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Author Topic: Afghanistan  (Read 12847 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2021, 07:39:52 pm »

Oh, gee.. a card-carrying Trump hater and a disgruntled former employee has spoken! Stop the presses!

TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2021, 08:01:50 pm »

Cue the personal attacks on Olivia Troye and dismissal of anything that she says.

* Some things are so predictable, you don't need Carnac the Magnificent to divine what the future holds.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 12:17:15 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2021, 07:36:58 am »

Gee, according to you, I am just one post away from becoming an ISIS lieutenant  ;D

Not at all. ISIS has a very narrow and rigid religious and political ideology which gives them a false sense of clarity and certainty. Yours seems limited to politics only.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2021, 08:22:37 am »

...

Peter McLennan

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2021, 09:44:14 am »

Photoshop skills:         5
Screen capture skills: 10
Credibility:                  0

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PeterAit

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2021, 11:10:38 am »

...

Yet another pitiful lie. There were no troops present when the Trump mob stormed the capital, just an inadequate number of police. And the mob was not just attacking the individual members of congress, they were attacking the seat of our democracy.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2021, 11:30:21 am »

Yet another pitiful lie. There were no troops present when the Trump mob stormed the capital, just an inadequate number of police. And the mob was not just attacking the individual members of congress, they were attacking the seat of our democracy.

 ;D ;D ;D

You better check your reading comprehension and the ability to process the news before accusing me of lying.

Nobody said the troops were there on 1/6. However, the troops were there throughout the rest of January.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2021, 01:52:31 pm »

…

Alan Klein

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2021, 02:19:38 pm »

These are weapons that it will make it easier for them to take out the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban forces.

LesPalenik

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2021, 02:39:11 pm »

anybody can calculate the total value of all those weapons?


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Manoli

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2021, 07:11:22 pm »

anybody can calculate the total value of all those weapons?

• It’s $85 billion worth of American equipment
• 75,000 vehicles
• over 200 airplanes and helicopters
• over 600,000 small arms and light weapons
• more Black Hawk helicopters than 85% of the countries in the world
• Night vision goggles, body armour and
• biometric devices ..,
… that have the fingerprints, eye scans and the biographical information of the Afghans interpreters and support personnel trained by the coalition who fought with and alongside us over the past 20 years odd years

Names gifted to them.
How many will survive ?

https://twitter.com/johnnymerceruk/status/1430963234845118469?s=21
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 07:15:53 pm by Manoli »
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TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2021, 08:54:43 pm »

Yeah, internet memes are a great source of information... until you try to find the source data. This latest meme says that the source is the GAO (General Accounting Office), but as is the usual case for internet memes no link was provided to that supposed GAO report of U.S. military equipment now in the hands of the Taliban. The "Taliban's new arsenal" as the meme headline calls it.

The key to internet memes is that you're not supposed to try and verify the information. You're supposed to swallow the bait whole and not ask questions. They are meant for eager and gullible ideologues to share thru viral social media posts or perhaps other internet gathering places (like this forum) or an email blast to all of your friends. I'm not that sort of gullible fish.

I started searching for some verification of that from the GAO website. I tried keyword searching "Afghanistan"—no recent report on weapons left in Afghanistan there. I tried reports and testimony chronologically or narrowed from a month ago until now—still nothing.

So where is this GAO data and report for U.S. weapons which are now the "Taliban's new arsenal"? They are numbers lifted from a report that's a year old. (Carnac the Magnificent at work again predicting the future.) They are numbers from an August 10, 2017 report to the House Committee on Armed Services which summarizes all DOD procurements authorized by Congress from 2002 thru the end of Fiscal Year 2017 for Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF). It covers about 15 years worth of procurement allocations.

An important note is that these numbers are only in regard to procurement allocations—not actual delivery; not how many are still in use; not how many have been destroyed or relocated; etc. More directly to the point, it is not a report on equipment that was left behind or captured by the Taliban. How could it? It's a year old report. To quote from the report...

"We report key equipment data based on the fiscal years when DOD authorized the equipment for procurement or transfer. We did not assess the extent to which key equipment has been distributed to the ANDSF or is in use. As we have previously reported, it can take several years between the date DOD authorizes equipment for procurement and the date when the equipment is delivered to Afghanistan, and a number of additional months may pass before the ANDSF is ready to use the equipment. For example, DOD authorized the procurement of 20 light attack airplanes in fiscal year 2012 and, according to DOD documentation, the first of those aircraft were delivered to Afghanistan in 2016. As of March 2017, about 5 years after DOD authorized the procurement of the airplanes, DOD reported that the Afghan Air Force was using 12 of the airplanes in operations and that another 7 were being used for training at Moody Air Force Base in the United States."

So... some unknown person saw this public report from a year ago. They lifted the numbers from it and added some graphics. They added a headline of the "Taliban's new arsenal". Then let it loose to float around the internet for some gullible fools to post and repost wherever they could find more fish to take the bait.

There's no doubt that the Taliban has captured equipment supplied by the U.S. to the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces. How much of the equipment procured over 15 years was still in active service; was worn out and retired; or destroyed in combat; or intentionally destroyed to avoid capture; or relocated; who knows? If any one has an accounting as to what the "Taliban's new arsenal" consists of, I haven't seen it. A phony internet meme that purports to be an accounting is not what I would choose as a reliable source. Then again, I'm not some eager and gullible zealot looking to score political points.

I wouldn't expect you to just take my word and leave you without a link. You're not that gullible. You can find the entire report that I referenced here.
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chez

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2021, 09:21:16 pm »

How timely and appropriate!

Yes, let’s compare two past non-events with two real explosions that just killed 200 people, 13 Americans among them.

I find it totally ironic ( boarding on really sad ) that you care about the people killed in the explosion...but mock the efforts of much of the rest of the world that fights the invisible enemy called Covid. It's taking down over 1,000 people in the US alone each and every day...yet you've consistently mocked wearing masks and other measures to try control the spread of the virus.
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TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2021, 10:25:52 pm »

• It’s $85 billion worth of American equipment...

No. It's not. Try an estimate of $28 billion in total procurement over 15 years from 2002-2017. That $28 billion is the estimated total over many years, what's left for the Taliban is anybody's guess to make.

What's your source?

• over 200 airplanes and helicopters
• more Black Hawk helicopters than 85% of the countries in the world

Another official said that while there are no definitive numbers yet, the current intelligence assessment was that the Taliban are believed to control more than 2,000 armored vehicles, including U.S. Humvees, and up to 40 aircraft potentially including UH-60 Black Hawks, scout attack helicopters, and ScanEagle military drones.

Between 2002 and 2017, the United States gave the Afghan military an estimated $28 billion in weaponry, including guns, rockets, night-vision goggles and even small drones for intelligence gathering.

But aircraft like the Blackhawk helicopters have been the most visible sign of U.S. military assistance, and were supposed to be the Afghan military' biggest advantage over the Taliban.

Between 2003 and 2016 the United States provided Afghan forces with 208 aircraft, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO).

In the last week, many of those aircraft were most useful for Afghan pilots to escape the Taliban.

One of the U.S. officials said that between 40 and 50 aircraft had been flown to Uzbekistan by Afghan pilots seeking refuge. Even before taking power in Kabul over the weekend, the Taliban had started a campaign of assassinating pilots.

Some planes were in the United States for maintenance and will stay. Those en route to Afghan forces will instead be used by the U.S. military to help in the evacuation from Kabul.

Current and former officials say that while they are concerned about the Taliban having access to the helicopters, the aircraft require frequent maintenance and many are complicated to fly without extensive training.


Again, what's your source for these claims that you're making? Outside of the Taliban and their supporters, you won't find many people enthusiastic about them having any weapons. But, that's no reason to make gross exaggerations or false assumptions. What's the point of that?

Right now, the focus is getting people out. After that, targets the size of helicopters and aircraft, which require regular maintenance and fuel in order to fly, shouldn't be too difficult for U.S. satellite and drone surveillance to identify and take out with missiles launched from drones or other forms of airstrike. Also, unless you have pilots to fly them, they aren't of much military value.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 10:38:11 pm by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2021, 12:43:24 am »

The Taliban could sell them to our advetsaries China, Russia, Iran and others.

TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2021, 01:00:23 am »

Aircraft and helicopters are complicated machines that require specially trained mechanics, technicians, and parts for regular maintenance in addition to trained pilots. These aren't Chevy pickups for which you can buy parts from the local Autozone or O'Reilly Auto Parts and you don't learn to fly them by driving them to the market.

China and Russia don't need them and they already know any technology in the aircraft and helicopters with which the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces were supplied.
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Manoli

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2021, 01:34:03 am »

No. It's not. Try an estimate of $28 billion in total procurement over 15 years from 2002-2017. That $28 billion is the estimated total over many years, what's left for the Taliban is anybody's guess to make.

What's your source?

Again, what's your source for these claims that you're making? Outside of the Taliban and their supporters, you won't find many people enthusiastic about them having any weapons. But, that's no reason to make gross exaggerations or false assumptions. What's the point of that?

The source is very clearly linked to at the bottom of my post.
I’ve made no ‘claims’ simply restated, in writing, the claims made in the clip of the US military person, primarily for clarity.

I agree with your above post regarding ‘wild’ internet memes and unfounded claims. Johnny Mercer is UK ex-miltary, ex-Afghanistan vet, ex-Minister of Defence. He is also a current Member of Parliament and though I still wouldn’t necessarily take his word for US military finances, I would and do believe that he wouldn’t post a fabricated video clip.

The clip is no more authoritative than the meme that started this discussion.
Reject or query the content by all means (I do) but a modicum of attention ‘to what I said, not what you think I said’  combined with a smattering of common sense would have saved you the need for such an extensive rebuttal.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 01:55:57 am by Manoli »
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TechTalk

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2021, 02:05:55 am »

I watched the 90-second video clip on Twitter that you linked in your reply to "anybody can calculate the total value of all those weapons?". It was an unnamed person reading a list from an unnamed source in front of some politicians looking to score some points and hopefully engender some outrage for their political benefit. At least that's the appearance it had for me.

I don't mind going to a modicum of effort to provide accurate information from reliable sources. I provided a link to a well balanced Reuters story in which they clearly state "there are no definitive numbers yet" and note that the $28 billion figure is "estimated". A reliable news source without hyperbole or sensationalism. I also used Google to check the $28 billion estimate from Reuters, before I posted a reply, and found the same number cited by news sources right, left, and center around the world.

Like I said before—and to which one poster replied with a description of a "flood of bloviated, pseudo intellectual, simingly [sic] eloquent" “Too early to judge” "blah, blah, blah"...

Given that it is an ongoing situation which hasn't fully played out, I'm not eager to jump to conclusions or give knee-jerk reactions. I generally prefer to wait until the dust has begun to settle and rumors, conjecture, and social media "facts" can be separated from what is actually knowable before forming some initial thoughts on a matter.

If I gave any offense in my reply, I apologize to you.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2021, 02:14:23 am »

The Taliban could sell them to our advetsaries China, Russia, Iran and others.

or to Sandy Munro.
His company, Munro & Associates specialises in tearing down automotive and aviation products to study and suggest improvements and innovations.
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Manoli

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Re: Afghanistan
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2021, 02:16:39 am »

If I gave any offense in my reply, I apologize to you.

No offence taken, but thank you for the courtesy of your apology. In retrospect I should have been clearer as to the nature of the exaggerated claims.
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