Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[LesPalenik]

The opposition to vaccines has also taken hold in European countries where demonstrations are more violent than in America.  I guess that's because mandates over there can be enforced while Americans are still allowed to gamble with their lives.  Meanwhile, I can't yet convince my wife to go to a restaurant with me.  But she did finally agree to get her booster last weekend. So we're making some headway.

Booster shot is a good idea, but going to a restaurant not. That is not essential and still risky. Recently, I read that Bryan Adams, although vaccinated twice was infected for a second time with Covid.

[Alan Klein]

Booster shot is a good idea, but going to a restaurant not. That is not essential and still risky. Recently, I read that Bryan Adams, although vaccinated twice was infected for a second with Covid.

We went to see my daughter and son-in-law Tuesday in their home.  They had a baby boy making us grandparents, for the first time.   So we didn't want to eat out because of the baby.  So we stopped in a deli and picked up four meals to take to their house to eat.  Of course, the deli was crowded so I don't know how much safer that was.  We did wear our masks, however. 

[Chris Kern]

So we stopped in a deli and picked up four meals to take to their house to eat.  Of course, the deli was crowded so I don't know how much safer that was.  We did wear our masks, however.

Crowded indoor locations can be risky, especially if they have poor ventilation and are in geographical areas with high infection rates, but if you're "fully vaccinated" (in the United States, that means three doses of the mRNA vaccines or two of the Janssen vaccine) and you wear a respirator-type mask (KN95 with ear loops or, better yet, N95 with neck and head straps), everything I've read suggests you are quite effectively protected.  Wash your hands or use a liberal amount of hand sanitizer before eating.

In Europe, the EU-standard FFP2 respirator has similar filtering characteristics to the Chinese-standard KN95 and American-standard N95 versions.  Cloth masks and surgical masks primarily protect other people from virus particles you might be shedding, although there is some evidence that even these loose-fitting masks help protect the wearer.

In a restaurant, I wear a facemask until the food is delivered to my table, and try to get a table that is separated from other diners by at least one other table.  Many places clear out rather dramatically shortly after "regular" meal hours.

[Alan Klein]

Reminds me of the guy who was told a KN95 mask was enough to wear to the diner and was arrested for nudity. 

[LesPalenik]

Reminds me of the guy who was told a KN95 mask was enough to wear to the diner and was arrested for nudity.

 

[James Clark]

Booster shot is a good idea, but going to a restaurant not. That is not essential and still risky. Recently, I read that Bryan Adams, although vaccinated twice was infected for a second with Covid.

So long as Alan Thicke, Wayne Gretzky, & Celine Dion remain uninfected, Canada still has a chance!

[JoeKitchen]

Booster shot is a good idea, but going to a restaurant not. That is not essential and still risky. Recently, I read that Bryan Adams, although vaccinated twice was infected for a second time with Covid.

My Gawd, I really wish you had told us this last week.  I was at McGillin's, an 1860s old school pub in Center City Philly, this black Friday and the house was packed.  Every chair was taken, but we managed to get a hi-top.  Not only that, it was the only time in my life where people at a restaurant, without a dance floor, were randomly breaking out in not just song but also dance.  I'm being totally seriously on that last part, and yes, it was odd.  Good times, but at what expense, oh my. 

But anyway, riddle me this, when does this end in your opinion?

Early this week, or perhaps it was late last week, the leftist high priest Anthony Fauci by holy decree announced that Covid is here to stay.  We are not going to get rid of it, aka it's now endemic. 

Fauci: Learn to Live With COVID Because ‘We’re Not Going to Eradicate’ It

Then, last night, at a CNN town hall he also suggested that anyone who is vaccinated against C-19 and has also gotten a booster shot recently should continue to wear a mask and socially distance. 

So, for a virus that he admits is never going away, no matter how many times we are vaccinated against it we still need to need to perform all of this?

What is the limiting principle here?  When does this end?  Because from my stand point he (and the rest of the left) is setting up the scenario where they can just keep on extending and extending and extending masking and lockdowns until the end of time. 

This is why I am so outspoken about traveling and not being afraid, because it is obvious those in power pushing this are doing so because they enjoy the extra power.  They have been corrupted by this, and I know this.  My brother works in far left wing democratic politics for far left wing democrats, and, in private, he openingly admits no one actually thinks these things do anything.  They are just pushing them to placate to a rabid base so they can win democratic primaries and maintain their power. 

[JoeKitchen]

Hoping your test proves Covid-19 negative and wishing you safe travels.

Thank you Manoli, and I mean that. 

I hope so too.  I have spent too much money on new shoes, linen pants and long sleeve dress shirts, and a whole new cache of underwear for it to go to waste. 

[JoeKitchen]

So, you want to shift the blame to me for your inability to understand data that was clearly labeled as being for the same time period AND for which, I provided a link so that you could review that data yourself before you went off half-cocked making false assertions. Then you assert that I "[lost my] shit over it" by pointing out your mistake. How interesting. 

Also, the "clerical mistake" [?] that you made was simply not bothering to check whether the assumption you made was true or not; despite the fact that you could have easily done so with the link that I provided. Assume, then post, then check the facts may be the wrong order in which to best provide accurate information.

I have no doubt that you believe that the flu statistics for the past two years are "irrelevant" as they don't fit your narrative. You might wish to consider, however, the relevant fact that those are the only two years we have to compare two communicable diseases (COVID-19 and flu) in which they both coexisted for the same population under identical patterns of behavior for both society and that population. If you wish to compare COVID-19 deaths to flu deaths prior to the existence of COVID-19, it would be helpful to acknowledge and understand that societal interactions and population behaviors were very different in those previous years. Frankly, I don't find comparisons of COVID-19 to seasonal flu very useful, but those that want to minimize the deadly nature of COVID-19 keep grasping at the comparison for some reason.

The assertion that you shouldn't compare flu deaths over the past two years to COVID deaths over the past two years makes no sense. They are are the only two years in which flu viruses have existed under the same conditions as SARS-CoV-2 viruses. Did societal and behavioral changes such as masking, social distancing, reduced travel, gathering restrictions, etc. impact flu deaths? It would be an understatement to say that those mitigation strategies appear to have had an overwhelming impact on the extraordinary reduction in deaths involving flu which measures less than 700 for the U.S. to date in 2021 (*676 U.S. deaths involving flu in 2021 as of 12/1/2021). If someone believes that those same mitigation strategies didn't also keep COVID-19 deaths from being a good deal higher than the hundreds of thousands of deaths recorded during the same period, I'd be interested in a logical explanation of why those behavioral changes and mitigation strategies affected the death toll from one disease and not the other.

Still, I don't know why you write "if those flu stats you posted are for two years (not one)"—have you still not bothered to check. I gave you, and everyone else, a link to verify for yourself. By the way, when you post information like statistics—your earlier false interpretation of statistics on NYC vaccination demographics for example—it would be helpful to provide a link.

* In the link for U.S. deaths involving flu in 2021 above, you can sort the data for annual totals by using the "Yearly" tab at the bottom of Table #1. You can also sort by selected year (2020 or 2021) by using the drop down menu in the upper right corner under "Year". This CDC table has data for all deaths that include Pneumonia, Influenza, and COVID-19 (PIC Data) during 2020 and 2021. It is the same 2020/2021 data table that I've referenced before and also in the post below. The table is regularly updated and loads separately from the text on the website, so it may take a brief amount of time to load.

So if I get Rabies and survive (after the on-sought of symptoms of course), can I then say, after getting over the virus, that based on the last minute we can conclude that Rabies is 100% survivable? 

No!  Because all past knowledge has taught us that Rabies is 100% fatal, and, if I did survive it, it was a fluke.  I was one of the dozen or so outliers in all of human history that survived Rabies, just like the last two years were outliers for the flu.

So no, the data of flu deaths for the last two years is meaningless due to the extensive data we have on the flu that has taught us its true IFR.  Likewise, insisting that we conclude that conditions that may have reduced the spread of the flu (which we can not actually prove) effected the spread of C-19 when nearly the entirety of the country has already caught it makes no sense.  Maybe the lockdowns help reduce the spread of the flu, but there is no correlation yet shown they had any effect on C-19.  Lock down heavy states and lock down lite states are all over the place with seemingly no logic to it what so ever.  CA and FL are right next to each other on death rates and they are at opposite sides of the spectrum with lockdowns. 

But more to the point.  Everyone by the time they are 50, whether they are vaccinated or not, will have caught the flu at least once by the time they are 50.  Everyone, whether vaccinated or not (it seems), is going to catch C-19.  I dont care when I catch either, just what are the chances I will survive it, and for those under 50 in good health the chances are very close to each other and zero. 

Likewise, I don't care when I may get bitten by a wild animal.  All I care about is what likelihood do I have of dying from Rabies.  100%, which is why I would get my ass to a hospital right at that moment in time. 

[TechTalk]

CA and FL are right next to each other on death rates and they are at opposite sides of the spectrum with lockdowns. 

California COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 1,895

Florida COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 2,865

United States Total COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 2,434

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-deaths-daily

Do you ever check any facts before you post?

[JoeKitchen]

That's where you were wrong. You don't pay attention to what the statistics that you post represent or compare them in any sort of logical manner that has any meaning. To make matters even more convoluted, messy, and wrong; you mix and mash different statistical categories and statistics together into one statistical compost pile.

LOL man.  You cant make your point, just admit it.  In essence you just want to show that C-19 is much more deadly then the flu to 0 through 50 year olds so you can justify the draconian measures that you wish to see reimplemented on 0 through 50 year olds.  You turn on the news and see stadiums packed with kids and young adults, you walk down the street and see restaurant packed again, and it makes you nervous.  So you want some way to justify more lockdowns. 

The math is just not on your side though.  50K deaths form C-19 out of 211M is not enough for anyone to panic over in that age group.  Not to mention we have some very effective vaccines at preventing death regardless of age, but you are still living in paranoia.  Sure, if your over the age of 65 and want to be cautious, I wont judge, but dont expect me or anyone else to keep on doing this.  My parents are over 65, just got the booster and went right back to living a normal pre-Covid life like they have been since January. 

[JoeKitchen]

California COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 1,895

Florida COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 2,865

United States Total COVID-19 Deaths per Million Population = 2,434

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/#graph-deaths-daily

Do you ever check any facts before you post?

I have not checked those stats since the Spring.  Thank you for bringing them to my attention.  With that being said, this spreads when people go inside.  In FL this happens in the summer (already past us) when it is hot.  In the NE, winter (in front of us) is what brings people inside. 

[TechTalk]

LOL man.  You cant make your point, just admit it.  In essence you just want to show that C-19 is much more deadly then the flu to 0 through 50 year olds so you can justify the draconian measures that you wish to see reimplemented on 0 through 50 year olds...

The math is just not on your side though.

LOL man.  You can't make your point using math or statistics, just admit it—every time you turn to statistics, you make a mess of it.  In essence you just want to show that C-19 is no more deadly than the flu to 0 through 50 year olds for no logical reason.

The math is just not on your side though. Even when compared to a well above average flu season death rate, COVID-19 kills far more people under age 50 and in 2021 COVID-19 was twice as deadly than 2020 for the under-50 population.

You're a serial spreader of misinformation regarding medical science as well as statistics. I don't take any of what you post on those topics seriously, but I use my valued time to hopefully give the gullible better resources for information with links to credible sources.

[Alan Klein]

I have not checked those stats since the Spring.  Thank you for bringing them to my attention.  With that being said, this spreads when people go inside.  In FL this happens in the summer (already past us) when it is hot.  In the NE, winter (in front of us) is what brings people inside. 

Good to know.  My wife just suggested a vacation in Florida in February.  Seems safer there then.  I'm desperate for a break and vacation.  Stir crazy already being all cooped up for two years.  We both have our boosters so we're ready to go. 

[Alan Klein]

LOL man.  You can't make your point using math or statistics, just admit it—every time you turn to statistics, you make a mess of it.  In essence you just want to show that C-19 is no more deadly than the flu to 0 through 50 year olds for no logical reason.

The math is just not on your side though. Even when compared to a well above average flu season death rate, COVID-19 kills far more people under age 50 and in 2021 COVID-19 was twice as deadly than 2020 for the under-50 population.

You're a serial spreader of misinformation regarding medical science as well as statistics. I don't take any of what you post on those topics seriously, but I use my valued time to hopefully give the gullible better resources for information with links to credible sources.

Why do you keep using 2020 when there was little flu because everyone was isolating? 

[LesPalenik]

My Gawd, I really wish you had told us this last week.  I was at McGillin's, an 1860s old school pub in Center City Philly, this black Friday and the house was packed.  Every chair was taken, but we managed to get a hi-top.  Not only that, it was the only time in my life where people at a restaurant, without a dance floor, were randomly breaking out in not just song but also dance.  I'm being totally seriously on that last part, and yes, it was odd.  Good times, but at what expense, oh my. 

You are right, many people are just dying to dance again. That was the main reason I went to restaurants with good music and a dance floor, not because of their food. Unfortunately, pretty much all dance events in Ontario are still suspended, so for now we tango and waltz only in our homes. The good thing about dancing in your living room or in a small studio is that you don't need masks there.

[Alan Klein]

The Democrats must be telling Biden to back off.  They're getting really nervous about the 2022 mid-term elections when they probably will lose the house, maybe the senate.  If Trump did this, he'd be accused by the liberal media and Democrats of murdering Americans. 


Biden says he doesn’t want lockdowns and won’t expand vaccine mandates to fight Covid this winter
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/02/covid-news-biden-says-no-lockdowns-wont-expand-vaccine-mandates-this-winter.html

[LesPalenik]

Why do you keep using 2020 when there was little flu because everyone was isolating?

I suspect that 2021 flu numbers will be similar to 2020. Or did it get worse?

[Alan Klein]

You are right, many people are just dying to dance again. That was the main reason I went to restaurants with good music and a dance floor, not because of their food. Unfortunately, pretty much all dance events in Ontario are still suspended, so for now we tango and waltz only in our homes. The good thing about dancing in your living room or in a small studio is that you don't need masks there.

Do you wear a mask when you dance at home or only when you have sex? 

[Alan Klein]

I suspect that 2021 flu numbers will be similar to 2020. Or did it get worse?

COmparing Covid in 2020/2021 should be compared to earlier flu seasons like 2018/2019.  Since everyone was isolated last year in 2020/2021, flu nearly died out.  S0 it would be a unique year to compare Covid to flu.