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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107985 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2180 on: November 20, 2021, 10:08:21 am »

It has been here a while, but as often happens in these matters, emotions are irrelevant. The virus doesn't give a damn if people are sick of taking special measures. I bet cancer patients get sick of their routines too.

The Worldometer USA numbers are interesting. Although daily deaths are trending down, the 7-day moving average is still at about 1000. That's potentially 365,000 per year. That ain't no normal flu, I'd say. The pandemic certainly isn't over yet. No way can 1000 deaths per day be passed off as normal background.

The 7-day moving avg of new infections turned upward and has been increasing for about 3 weeks now. I bet people will get sick of that too. But so far, after about 3 weeks, daily deaths have not also started increasing. Let's hope that's an indication of reduced mortality and that vaccinations may be having an effect. Or it could be that those numbers will start trending up soon as well. It will be interesting to watch those two stats in the next few weeks.
Emotions are relevant when people are running out of money to put food on their table. Stopping economic activity has its consequences too. 

Chris Kern

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2181 on: November 20, 2021, 10:29:28 am »

The Worldometer USA numbers are interesting. Although daily deaths are trending down, the 7-day moving average is still at about 1000. That's potentially 365,000 per year. That ain't no normal flu, I'd say. The pandemic certainly isn't over yet. No way can 1000 deaths per day be passed off as normal background.

The deaths reportedly are concentrated among (1) those who are unvaccinated and (2) those with other, usually chronic, medical problems that put them at elevated risk.  From what I've been reading, that's also true of hospitalizations.  If you have been "fully vaccinated" and don't have another condition that would exacerbate the effects of the virus, it appears likely you will be able to ride out symptomatic illness on your own or even have no symptoms at all.

Having said that, people who dismiss the severity of symptomatic COVID-19 as "no worse than the 'flu" probably never had influenza.  It is a debilitating disease, even if you don't need to be admitted to a hospital.  Nothing like a cold or other minor respiratory infection.  I've had it twice, once in my early 20s and again in my early 40s.  Sickest I've ever been, although I didn't need to be hospitalized on either occasion and, fortunately, it did not trigger pneumonia (a common side-effect of influenza).  Full recovery from the second infection took two weeks.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2182 on: November 20, 2021, 10:49:54 am »

The deaths reportedly are concentrated among (1) those who are unvaccinated and (2) those with other, usually chronic, medical problems that put them at elevated risk.  From what I've been reading, that's also true of hospitalizations.  If you have been "fully vaccinated" and don't have another condition that would exacerbate the effects of the virus, it appears likely you will be able to ride out symptomatic illness on your own or even have no symptoms at all.

Having said that, people who dismiss the severity of symptomatic COVID-19 as "no worse than the 'flu" probably never had influenza.  It is a debilitating disease, even if you don't need to be admitted to a hospital.  Nothing like a cold or other minor respiratory infection.  I've had it twice, once in my early 20s and again in my early 40s.  Sickest I've ever been, although I didn't need to be hospitalized on either occasion and, fortunately, it did not trigger pneumonia (a common side-effect of influenza).  Full recovery from the second infection took two weeks.
One side benefit from all the masking and isolation is that the regular flu is almost non-existant, at least last winter.  Also, I haven't had a cold in almost two years for the same reason.  Neither has my wife.  These really are all social diseases. That didn't seem obvious before because the were so common. Now we can see just how they almost disappear when human interaction and proximity shrink. It's pretty amazing. 

chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2183 on: November 20, 2021, 08:19:00 pm »

One side benefit from all the masking and isolation is that the regular flu is almost non-existant, at least last winter.  Also, I haven't had a cold in almost two years for the same reason.  Neither has my wife.  These really are all social diseases. That didn't seem obvious before because the were so common. Now we can see just how they almost disappear when human interaction and proximity shrink. It's pretty amazing.

And if the Covidiots had any brains, we’d see COVID go away just like the flu did last year…but no, their rights are more important than their lives.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2184 on: November 20, 2021, 08:35:22 pm »

And if the Covidiots had any brains, we’d see COVID go away just like the flu did last year…but no, their rights are more important than their lives.
I wish drunk drivers wouldn't drive too. Should we lock up those not vaccinated in jail like they do in China?

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2185 on: November 20, 2021, 08:44:06 pm »

It's not only Americans that have problems with mandates.  It seems it's much more violent in Europe, more of a pot party in the USA.

EUROPE IN CRISIS Italian police clash with anti-lockdown protesters as violent street battles rage in Austria and Netherlands
About four thousand unmasked protesters were seen at the Circus Maximus in Rome, chanting "Freedom" and "No Green pass," while anti-vaxxers clashed with police at Piazza Duomo in Milan the Corriere reported.

Italian cops said that about sixty demonstrators were identified while added there were clashes during arrests, including a woman who bit a police officer.

It comes as the government is currently reviewing stricter measures for the unvaccinated as well as a push on the third dose amid Italy's high infection rates.

...Meanwhile, anti-lockdown protesters in Vienna gathered to protest after the far-right opposition Freedom Party called for demonstrations and vowed to fight new Covid restrictions.

...Protesters chanted "no to vaccination", "enough is enough" and "down with the fascist dictatorship" and waved Austrian flags as they stream into Heroes' Square.

...It didn't take long for the crowd - which swelled to about 35,000 people by mid-afternoon - to clash with police.

...Hours earlier, seven people were injured when Dutch police opened fire on anti-lockdown rioters who were setting streets ablaze.

Cops said they fired both "warning shots" and directly at protesters who were demonstrating against new lockdown measures in Rotterdam on Friday.

...Other videos showed burn-out police cars and rioters launching fireworks and rocks at cops.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4106515/dutch-police-shots-riots-covid-lockdown/

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2186 on: November 21, 2021, 12:18:47 am »

Yes, there are idiots in every country. They should round them up and send them to Mars. SpaceX estimates $200,000 for one way ticket. That could be cheaper than to keep them in ICU on a ventilator.
 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2187 on: November 21, 2021, 08:07:50 am »

For those interested in reactions to vaccines, this is fourth day after Moderna booster and shoulder soreness is gone. That's it. How did others make out?   

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2188 on: November 21, 2021, 08:56:58 am »

I got all my Pfizer shots long ago and never felt a thing.
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James Clark

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2189 on: November 21, 2021, 09:46:57 am »

Got my third Pfizer about two weeks ago on a Thursday afternoon.  Felt kind of run down by Friday evening, Saturday a little better, Sunday ok and Monday fine.  My wife got her third Pfizer about a month ago and was essentially unaffected.   (Much to my dismay, 5G connectivity inside our home remains unimproved, nor can I summon my silverware from across the room yet, so we'll be getting a fourth shot as soon as we can figure out how to make it happen.)
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2190 on: November 21, 2021, 10:02:08 am »

I wish drunk drivers wouldn't drive too. Should we lock up those not vaccinated in jail like they do in China?

Nope, just don't let them use non essential services and don't let them into non essential facilities. No pubs, no restaurants, no sports, no theatre etc...

Very much like if you want to smoke, don't come in here.
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Two23

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2191 on: November 21, 2021, 07:13:06 pm »

And if the Covidiots had any brains, we’d see COVID go away just like the flu did last year…but no, their rights are more important than their lives.


Unfortunately I don't see that happening.  Even if everyone in the U.S. and even if plus Europe and Canada were vaccinated there would still be a huge pool of people who aren't likely to ever be vaccinated.  Remember that delta came from India.  And, remember that flu cases (and also RSV, norovirus, etc.) cases were low last year when vaccines weren't even available.  The thinking is those diseases were low because people weren't gathering as much and washing hands.


Kent in SD
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Chris Kern

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2192 on: November 21, 2021, 07:36:20 pm »

Even if everyone in the U.S. and even if plus Europe and Canada were vaccinated there would still be a huge pool of people who aren't likely to ever be vaccinated.

No doubt that's true, but at least in parts of the world where vaccines are readily available, if almost everybody who can tolerate them becomes vaccinated, the infection case rate probably will become low enough that normal behavior—e.g., congregating indoors in public places without facemasks or physical distancing—will become a reasonable option for individuals who aren't at elevated risk of severe disease for other medical reasons.

The United States and Canadian governments should be doing everything they can to improve vaccine availability in México, the Caribbean, and Central America—and, after that, extending their efforts to South America and other continents.  The SARS-CoV-2 virus may never disappear, but the more we collectively reduce the reservoir of hosts, the better the likelihood of preventing an aggressive, vaccine-evading mutation from developing.  Not a perfect solution, perhaps, but a worthy goal.

marvpelkey

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2193 on: November 21, 2021, 07:57:53 pm »

Just returned from a driving trip to/from Vancouver BC/Denver Co and thought I would post a couple observations/comments.

Diligently prepared for crossing border S/B, ensuring all paperwork (proof of full vaccination etc) in order.

Arrived to the border on first day of S/B opening. Handed over Nexus cards to officer. He took a quick look, handed them back and wished us a great trip. No questions about our vaccination status. Contrast our return crossing where we not only went through the Covid first degree (which I applaud), but were given a take-home test kit for Health Canada ("randomly selected") even though we had to test positive prior to N/B crossing.

Drove through Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado. Progressing south/east, mask use and other protocols were strict in Washington, less so in Oregon and diminished the further distance travelled, to the point it was random chaos in the Denver area. There, a few places required masks/distancing, few others had protocol requirements displayed but enforcement was lax at best. And in most other places, it was as if Covid had never occurred.

The worst two places, one a children's event with hundreds of parents and children, another a Build a Bear store, both ignored all safety protocols, even though at both, employees were masked and protocols were listed. Build a Bear had a customer limit (35) and the usual 2m stand-on spots. Upon our arrival, they were almost double the limit and were so crammed, everyone was rubbing shoulders. Few customers at either location, wore a mask.

Of note, at out hotel, the staff were unmasked and, although obvious on placards about the premise, no protocols were enforced, some guests were masked. I asked one of the front desk staff about no masking. She, a 30-ish year old female, replied "It's our right not to be masked". When I asked about the rights of the as-yet vaccinated children and other vulnerable, she just looked at me with a stupid grin on her face. The conversation ended there.

Happened to flip through some channels at our hotel in Twin Falls Idaho. There were about a half dozen religious programs, most of which who were preaching anti-vax. On one, a Jewish Minister (?) and Doctor, obviously had a hate on for Anthony Faucci (sp?) and boldly stated the variants were a government induced method to control the citizens. Bizarre.

I simply do not understand how the unvaxxed/unmasked expect this issue to be solved solely by us, who vax/mask. Or maybe they don't.....

On a positive note, took my camera with me and was able to grab a couple decent shots enroute. And was able to have a super time with my 9 year old grand-daughter who I have not seen in two years (which was the sole purpose for the trip - she is my best buddy).

And, Americans are crazy drivers....but that is for another post.

Marv
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2194 on: November 21, 2021, 11:32:48 pm »

Just returned from a driving trip to/from Vancouver BC/Denver Co and thought I would post a couple observations/comments.

Diligently prepared for crossing border S/B, ensuring all paperwork (proof of full vaccination etc) in order.

Arrived to the border on first day of S/B opening. Handed over Nexus cards to officer. He took a quick look, handed them back and wished us a great trip. No questions about our vaccination status. Contrast our return crossing where we not only went through the Covid first degree (which I applaud), but were given a take-home test kit for Health Canada ("randomly selected") even though we had to test positive prior to N/B crossing.

Drove through Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado. Progressing south/east, mask use and other protocols were strict in Washington, less so in Oregon and diminished the further distance travelled, to the point it was random chaos in the Denver area. There, a few places required masks/distancing, few others had protocol requirements displayed but enforcement was lax at best. And in most other places, it was as if Covid had never occurred.

The worst two places, one a children's event with hundreds of parents and children, another a Build a Bear store, both ignored all safety protocols, even though at both, employees were masked and protocols were listed. Build a Bear had a customer limit (35) and the usual 2m stand-on spots. Upon our arrival, they were almost double the limit and were so crammed, everyone was rubbing shoulders. Few customers at either location, wore a mask.

Of note, at out hotel, the staff were unmasked and, although obvious on placards about the premise, no protocols were enforced, some guests were masked. I asked one of the front desk staff about no masking. She, a 30-ish year old female, replied "It's our right not to be masked". When I asked about the rights of the as-yet vaccinated children and other vulnerable, she just looked at me with a stupid grin on her face. The conversation ended there.

Happened to flip through some channels at our hotel in Twin Falls Idaho. There were about a half dozen religious programs, most of which who were preaching anti-vax. On one, a Jewish Minister (?) and Doctor, obviously had a hate on for Anthony Faucci (sp?) and boldly stated the variants were a government induced method to control the citizens. Bizarre.

I simply do not understand how the unvaxxed/unmasked expect this issue to be solved solely by us, who vax/mask. Or maybe they don't.....

On a positive note, took my camera with me and was able to grab a couple decent shots enroute. And was able to have a super time with my 9 year old grand-daughter who I have not seen in two years (which was the sole purpose for the trip - she is my best buddy).

And, Americans are crazy drivers....but that is for another post.

Marv
I'm surprised that Europeans seem so much more adamant against mandates and other rules than America.  Maybe we'd have more demonstrations in America if similar mandates were issued by governments.

Violent protests break out in Europe over vaccine mandates, lockdowns
Violent protests have broken out against COVID-19 vaccine mandates and lockdowns across Europe amid new tough rules to curb winter waves of the virus.

Demonstrators angry about the new measures gathered in Austria, Croatia, Italy, Northern Ireland, the French territory of Guadeloupe and the Netherlands to protest the moves.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/21/europes-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-spark-violent-protests/

Manoli

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2195 on: November 22, 2021, 09:12:21 pm »


Austrian Chancellor: 'You don’t only have rights, you have obligations'

Quote
The Chancellor of Austria, Alexander Schallenberg has told the BBC he is sorry that Austria has had to make Covid-19 vaccinations a legal requirement, but that the current low take-up rate is "too little, too late".
"Nobody wants the situation where you don’t get access to an intensive care unit bed because the beds are filled with people who did not get the vaccination and have Covid-19"

Austria is running at approximately 66% vaccination rate. Some states in the US are close to that , many substantially lower. Texas, barely 54%.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2196 on: November 22, 2021, 09:30:05 pm »

Austrian Chancellor: 'You don’t only have rights, you have obligations'

Austria is running at approximately 66% vaccination rate. Some states in the US are close to that , many substantially lower. Texas, barely 54%.

Are these Trump followers or what?  Why aren't they taking vaccinations?

Two23

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2197 on: November 23, 2021, 01:07:55 am »


Happened to flip through some channels at our hotel in Twin Falls Idaho. There were about a half dozen religious programs, most of which who were preaching anti-vax. On one, a Jewish Minister (?) and Doctor, obviously had a hate on for Anthony Faucci (sp?) and boldly stated the variants were a government induced method to control the citizens. Bizarre.

I simply do not understand how the unvaxxed/unmasked expect this issue to be solved solely by us, who vax/mask. Or maybe they don't.....




Wife and I drove from South Dakota to Washington state in August, and back (of course.)  We had planned to spend three days in Idaho but the place was just nuts.  The hospitals were full and having to send people far away.   My wife, a hospital pharmacist, pointed out that if we had a car accident or I fell off a cliff and had to go to the ER there was serious question what the quality of care would be.  So, we left after one day and continued west.  We also didn't want to end up away from home with a breakthrough infection and be stuck for 10 days.

As for the making sense of the militantly unvaxxed, I've come to see them as members of a cult.  Doing that seems to make it more understandable.  They seem to be the same sort of people who in the previous decade believed 911 (Twin Towers) was an "inside" job.  (The "Truthers.")  Same sort of people actively seeking out conspiracies to believe no matter how irrational it may be.


Kent in SD
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2198 on: November 23, 2021, 09:50:11 am »


Wife and I drove from South Dakota to Washington state in August, and back (of course.)  We had planned to spend three days in Idaho but the place was just nuts.  The hospitals were full and having to send people far away.   My wife, a hospital pharmacist, pointed out that if we had a car accident or I fell off a cliff and had to go to the ER there was serious question what the quality of care would be.  So, we left after one day and continued west.  We also didn't want to end up away from home with a breakthrough infection and be stuck for 10 days.

As for the making sense of the militantly unvaxxed, I've come to see them as members of a cult.  Doing that seems to make it more understandable.  They seem to be the same sort of people who in the previous decade believed 911 (Twin Towers) was an "inside" job.  (The "Truthers.")  Same sort of people actively seeking out conspiracies to believe no matter how irrational it may be.


Kent in SD
Why do many Europeans have objections to taking the vax like some Americans?  Are they a cult too? In any case, I still think that the long-lasting effects will be economic not health. 

As Virus Cases Rise in Europe, an Economic Toll Returns
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/business/economy/europe-covid-economy.html#commentsContainer
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 09:57:08 am by Alan Klein »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2199 on: November 23, 2021, 09:55:31 am »

Why is Africa doing so well with COvid where very few people are vaccinated?  One theory is that most people spend a lot of time outdoors. Others say it's the huge number of naturally-resistant young people making up their populations.  Maybe malaria infections have toughened the people.  It's fascinating and more research should be done. 

Scientists mystified, wary, as Africa avoids COVID disaster
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/scientists-mystified-wary-africa-avoids-covid-disaster-81271647
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