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Author Topic: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing  (Read 4282 times)

TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2021, 12:23:24 pm »

The FUD=“except perhaps.”  "temporary workaround“ what's the issue?

I don't wish to appear overly sensitive, but I take offense at being accused of spreading FUD—especially, by someone I respect. I do try (but sometimes fail) to choose my words carefully. I also try to be selective in the use of bold type, as I find it too often overused.

My statement of finding the current status not "all that reassuring", which you have quoted, was related only partially to the fact that other makers of similar hardware calibration software have fully functional software now without workarounds and some of my other comments which you also quoted. Primarily, my lack of reassurance stems from the statement which I selectively chose to put in bold and which you have not yet quoted—that is NEC's statement "until Apple fixes the issues". I put that in bold and it is my primary issue with the NEC statement because... man have I been down that road before with software vendors. And, it has happened to me at times when it actually mattered, only to be told that it's Apple's problem to fix. I didn't find that very helpful or any assurance that an issue would be resolved in a convenient time frame or before the finger pointing stopped. I then had to find an alternative solution to get work accomplished.

FUD=Did the OP say he's got an M1? Nope.

No. He said "Apple and Eizo have conspired to make it impossible move to Catalina or Big Sur." This due to the fact that he's stuck at ColorNavigator 6 because Eizo hasn't made ColorNavigator 7 backward compatible to his older display. For which I expressed empathy, because it's happened to me repeatedly over the years with a variety of hardware and software. The suggestion which I made to him for his Eizo compatibility issue is exactly the same suggestion which I made for NEC owners who may be looking at SpectraView II software issues. My suggestion in both cases was: "Fortunately, basICColor does offer an alternative solution that works." It's true in both cases and is currently available as a solution to most owners of reasonably recent Eizo or NEC displays with Apple Mac compatibility issues. I also said to him: "Even if you're using the Eizo or NEC calibration software with your monitor, there may be advantages to incorporating basICColor display 6 alongside them."

I've tried to be balanced and factual regarding both brands; which is easy because, I've purchased and been quite satisfied with the value received from both brands. I made note of the lack of availability from B&H/Adorama and stated clearly; "However, NEC still shows this model in their current offerings." I pushed back on another poster's comment: "Unfortunately, according to my local supplier, NEC quits producing/selling high end graphic monitors." and I linked to the current models listed by NEC and stated they were current. I pointed out that not all Eizo monitors are as esoteric in price as the CG models and said "Both are excellent monitors. As always, people should buy what makes them happy—not someone else." Also, as I mentioned above, I suggested: "Even if you're using the Eizo or NEC calibration software with your monitor, there may be advantages to incorporating basICColor display 6 alongside them."

I'll continue to respect you for your knowledge. I'll even continue to like your acerbic wit. You're free to continue to accuse me of spreading FUD and I will continue to take offense at that. We will all continue to face challenges with products reaching End of Life status and no longer being supported as well as compatibility issues from every direction. Such is life.
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digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2021, 12:37:02 pm »

I apologize, I'm not trying give offense and respect your knowledge and posts too. You nearly always do select your words very carefully, but "except perhaps" isn't as refined as I've seen in the past. We both have no experience with M1 and SpectraView, at least that seems to be the case. If you do and said you did, I missed it and again apologize. If you don't, we should both hold on until we have some facts.
I'm working on getting direct feedback from the PM about the text we are both discussing. At this time, I don't see them stating the product doesn't work on M1. There are indeed caveats but you did state  "if I were intending to use SpectraView II software to calibrate my display with an M1 Mac, now or in the future" and again, boxing yourself into a future corner we know nothing about doesn't seem like your history of carefully selected language. Even Yogi pointed this out with humor.
Let's wait until we both have actual facts from either the SpectraView engineer OR at the very least, personal experience with this product (todays build) and M1. What the future holds isn't anything I'm qualified to predict.
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TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2021, 12:56:36 pm »

What the future holds isn't anything I'm qualified to predict.

Agreed. I hope that I made my intentions clear in being grateful for third parties like basICColor and others that offer solutions for compatibility and EOL (End of Life) issues that stem from other manufacturers products and sometimes offering other potential features and benefits. Many a scanner owner has found a new lease on life for their scanner from companies like VueScan or SilverFast. I'm one of them.

No harm done. Like I said, I like your acerbic wit—almost all of the time.
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Alan Klein

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2021, 03:36:17 pm »

B&H lists the PA271Q with spectraview as available and the PA271Q without spectraview as discontinued.
I wonder if you called B&H whether they would break out the monitor price by itself?  Just tell them you have  Spectraview and want to upgrade the monitor only.  They'd be foolish to want to throw away a sale.

digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2021, 03:41:01 pm »

I wonder if you called B&H whether they would break out the monitor price by itself?  Just tell them you have  Spectraview and want to upgrade the monitor only.  They'd be foolish to want to throw away a sale.
The bundle is (was) Display+Colorimeter+Software vs. just display. So unlikely.
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Alan Klein

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2021, 03:45:11 pm »

What if you needed two same displays?  You wouldn't need a second calibration puck and software.  In fact, wouldn't you want to use the same on both machines to assure similar calibrations even if you had two calibrations sets?

digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2021, 03:48:07 pm »

What if you needed two same displays?  You wouldn't need a second calibration puck and software.  In fact, wouldn't you want to use the same on both machines to assure similar calibrations even if you had two calibrations sets?
IF then you'd get one with and one without the bundle. But that's no longer an option right?
There are two differing SKUs.
Not even sure NEC/Sharp would allow what you propose.
Yes, you would want to use the same Colorimeter and software on both machines.
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TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2021, 08:50:40 pm »

I wonder if you called B&H whether they would break out the monitor price by itself?  Just tell them you have  Spectraview and want to upgrade the monitor only.

When I earlier posted that B&H listed the model as discontinued, I didn't go into detail, but I searched their site for the PA271Q in any configuration bundled or monitor only. They list it as discontinued either way. They currently do not offer the monitor in any configuration. The same is true for Adorama. If either had any listing whatever for the monitor which did not say discontinued or no longer available... I wouldn't have posted anything at all. I found it noteworthy only because, to the best of my knowledge, they are the two largest photo/video specialty online resellers by a good margin. Personally, I prefer to buy locally whenever possible. I bemoan the ongoing loss of stores where you can see products in person.

To be crystal clear, NEC lists both model variations as current. I made that clear (I believe) in my original post. My position is always, a product is current until the manufacturer officially declares it discontinued. If anyone is interested, Sharp/NEC can be contacted directly by phone or via contact form. They may be able to direct you to an authorized reseller or assist in locating products for you. I will continue to push back, as I have in more than one thread, against rumors regarding NEC and graphics monitors being discontinued. I detest rumors. [Gossip—The Devil's Radio. Don't be a broadcaster! — George Harrison]

As a side note, a little over a week ago, I suggested to someone looking for a wide-gamut monitor, to replace an old Dell, that they might consider a direct purchase from NEC of a refurbished PA series model. My last two NEC wide-gamut monitors were purchased direct from NEC as refurbished and I was quite happy with them—and delighted at the price. Unfortunately, the models that I suggested then are no longer currently listed in the refurbished section. I've purchased refurbished equipment directly from NEC, Apple, and Epson and enjoyed the savings along with a full new warranty in each instance.

I also have no hesitation in buying discontinued product. The last MacBook Pro I purchased new, at a healthy discount from Adorama, just after it was replaced by a new model. Best value I ever had in a Mac purchase. The new replacement offered little in the way of enhancement. I'm not cheap, but I do enjoy getting a good value for my money when I find what I want at a reduced price.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 08:59:14 pm by TechTalk »
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Czornyj

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2021, 09:25:06 am »

The FUD=“except perhaps.”  "temporary workaround“ what's the issue?
FUD=Did the OP say he's got an M1? Nope.
Does NEC SpectraView will not run under M1? Not that I see.
Anyway, I've contacted the PM/software engineer directly since it appears, perhaps 😀 neither one of us have any experience with M1 and this build now or in the future.
"Predictions are hard, especially about the future."- Yogi Berra

NEC SpectraView II works flawlessly on my Mac mini M1.

Frans Waterlander

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digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2021, 12:06:55 pm »

:o :o :o
Thanks for again confirming your inability to understand simple English.
So well stated here about your posts trolling:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1222178#msg1222178
You've got to love the behaviour of someone who about once a month walks into the room, takes a dump on the carpet and departs, never to be seen again until next month.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 07:39:43 pm by digitaldog »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2021, 11:04:50 pm »

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digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2021, 11:20:50 pm »

You're welcome!
Since you came in to post utterly off topic, again, I must ask to steer your poor focus: How's the monitor flicker “problem” that limits your ability to take a photo coming along?
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TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2021, 11:43:05 pm »

:o :o :o

As you have no desire to contribute to the topic Frans, your time would be better spent if you just jerked yourself a soda while adults are having a discussion.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2021, 11:48:57 pm »

Utterly off topic?
Digital Dog (or is it Digital God?) apologizes! Could it be that that's a first? I thought it significant enough to comment on it. Maybe this warrants a separate thread, as it is rather unique.
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TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2021, 12:05:04 am »

Digital Dog (or is it Digital God?) apologizes! Could it be that that's a first? I thought it significant enough to comment on it. Maybe this warrants a separate thread, as it is rather unique.

I can tell you for a fact that it is not a first and that it is how adults behave with each other. You're like a fly at a picnic in this discussion.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2021, 12:10:26 am »

How adults behave with each other?
Couldn't agree with you more, but Andrew is repeatedly extremely rude and insulting and he hasn't apologizes to me even once for such behavior.
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TechTalk

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2021, 12:15:26 am »

Couldn't agree with you more, but Andrew is repeatedly extremely rude and insulting and he hasn't apologizes to me even once for such behavior.

I've seen your previous posts and there is no reason for him to apologize to you. Now... could you please just buzz off and let us continue this topic without having to deal with your emotions.

*Edited for clarity.

** Please do not alter my quotes as you did above in changing a statement into a question. Quote me unedited or not at all.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 12:54:15 am by TechTalk »
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2021, 12:17:48 am »

I've seen your previous posts and there is no reason for him to do so.
I agree that there's no reason for his rude and insulting behavior.
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digitaldog

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Re: New Monitor for photo editing and print proofing
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2021, 01:51:13 am »

I agree that there's no reason for his rude and insulting behavior.
Once again Frans: all doubts removed.
Pull both feet out of mouth; attempt to begin hobby of photography.
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