Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[Robert Roaldi]

If you want to hear the facts about natural immunity vs vaccine immunity, how effective the vaccines are, and what we have learned in the last 2 years, rather than listen to people with a political agenda who keep repeating the same lies on the internet, a better use of your time is to listen to this nearly 3 hour podcast on the Making Sense podcast, in which Sam Harris interviews Nicholas Christakis. It is a very wide-ranging and nuanced discussion, with no simple answers.

Here is his bio from the landing: Nicholas A. Christakis, MD, PhD, MPH, is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University, where he directs the Human Nature Lab and is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science. He was elected to the National Academy of Medicine in 2006, the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 2010, and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2017.

He is the author of several books—Connected: The Amazing Power of Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives, Blueprint: The Evolutionary Origins of a Good Society, and most recently Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live.

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/270-what-have-we-learned-from-the-pandemic

A description of the contents of the podcast" In this episode, Sam Harris speaks with Nicholas Christakis about the lessons of the COVID pandemic. They discuss our failures to coordinate an effective response, the politics surrounding vaccination, vaccine efficacy, vaccine safety, how to think about scientific controversies, the epidemiology of excess deaths, transmission among the vaccinated, natural immunity, selection pressures and new variants, the failure of institutions, the lab-leak hypothesis, the efficacy of lockdowns, vaccine mandates, boosters, what would happen in a worse pandemic, and other topics.

This podcast is not behind the usual Making Sense paywall.

[Robert Roaldi]

This is the cure. 

Data from South Africa is showing that it is spreading faster amongst the vaccinated than the un-vaxxed.  Turns out, looks like natural immunity is better, so this will burn through the population (even recent triple vaxed are getting it), and hopefully large amounts of natural immunity will finally end it.

Utterly incorrect.

[Robert Roaldi]

...
Just to add, Omicold is 80% less deadly then Delta, which was less deadly then Alpha, and there is no spike in hospitalizations and deaths in countries that have already peaked, like South Africa.  This is going to be nothing but a case of the common cold, for nearly all, and what Covid is going to be now that it is endemic. 

But anyway, yes, you will most likely get it and spread it at this point.  It is 70 times more transmissible that Delta, which was 40 times more then Alpha, which was very transmissible to begin with.  So 2800 times easier to spread that the first strain.  However we are not seeing many deaths from this. 

...

Some people have been calling this just another flu for 2 years now and in the US over 1000 are still dying every day. Eventually of course, like previous respiratory pandemics, the killing phase will morph into the "just another cold" phase, and those people will say, "told you so."

[digitaldog]

This is the cure. 
Turns out, looks like natural immunity is better, so this will burn through the population (even recent triple vaxed are getting it), and hopefully large amounts of natural immunity will finally end it.

Utterly incorrect.

Yes, and from the same folks who will tell you, just get infected, survive, (don't suffer long Covid-19), don't worry about the tax on the healthcare system and all the other nonesense. Meanwhile:

First Omicron Death in U.S. Was Reinfection
Dec. 24. 2021 -- The first confirmed death from the Omicron variant in the U.S. was a reinfection.
The man, who was in his 50s and lived in Harris County, Texas, was unvaccinated and had previously been infected with COVID-19. He recently contracted the virus again, and it was confirmed as the Omicron variant.
Harris County health officials also said he faced a higher risk for severe complications because of underlying health conditions and being unvaccinated**.

“This is a reminder of the severity of COVID-19 and its variants. We urge all residents who qualify to get vaccinated and get their booster shot if they have not already,” Barbie Robinson, executive director of Harris County Public Health, said in a statement.

** This is a cure too; natural seleciton. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Yes, and from the same folks who will tell you, just get infected, survive, (don't suffer long Covid-19), don't worry about the tax on the healthcare system and all the other nonesense. Meanwhile:** This is a cure too; natural seleciton. 

In that podcast above, Christakis explains that there are viruses for which acquiring "natural" immunity by getting sick provides better protection later on than vaccines, and that there are viruses for which man-made vaccines provide better protection than getting ill and recovering. He gives some examples of each, can't remember them now. But the Covid mRNA vaccines have been shown to provide better protection than recovering from being ill with Covid, and they do that without incurring a chance of death, which is usually seen as a negative outcome. With Covid, what they are discovering recently is that even better protection is provided by going both routes, so that if you had the bad luck of being ill with Covid and recovered, it is still recommended to be vaccinated because you'll be better off if you do so.

(Christakis doesn't get any money from the vaccine makers, btw, he is simply reporting on the data that shows this, just to head that objection off at the pass.)

The above is just one snippet of information (maybe 10 minutes worth) out of the nearly 3 hour discussion. There is lots more there. Real data and information is out there, and it is available for free all over the interweb, and from your doctors, and from public health authorities. Looking for magical solutions that everyone else missed is farcical.

Optimally handling pandemics is a time-varying multi-variate problem, I don't understand why there are always those who look for the magic bullet. This isn't a Hollywood movie, there is no lone hero with the "real" solution who is coming to save us.

[PeterAit]

Utterly incorrect.

Of course it is incorrect. Look whom it's from!

[digitaldog]

Hum... anthrax

Anti-Vax Podcaster Reportedly On Ventilator For COVID After Attending Right-Wing Rally
Doug Kuzma posed with supplies of the dewormer medicine Ivermectin, which the FDA and CDC have warned against using to treat COVID-19. As of Saturday, Kuzma was “sedated and on a ventilator;” he is “not conscious,” noted a Frog News message. “Doug needs heavy, heavy prayers,” the message added.
A number of individuals who fell ill with COVID-like symptoms after attending the same Dallas event have claimed without evidence that they were somehow poisoned with anthrax— rather than contracting COVID because few were likely vaccinated or wearing masks at the large, crowded event.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/doug-kuzma-covid-ventilator-reawaken-america_n_61c7c6e4e4b0bb04a6308680?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

[Alan Klein]

Of course it is incorrect. Look whom it's from!

That's a personal attack.  Just state your opinion on the matter.

[Manoli]

That's a personal attack.  Just state your opinion on the matter.

He just did.

[digitaldog]

That's a personal attack.

And like so many others, you'll report him. How's that working out for you?
Look up rhetorical question again.

"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say."-GEORGE R. R. MARTIN

[TechTalk]

That's a personal attack.  Just state your opinion on the matter.

I don't think anyone needs your instructions on what to post nor permission to do so.

You might be of use in instructing others on how to write personal attacks or pretend to be the victim. You've done both on multiple occasions.

[Alan Klein]

Fauci's getting too pushy, I think, even for Biden.  He's forcing Biden to make decisions he doesn't want to make.  Let's see if Fauci backs off or gets fired. 

Fauci: US should consider vaccine mandate for US air travel
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-joe-biden-travel-lifestyle-health-d0fa7cf5afa770984339f6370c5f1608

[LesPalenik]

Better vaccine mandates than quarantines and lockdowns.

[digitaldog]

Fauci's getting too pushy, I think, even for Biden. 

No, you really are not.

He's forcing Biden to make decisions he doesn't want to make.  Let's see if Fauci backs off or gets fired. 

Make up your minds sir, Fauci's forcing the CEO?

So now President Biden gets blamed for BARDA dragging their feet.  That's how blame works.  The CEO takes the heat.

The absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument.

[Manoli]

Fauci's getting too pushy, I think, even for Biden.  He's forcing Biden to make decisions he doesn't want to make.  Let's see if Fauci backs off or gets fired. 

Fauci: US should consider vaccine mandate for US air travel
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-joe-biden-travel-lifestyle-health-d0fa7cf5afa770984339f6370c5f1608

Today alone over 2500 flights cancelled (I'm assuming that's worldwide) coming on top of at least two days when total flights cancelled exceeded 4500. The Omicron variant is sending daily flight crew shortages soaring and the outlook is , at least in the immediate term, bleak.

There comes a point where airlines will need to gauge loss of income from restricting access to flights by virtue of a vaccine 'requirement' prior to boarding an aircraft as against the loss of passengers who will freely elect NOT to travel due to insufficient safeguards.

Fauci just stating the 'bleeding obvious'.

[Manoli]

Interesting op-ed in The Guardian, extracted below.

In fact, simply wearing a high-filtration mask (*) can buy you significant time if exposed to infectious individuals. Analysis and studies suggest that with cloth or surgical masks, the risk of infection may increase within minutes of being around others with either no mask or low-performing masks. However with the use of well fitting, high-filtration masks, this same level of exposure would now take hours to become dangerous. However, it should be noted that being around a contagious person always carries some risk.
[...]
These masks feature a high-tech material called electrostatically charged meltblown polypropylene (quite a mouthful). It features tightly spaced micron-sized fibres – about 1/50th the diameter of a human hair – that have an electrostatic charge applied to them to catch even smaller particles. This material can filter particles that are a just a few nanometres in size.
[...]
Not all masks are created equal, so it’s time to make sure everyone knows about high-filtration masks. These simple, inexpensive and super-effective masks can make a significant difference in our fight against Covid. If you wear a mask, you might as well make it count by wearing the best.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/27/best-masks-covid-tests-cloth-surgical-respirators

(*) fuller details in the article, but the EU FFP2, 3M with the 9152 (9105 in the US), amongst others.

[Chris Kern]

Interesting op-ed in The Guardian, extracted below.

In fact, simply wearing a high-filtration mask can buy you significant time if exposed to infectious individuals.

Undoubtedly true, but a respirator only achieves its full protective potential if the product has been fit-tested on a particular individual—a procedure the user should repeat each time he puts on a new type of mask.  Execute a search on "face mask fit [training|testing]" to find articles and videos that attempt to explain the proper end-user procedures.  Some masks fit better on some faces than others; it's useful to try several different products and standardize on one that works well for you.

[Alan Klein]

Besides masks like the N95, 3M Corporation also makes HVAC filters called Filtrete.  I'm currently using the MPR 2200 (MERV 13 rating) in the return duct to my central air HVAC heating and cooling unit that picks up microbes and allergens as well as dust, pollen etc.   Here's a chart for their various filters if you're interested in selecting one to use. 
https://www.filtrete.com/3M/en_US/filtrete/about-us/mpr-vs-merv/

[Alan Klein]

The CDC is changing from blue to red.  They're now looking at the economy too.  Watch Fauci back off too as Biden puts pressure on him to shut up regarding mandatory vaccinations to fly. 

The C.D.C. shortened isolation periods as Omicron cases soared.
As daily coronavirus cases in the United States soared to near record levels, federal health officials on Monday shortened by half the recommended isolation period for many infected Americans, hoping to minimize rising disruptions to the economy and everyday life.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/us/quarantine-5-days.html

[digitaldog]

Watch Fauci back off too as Biden puts pressure on him to shut up regarding mandatory vaccinations to fly. 

More assumptions and fictional 'thinking'.
Fauci will continue to follow the science. Which is WHY the CDC is changing their recommendations.
This is what you don't know, that they do know:

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday shortened the recommended times that people should isolate when they've tested positive for Covid-19 from 10 days to five days if they don't have symptoms -- and if they wear a mask around others for at least five more days. "Given what we currently know about COVID-19 and the Omicron variant, CDC is shortening the recommended time for isolation from 10 days for people with COVID-19 to five days, if asymptomatic, followed by five days of wearing a mask when around others," the CDC said in a statement.

Further, this is the science they study, you don't:

"The change is motivated by science demonstrating that the majority of SARS-CoV-2 transmission occurs early in the course of illness, generally in the 1-2 days prior to onset of symptoms and the 2-3 days after.