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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107448 times)

Two23

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2240 on: November 26, 2021, 10:17:38 pm »

Maybe I just happen not to see the relevant newscasts but why are these stories about full hospitals not at the top of all media stories? Surely that kind of news has to be in the top 5 most important things that actually affect people's real daily lives. I'd want to know.


It was all over the news in August in the Pacific Northwest.


Kent in SD
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2241 on: November 27, 2021, 02:00:12 am »

Who's going to make new vaccines if you're going to steal their inventions? What a dumb idea.  Photos next?

For a full run-down on this issue read Wikipedia Deployment of COVID-19 vaccines and this, COVID-19 vaccine
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 02:31:02 am by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2242 on: November 27, 2021, 02:30:36 am »

A concise and to-the-point article on What do we know about the new ‘worst ever’ Covid variant?

And a graphic on the Omicron:



The Botswana variant has around 50 mutations and more than 30 of them are on the spike protein. The current crop of vaccines trigger the body to recognise the version of the spike protein from older versions of the virus. But the mutations may make the spike protein look so different that the body's immune system struggles to recognise it and fight it off. And three of the spike mutations (H665Y, N679K, P681H) help it enter the body's cells more easily. Meanwhile, it is missing a membrane protein (NSP6) which was seen in earlier iterations of the virus, which experts think could make it more infectious. And it has two mutations (R203K and G204R) that have been present in all variants of concern so far and have been linked with infectiousness.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 03:02:16 am by Manoli »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2243 on: November 27, 2021, 09:40:36 am »

Not good.

The Netherlands finds 61 Covid cases in air arrivals from South Africa, and is checking for the variant.
Sixty-one people from two flights from South Africa to the Netherlands have tested positive for the coronavirus, Dutch health officials said early Saturday. It was unclear as of late morning local time if the cases were linked to the newly discovered Omicron variant.

The health officials tested 600 passengers who arrived on Friday morning at Amsterdam’s Schiphol Airport. Those who tested negative were allowed to leave the airport and quarantine at home, or to continue their journeys.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/27/world/amsterdam-cases-covid-variant.html

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2244 on: November 27, 2021, 09:42:15 am »

For a full run-down on this issue read Wikipedia Deployment of COVID-19 vaccines and this, COVID-19 vaccine
Could you sum up what these two voluminous articles have to say about Biden suggesting vaccines shouldn't have intellectual property (patent) protection? 

Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2245 on: November 27, 2021, 10:53:17 am »

Could you sum up what these two voluminous articles have to say about Biden suggesting vaccines shouldn't have intellectual property (patent) protection? 

The article is incorrect. IPP is not the reason vaccine is not reaching the poorer nations. There are numerous articles in the press and finger pointing particularly towards the ‘vaccine hoarding’ of both the UK and the EU.

As regards Pfizer and Moderna , Pfizer allows manufacture under licence but keeps close watch on  quality control issues - something that Moderna has already had issues with within the USA. Astra Zeneca/ Oxford have already announced a ‘not-for-profit’ operation.

All the above without guarantee, I haven’t followed this issue in detail.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2246 on: November 27, 2021, 11:15:03 am »

The article is incorrect. IPP is not the reason vaccine is not reaching the poorer nations. There are numerous articles in the press and finger pointing particularly towards the ‘vaccine hoarding’ of both the UK and the EU.

As regards Pfizer and Moderna , Pfizer allows manufacture under licence but keeps close watch on  quality control issues - something that Moderna has already had issues with within the USA. Astra Zeneca/ Oxford have already announced a ‘not-for-profit’ operation.

All the above without guarantee, I haven’t followed this issue in detail.
I'm confused.  Are you saying my article was incorrect or yours?  Here's another article that indicates Biden wants to waive IP on vaccines.  His plan will only lead to pharmaceutical companies not producing vaccines or delaying or reducing their production.  How does that help fight the new Covid variant?  Everything this guy does makes things worse.  Who's advising him?  Instead, we should be offering an award of $50 or $100 million dollars to the first company that produces a proven vaccine that works against Omnicron. 

U.S. President Biden calls for intellectual property protection waivers after Omicron discovery
"The news about this new variant should make clearer than ever why this pandemic will not end until we have global vaccinations," Biden said in a statement.

"This news today reiterates the importance of moving on this (waiving intellectual property protections) quickly."

The Biden administration faces fresh criticism over a failure to get vaccines to poorer countries while supplying free booster shots to Americans, after the new variant named Omicron was identified.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/us-president-biden-calls-for-intellectual-property-protection-waivers-on-covid19-vaccines-2691326

William Walker

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2247 on: November 30, 2021, 12:57:45 am »

We are a little "tetchy" here in South Africa about "finding" the new variant... :)

There are those who feel we are being "punished" for being so quick and so open about it.
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2248 on: November 30, 2021, 04:52:40 am »

We are a little "tetchy" here in South Africa about "finding" the new variant... :)
There are those who feel we are being "punished" for being so quick and so open about it.

I've seen nothing in this variant that warrants Britain's extreme response to it: Dr ANGELIQUE COETZEE, the doctor who alerted the world to the Omicron Covid variant, says we are over-reacting to the threat

Understandable although given the experiences since January last year - this time the Governments are pre-emptively acting with a hope that this new mutation will be contained and, more importantly, will not result in serious illness. Not helped by the CEO of Moderna …

Quote
The head of Moderna today warned it will take months to develop an Omicron-fighting vaccine. Stephane Bancel, who leads the vaccine manufacturer, said another two weeks were needed for scientists to work out how effective the current jabs are against the variant, but that early signs are not encouraging. The chief executive said they were particularly concerned by 32 mutations on the spike protein — which the virus uses to invade cells — which would likely lead to a 'material drop' in jab effectiveness. Mr Bancel told the Financial Times: 'All the scientists I've talked to... are like "this is not going to be good".' Experts warn it is likely vaccines will be less effective at preventing infections with Omicron, but they should still be able to prevent hospitalisations and deaths in most cases. There are also fears the variant may be better able to infect those who got their second jab more than six months ago, after studies showed anitbody levels crashed by 80 per cent over this period.


« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 05:54:53 am by Manoli »
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William Walker

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2249 on: November 30, 2021, 07:51:47 am »

Governments are criticised for being too heavy-handed at the start of a crisis and of not having done enough at the end... :)
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2250 on: November 30, 2021, 09:28:30 am »


It was all over the news in August in the Pacific Northwest.


Kent in SD

Thanks.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2251 on: December 01, 2021, 03:18:17 pm »

Joe's post, to which I replied, has four points which he numbered: First, Second, Third, Fourth. So far, I have replied only to his First point. Your responses to me are in regard to his Second to which I have not yet responded or written about. Given your inability to understand this fact, it is pointless to discuss this with you any further.

So I made one clerical mistake that you did not make clear in the data you posted and you lose you shit over it.  How interesting.   

But anyway, if those flu stats you posted are for two years (not one) that would make them an even bigger outlier and more irrelevant then I thought they were.  Thanks for the correction on my clerical error and making my point even stronger in the process. 

Last though, you posted that data in response to my statement that C-19 for sub-45 year olds is about as deadly as the flu in a typical year as if I was wrong.  But your data, compared to the total USA population of 0 to 50 year olds, shows only slightly higher of a percentage (0.02385% vs 0.02%) of that group has died of C-19 then what we would expect in a typical flu year.  Would you care to respond to this point specifically? 

PS
Just to preemptively respond to the probable observation that the time span for half of that data encompasses a period after already having vaccines, we have had a yearly flu vaccine that is accounted for in the modern fatality rate of 0.02% for 0 to 45 year olds. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 03:28:17 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2252 on: December 01, 2021, 03:23:25 pm »

Just for the sake of keeping every one grounded, I think it should be noted that the discovering scientist in South Africa went on TV to say it is not something we should be really concerned about since it appears to only produce mild symptoms and no one has yet been admitted to the hospital because of it.  So, more contagious but, in all likelihood, less fatal, which is the natural trajectory of all pandemics that become endemic by the way.   

Covid is here to stay; we are not getting rid of it.  It is going to become another common cold virus that mutates so frequently any vaccine will probably end up being about as effective as the common flu vaccine.  If you lose you shit every time a new variant is found, especially after two years, several effective vaccines and therapeutics, you're going to go insane. 

Lighting your hair on fire and having it put out with shovel every morning is no way to live. 

As for me, I am looking forward to spending a month in the Middle East starting Monday and being paid to do so.  And my only concern is whether or not the current resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave will now do something that will make it impossible to leave the country.  Albeit, I have been sick for the last week, so also keeping my fingers crossed I test negative for C-19 on Sunday, which would put the kibosh on my travel plans. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 03:30:54 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2253 on: December 01, 2021, 07:16:42 pm »

I have been sick for the last week, so also keeping my fingers crossed I test negative for C-19 on Sunday, which would put the kibosh on my travel plans. 

Hoping your test proves Covid-19 negative and wishing you safe travels.
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Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2254 on: December 01, 2021, 07:23:23 pm »

To better understand the coronavirus’s journey from one person to another, a team of 50 scientists has for the first time created an atomic simulation of the coronavirus nestled in a tiny airborne drop of water.

NYT - recommended.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/01/science/coronavirus-aerosol-simulation.html?referringSource=articleShare
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2255 on: December 01, 2021, 08:19:16 pm »

So I made one clerical mistake that you did not make clear in the data you posted and you lose you [your] shit over it.  How interesting.   

So, you want to shift the blame to me for your inability to understand data that was clearly labeled as being for the same time period AND for which, I provided a link so that you could review that data yourself before you went off half-cocked making false assertions. Then you assert that I "[lost my] shit over it" by pointing out your mistake. How interesting. 

Also, the "clerical mistake" [?] that you made was simply not bothering to check whether the assumption you made was true or not; despite the fact that you could have easily done so with the link that I provided. Assume, then post, then check the facts may be the wrong order in which to best provide accurate information.

But anyway, if those flu stats you posted are for two years (not one) that would make them an even bigger outlier and more irrelevant then I thought they were.  Thanks for the correction on my clerical error and making my point even stronger in the process. 

I have no doubt that you believe that the flu statistics for the past two years are "irrelevant" as they don't fit your narrative. You might wish to consider, however, the relevant fact that those are the only two years we have to compare two communicable diseases (COVID-19 and flu) in which they both coexisted for the same population under identical patterns of behavior for both society and that population. If you wish to compare COVID-19 deaths to flu deaths prior to the existence of COVID-19, it would be helpful to acknowledge and understand that societal interactions and population behaviors were very different in those previous years. Frankly, I don't find comparisons of COVID-19 to seasonal flu very useful, but those that want to minimize the deadly nature of COVID-19 keep grasping at the comparison for some reason.

The assertion that you shouldn't compare flu deaths over the past two years to COVID deaths over the past two years makes no sense. They are are the only two years in which flu viruses have existed under the same conditions as SARS-CoV-2 viruses. Did societal and behavioral changes such as masking, social distancing, reduced travel, gathering restrictions, etc. impact flu deaths? It would be an understatement to say that those mitigation strategies appear to have had an overwhelming impact on the extraordinary reduction in deaths involving flu which measures less than 700 for the U.S. to date in 2021 (*676 U.S. deaths involving flu in 2021 as of 12/1/2021). If someone believes that those same mitigation strategies didn't also keep COVID-19 deaths from being a good deal higher than the hundreds of thousands of deaths recorded during the same period, I'd be interested in a logical explanation of why those behavioral changes and mitigation strategies affected the death toll from one disease and not the other.

Still, I don't know why you write "if those flu stats you posted are for two years (not one)"—have you still not bothered to check. I gave you, and everyone else, a link to verify for yourself. By the way, when you post information like statistics—your earlier false interpretation of statistics on NYC vaccination demographics for example—it would be helpful to provide a link.

* In the link for U.S. deaths involving flu in 2021 above, you can sort the data for annual totals by using the "Yearly" tab at the bottom of Table #1. You can also sort by selected year (2020 or 2021) by using the drop down menu in the upper right corner under "Year". This CDC table has data for all deaths that include Pneumonia, Influenza, and COVID-19 (PIC Data) during 2020 and 2021. It is the same 2020/2021 data table that I've referenced before and also in the post below. The table is regularly updated and loads separately from the text on the website, so it may take a brief amount of time to load.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 02:24:35 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2256 on: December 02, 2021, 01:59:00 am »

Last though, you posted that data in response to my statement that C-19 for sub-45 year olds is about as deadly as the flu in a typical year as if I was wrong.  But your data, compared to the total USA population of 0 to 50 year olds, shows only slightly higher of a percentage (0.02385% vs 0.02%) of that group has died of C-19 then what we would expect in a typical flu year.  Would you care to respond to this point specifically? 

Specifically? Sure. Let's start with your previous post on the subject. I'll insert some comments [in brackets] and go from there. Perhaps by breaking it down into the various individual and differing types of statistical measurement, you and others can see the deception you're selling. It's actually similar in some respects to the way that you screwed up the NYC vaccination demographic statistics that you posted earlier.

Fourth, and let's do some math, 0 through 49 deaths are 50,491 [This is the Total Mortality for the entire population of that group for that period], which is 6.6% percent of all of the deaths so far from Covid.  Out of the entire USA population of 0 to 49 year olds (about 211.6M), that is just 0.02385% [This is the Mortality Rate (MR) for COVID-19 for the entire population of that group for that period], which is ... wait for it ... similar to the fatality rate of the flu for those under 45 of 0.02% [This is the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) for flu which is always a much higher percentage than the Mortality Rate as it only includes estimated or reported cases of disease and not the entire population—taking the same number of fatalities as a percentage of a smaller number (cases of disease) rather than the total population group as a whole].  Sure, not a perfect compaison [sic] since not everyone 0 to 49 have caught C-19 [This would be the Estimated Infection Fatality Rate (IFR), deaths relative to an estimate of all infections comprising asymptomatic cases as well as severity of any level (the total estimate of all asymptomatic, mild symptomatic, severe symptomatic and fatal cases combined). IFR can only be estimated due to lack of testing for the entire population set being considered.], but all data is showing significantly more then half. [More on all of this deceptive mixing of statistics and added misinformation below.]

So, you take the Mortality Rate (MR) for COVID-19, the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) for flu, toss in a reference to Estimated Infection Fatality Rate (IFR), put them all in a bag and mix them together to demonstrate your commanding knowledge of statistics and epidemiology. Let's continue to examine your lecture professor.

If you want to make comparisons of COVID-19 and flu fatality rates, I suggest that you stick to comparing mortality rate to mortality rate and case fatality rate to case fatality rate. When you don't it looks foolish as well as deceptive. For instance, here's a link from last year to a chart showing CFR for flu (which shows a 0.2% for ages 18-49 like you do) to CFR for COVID-19 which is much higher (vastly greater depending on age range). This chart is from June 23, 2020 and is not meant to reflect current data. It's just an example of how data should be compared.

The chart that I provided from CDC compared Total Mortality to Total Mortality (All Deaths Involving COVID-19 vs All Deaths Involving Influenza) by age range for the same time periods under the same conditions. That is a valid comparison. You comparing the Mortality Rate (MR) for COVID-19 to the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) for flu, not so much.

But, let's do what you and others would like. Let's compare an exceptionally bad previous flu season to COVID-19 and let's compare deaths for the 0-49 year age population instead of seniors that are most at risk of dying from either flu or COVID-19.

Robert Roaldi was correct when he stated "deaths from flu seemed to be about 30,000-35,000 over the years". CDC records flu data year-round and charts "flu seasons" from week 40 (about the beginning of October) thru week 39 (about the end of September) of the following year. Flu activity generally begins to increase in October with the peak months being from December thru March which is why flu season data isn't generally charted by calendar year. If you look at the previous 10-years of flu deaths from 2010 to 2020 they range from 12,000 to 52,000 annually with a total of 334,000 deaths over 10-years for an average 33,400 total deaths per season.

Let's take the worst flu season of the past decade which was 2017/2018 (52-week period from October 2017 thru September 2018) with a recorded total of 52,000 deaths (51,646 to be precise) and let's look at the deaths by age group. Flu Deaths 2017/2018 - Ages: 0-4 = 110 / 5-17 = 416 / 18-49 = 2,255 (Total Flu Deaths 2017/2018 - Ages: 0-49 = 2,781). As I've mentioned, it should be considered that the mitigation efforts were not in place, during this time period, which we have seen over the past two years during which COVID-19 has existed. So we will be comparing flu without recent mitigation efforts to COVID-19 with recent mitigation efforts.

Now let's look at COVID-19 deaths. CDC hasn't charted COVID-19 death by "52-week seasons", but we do have 52-week calendar year totals. COVID-19 Deaths 2020 - Ages: 0-17 = 198 / 18-29 = 1,482 / 30-39 = 4,286 / 40-49 = 11,317 (Total COVID-19 Deaths 2020 - Ages: 0-49 = 17,283). COVID-19 Deaths 2021 (As of 12/1/2021) - Ages: 0-17 = 432 / 18-29 = 3,136 / 30-39 = 9,352 / 40-49 = 21,851 (Total COVID-19 Deaths 2021 (As of 12/1/2021) - Ages: 0-49 = 34,771).

For reference, Total COVID-19 Deaths for All Ages: 2020 = 385,338 / 2021 (As of 12/1/2021) = 394,064. Total Deaths Involving Flu for All Ages: 2020 = 8,786 / 2021 (As of 12/1/2021) = 676. Total Deaths Involving Flu - Ages 0-49: 2020 = 1,127 / 2021 (As of 12/1/2021) = 53.

Why have COVID-19 deaths more than doubled in the 0-49 year age range in 2021 compared to 2020? The best suspect, in my view, would be the emergence of the Delta variant in 2021 which became the dominant variant by mid-year. If you've seen or heard news reports that the Delta variant was not only more contagious, but also claiming younger victims; you can see its affect above.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 04:04:11 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2257 on: December 02, 2021, 02:42:17 am »

For those looking for a quick summary that cuts to the chase...

Last though, you posted that data in response to my statement that C-19 for sub-45 year olds is about as deadly as the flu in a typical year as if I was wrong.

Yes, I did. That's because you were wrong.

But your data, compared to the total USA population of 0 to 50 year olds, shows only slightly higher of a percentage (0.02385% vs 0.02%) of that group has died of C-19 then what we would expect in a typical flu year.

That's where you were wrong. You don't pay attention to what the statistics that you post represent or compare them in any sort of logical manner that has any meaning. To make matters even more convoluted, messy, and wrong; you mix and mash different statistical categories and statistics together into one statistical compost pile.

Would you care to respond to this point specifically? 

I did... in detail... above. It was more time consuming than I would like, but I guess somebody has to do it to keep the gullible from swallowing it or parrots from repeating it.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 04:17:31 am by TechTalk »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2258 on: December 02, 2021, 05:53:17 am »

Covid is here to stay; we are not getting rid of it.  It is going to become another common cold virus that mutates so frequently any vaccine will probably end up being about as effective as the common flu vaccine.  If you lose you shit every time a new variant is found, especially after two years, several effective vaccines and therapeutics, you're going to go insane. 

This may be all true, but when looking at the number of C19 deaths in USA (over 800,000 by end of November 2021 and trending to over 1 million by next spring) and compare it to other countries, it is very unfortunate that so many Americans are dying needlessly.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2259 on: December 02, 2021, 09:19:32 am »

This may be all true, but when looking at the number of C19 deaths in USA (over 800,000 by end of November 2021 and trending to over 1 million by next spring) and compare it to other countries, it is very unfortunate that so many Americans are dying needlessly.
The opposition to vaccines has also taken hold in European countries where demonstrations are more violent than in America.  I guess that's because mandates over there can be enforced while Americans are still allowed to gamble with their lives.  Meanwhile, I can't yet convince my wife to go to a restaurant with me.  But she did finally agree to get her booster last weekend. So we're making some headway. 
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