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Author Topic: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?  (Read 581 times)

NAwlins_Contrarian

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Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« on: March 06, 2021, 12:26:05 am »

I the past I've calibrated and profiled my monitors to the white point that the X-Rite software recommends and defaults to, D65. I've been happy with the results. I realize others set D50 or D55 for their own particular needs and reasons. It was recently asserted to me (at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/64913767), "Allow the profiling software to use the monitor’s native white point (the “Native” selection, vs the specific Kelvin or CIE selections)." And indeed, the X-Rite software gives me that option (cropped screen capture attached).

So color management gurus of LuLa, please give me your thoughts: what are the pros and cons of choosing Native instead of D65 for the white point? I realize that at least theoretically I should probably get a slightly larger gamut with slightly smoother transitions; is the real-world benefit significant? What else?

Thanks!
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JRSmit

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2021, 02:14:50 am »

What is your objective wrt managing color?

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Fine art photography: janrsmit.com
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Jan R. Smit

digitaldog

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2021, 08:59:34 am »

Goals and the type of display and it's control over backlight; huge difference between say a Specrtaview and a laptop display.
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Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

Frans Waterlander

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2021, 12:19:48 pm »

I calibrate my monitor to get the best possible match between the image on the monitor and my prints viewed under my conditions, so I know to the best possible degree how my prints will turn out.
So there are a lot of variables: paper and inks used, digital darkroom lighting to view the prints and it's intensity, ambient light, etc.
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2021, 12:48:51 pm »

Sorry, to clarify:

(1) this is mainly for my Dell U2415 monitor, which is an IPS LCD monitor.

(2) An important goal is to have my prints match (to the extent practicable) the appearance of the photo on the monitor. Although I realize the viewing lighting matters, and my house is mostly lit with halogen (incandescent-type) lighting, print appearance under sunlight and fluorescent is also of interest to me. Of course, on-screen tonal smoothness and viewable gamut are also significant to me.

Thanks!
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digitaldog

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2021, 12:59:58 pm »

Sorry, to clarify:

(1) this is mainly for my Dell U2415 monitor, which is an IPS LCD monitor.

(2) An important goal is to have my prints match (to the extent practicable) the appearance of the photo on the monitor. Although I realize the viewing lighting matters, and my house is mostly lit with halogen (incandescent-type) lighting, print appearance under sunlight and fluorescent is also of interest to me. Of course, on-screen tonal smoothness and viewable gamut are also significant to me.

Thanks!
I saw that later, but I can't find spec's on this in terms of panel bit depth etc.
So the deal is this: some displays are only 6-8bits, not high bit. If you have such a display, AND you can live with potential banding due to this, AND you want a good screen to print match, then the number you pick (CCT or 'Standard illuminant'*) is the one that produces a match between display and print NEXT to the display. Otherwise, using a Native WP greatly reduces banding because you're simply profiling that behavior, not trying to adjust it. If I had such a display and I wasn't concerned with print matching (or "Native" was OK), I'd pick Native.
With a high bit panel (I'm using SpectraView), I can set any value until I get a match. With my viewing booth, that value is CCT 5150K; not 5100K, not 5200K etc. Again, the value itself is moot, it's trial and error to get that match.

** CCT is a range of colors. So one product may state CCT 5150K and produce another product with the same value may produce a different result. Many people, and even software products, use D65 and 6500K interchangeably as if they were identical. This is not the case. D65 is the exact color, it is not a range of colors, and the one object that actually produces this is 93 million miles away. The result of an average of color measurements all over the Earth averaged.  Some software products specify D65 and 6500K as choices for white point. When you see this, the 6500K option refers to the exact color of a theoretical blackbody at 6500 Kelvin.



Drilling deeper:
Why are my prints too dark (or don’t match my display)?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 01:03:49 pm by digitaldog »
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 01:35:33 pm »

I can't find spec's on this in terms of panel bit depth etc.

The U2415 is an 8-bit monitor. (The cheaper Asus MX259 I have at work seems to be 6+ bits, and occasionally I see banding.) So I don't have 10-bit, but this monitor is not stuck at 6 either. Given that matching prints is probably the most important issue, and the monitor is 8 bits, do you think I'm better off choosing D65 or native?

Thanks!
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digitaldog

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2021, 01:53:54 pm »

The U2415 is an 8-bit monitor. (The cheaper Asus MX259 I have at work seems to be 6+ bits, and occasionally I see banding.) So I don't have 10-bit, but this monitor is not stuck at 6 either. Given that matching prints is probably the most important issue, and the monitor is 8 bits, do you think I'm better off choosing D65 or native?

Thanks!
Try native; if it doesn't match, try something else until it matched the print next to display.
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Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Monitor calibration and profiling to native white point?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2021, 04:57:50 pm »

Try native; if it doesn't match, try something else until it matched the print next to display.

Thanks, I will try that.
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