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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 56534 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2060 on: October 12, 2021, 03:22:53 pm »

"Golden", "regardless of anything else"? I'm sorry, but this statement is nonsense.

There are multiple variants of COVID-19 circulating among vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Vaccine effectiveness, while impressive, does not provide a barrier to contact with the virus or infection; it is a boost to defense against the virus and from infectious disease. How much protection is provided by that boost in immune system defense will vary greatly depending on the individual, the amount of virus with which they have contact, and the variant of the virus.

Of course, it does matter. 1) Unvaccinated individuals have a far greater likelihood of becoming infected and subsequently contagious. 2) The more unvaccinated people with which you are in close enough proximity to be subject to contact with airborne viral spread, the more likelihood there is for infection and continuation of the chain of viral spread. If you don't understand why that is so, refer back to 1).

You are as golden as you would be against any other disease after you are vaccinated, especially since these vaccines are 96% effective at preventing severe cases.  That is better than any other vaccine BTW. 

If you have a condition that causes you to live you life in fear of the flu, and are still living in fear of C-19 after being vaccinated, of course your actions are justified.  But other then this, you have lost your sanity if you insist on not returning to normal life after being vaccinated. 

Insofar as breakthrough cases, the severity of those cases are greatly decreased by the vaccine (not to mention each new variant is decreasing in severity, as always happens, albeit becoming easier to spread).  This is supported by the fact that 99% of those currently being hospitalized are not vaccinated.  You have no more to worry about this than you do with the flu.  Likewise, we, as the public, have no reason to be concerned with these mild cases since they are of no consequence to greater society, just like the average cold is of no consequence.  The only cases that matter are those that are severe enough to land people in the hospital, and we a great way to reducing those, the vaccines. 

All this shows, it truly does not matter how many people you are with after being vaccinated, or at least no more then with any other disease, which the vast majority never did worry about in the past.  I received the MMR vaccine, and got a 2nd booster a few years ago.  If I walked into a stadium filled with neck-bloated people all suffering from mumps, I would not be concerned at all for myself.  You should have the same reaction here; if not, you are being illogical. 

Furthermore, the implications that we need to restrict large gatherings because the "likelihood there is for infection and continuation of the chain of viral spread" is belied by the fact that C-19 is never going away.  No matter what we do, this is now with us forever.  We are not getting rid of it, that is especially the case for poor countries without the ability for mass vaccinations. 

It is here.  It is going to do what it does regardless of our actions.  The continued spread, even with all the lockdowns, proved this.  Sometimes you just need to except there is nothing you can do.  Just like a farmer can't stop it from hailing the day before harvest, we can't stop C-19 from doing what it does.  Get vaccinated and then get on with your life. 
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 03:30:49 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2061 on: October 12, 2021, 03:23:39 pm »

Oh my! I guess you'll need to stock up on mops to keep up with their drooling.

My expectation is that they will engage in a variety of activities, but will exercise the kind of common sense that life during a pandemic requires.

You drool?  That's not something I would think you want to so freely admit to. 
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2062 on: October 12, 2021, 04:41:35 pm »

You are as golden as you would be against any other disease after you are vaccinated, especially since these vaccines are 96% effective at preventing severe cases.

I'm sorry to say that your presumed knowledge regarding vaccines, COVID-19, and medical science in general underwhelms me. There are still a number of unknowns regarding the long-term effectiveness of the current COVID vaccines, not the least of which is how effectiveness may diminish over time: for each of the various vaccines; for various individuals; and against each of the variants. This will require time, data collection, and analysis.

Booster shots are now being given for some individuals who received the Pfizer vaccine as you may have noticed. Masks are also still recommended for vaccinated people when indoors in public gathering places. These additional measures and precautions, for people already vaccinated, are not due to public health officials or people that follow their advice being "mentally gone" or some perceived unreasonable panic.

Viruses and other contagious diseases all have their own characteristics. COVID-19 is not seasonal flu. Seasonal flu is not pneumonia. Pneumonia is not the common cold.

COVID-19 is a new and pandemic disease. Your continued comparisons of it to the flu or "any other disease" indicates a lack of comprehension of that basic fact among other things.

That is better than any other vaccine BTW.

No, it isn't.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 12:52:42 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2063 on: October 12, 2021, 05:20:58 pm »

If you have a condition that causes you to live you life in fear of the flu, and are still living in fear of C-19 after being vaccinated, of course your actions are justified.  But other then [than] this, you have lost your sanity if you insist on not returning to normal life after being vaccinated. 

Following reasonable and common sense public health precautions during a pandemic caused by a new and evolving disease does not equate to loss of sanity.

each new variant is decreasing in severity, as always happens

Could you point to which resource for medical knowledge or part of your anatomy from which this was pulled? Never mind, people might give you strange looks pointing like that.

This is supported by the fact that 99% of those currently being hospitalized are not vaccinated.

It is undeniably true that vaccination greatly reduces the chance of hospitalization if infected, which makes for a very strong case to get vaccinated! It is not a "fact" "that 99% of those currently being hospitalized are not vaccinated". There was one report from Cleveland Clinic back in May with a 99% unvaccinated hospitalization ratio. Otherwise, vaccinated to unvaccinated ratios for hospitalization have varied depending on region and the specific date range being reported. Putting accurate data together on vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalization ratios is difficult as reporting of data varies from state to state, if they report that type of data at all.

CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) September 17, 2021 - COVID-19 Hospitalization Cases - Percentage Fully Vaccinated for All Ages in 13 U.S. Jurisdictions: April 4–June 19 = 7% / June 20–July 17 = 14%

ScienceNews report August 31, 2021: "The weekly rate, on the other hand, is a bit like the speedometer on a car — providing a glimpse of what’s happening week by week as the coronavirus spreads. Its message is also clear: The risk of a vaccinated person becoming hospitalized remains low at any given time, while the risk for unvaccinated people can fluctuate, probably as a result of community transmission."

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states

That reminds me, I'm still curious as to how you came to the false conclusions which misrepresented NYC's vaccination demographic statistics that you posted. Ever going to tell us whether it was your own confusion and misrepresentation or something you acquired from another source?

You have no more to worry about this than you do with the flu.  Likewise, we, as the public, have no reason to be concerned with these mild cases since they are of no consequence to greater society, just like the average cold is of no consequence.

Not this cold and flu comparison crap again. Sigh...

The only cases that matter are those that are severe enough to land people in the hospital, and we a great way to reducing those, the vaccines.

No, hospitalizations aren't the only cases that matter. Infected individuals that are not hospitalized can have lifelong physical damage and disability as a result of the disease. Those that are infected and walking around are the ones that primarily enable the spread and continuing evolution of the disease.

Vaccines do provide a high degree of protection for those that take them. The cases of infection among people who are not hospitalized, but moving about and interacting with people, are now the root cause of hospital overload at various times in various places and those are mostly people who are unvaccinated. As a side note, an unfortunate number of the unvaccinated "freedom fighters" are also anti-mask, anti-restriction, anti-public health, anti-government zealots like the activists in Idaho. Thanks Ammon Bundy!

https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/Sept. 16, 2021 - Idaho expands Crisis Standards of Care statewide due to surge in COVID-19 patients requiring hospitalization
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 05:56:36 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2064 on: October 12, 2021, 06:10:38 pm »

All this shows, it truly does not matter how many people you are with after being vaccinated, or at least no more then with any other disease, which the vast majority never did worry about in the past.  I received the MMR vaccine, and got a 2nd booster a few years ago.  If I walked into a stadium filled with neck-bloated people all suffering from mumps, I would not be concerned at all for myself.  You should have the same reaction here; if not, you are being illogical. 

Believing that you are a more reliable source or judge of information regarding infectious disease than public health officials would be the logical fallacy. The continuous conflating of one type of infectious disease with another would be another. Every infectious disease is unique and therefore should logically be addressed according to the specific nature and impact of a given disease such as transmissibility, severity, spread, available treatments, vaccination rate and effectiveness, available medical resources, etc.

"The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 32-95%) effective when a person gets two doses...

Before the U.S. mumps vaccination program started in 1967, mumps was a universal disease of childhood. Since the pre-vaccine era, there has been a more than 99% decrease in mumps cases in the United States. Mumps outbreaks can still occur in highly vaccinated U.S. communities, particularly in settings where people have close, prolonged contact, such as universities and close-knit communities. However, high vaccination coverage helps to limit the size, duration, and spread of mumps outbreaks. In the event of an outbreak, public health authorities may recommend that people at increased risk for mumps get a third dose of MMR or MMRV vaccine to improve their protection against the disease."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mumps/index.html
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 06:32:58 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2065 on: October 12, 2021, 09:40:09 pm »

Furthermore, the implications that we need to restrict large gatherings because the "likelihood there is for infection and continuation of the chain of viral spread" is belied...

You can draw any implications you like. The context of my statement that you're quoting was in response to your assertion: "Therefore it does not matter how many people you are with or if they are vaccinated."

My reply was: "Of course, it does matter. 1) Unvaccinated individuals have a far greater likelihood of becoming infected and subsequently contagious. 2) The more unvaccinated people with which you are in close enough proximity to be subject to contact with airborne viral spread, the more likelihood there is for infection and continuation of the chain of viral spread. If you don't understand why that is so, refer back to 1).

The number of people of unknown vaccination status with whom you interact and under what circumstances matters. If you don't understand why that is so, refer to 1) and 2) above."


I have no reason to change those statements.

by the fact that C-19 is never going away.  No matter what we do, this is now with us forever.

That may well be true. Then again, that's likely what many people believed, once upon a time, regarding polio and small pox. Predicting the future of COVID-19 (also known as SARS-CoV-2) and other SARS viruses past, present, and future "no matter what we do", I will leave to you. Some viruses science and medical professionals have been able to tame with the cooperation of governments and citizens. Some are still causing disease.

With some luck, the impact will become minimal over time as more people are vaccinated. If we're not so lucky, the idiots, the ignorant, and the misinformed in society will continue to facilitate its continued spread and potential evolution [Click The Link for an explanation, in less than a minute, of why that's important] into something even worse than what we have right now. As long as people lacking common sense refuse to be vaccinated, the future does not look promising regarding the impact of COVID-19 or any other potential pandemics that may come along in the future.

The fact that matters now is that it's here now and still causing deaths at a significant rate and still causing hospital capacities and medical providers to be overwhelmed in various locations. Those are the current facts that require our attention and efforts.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 05:48:48 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2066 on: October 12, 2021, 10:46:45 pm »

The continued spread, even with all the lockdowns, proved this.

I was never locked down. Were you? There were restrictions which varied among states and communities; but even with restrictions, people still continued to shop in stores, travel, work, and move about. Some communities ignored state restrictions, where they existed, as did some businesses and individuals. Do you think that may have contributed to the continued spread somewhat? Where was anyone locked down? What is it you think was proved again?

Sometimes you just need to except [accept] there is nothing you can do.

Why? That seems like a rather defeatist attitude. Are you content with passivity, rather than trying to solve problems or at least work toward solutions while pursuing the best current course of action?

Victories, regardless of the type of war, are usually the result of defensive and offensive actions over an extended period of time. This is just as true of wars against disease, ignorance, intolerance, and other scourges of humankind as it is wars between nations and people.

Just like a farmer can't stop it from hailing the day before harvest, we can't stop C-19 from doing what it does.

A farmer can follow the weather forecasts and get some protection thru crop insurance. During a pandemic, people can follow public health advice and get some protection thru vaccination. Doing these things can aid not only in protecting themselves, but others as well. And while you cannot stop hail, you have a good probability to "stop C-19 from doing what it does" thru vaccination.

Get vaccinated and then get on with your life.

If more people had common sense and were vaccinated it would help everyone to get on with life! As I've said before, the best alternative to vaccine mandates is common sense. When that's in short supply, what is the alternative? Well.. is your answer "Sometimes you just need to [accept] there is nothing you can do"?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 04:57:30 am by TechTalk »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2067 on: October 13, 2021, 08:41:17 am »

I was never locked down. Were you? There were restrictions which varied among states and communities; but even with restrictions, people still continued to shop in stores, travel, work, and move about. Some communities ignored state restrictions, where they existed, as did some businesses and individuals. Do you think that may have contributed to the continued spread somewhat? Where was anyone locked down? What is it you think was proved again?

Why? That seems like a rather defeatist attitude. Are you content with passivity, rather than trying to solve problems or at least work toward solutions while pursuing the best current course of action?

Victories, regardless of the type of war, are usually the result of defensive and offensive actions over an extended period of time. This is just as true of wars against disease, ignorance, intolerance, and other scourges of humankind as it is wars between nations and people.

A farmer can follow the weather forecasts and get some protection thru crop insurance. During a pandemic, people can follow public health advice and get some protection thru vaccination. Doing these things can aid not only in protecting themselves, but others as well. And while you cannot stop hail, you have a good probability to "stop C-19 from doing what it does" thru vaccination.

If more people had common sense and were vaccinated it would help everyone to get on with life! As I've said before, the best alternative to vaccine mandates is common sense. When that's in short supply, what is the alternative? Well.. is your answer "Sometimes you just need to [accept] there is nothing you can do"?
The economic impact is not over.  You're getting ahead of yourself.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2068 on: October 13, 2021, 09:16:47 am »

The economic impact is not over.  You're getting ahead of yourself.

Where did anyone say that the economic impact is over? You're not getting ahead of anyone, you're just doing the same old thing of responding to something that wasn't any part of the post to which you pretend to reply. What's the point of that?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2069 on: October 13, 2021, 09:51:48 am »

Where did anyone say that the economic impact is over? You're not getting ahead of anyone, you're just doing the same old thing of responding to something that wasn't any part of the post to which you pretend to reply. What's the point of that?
You only talk about the health issue as if there's no economic issue.

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2070 on: October 13, 2021, 10:02:19 am »

Following reasonable and common sense public health precautions during a pandemic caused by a new and evolving disease does not equate to loss of sanity.



In the beginning, sure.  Now though, with all we know, it is insanity or at the very least a complete lack of even trying to understand the stats and how it effects you. 

BTW, why no "Allspice?" 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2071 on: October 13, 2021, 01:29:28 pm »

Believing that you are a more reliable source or judge of information regarding infectious disease than public health officials would be the logical fallacy. The continuous conflating of one type of infectious disease with another would be another. Every infectious disease is unique and therefore should logically be addressed according to the specific nature and impact of a given disease such as transmissibility, severity, spread, available treatments, vaccination rate and effectiveness, available medical resources, etc.

"The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 32-95%) effective when a person gets two doses...

Before the U.S. mumps vaccination program started in 1967, mumps was a universal disease of childhood. Since the pre-vaccine era, there has been a more than 99% decrease in mumps cases in the United States. Mumps outbreaks can still occur in highly vaccinated U.S. communities, particularly in settings where people have close, prolonged contact, such as universities and close-knit communities. However, high vaccination coverage helps to limit the size, duration, and spread of mumps outbreaks. In the event of an outbreak, public health authorities may recommend that people at increased risk for mumps get a third dose of MMR or MMRV vaccine to improve their protection against the disease."

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mumps/index.html

You mean politicians?  LOL. 

It really is amazing how so many people on the left, yourself included, keep on trusting these public experts after they have been wrong so many times and openly lied to us over the last year.  I get my information from people who actually know what they are doing and work in the private sector at places like Johns Hopkins and others. 

But you, and all of the self appointed elites, are in the loosing crowd at this point.  To show just how large the disconnect is, see below.  FYI, that's the lowest audience score ever. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2072 on: October 13, 2021, 01:44:22 pm »

The economic impact is not over.  You're getting ahead of yourself.

And about to get a lot worse. 

Biden, with this vaccine mandate, is turning it from a health issue into a liberty issue whether he knows it or not.  So many people are going to thumb their noise at it and quit just to prove their liberty bono fides.  Sure, it's a rash decision, but that is what is going to happen. 

And those that don't will just get a counterfeit vaccine cards.  It would not be that hard.  All you need is a good scanner to scan a legit card, a little bit of PhotoShop skill (to edit out what was already written), a decent printer, and (I would guess) some 90 pound cold pressed card stock with a 96% brightness.  30 minutes of work that would require a 15X loupe to figure out if it was fake.  Even so, I doubt most would know the difference between a dot matrix (on a home printer) vs a line pattern (from a Heidelberg). 

And even so, I would be willing to bet, most companies will just ask to see a pic on your phone of it and not even bother to make sure your name is the one on it, like what I recently experienced in New Orleans. 

But all of this is just going to continue to slow the economy and send us into an actual recession.  Like I said in another threads, the silver lining is that Biden's incompetence may very well give the republicans the presidency, the house and a 60+ senate in 2025. 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2073 on: October 13, 2021, 02:28:13 pm »

Many photographers, especially professionals, have a policy of upgrading their software or OS with the next decimal point upgrade, i.e., not immediately with the new 1.0 or X.0 version. They want to make sure that everything they need will function properly with the new upgrade and especially that inevitable bugs and kinks will be corrected. Their livelihood often depends on that.

There are others who eagerly await anything new and immediately jump to upgrade. Some even impatiently download beta versions, risk be damned.

To each his own.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2074 on: October 13, 2021, 04:14:42 pm »

You only talk about the health issue as if there's no economic issue.

My posts were all direct responses to statements from Joe. You ignore that fact and pretend that you're posting a reply to one of my posts. Why? In order to resurrect one of your oft repeated, but limited in scope, zombie themes in an effort to bait-and-switch to one of your circular merry-go-round arguments on ground that has been covered repeatedly.

It's not a game that interests me.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2075 on: October 13, 2021, 04:21:09 pm »

An interesting 45-minute "Evening With Dr. Anthony Fauci" was held at the LBJ Library on October 6th. It covers a wide range of topics.

Please join us for a conversation with Dr. Anthony Fauci, chief medical advisor to the President and the nation’s leading voice on the COVID-19 pandemic. Mark Updegrove, President and CEO of the LBJ Foundation, will moderate the discussion.

About the speaker: Anthony S. Fauci, M.D. is director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) at the U.S. National Institutes of Health, where he oversees an extensive research portfolio focused on infectious and immune-mediated diseases. As the long-time chief of the NIAID Laboratory of Immunoregulation, Dr. Fauci has made many seminal contributions in basic and clinical research and is one of the world’s most-cited biomedical scientists.

He was one of the principal architects of the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved millions of lives throughout the developing world, and continues to be our country’s leading voice on combating the ongoing threat of COVID-19.


https://www.youtube.com/An Evening With Dr. Anthony Fauci
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2076 on: October 13, 2021, 10:22:42 pm »

You mean politicians?  LOL. 

No, I mean the people that have spent their entire adult lives in the study and practice of medicine with specialties and subspecialties like epidemiology, immunology, virology, and public health and who are dedicated to improving the health and lives of the general public.

This reminds me, I suspect that a number of people may not be aware that there are eight uniformed services in the United States. They consist of the United States: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Space Force, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Officer Corps (NOAA Corps), and Public Health Service Commissioned Corps (PHSCC).

USPHS Commissioned Corps history has roots which trace back to 1798 and the establishment of the first Marine Hospitals. Their uniforms are modeled after Navy uniforms and they are commissioned as officers ranging from ensign to admiral. The Surgeon General of the United States is the operational head of the service and holds the rank of vice-admiral.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 10:25:53 pm by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2077 on: October 13, 2021, 10:24:16 pm »

It really is amazing how so many people on the left...

Yeah, heard it all before.

I get my information from people who actually know what they are doing and work in the private sector at places like Johns Hopkins and others. 

That will probably come as a surprise to "Johns Hopkins and others". I know it does to me!

But you, and all of the self appointed elites, are in the loosing [losing] crowd at this point.

OK. You're a big winner. Congratulations to you!
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2078 on: October 14, 2021, 06:31:09 pm »

Many photographers, especially professionals, have a policy of upgrading their software or OS with the next decimal point upgrade, i.e., not immediately with the new 1.0 or X.0 version. They want to make sure that everything they need will function properly with the new upgrade and especially that inevitable bugs and kinks will be corrected. Their livelihood often depends on that.

There are others who eagerly await anything new and immediately jump to upgrade. Some even impatiently download beta versions, risk be damned.

To each his own.

Thanks for posting this. I am curious, however. What is the fatality rate for upgrading your operating system or software? Are upgrades highly contagious? Can your upgrades be transmitted to others possibly resulting in their death or lifelong organ damage?

Just want to find out before my next software or operating system upgrade is due. Thanks for the insight.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2079 on: October 14, 2021, 07:00:02 pm »

Thanks for posting this. I am curious, however. What is the fatality rate for upgrading your operating system or software? Are upgrades highly contagious? Can your upgrades be transmitted to others possibly resulting in their death or lifelong organ damage?

Just want to find out before my next software or operating system upgrade is due. Thanks for the insight.

The parallel is between new software and new vaccines, not between software and the virus.
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