptable shortcoming.
Also, we've had issues for years now with Moab Entrada and Canson Aquarelle and Canson Velin coming off the rolls. They always come off the core towards the end, but with the P-9570, they're coming off the rolls much sooner, and as soon as they do, the printer can't function. It spits out a good 4-5 feet of paper, and then says "paper not detected". And at that point you have to remove the paper (usually with several errors on the control panel), tape the paper to the core again, and then put it back. With previous models, like the Epson 9900 and P-9000, with the cover open, it would send some paper up into the core area, but with the cover open it wasn't an issue. We could continue printing. But with the P-9570, we have had to tape every single roll of paper back onto the core, every single time. It's tedious and time consuming, and it's damaging paper, and costing us employee time and aggravation. And we have two of them, so we know it's not an issue with a particular printer.
LCD menu errors: I have a theory that Epson had a summer intern program the LCD menu panel. I've never seen so many false errors in my life. It will say "close the cover", and then "paper not detected. Open the cover", and other such things. All of it's programming is done around that cover being opened and closed, but it gets confused often, and isn't sure what it wants. So you have to play a game of open the cover, close the cover, until it figures it out. It's a complete waste of time.
Another LCD menu issue is that when you're finished with a roll of paper, and it's ejected, you close the cover, and the LCD menu says "Set Paper". When you press that, it forces you into setting paper. But the Home button doesn't work at that point. There is no way to get out of that menu, so if you want to see the menu, and look at ink levels, etc, then it won't work. You have to set the paper. I called Epson, and they said that was "normal". I did, however, discover a workaround, by taking advantage of the fact that the P-9570 gets confused. If you just open and close the cover a few times, it eventually acts like it has rolled paper in it, and you can access the menu. Opening the cover again causes the "set paper" button to reappear. Clearly the menu on the P-9570 needs to be completely revised. It's just a mess.
Paper Remaining The P-9570 has a new function called paper remaining. When you first put on a roll of paper, you can tell it how much is remaining, and it will keep track for you. On the surface, this is a nice functionality. But in reality, it really only works if you never take the paper off the printer. When you eject a roll, and the paper remaining function is on, the P-9570 prints a bar code kind of thing on the end of the roll, showing how much paper is left. But what we've found is that if you change papers, then put that roll back, it doesn't work. You have to tell it manually how much paper is left by reading the printout, and sometimes it won't let you, giving an error of "value not in range". So it's not actually reading the bar code at all. In fact, if you print or run a print head test, it will print right over the top of the bar code, showing that the printer is completely unaware of the bar code being there. Maybe someone else has figured it out, but we've only seen error upon error with this functionality, and unless you're going to print the entire roll without removing it, it's just a hassle. Not only that, it takes 2 1/2" inches of paper to do it, when it should be done with a half inch. Epson's paper waste is only rivaled by its ink waste.
Epson Driver Issues: Epson decided to remove a bunch of functionality from the driver, like dry time and paper feed adjustment. Those are very often used functions for adjusting for things like canvas slippage, and for resolving slight banding issues with feed adjustment, but they are gone in the driver. Dry time is also gone, and often we would increase dry time for substrates that don't dry fast, like removable adhesive vinyl. This is a serious short coming, and Epson would be well advised to put that functionality back in the driver. It's also worth noting that you cannot change the feed adjustment on the printer either. That functionality is gone.
We use Colorbyte's Imageprint, and convinced them to use the API to put that functionality back (it was still in their menu but wasn't working), so we do have a solution with our RIP, but unless your RIP continues to offer this functionality, you won't find it in the printer drivers or the LCD menu anywhere.
Paper Meandering We have seen paper skew from time to time, but it was never a huge issue. Now we get the "paper meandering" error ALL the time. We always have to ignore it, because it wants you to unload and reload the paper, but it will continue to meander, as if it has somewhere to go. This error is so common that you need to keep an eye on the printer and make sure it's still printing, otherwise it will sit and do nothing until you tell it to ignore the issue. And sometimes when you ignore the issue, it prints blurry as the paper shifts, and then you have expensive misprints. We get misprints like this often - almost every day at some point.
Ink Waste We have opened and checked cartridges that are "empty" and some of them have used most of the ink, but it's still very common to open an ink cartridge that says it's empty, and find 100ml of ink left in a 700ml cartridge. It's hit and miss, and there has been no improvement there.
Color The color is good. It is richer than the P-9000, and sometimes too rich. We've managed to make some good profiles and we do get rich color, and in my opinion the color is still better than the Canon printers, especially since Canon elected to remove the green ink in their latest line of printers. In fact, I purchased a Canon Pro 1000 to test the color and profile it, and see if we could consider moving to Canon, but I found that the color gamut was lacking compared to the Epson Printers, even the P9000.
Conclusion For the first time in years, Epson has offered a new aqueous printer that has some new and exciting functionality that should have commercial printers excited, but the execution has been so terrible, that you can't help but hate the printer. The amount of errors from the printer, misprints, poorly thought out menus, and missing driver functionality are astounding. Most of this should be solvable in firmware and software, if Epson chose to address the issues, but as it stands, this is the worst implementation of their drivers and printer firmware I've ever seen, and I've had every model since the 9800 over the last 14 years.
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Epson Driver Issues: Epson decided to remove a bunch of functionality from the driver, like dry time and paper feed adjustment. Those are very often used functions for adjusting for things like canvas slippage, and for resolving slight banding issues with feed adjustment, but they are gone in the driver. Dry time is also gone, and often we would increase dry time for substrates that don't dry fast, like removable adhesive vinyl. This is a serious short coming, and Epson would be well advised to put that functionality back in the driver. It's also worth noting that you cannot change the feed adjustment on the printer either. That functionality is gone.
At first this really bugged me. But I then discovered that this new series printer has a new scheme for such things based on the Epson Media Installer (EMI) being used in conjunction with the printer’s internals via the LCD panel. For each paper type, both Epson and those custom media types created in EMI and “registered” to the printer, those formerly available parameters in the driver are now paper specific and adjustable at the time of creation in EMI and/or via the LCD panel for that paper when loaded. The settings via LCD are “sticky” so that you can fine tune the settings and they will be applied each time you load “that paper type” via its selection in the LCD menu when loading. It’s actually pretty elegant, once you get used to the difference in approach.
Rand
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So Rand,
You are NOT having the scraping issues with significant expensive media and ink waste, like just about everyone else is experiencing? Nor the ripping of paper from the rolls? Rolls are what production printing is all about.
I am no tech or engineer, but it seems to me that all of these printer revisions are the product of Epson wanting to beat the competition in regard to speed, and everything else was designed around that.
I know when I had the Canon 8300 I aligned the print head for bi directional and this doubled the speed with no difference in image quality. Why couldn’t Epson do that?
I know the new HP Z9 took a different approach and redesigned the dot placement of the heads from single ink droplets to a dual drop tech ( it was not even promoted ) that allowed them to radically increase printer speed with really good resolution and color gamut and very smooth very neutral bw. I was shocked that they could make that work while at the same time using half as many inks and universal heads that work with any color channels ( no light inks needed ) . Unfortunately the bean counters at HP lost interest in this printer almost immediately and never finished the software for the internal profiling, and never widely promoted their own system. I don’t know anyone who actually bought one. They make their money from latex systems.
John
At first this really bugged me. But I then discovered that this new series printer has a new scheme for such things based on the Epson Media Installer (EMI) being used in conjunction with the printer’s internals via the LCD panel. For each paper type, both Epson and those custom media types created in EMI and “registered” to the printer, those formerly available parameters in the driver are now paper specific and adjustable at the time of creation in EMI and/or via the LCD panel for that paper when loaded. The settings via LCD are “sticky” so that you can fine tune the settings and they will be applied each time you load “that paper type” via its selection in the LCD menu when loading. It’s actually pretty elegant, once you get used to the difference in approach.
Rand
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We don't have any experience with this printer, but Epson just posted this information regarding it:
"Have users run into Media Skew issues with Epson Legacy and Signature Worthy medias printing to the SureColor P9570? If so update the medias in the Epson Media Installer through Media Download.
Any medias needing updates will have a status of "Update Available" The 2/11/22 update includes enabling Lateral Feed Adjustment by default and this along with Skew Reduction will help with reducing skew errors when loading and printing.
When "Lateral Feed Adjustment" is set to "On", Paper Feed on the home and full sides can be made uniform by the Sub Paper Feed Roller and Sub Paper Feed Slack Sensor. These settings will be on by default with this update.
If other Epson or other manufacturers medias are skewing, you can also enable Lateral Feed Adjustment as a custom media type or through the Printer LCD through by clicking on your loaded media and navigating to Advanced Paper Settings where you can find the selection of Lateral Feed Adjustment."
They must be following the Luminous Landscape forum!
Tony
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Thank you.
They are two years behind with their own media functionality! What a bizarre mess. And that’s the easy part.
What they are not talking about is the disaster of media scraping, uneven ink absorption, and paper being ripped off the rolls which can easily damage these super expensive heads. Oh well, time to move on .
We don't have any experience with this printer, but Epson just posted this information regarding it:
"Have users run into Media Skew issues with Epson Legacy and Signature Worthy medias printing to the SureColor P9570? If so update the medias in the Epson Media Installer through Media Download.
Any medias needing updates will have a status of "Update Available" The 2/11/22 update includes enabling Lateral Feed Adjustment by default and this along with Skew Reduction will help with reducing skew errors when loading and printing.
When "Lateral Feed Adjustment" is set to "On", Paper Feed on the home and full sides can be made uniform by the Sub Paper Feed Roller and Sub Paper Feed Slack Sensor. These settings will be on by default with this update.
If other Epson or other manufacturers medias are skewing, you can also enable Lateral Feed Adjustment as a custom media type or through the Printer LCD through by clicking on your loaded media and navigating to Advanced Paper Settings where you can find the selection of Lateral Feed Adjustment."
They must be following the Luminous Landscape forum!
Tony
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I would have stuck with the 7000. Not getting that much extra for the $1100 difference. Black switching, no big deal. New inks, agin not a big deal. When I looked at them its was $1400 difference. Ended up with 2 P8000's and saved almost 3 grand.
If taken care of you can get 5 to 10 years out of them.
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So Rand,
You are NOT having the scraping issues with significant expensive media and ink waste, like just about everyone else is experiencing? Nor the ripping of paper from the rolls? . . .
. . .
John
Hi John,
I don’t think I said that. What I said was that the EMI “scheme” is pretty cool. It is. But, if you read other of my posts here and other places over the last two years, and the Epson Wide Format mailing list, you’d see that this printer drove me insane for the first 6 months I owned it. To the point that I almost told Epson to come and get it. They hooked me up with a pro tech person and we worked through some of the early, and really ugly teething problems. At first, Epson Tech support reps didn’t even know there was such a printer. I was a very early adopter. Then, once they did and I was hooked up with a pro tech person, they didn’t have access to their “lab” on Long Beach due to COVID lock down. I ended up documenting and making videos that I sent to my Epson person illustrating issues. He worked with various “teams” at Epson to work on fixes. Even though I was pleased with the effort expended on my behalf, and some of the results gained, it was obvious that some of the “teams” didn’t know what the other “teams” were doing and how things interacted on this brand new machine. I could not make prints, but in the initial COVID lock down, my wife made the comment that … “At least you have something to challenge you and occupy your time…” Sort of funny…. more so now than then.
Today, I occasionally encounter the typical problems. I’ve spent a couple of hours with some surgical tools, getting masking tape removed from the feed system after the thing dragged masking tape through the paper feed after ripping the roll off of the core. Epson paper no less. So, now I deduct 27” off of the roll length in my paper use spread sheet each time I put a fresh roll in. So that I know that when I hit “zero” there’s enough paper left on the roll for it not to get ripped off of the core. And, I’ve learned how to mitigate the head dragging through the fresh ink on heavily inked areas of an image. It works “most of the time.” So, “work arounds galore” and I have a pretty dependable printer that makes stunning prints. Also, as a result of all the time spent “sorting it all out,” I probably know this printer better than any of the other dozen or so printers I’ve owned.
Bottom line is that through about 8 firmware / driver / EMI updates the printer is now “usable” and makes glorious prints. But it is still, in general, a very finicky and flawed machine in many respects, right along side being a brilliant machine in other respects, e.g. the excellent sheet feed mechanism. Since my 7570 is only a 24” version, I think some of the issues are less troublesome than on the 44” version.
Would I buy it again? Not sure. Does Epson still have some work to do re firmware, driver fixes? Heck yes.
One of the things that makes living with this printer “OK” for me is that I’m not a production shop. I’m a one-off and small edition run, fine art print shop with a small but loyal clientele. I’ve learned to re-price my services to compensate for the wastage of paper using rolls that need leading edge “extra margin” and the loss of 27” of paper on the trailing edge of the roll that is necessary to avoid the more catastrophic ripping the paper off the core and getting jammed up in the printer.
So, EMI is great, once understood and correctly implemented. That’s what I said. And the printer makes stunning prints. Better than any printer I’ve owned. But it’s a very troubled machine nevertheless.
Rand
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I believe you. Just read all your past posts. You’ve really been through the wringer and they should pay you for your own beta testing. There are many like you out there.
I have had 10 large format photo printers here and many smaller one over the last 20 years and I have never owned a single one that I couldn’t set up and just start doing serious work the first day, even the very first Epsons. Thankfully I never bought one of the early 9900s with defective heads.
It seems clear to me and some of the resellers that this is not a situation in which they are going to wake up and write a software and firmware update to make the system function as a normal system should. They need to completely redesign the entire head unit in regard to how it moves along the media, right? But even then, you most likely still have the nightmarish problem of roll media ripping off the roll and bunching up ( Hahnemuehle, Canson, Moab, Epson fine art. )
I can’t fathom why they didn’t beta test this for a year before releasing.
The irony of course is that extremely experienced art production printmakers all over the world are the very people that can’t get anything done. It’s really only halfway completed as a reliable technology option, and it’s going to cost you money on wasted media, ink, and especially time. If the Decision One techs are saying they hate the series, then you’ve got serious problems. Just going in there and replacing expensive parts while you are still in warranty is not doing anything.
Actually the reason I wanted one was for the black ink capability of auto switching and the hope for less ink waste and less cleaning cycles needed with these improved heads.
The mysterious part of the story for me is why after all the time the 10k and 20k units were out there they couldn’t have figured all this stuff out before releasing a new variant.
The only question I have is , does it really have a better color gamut than the P9000 ? I’m hearing people also say not to use the black overcoat ( one of their amazing innovations they claimed ) because it just makes everything more complicated and problematic . I was really wanting to use that for bw. Oh well, time to move on. It has been interesting to follow this saga but there is no conclusion in sight.
John
Hi John,
I don’t think I said that. What I said was that the EMI “scheme” is pretty cool. It is. But, if you read other of my posts here and other places over the last two years, and the Epson Wide Format mailing list, you’d see that this printer drove me insane for the first 6 months I owned it. To the point that I almost told Epson to come and get it. They hooked me up with a pro tech person and we worked through some of the early, and really ugly teething problems. At first, Epson Tech support reps didn’t even know there was such a printer. I was a very early adopter. Then, once they did and I was hooked up with a pro tech person, they didn’t have access to their “lab” on Long Beach due to COVID lock down. I ended up documenting and making videos that I sent to my Epson person illustrating issues. He worked with various “teams” at Epson to work on fixes. Even though I was pleased with the effort expended on my behalf, and some of the results gained, it was obvious that some of the “teams” didn’t know what the other “teams” were doing and how things interacted on this brand new machine. I could not make prints, but in the initial COVID lock down, my wife made the comment that … “At least you have something to challenge you and occupy your time…” Sort of funny…. more so now than then.
Today, I occasionally encounter the typical problems. I’ve spent a couple of hours with some surgical tools, getting masking tape removed from the feed system after the thing dragged masking tape through the paper feed after ripping the roll off of the core. Epson paper no less. So, now I deduct 27” off of the roll length in my paper use spread sheet each time I put a fresh roll in. So that I know that when I hit “zero” there’s enough paper left on the roll for it not to get ripped off of the core. And, I’ve learned how to mitigate the head dragging through the fresh ink on heavily inked areas of an image. It works “most of the time.” So, “work arounds galore” and I have a pretty dependable printer that makes stunning prints. Also, as a result of all the time spent “sorting it all out,” I probably know this printer better than any of the other dozen or so printers I’ve owned.
Bottom line is that through about 8 firmware / driver / EMI updates the printer is now “usable” and makes glorious prints. But it is still, in general, a very finicky and flawed machine in many respects, right along side being a brilliant machine in other respects, e.g. the excellent sheet feed mechanism. Since my 7570 is only a 24” version, I think some of the issues are less troublesome than on the 44” version.
Would I buy it again? Not sure. Does Epson still have some work to do re firmware, driver fixes? Heck yes.
One of the things that makes living with this printer “OK” for me is that I’m not a production shop. I’m a one-off and small edition run, fine art print shop with a small but loyal clientele. I’ve learned to re-price my services to compensate for the wastage of paper using rolls that need leading edge “extra margin” and the loss of 27” of paper on the trailing edge of the roll that is necessary to avoid the more catastrophic ripping the paper off the core and getting jammed up in the printer.
So, EMI is great, once understood and correctly implemented. That’s what I said. And the printer makes stunning prints. Better than any printer I’ve owned. But it’s a very troubled machine nevertheless.
Rand
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To answer my own question--I've been using my P7570 for a few months and LOVE it...the super-hi-quality prints, reliability, lack of trouble of ANY kind.. I use only Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper (260), and after not finding quickly, months ago, the Epson inktanks I wanted, I diligently searched B&H, Adorama, and ITSupplies.. After a month or so, I have ALL colors in stock.. With their Payboo creditcard absorbing Arizona's 8.6% salestax and their free-shipping policy, B&H has the lowest prices on paper and ink.. I drive it with a 50-foot USB cable (which includes 2 boosters), and I use PSCC and ACR exclusively.. This is certainly the BEST 24" printer (of several over the 22 years I've been a fotog) I've ever had, and it's also the newest and most expensive.
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Premium Luster should be a no-brainer on any printer. It’s also dirt cheap compared to the premium thicker fiber media we have been discussing. As for image quality the 2440 resolution is certainly not better than the P9000 which is 2880.
Also the 9570 44” which I was going to buy is the model giving people the real headaches, but with the thicker media I use the 24” is having issues as well for a lot of folks.
John
To answer my own question--I've been using my P7570 for a few months and LOVE it...the super-hi-quality prints, reliability, lack of trouble of ANY kind.. I use only Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper (260), and after not finding quickly, months ago, the Epson inktanks I wanted, I diligently searched B&H, Adorama, and ITSupplies.. After a month or so, I have ALL colors in stock.. With their Payboo creditcard absorbing Arizona's 8.6% salestax and their free-shipping policy, B&H has the lowest prices on paper and ink.. I drive it with a 50-foot USB cable (which includes 2 boosters), and I use PSCC and ACR exclusively.. This is certainly the BEST 24" printer (of several over the 22 years I've been a fotog) I've ever had, and it's also the newest and most expensive.
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To answer my own question--I've been using my P7570 for a few months and LOVE it...the super-hi-quality prints, reliability, lack of trouble of ANY kind.. I use only Epson Premium Luster Photo Paper (260), and after not finding quickly, months ago, the Epson inktanks I wanted, I diligently searched B&H, Adorama, and ITSupplies.. After a month or so, I have ALL colors in stock.. With their Payboo creditcard absorbing Arizona's 8.6% salestax and their free-shipping policy, B&H has the lowest prices on paper and ink.. I drive it with a 50-foot USB cable (which includes 2 boosters), and I use PSCC and ACR exclusively.. This is certainly the BEST 24" printer (of several over the 22 years I've been a fotog) I've ever had, and it's also the newest and most expensive.
Jeffery,
You’re pretty much Epson’s “target audience” …. thin paper, Epson brand, using rolls I assume. I would expect the printer to be pretty much perfect using it in this limited range. Besides which many of the annoying bugs have been weeded out via firmware / driver / EMI updates. Since you’re using only EPPPL, you have no need for EMI at all, since that paper type comes “already registered” in the printer / driver.
At least part of the problem is that Epson sees your situation as “typical” and it isn’t. I can’t escape the notion that all the “testing” they did with it was using EPPPL - and said to themselves, “Hey this thing is ready for Prime Time!” NOT
It does make beautiful prints. And the color gamut is “incrementally better” than the previous inkset (I sitll use printers using both and the 7570 is better in the “blues / violets” as one might expect, and in some areas of green / yellow-green. But the image itself has to “have those colors” and a quick look at the image file in ColorThink Pro in comparison to the ICC profiles for various printers / papers shows me that the extra gamut rarely comes into play. But when it does, it matters.
By the way, and I hope I do not offend in making this comment ( I think I might, but not my intent to offend. ) - If I only printed on EPPPL this is the last printer I’d buy. You’re really missing out, IMO, using only that stuff. It’s very mediocre in almost all respects. Here’s a fun challenge for you. Get a box of Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss paper. Have a custom ICC profile made for it by someone like Andrew Rodney. Work up an image with a broad scene referenced gamut, to your liking, and then soft proof to both EPPPL and the IFGG and make prints. You’ll be surprised at the difference. And you’ll see where this printer can really shine. And that’s just one nice paper among so many beautiful options available, that many of us are using for our work.
Rand
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At least part of the problem is that Epson sees your situation as “typical” and it isn’t. I can’t escape the notion that all the “testing” they did with it was using EPPPL - and said to themselves, “Hey this thing is ready for Prime Time!” NOT
Sadly, we have come to that same conclusion. We print primarily on fine art papers. While the printer prints beautifully when the prints are free of scuffs etc., we sit on pins & needles watching very critical prints "develop" in the printer hoping, praying for no scuffs etc. Now we know why they put lights in the carriage. When these scuffs occur, maximum platen, max vacuum, roll back tension and even a max thickness do not fix the issue. Our D1 tech visited last week told me "I hate that machine. Why did they put the head so damn close?" Sample attached.
We have had few problems with 24" rolls or sheets which feed beautifully. The 44" rolls are when the anxiety really begins.
We installed our 9570 around the same time as Rand. Yes indeed it has been a ride. Epson learned from us (users). I called our techs here to ask a question about EMI and was promptly told that Epson doesn't support third part software. The tech was then educated by us as to what the "E" stood for. So, forums like this have been a god-send.
Mick
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The deal is, a “ production printer” which is what the 9570 is marketed as, is a device that you can click on to print 20 or 100 or more copies of a file and walk away and do other things. The whole idea of standing there looking to see if your prints are scuffed or whether the roll will rip off the core is absurd.
One of the reasons thousands of people went to Canon for mass production is you never had to stress out about wondering if a nozzle would clog halfway through with our Epsons. Then Epson improved the missing nozzle head situation. But now it’s far worse , you have to worry about all kinds of things, and at a time when our prime media prices and inks have gone up.
Problem is we have a situation with both Epson and Hp where the companies are run by sales departments (not tech people, ) who know nothing about their products at all. Then they throw it in the lap of Decision One who have to deal with the real headaches. I never thought I’d feel sorry for D1 but I do now.
John
Sadly, we have come to that same conclusion. We print primarily on fine art papers. While the printer prints beautifully when the prints are free of scuffs etc., we sit on pins & needles watching very critical prints "develop" in the printer hoping, praying for no scuffs etc. Now we know why they put lights in the carriage. When these scuffs occur, maximum platen, max vacuum, roll back tension and even a max thickness do not fix the issue. Our D1 tech visited last week told me "I hate that machine. Why did they put the head so damn close?" Sample attached.
We have had few problems with 24" rolls or sheets which feed beautifully. The 44" rolls are when the anxiety really begins.
We installed our 9570 around the same time as Rand. Yes indeed it has been a ride. Epson learned from us (users). I called our techs here to ask a question about EMI and was promptly told that Epson doesn't support third part software. The tech was then educated by us as to what the "E" stood for. So, forums like this have been a god-send.
Mick
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Sadly, we have come to that same conclusion. We print primarily on fine art papers. While the printer prints beautifully when the prints are free of scuffs etc., we sit on pins & needles watching very critical prints "develop" in the printer hoping, praying for no scuffs etc. Now we know why they put lights in the carriage. When these scuffs occur, maximum platen, max vacuum, roll back tension and even a max thickness do not fix the issue. Our D1 tech visited last week told me "I hate that machine. Why did they put the head so damn close?" Sample attached.
We have had few problems with 24" rolls or sheets which feed beautifully. The 44" rolls are when the anxiety really begins.
We installed our 9570 around the same time as Rand. Yes indeed it has been a ride. Epson learned from us (users). I called our techs here to ask a question about EMI and was promptly told that Epson doesn't support third part software. The tech was then educated by us as to what the "E" stood for. So, forums like this have been a god-send.
Mick
Dang, Mick. What are ride. I hope someone at Epson has, at least once, apologized. Unfortunate that you and many others pay the piper for Epson’s errors.
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I recently received my 9570 to replace my 9900 that bit the dust after very reliable service for 9 years. Sorry I did not see this thread before I made the purchase. I have had some issues loading up a 36" roll of Canson Prestige 340, but the Epson Media Installer and its interaction with the Photoshop print driver and any settings in the printer itself are, for me so far, an indecipherable disaster. I just started a new topic here about it. I have used Epson Wide Format printers for over 20 years. A 10000, a 9600, a 9800, and then a 9900. Through each iteration, the printer driver in Photoshop basically worked the same. Everything was set in the print driver in Photoshop, and anything set in the printer itself (eg, the paper type) was ignored. Now, Epson releases the 9570/7570/900/700 printers and introduces a whole new workflow for making color management and other settings for prints....with ZERO documentation about how the Epson Media Installer works and interacts with the PS driver and the printer itself. As others here have noted, if you print with Epson Premium Luster, no problem. Printing with third party fine art papers, just a confusing mess.
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I never thought I’d feel sorry for D1 but I do now.
I don't feel one bit sorry for D1. I feel sorry for their techs who are under paid and over worked. D1 takes full advantage at least that's how they apparently operate here in Canada.
The deal is, a “ production printer” which is what the 9570 is marketed as,
The printer was sold to us as a "fine art printer with wide colour gamut and production speed capability." When it works properly, it is both. The lights allow us to see the scuffing as it happens thus at least reducing the loss. Thank goodness for small mercies. It is certainly NOT absurd.
Mick
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:- )
If it’s a high-end production printer , one which requires you to stand by it, look into a little window to see if your paper is scraping all day long, I don’t see much fun in that. With their previous model, the 9000, you can send 50 good sized prints to it and go to bed. Not with the new one apparently.
quote author=Mick Sang link=topic=139474.msg1236349#msg1236349 date=1645232158]
I don't feel one bit sorry for D1. I feel sorry for their techs who are under paid and over worked. D1 takes full advantage at least that's how they apparently operate here in Canada.
The printer was sold to us as a "fine art printer with wide colour gamut and production speed capability." When it works properly, it is both. The lights allow us to see the scuffing as it happens thus at least reducing the loss. Thank goodness for small mercies. It is certainly NOT absurd.
Mick
[/quote]
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Now, Epson releases the 9570/7570/900/700 printers and introduces a whole new workflow for making color management and other settings for prints....with ZERO documentation about how the Epson Media Installer works and interacts with the PS driver and the printer itself.
Yes, this was a big frustration to us in the beginning. We've had our 9570 for a couple of years now. But, in the beginning we were just as confused and angry as you and there was ABSOLUTELY NO assistance from Epson whatsoever. In fact we all ended up teaching them from our experience. You're right, everything used to be in the driver and some of that has now been put on the printer itself. So now instead of selecting media in the driver, we select "Use Printer Settings" in the driver which refers that whole section of the settings to the printer itself where the media had been registered via EMI. Then we select the correct paper from the appropriate list upon loading in the printer.
Initially, we had set up a few custom media and installed (registered) those to the printer. At the end of the day these are simply records or shortcuts which allow us to save custom presets on the printer instead of in the driver. Otherwise all else is the same. We don't load EMI every time we want to make a change to a media setting, though. For example if we're running a sheet of Arches Aquarelle, while we may have set this media up based upon rolls using EMI to have a platen gap of 2.4 (to at least try to avoid the bloody scuffs), since the sheet works fine with a platen of 1.9 we load the paper with the Aquarelle media selected and make the change to the platen (to 1.9) via the control panel. The only thing with that is that we need to check it the next time we run the roll of Aquarelle so that we can change it back to 2.4. This would not be necessary except for the fact of the scuffing. But, if we were running a media which doesn't or at least shouldn't scuff, we would simply load it with the correct media setting as set up via EMI selected on the control panel and use ""Use Printer Settings" in the driver.
So, in short, with EMI we set up as many media and parameters as we can while making tweaks on the fly as it were. If we run Epson Media (Hot Press Natural etc.) we select that paper in the control panel. Platen, thickness, feed, drying etc. should be correct as we checked them when the machine was installed. I don't find any of this faster or slower. It's just different and allows us to see our own profiles in EMI versus the Epson profile for the base media. But, to be sure, our ICC profiles reside where they always did. Nothing has been moved. Colour management is the same as it was. There is now a record which reflects the fact that the particular media is associated with a specific profile. It's just a record.
If you prefer not to use "Use Printer Settings", the media which you set up in EMI and which you registered to the printer with the name you gave it should appear in the driver under the appropriate media drop down.
In short, the machine SEEMs a whole lot different because of EMI. But, while certain media features have been shuffled it's really not that different. "Old habits die hard," as they say.
Mick
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If it’s a high-end production printer , one which requires you to stand by it, look into a little window to see if your paper is scraping all day long, I don’t see much fun in that.
Oh, you've got that RIGHT ON, sir. No fun at all and a shite-load of waste to boot.
Mick
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Yes, this was a big frustration to us in the beginning. We've had our 9570 for a couple of years now. But, in the beginning we were just as confused and angry as you and there was ABSOLUTELY NO assistance from Epson whatsoever. In fact we all ended up teaching them from our experience. You're right, everything used to be in the driver and some of that has now been put on the printer itself. So now instead of selecting media in the driver, we select "Use Printer Settings" in the driver which refers that whole section of the settings to the printer itself where the media had been registered via EMI. Then we select the correct paper from the appropriate list upon loading in the printer.
Initially, we had set up a few custom media and installed (registered) those to the printer. At the end of the day these are simply records or shortcuts which allow us to save custom presets on the printer instead of in the driver. Otherwise all else is the same. We don't load EMI every time we want to make a change to a media setting, though. For example if we're running a sheet of Arches Aquarelle, while we may have set this media up based upon rolls using EMI to have a platen gap of 2.4 (to at least try to avoid the bloody scuffs), since the sheet works fine with a platen of 1.9 we load the paper with the Aquarelle media selected and make the change to the platen (to 1.9) via the control panel. The only thing with that is that we need to check it the next time we run the roll of Aquarelle so that we can change it back to 2.4. This would not be necessary except for the fact of the scuffing. But, if we were running a media which doesn't or at least shouldn't scuff, we would simply load it with the correct media setting as set up via EMI selected on the control panel and use ""Use Printer Settings" in the driver.
So, in short, with EMI we set up as many media and parameters as we can while making tweaks on the fly as it were. If we run Epson Media (Hot Press Natural etc.) we select that paper in the control panel. Platen, thickness, feed, drying etc. should be correct as we checked them when the machine was installed. I don't find any of this faster or slower. It's just different and allows us to see our own profiles in EMI versus the Epson profile for the base media. But, to be sure, our ICC profiles reside where they always did. Nothing has been moved. Colour management is the same as it was. There is now a record which reflects the fact that the particular media is associated with a specific profile. It's just a record.
If you prefer not to use "Use Printer Settings", the media which you set up in EMI and which you registered to the printer with the name you gave it should appear in the driver under the appropriate media drop down.
In short, the machine SEEMs a whole lot different because of EMI. But, while certain media features have been shuffled it's really not that different. "Old habits die hard," as they say.
Mick
Mick,
Why not make a 2nd custom media for the Aquarelle with the name “Aquarelle Roll” and rename the original one “Aquarelle Sheets”?
Rand
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And, I’ve learned how to mitigate the head dragging through the fresh ink on heavily inked areas of an image. It works “most of the time.” So, “work arounds galore” and I have a pretty dependable printer that makes stunning prints.
I’ve learned to re-price my services to compensate for the wastage of paper using rolls that need leading edge “extra margin”
Couple of questions Rand:
1) How do you mitigate the head dragging through fresh ink? Does it happen with certain papers more than others? How much of a problem is this on the 7570 with papers like H. Photo Rag Baryta and Canson Platine Fiber Rag?
2) What are "rolls that need leading edge extra margin"?
Thanks.
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Couple of questions Rand:
1) How do you mitigate the head dragging through fresh ink? Does it happen with certain papers more than others? How much of a problem is this on the 7570 with papers like H. Photo Rag Baryta and Canson Platine Fiber Rag?
2) What are "rolls that need leading edge extra margin"?
Thanks.
John,
First, I “think” Epson has made this a little less likely w/ firmware updates. I don’t worry as much as I used to, but it still bites once in a while.
Typically:
1. On images that are low key or/and have significantly dark areas in the image.
2. I use the Enhance Black Overcoat feature, often in combination w/ #1 above.
3. It tends to be in the center of the width of the roll more often than at either edge. Which makes me think “paper swelling” may be at least part of the problem - though I’ve experienced it w/ zero “apparent” paper deformation. I think the head on the 7570, even w/ the platen gap set max, is VERY close to the surface of the paper and there’s not much wiggle room there.
In order of application / effectiveness, I mitigate by:
1. Lowering “Color Density” (ink load) by 8 to 10%. This seems to be the limit w/o lowering print quality.
2. Increase suction.
3. Maximize the platen gap as a last resort.
I’ve experienced it on Canson Platine, Epson Legacy Platine, any of the original Barytas like Epson and Ilford (and now on Simply Elegant Gold Fibre). It seems like it is more likely to happen in the first 1/3 of the image from the leading edge.
I’ve not yet experienced it on any of the matte papers I prefer - but that may be because I don’t tend to print low key, dark / mysterious images on matte papers.
As to extra leading edge, I typically do that on the first image on the session after having loaded the roll. Some papers cannot seem to be held “flat enough” in the first few inches (from the printer’s normal starting position) to avoid paper edge head strikes / scuffs. Epson Legacy Platine and Canson Platine Fibre Rag seem especially prone to this for some reason. I’ve taken to using Ilford Gold Fibre Gloss as my go-to “platine like” paper - it lays/stays very flat in both cut sheets and rolls.
Rand
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Rand, Canson’s recommended settings for the Platine Fiber Rag and the Canson Prestige with the 7570/9570 printers say to reduce Color Density by -15. Interestingly, Hahnemuhle’s recommended media settings on its website for the 7570/9570 do not contain any special adjustments for any of its Fine Art papers, even though some of their papers are likely identical to the two Canson papers.
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Rand, Canson’s recommended settings for the Platine Fiber Rag and the Canson Prestige with the 7570/9570 printers say to reduce Color Density by -15. Interestingly, Hahnemuhle’s recommended media settings on its website for the 7570/9570 do not contain any special adjustments for any of its Fine Art papers, even though some of their papers are likely identical to the two Canson papers.
Yup…. it’s a confused bag out there for sure. And, one of the things that may not be accounted for are “possible” (perhaps even probable) changes to ink density defaults for various papers though the manifold (and completely undocumented for users) firmware / driver / EMI updates issued “after” the ICC profiling efforts of 3rd party paper manufacturers! If this is the case, are the instructions for use of their profiles still accurate / best practice? Who can know w/o their own testing. One manufacturer, who will remain nameless, even has as a parameter that “Enhance Black Overcoat” should be used all the time with their ICC profile. Say what? LOL
Rand
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Yup…. it’s a confused bag out there for sure. And, one of the things that may not be accounted for are “possible” (perhaps even probable) changes to ink density defaults for various papers though the manifold (and completely undocumented for users) firmware / driver / EMI updates issued “after” the ICC profiling efforts of 3rd party paper manufacturers! If this is the case, are the instructions for use of their profiles still accurate / best practice? Who can know w/o their own testing. One manufacturer, who will remain nameless, even has as a parameter that “Enhance Black Overcoat” should be used all the time with their ICC profile. Say what? LOL
Rand
I have been running some tests with certain Hahnemuhle fine art papers on the 9570, and I used the EMY files from Hahnemuhle to import H's profiles/settings into the EMI. I just assumed H was providing a simplified way to transfer the paper type and ICC profile info into the EMI. However, when I ran a test print with Hahnemuhle Baryta FB, I was struck by how long the print took to complete, and I had no idea why. So, I checked the settings in the printer, and sure enough the Dry Time setting was set at 3 seconds. Each time the print head went across the page, it stopped for 3 seconds before resuming. With a 30"x40" print., that would really extend the printing time!
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Throwing in my two cents here for what it's worth. Some context:
I manage the lab at a fine art photography school and have had a lot of epson printers come through my doors. Stylus-Pro 4800s, 4880s, 4900s, 7900s, 7800, Sure Color P 6000s, P5000 and one Canon iPF8300 to name just a few. In a teaching environment you really need a hardy printer. It takes a beating in our classes as many students of all skill levels are using it every day. I was stoked to see that Epson FINALLY came out with a printer that does not need to switch between the black ink sets - this eliminates a massive hurdle when trying to teach.
So far my experience with the Sure ColorP P9570 44":
TL,DR: Bad experience with the P9570 so far. It has lots of issues I never had before, and thats saying a lot with Epson! Still in-warranty and so far the print head and pump cap assy have been replaced.
So far it has not been a great experience. We bought the printer in 2021 and I have had D1 techs come out for visits 3 times so far. The printer is annoying in the sense that small changes were made for no apparent reason. ex: inks are now different names, driver interface is changed, some controls are hardware-based only now, glitchy menu loops that trap you in circles... and so on. My main points of contention are what a lot of people have been talking about: the printhead is extremely prone to head striking, which in turn causes clogs nozzles which will then force you to clean more often, which we all know wastes ink. Additionally, I had an issue about 6 months in where I'd be needing to run cleanings pretty much every single day. The nozzle checks showed breaks in random spots and would jump around cleaning after cleaning. I began to feel like I was chasing the broken pattern around - seriously! 10-15 cleanings and I still couldn't get a completely clear nozzle check. Seeing as cleanings take around 5-10 minutes each, I would spend huge chunks of my day doing this. The D1 tech in my area has been extremely helpful during the whole process but has also told me that he's seeing a lot of problems so far with the P9570's. Mostly having to do with the printheads getting damaged due to head striking.
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Unfortunately, as a previous Epson owner your problems sound all too familiar.
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I have been running some tests with certain Hahnemuhle fine art papers on the 9570, and I used the EMY files from Hahnemuhle to import H's profiles/settings into the EMI. I just assumed H was providing a simplified way to transfer the paper type and ICC profile info into the EMI. However, when I ran a test print with Hahnemuhle Baryta FB, I was struck by how long the print took to complete, and I had no idea why. So, I checked the settings in the printer, and sure enough the Dry Time setting was set at 3 seconds. Each time the print head went across the page, it stopped for 3 seconds before resuming. With a 30"x40" print., that would really extend the printing time!
Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you. I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread. I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper.
Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing?
Victor B.
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Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you. I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread. I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper.
Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing?
Victor B.
Hi Victor, I’m not Howard, but “right now” I’d not recommend the 9570. When it prints “right” it is beautiful. But it is too unpredictable at the moment. I can say that many of the initial issues have been eliminated or improved through firmware, driver, EMI updates over the last 2 years. 9 firmware updates (of course we have no clue as to what any of them did since Epson doesn’t say) that I’ve tracked so far. But some of the issues seem “mechanical” in nature and I’m not sure any of us are convinced (at the moment) that they can be fixed via firmware, etc.
Rand
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Hello Rand..... much appreciate your post. I have followed your experiences with the 9570 and am in the situation where I have to do something as my beloved ipf8400 is acting up. I print mostly 46 to 48 inches LS but mostly for myself so light duty for the printer. I could easily opt for a p9000 which is also high on my list. This is a printer just for me and my stuff but I am picky and I have been printing for a long time and have thrown away Epson printers. I would do it a little differently this time by never being without a service contract. So, maybe the P9000 should be really high on my short list as I will never have to bother with switching black inks as I never print matt. My real connection with the P9570 is that its ppi is 300 vs. 360. I've become very used to 300ppi resolution with my Canon printer and always print at 600ppi. Maybe all of the other minuses 'WAY' overlook that one plus for me but I thought that my limited paper selection would make the printer more friendly. However I would easily opt for a P9000......
Much appreciate your input.
Victor B.
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Hello Howard..... long time since I've talked to you. I'm actually considering purchasing a 9570 even after reading this shocking thread. I am only interested in printing on a couple of papers ( Epson Exhibition Canvas Gloss ) the primary paper.
Given what your experiences are can you recommend purchasing?
Victor B.
Hi, Victor. Good to hear from you. Here is some feedback.
I have been working with my 9570 for a couple of months now after my 9900 finally bit the dust. Much of the time has been spent testing. The reason for all of the testing is that, as you can tell from some of the threads here and elsewhere, the 7570/9570 printers have been plagued by a series of significant issues from the start. I have owned three large format Epson printers over the last 20 year+ years...a 10000, a 9800, and a 9900. Aside from the repeated clogging issues, these printers worked and printed beautifully. I used a wide variety of Epson and Canson papers and never had to fiddle with the myriad of printer settings that could be adjusted in the printer driver. I just had to be sure to select the right ICC profile and Media Type in the driver in Photoshop print driver. On the first roll of paper that I loaded in 9570, the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta Satin, I immediately started running into problems with head strikes, which lead to ink smears and paper scuffing/dings. In addition, shortly after I started to print from the roll, the printer expelled a bunch of paper under the cover. vWhen I opened the cover and tried to rewind the excess paper onto the roll, it wouldn't work. I quickly figured out that the end of the paper had detached from the cardboard core. So, I had to remove the roll and retape the end of the paper to the core.
The head strike issues are definitely an issue with heavier weight fine art photo papers, but apparently not with lighter weight photo papers like Epson Premium Luster. There are a number of different printer settings that can be adjusted to deal with the head strike issues. Paper thickness, platen gap, drying time, suction, roll tension. Depending upon the specific paper characteristics, it appears SO FAR to be possible to adjust these settings to resolve the head strikes. I think I have finally dialed them in with the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta Satin. I generally standardize on 1 or 2 papers to use with photo black ink, and the same with matte black ink, so the experimenting with the printer settings is much less of an issue for me than for a production house that is using a large variety of papers. However, the issue with the roll paper detaching from the core may still be an issue. Epson is well aware of the issue, but has never acknowledged it and has no solution for it. There are a couple of workarounds that I am trying, but no answer yet.
Now that I know what I know, would I recommend buying a 7570 or 9570? As of today, unlikely, because I am not sure if I have resolved the key issues. The Epson 9000 is an easier choice. I think the print quality with the 9570 is marginally better and there is no ink switching between photo black and matte black ink, but if you only use photo black ink, that's not an issue. I have never printed on canvas paper, so I have no idea if there are head strike issues with them on the 9570.
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Thank you Howard for the reply. It seems that you are in the majority as not recommending this printer for a variety of reasons. For sure I am going to take a pass and if I need to make a purchase it will be the 9000. I am lucky to have been able to reconcile the issues with my 8400 so for now I can sit this out to see if Epson can make the 9500 series a viable purchase.
I'm still at somewhat of disbelief as to the numerous problems associated with the 9500 series and am thankful that I was not an early or any purchaser. It's not just the money but more the extreme hassle of getting everything to work - even if at a subpar level.
Wish you the best and thanks for the advice.....
Regards,
Victor B.
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I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. It looks like the 9570 is going to end up being a long drawn out painful saga. Without major hardware revisions I don’t see how they fix the problems.
You should hold onto the 8400 as long as possible. I wish I had one right now! I miss my 8300 so much in so many ways . It was more than rock solid and so frugal with ink. If Canon had been smart they would have just kept producing the 8400 or just make very minor upgrades.
My feeling is, nothing recent from any of these three companies is worth buying, and that’s kind of unbelievable.
John
Thank you Howard for the reply. It seems that you are in the majority as not recommending this printer for a variety of reasons. For sure I am going to take a pass and if I need to make a purchase it will be the 9000. I am lucky to have been able to reconcile the issues with my 8400 so for now I can sit this out to see if Epson can make the 9500 series a viable purchase.
I'm still at somewhat of disbelief as to the numerous problems associated with the 9500 series and am thankful that I was not an early or any purchaser. It's not just the money but more the extreme hassle of getting everything to work - even if at a subpar level.
Wish you the best and thanks for the advice.....
Regards,
Victor B.
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I’m pretty much in the same situation as you. It looks like the 9570 is going to end up being a long drawn out painful saga. Without major hardware revisions I don’t see how they fix the problems.
You should hold onto the 8400 as long as possible. I wish I had one right now! I miss my 8300 so much in so many ways . It was more than rock solid and so frugal with ink. If Canon had been smart they would have just kept producing the 8400 or just make very minor upgrades.
My feeling is, nothing recent from any of these three companies is worth buying, and that’s kind of unbelievable.
John
Good insight. I have a 6400 and 8300 and if they ever have any problems (none so far thankfully) I'm just going to get them repaired instead of replaced.
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If you can. Canon told me with the 8300 I couldn’t get parts for many things. I had an electronic error and they were wanting to replace a main board for that but boards were no longer available. There was only one outfit in California that had one to sell me for $700.00. I installed it myself since it wasn’t difficult but it still didn’t work. So that was the end of the line for me. After that I found out a guy in town was a retired tech that could have worked on it but I didn’t know about him. But for this printer he might not have been able to get parts either.
You can look up the availability of 8300/8400 inks and heads as well. There is an end date and if it’s not here yet it will be very soon. Actually I don’t know if they keep them in stock anywhere. Haven’t checked lately.
Good insight. I have a 6400 and 8300 and if they ever have any problems (none so far thankfully) I'm just going to get them repaired instead of replaced.
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So, who/where is the retired tech that maybe can work on the 8300?
I need help to try to revive mine!
(printer is in San Francisco.)
Thanks!!
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If my 8400 develops any issue I can't fix with a head replacement then I will purchase another printer. It's just too old to put any major money into. At that point more than likely a 9000.
Victor B.
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My dream is that Canon will completely change the inkset on the 4100 . The mechanics of the printer are really good. It is possible that Epson will figure out a way to use thicker fiber media with the 9570 with high-speed off by this fall, which is as long as I can wait.
If my 8400 develops any issue I can't fix with a head replacement then I will purchase another printer. It's just too old to put any major money into. At that point more than likely a 9000.
Victor B.
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Hi Victor, I’m not Howard, but “right now” I’d not recommend the 9570. When it prints “right” it is beautiful. But it is too unpredictable at the moment. I can say that many of the initial issues have been eliminated or improved through firmware, driver, EMI updates over the last 2 years. 9 firmware updates (of course we have no clue as to what any of them did since Epson doesn’t say) that I’ve tracked so far. But some of the issues seem “mechanical” in nature and I’m not sure any of us are convinced (at the moment) that they can be fixed via firmware, etc.
Rand
Epson did say something about firmware updates. You can read it on Epson Japan website.
https://www.epson.jp/dl_soft/readme/34858.htm
But it is hard to connect the real issue in printing and the release note.